The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 654 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 311Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #19591 of 19722 Old 11-28-2018, 12:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
trp2525's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 655
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 64
2 Brand-New/Factory-Sealed DTVPal DVRs in AVS Forum Classifieds

FYI as a followup to my post #19570 (dated 08-24-2018) above in this thread, I have posted for sale 2 brand-new Dish DTVPal DVRs in the AVS Forum Classifieds. These 2 units are in factory-sealed boxes and have never been used.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/210-v...l#post57177568
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DTVPal DVR Box.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	8.7 KB
ID:	2488418  
JHBrandt likes this.
trp2525 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19592 of 19722 Old 12-01-2018, 07:57 AM
Member
 
falz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Hi there- Many moons ago I purchased two DTVPal DVRs for an in-law. A year or so they had issues, I replaced the commonly known capacitors and they were good for a while.

They both began giving her issues as of a few weeks ago- they appear to boot, immediately go to sleep mode and there remote won't wake it up. I got them both in-hand and they seem to do this or display no video at all. I looked at the troubleshooting guide (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hd...c.html#user_A6) and tried a few things, but no luck. I'm looking into firmware, but there's a chicken egg problem where I cant get to menu so cannot check that.

Anyone know what this issue could be? Perhaps caps I neglected to replace before?

Also, it's great that there appear to be a lot of new OTA DVRs around now, like the Amazon fire one. However, these all seem to require internet, which my in laws do not have outside of a cell phone. Does anyone know if any current OTA DVRs work without internet and can get guide data OTA?
falz is offline  
post #19593 of 19722 Old 12-01-2018, 08:03 AM
Senior Member
 
wiscojim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Appleton, Wisconsin USA
Posts: 487
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by falz View Post
Also, it's great that there appear to be a lot of new OTA DVRs around now, like the Amazon fire one. However, these all seem to require internet, which my in laws do not have outside of a cell phone. Does anyone know if any current OTA DVRs work without internet and can get guide data OTA?
Those that rely on OTA guide info (PSIP) are really handicapped in that many of the TV stations only put out a minimum of 6 hours data. Scheduling in advance is the same as with the DTVPalDVR, pretty limited.

.
wiscojim is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19594 of 19722 Old 12-01-2018, 08:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
P Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Mediterranean Sea
Posts: 3,821
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked: 492
Exclamation Recover FW

Quote:
Originally Posted by falz View Post
...
Anyone know what this issue could be? Perhaps caps I neglected to replace before?
...
Could be an EEPROM damaged by FW, it has protected bootloader only, but FW itself using same part of EEPROM as user settings, schedules, alarms, results of recordings, EPG, station's channels list, etc
So. any memory leak, what touch/affect FW code's copy in RAM, could create an havoc in functioning what may force to write some storing data into FW code areas; then your DVR become handicapped or turned into a boat anchor.

Back to days when I actively helped people to recover such DVRs, I did rewrote FW from my good working unit. It was daunting task as the EEPROM is small chip in BGA package.
P Smith is offline  
post #19595 of 19722 Old 12-01-2018, 05:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JHBrandt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: S. Garland, TX
Posts: 6,886
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2769 Post(s)
Liked: 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by falz View Post
Hi there- Many moons ago I purchased two DTVPal DVRs for an in-law. They both began giving her issues as of a few weeks ago- they appear to boot, immediately go to sleep mode and the remote won't wake it up.
You might have tried this already, but does the Sys Info button work?

If it does, the problem may be simply that the DTVPals and remotes got set to different addresses somehow. The Sys Info screen will show the DTVPal's remote address, so you can program the remote to match.
Quote:
Originally Posted by falz View Post
Also, it's great that there appear to be a lot of new OTA DVRs around now, like the Amazon fire one. However, these all seem to require internet, which my in laws do not have outside of a cell phone. Does anyone know if any current OTA DVRs work without internet and can get guide data OTA?
Well, there's always the mStar-based boxes like iView, HomeWorx, etc. Only one tuner and 24 hours of guide, but they are cheap....

For 2-tuner, PSIP-based DVRs, the only one still available new that I know of is ePVision's PHD-VRX2. But its firmware is pretty problematic. I think a used Channel Master DVR+ would be a better bet.
JHBrandt is offline  
post #19596 of 19722 Old 12-02-2018, 11:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ed_in_tx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NW Dallas TX
Posts: 1,521
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
You might have tried this already, but does the Sys Info button work?
I was thinking that too.

