The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 650 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19471 of 19722 Old 12-12-2017, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTheYellowCable View Post
A local shop has agreed to give it a try, and this info might help. The tech said it would help to have a schematic or wiring diagram (not just a user manual). Anyone have one of those for the DTVPal or CM-7000PAL?
No schematic has ever surfaced for these. Be sure to tell the tech to use only high quality low ESR capacitors rated at 105°C. I like Panasonic brand myself. The Panasonic caps have outlived the originals I replaced in my own DTVPal by a couple of years now.
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post #19472 of 19722 Old 12-12-2017, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
No schematic has ever surfaced for these. Be sure to tell the tech to use only high quality low ESR capacitors rated at 105°C. I like Panasonic brand myself. The Panasonic caps have outlived the originals I replaced in my own DTVPal by a couple of years now.
I'll definitely pass that along, and I'll also report back with any updates. Thank you!
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post #19473 of 19722 Old 12-12-2017, 03:55 PM
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Lost picture but not sound

The weirdest thing just happened . . . I was watching a recording on an old CRT and the picture blanked. Sound was fine. Went to broadcast and same thing. Did a soft reboot and picture came back. I did have to press the Pal button for a longer than usual time for the reboot to kick in. Thoughts? This is not the Pal with the bad HDD (drive was just delivered today and will be replaced on Friday).
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post #19474 of 19722 Old 12-12-2017, 11:05 PM
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it depend how long the DVR run without reboot ... I would recommend do that once in a week at least if you habits include often manipulations by remote buttons and a lot of scheduled recordings
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post #19475 of 19722 Old 12-12-2017, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTheYellowCable View Post
The tech said it would help to have a schematic or wiring diagram (not just a user manual). Anyone have one of those for the DTVPal or CM-7000PAL?
well, I would estimate the job (recover its schematics) as $10k/m of skilled EE.
May be those people don't cary, but by my long experience in the industry (smartphones, eBooks, etc) telling me: PCB layout should be on your table when you do troubleshooting more obvious things than bad capacitors ...

Last edited by P Smith; 12-12-2017 at 11:12 PM.
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post #19476 of 19722 Old 12-15-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelLW View Post
When my cm7000pal had a problem before, I would disconnect the internal hard drive, and it would always boot back up. This time it has a different problem. When I try to turn it on, the power light blinks once and turns back off. I've repaired electronics all my life (I'm no expert by any means) so I removed the boards and checked all the normal parts and only found 2 caps with low ESR which I replaced. No change.
I hope you mean you replaced caps with high ESR

But anyway, it could be the power supply board, I suppose; but it could be the main board too. Do you have another Pal you could try swapping boards with?
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post #19477 of 19722 Old 12-15-2017, 06:50 PM
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High ESR of course. They were on the main board. Don't have a second unit. I suspect a shorted surface mount IC because of the low resistance I measured across the output of one of the voltage circuits on the main board. I will probably attempt repair again.
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post #19478 of 19722 Old 01-02-2018, 06:29 AM
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I bought a DTVPal off eBay that needs repair. Naturally, C34 and C242 are bulging and need replacement. Anyone know the values of these off-hand?

Edit: Never mind; I found them:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Conlon View Post
No luck with C242 (820uF 6.3Volt). C34 (2200 uF 10V) looks ok. I suppose I might as well try it before I buy a ChannelMaster DVR+.
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post #19479 of 19722 Old 01-02-2018, 10:06 AM
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I've always replaced those capacitors with one voltage rating higher than stock and used Panasonic low ESR 105°C caps. Physically these are a little larger which should help dissipate the internal heat that slowly cooks the stock caps dry. Haven't had to re-replace any yet.

Just now noticed my main DTVPal found the correct time too! Last week it was running almost 2 min fast, and I thought it had lost time calculation. But instead of doing the double reset, I just left it alone. Today it's back on time running only 4 seconds slow. That's within tolerance as far as I'm concerned.
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post #19480 of 19722 Old 01-02-2018, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
I've always replaced those capacitors with one voltage rating higher than stock and used Panasonic low ESR 105°C caps. Physically these are a little larger which should help dissipate the internal heat that slowly cooks the stock caps dry. Haven't had to re-replace any yet.
I wouldn't bet on it - overheating and drying is a result of high ESR [materials] and bad electrolyte [chemistry] - you can't compensate it by raising voltage;
just sticking to good quality companies, buying capacitors with same C and V and low ESR and 105°C type will be enough to expect it's longevity.
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post #19481 of 19722 Old 01-02-2018, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
I wouldn't bet on it .
Your opinion. I do not share it.

It costs pennies to upgrade one rating higher.

And why would Samsung supply capacitors with a higher voltage rating in a kit to repair certain SMPS with high failure they built? Exactly for that heat dissipation reason. I know this from hands-on experience with high fail capacitors in those supplies.
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post #19482 of 19722 Old 01-02-2018, 10:54 AM
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sure, but I did provide physical principles to make proper decision... adding to that: getting bigger capacitor sometimes in not possible at all as if will not fit , as nearby components will not allow to insert it.
Samsung's kit based on some other real conditions what is not necessary applicable to TR-50. It's not correct reference.
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post #19483 of 19722 Old 01-02-2018, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
sure, but I did provide physical principles to make proper decision... adding to that: getting bigger capacitor sometimes in not possible at all as if will not fit , as nearby components will not allow to insert it.
Samsung's kit based on some other real conditions what is not necessary applicable to TR-50. It's not correct reference.
Used that as an example of a device with a high fail power supply like these 'Pals. Maybe not necessarily applies but symptoms the same; excessively noisy high THD SMPS design and output capacitors having to pass high ripple currents to ground. Eventually the ESR goes up and the internal heat goes up and they pop their tops or the bottom seal and fail. Also there's plenty of room inside the 'Pal. Not sure what you are talking about, "not possible at all". I've done several, so please stay on topic, we're talking about replacing capacitors in the DTVPal where there is plenty of room to place these slightly larger parts.
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post #19484 of 19722 Old 01-02-2018, 11:19 AM
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give me time slack, I'll post pictures instead of words' exchange;
I'm well aware of DC-DC buck regulators and would be easy for me get measures noise and ripples by using my digital scope; I prefer to continue the discussion based on real facts and the TR-50's real measures instead of getting pointing to other unknown to us solutions like mentioned Samsung's kit ...
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post #19485 of 19722 Old 01-02-2018, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Your opinion. I do not share it.

It costs pennies to upgrade one rating higher.

And why would Samsung supply capacitors with a higher voltage rating in a kit to repair certain SMPS with high failure they built? Exactly for that heat dissipation reason. I know this from hands-on experience with high fail capacitors in those supplies.
the quote is unfair - if you would get whole post you wouldn't need to fight with obvious things
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post #19486 of 19722 Old 01-02-2018, 12:36 PM
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I replaced capacitors back in summer of 2016, and the unit is still working fine. Yay That said, I decided to pre-order the stream+ from channel master for $99...as I think it could be nice to have a backup or use the dvr on another tv in the house. Anybody else visit the thread for the Stream+ and decide to order one?

Anyway, still very happy with the PAL. I should have upgraded to a bigger drive when I had the unit open, but I didn't spend time hunting down an economical drive. Oh well.
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post #19487 of 19722 Old 01-02-2018, 07:34 PM
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OK I went to Fry's after dinner. Couldn't find a single 820 microfarad capacitor! But I did pick up a couple of 2200 ones (always nice to have a spare). The only ones they had were rated 25V, 105°C, and were $2 each. They weren't Panasonic low-ESR ones but they fit perfectly.

Replacing C34 has the DVR+ at least limping along now. It's not freezing and locking up like before. But I'm seeing quite a few glitches that look like a bad signal (but aren't), so I'm afraid C242 is going to need replacing too, as soon as I can get a-hold of an 820.

Also replaced the 250GB drive with a 750GB Seagate Barracuda drive. Always nice to have lots of room for recordings.

Last edited by JHBrandt; 01-06-2018 at 10:24 AM.
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post #19488 of 19722 Old 01-03-2018, 01:42 AM
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no worry for replacement 830 mF to 2200, if it a) fit b) have same ratings, c) voltage no less and d) low ESR

such capacitor's capacitance calculated by max ripples/noise level of the rail and minimal cost and dimensions
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post #19489 of 19722 Old 01-06-2018, 10:26 AM
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BTW, the HDD that came with the Pal had a few recordings already on it: two Time-Life infomercials and one episode of Judge Joe Brown. It's amazing what people will record!
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post #19490 of 19722 Old 02-07-2018, 09:33 AM
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@ed_in_tx, @P Smith, the repair worked! The local shop managed to get this DTVPal working like new again. No more freezes! I'm not sure exactly which capacitors needed replacement, but regardless, it worked. Thank you both again for the advice!
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post #19491 of 19722 Old 02-07-2018, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTheYellowCable View Post
@ed_in_tx, @P Smith, the repair worked! The local shop managed to get this DTVPal working like new again. No more freezes! I'm not sure exactly which capacitors needed replacement, but regardless, it worked. Thank you both again for the advice!
Just curious, could you share how much such a repair cost?

.
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post #19492 of 19722 Old 02-07-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post
Just curious, could you share how much such a repair cost?

.
It became a bit of a tricky situation since there was some trouble getting the right parts around the holidays, meeting the estimated repair time or the updated repair time, and communicating all costs in the meantime. Nice folks, nice place, I'd go back to them, but for this job it was just a series of unfortunate events. Originally the total was going to be ~$100, but it ended up far less.
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post #19493 of 19722 Old 02-07-2018, 10:23 PM
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My estimation would be $50 plus s/h cost
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post #19494 of 19722 Old 02-08-2018, 06:33 AM
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My estimation would be $50 plus s/h cost
Yep, it was much closer to that. The initial estimate was a point of contention. Like putting $1,500 into a $500 car. But we worked it out. I'm just glad to have it working again.
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post #19495 of 19722 Old 02-08-2018, 09:16 AM
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Some things are priceless . . .
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post #19496 of 19722 Old 02-09-2018, 12:35 PM
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Semi annual reminder....

Sunday the 11th is DST-1 check your recording schedules carefully.

On a side note, I never got around to buying to buying a DVR+. I was waiting until they got all the bugs out of it! And now I'm not sure it that's good or bad. I guess it depends on how long my two DTVPals last and what replaces the DVR+.
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post #19497 of 19722 Old 02-09-2018, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post
Semi annual reminder....

Sunday the 11th is DST-1 check your recording schedules carefully.

On a side note, I never got around to buying to buying a DVR+. I was waiting until they got all the bugs out of it! And now I'm not sure it that's good or bad. I guess it depends on how long my two DTVPals last and what replaces the DVR+.
Aren't you a month early? :-)
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post #19498 of 19722 Old 02-09-2018, 01:22 PM
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Aren't you a month early? :-)
DST-1=One month before DST begins, a day when DTVPal recordings MAY BE one hour off. Then followed my a month of recording schedule uncertainty.
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post #19499 of 19722 Old 02-09-2018, 06:56 PM
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I never got around to buying to buying a DVR+. I was waiting until they got all the bugs out of it! And now I'm not sure it that's good or bad. I guess it depends on how long my two DTVPals last and what replaces the DVR+.
Channel Master's replacement will be the Stream+, an Android TV box. None have been shipped yet though. There's a thread about it here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdt...eculation.html

IMO nobody ever gets all the bugs out of anything anymore, so if you wait for all the bugs to be fixed you'll never buy anything. Instead, I'd ask if it works well enough to be worth what it costs.

Of course that's a judgement call, so it will differ from one person to another. For me, the DVR+ crossed that threshold at firmware version 108R - although I must admit it took me months to get used to the DVR+ after being a long-time DTVPal user. So if you buy something new, it's probably best to do so while your DTVPal is still working, so you can gradually ease yourself into using the new box.
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post #19500 of 19722 Old 02-10-2018, 07:36 AM
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Aren't you a month early? :-)
So are the stations: http://home.earthlink.net/~schultdw/...ata/index.html With six already wrong, I shudder to think what will happen tomorrow.
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