Does the power LED on the Pals "blink" once when you press (almost) any button on the remote? They will do that even if the remote code is set wrong.
ed_in_tx is offline  
post #19597 of 19722 Old 12-04-2018, 09:45 AM
Member
 
fiftyincher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I replaced the suspect capacitors 4 years ago when I was having issues freezing. Now I get no picture. Green light comes on but nothing gets displayed to the tv. Has anyone had that happen? I took it apart and looked at the capacitors again but I didn't see anything obvious.
fiftyincher is offline  
post #19598 of 19722 Old 12-04-2018, 11:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
P Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Mediterranean Sea
Posts: 3,821
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiftyincher View Post
I replaced the suspect capacitors 4 years ago when I was having issues freezing. Now I get no picture. Green light comes on but nothing gets displayed to the tv. Has anyone had that happen? I took it apart and looked at the capacitors again but I didn't see anything obvious.
we are discussing similar problem last days - look at posts above
fiftyincher likes this.
P Smith is offline  
post #19599 of 19722 Old 12-04-2018, 11:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ed_in_tx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NW Dallas TX
Posts: 1,521
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiftyincher View Post
I replaced the suspect capacitors 4 years ago when I was having issues freezing. Now I get no picture. Green light comes on but nothing gets displayed to the tv. Has anyone had that happen? I took it apart and looked at the capacitors again but I didn't see anything obvious.
Did you try pressing the "Analog Pass Thru" button on the remote? That would give you the same symptom as it disables the RF signal to the tuner.

Does not work like you'd think, like the common TV-VCR button on a VCR that would bypass the VCR and pass RF signal to the TV while VCR tuner is still receiving a signal so you could watch one channel with the TV tuner and record another channel with the VCR.
fiftyincher likes this.
ed_in_tx is offline  
post #19600 of 19722 Old 12-04-2018, 02:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JHBrandt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: S. Garland, TX
Posts: 6,886
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2769 Post(s)
Liked: 1348
The pass through button on the DTVPal is pretty useless. Basically the same as putting the unit in standby, except the green light stays on to confuse you.
JHBrandt is offline  
post #19601 of 19722 Old 12-04-2018, 04:16 PM
Member
 
fiftyincher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I don't get any response, the green light doesn't flash once like it usually does with any button press on the remote. Plug the dvr in, solid green light (no red, does the red usually light up when first plugged in?), hd spins, but just a blankblack screen.
fiftyincher is offline  
post #19602 of 19722 Old 12-04-2018, 05:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JHBrandt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: S. Garland, TX
Posts: 6,886
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2769 Post(s)
Liked: 1348
I have one like that. I suspect mine's toast, but I've hung onto it just in case someone comes up with a fix.
JHBrandt is offline  
post #19603 of 19722 Old 12-05-2018, 12:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
P Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Mediterranean Sea
Posts: 3,821
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked: 492
I could try to reimage FW in it ...
P Smith is offline  
post #19604 of 19722 Old 12-05-2018, 04:19 AM
Member
 
fiftyincher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
I could try to reimage FW in it ...
Thanks, but I doubt it's worth the cost. It's had a good run
fiftyincher is offline  
post #19605 of 19722 Old 12-05-2018, 05:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
P Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Mediterranean Sea
Posts: 3,821
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked: 492
When you'll be ready to toss it, I'll give you an address of my scrap box
fiftyincher likes this.
P Smith is offline  
post #19606 of 19722 Old 12-05-2018, 05:41 AM
Member
 
kkoceski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Batteries in your remote ???
Sorry, I know it's kinda like the question : is it plugged in ?
kkoceski is offline  
post #19607 of 19722 Old 12-05-2018, 05:50 AM
Member
 
fiftyincher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkoceski View Post
Batteries in your remote ???
Sorry, I know it's kinda like the question : is it plugged in ?
Yes - but that wouldn't explain the no signal.
fiftyincher is offline  
post #19608 of 19722 Old 12-15-2018, 01:38 PM
Newbie
 
sharpfork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
still useful in 2018?

Howdy-

I have a good condition DTVPAL that has been sitting in a box for 8 or so years.
Is this still a useful device in 2018?
Has anyone hacked the thing to get it to used the ethernet or USB for anyhting?

Thanks!
sharpfork is offline  
post #19609 of 19722 Old 12-15-2018, 02:13 PM
Member
 
kcclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Hilliard, Ohio
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpfork View Post
I have a good condition DTVPAL that has been sitting in a box for 8 or so years.
Is this still a useful device in 2018?
"Useful" is in the eye of the beholder. I use mine everyday and have preferred it over alternatives I've tried. But I have a lot of OTA channels and I don't like paying for cable, dish, and/or streaming. YMMV
kcclark is offline  
post #19610 of 19722 Old 12-15-2018, 05:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JHBrandt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: S. Garland, TX
Posts: 6,886
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2769 Post(s)
Liked: 1348
I still use mine too. As long as you're just recording OTA, the PSIP-based program guide is enough for your needs, and you don't need to offload recordings, a working DTVPal is pretty hard to beat. Occasionally one craps out, but for the most part, they'll keep working as long as the electrolytic capacitors and the hard drive are good and there are ATSC 1.0 stations to record.

The firmware has proven quite resistant to hacking, though, so unofficial enhancements continue to be unlikely.

OT: If I were going to spend time trying to hack some DVR's firmware, I'd probably pick one of the cheap Mstar-based boxes. True, they don't have Ethernet ports; but their firmware is nowhere near as well protected as E*'s firmware, lots of folks (presumably including a few hackers) have one, and if you brick it, you're out $35 tops. But I haven't seen much even about hacking those.
ko220 likes this.
JHBrandt is offline  
post #19611 of 19722 Old 12-15-2018, 08:22 PM
Newbie
 
sharpfork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Awesome, thanks. I'm thinking of setting it up for my father in law. What is
Quote:
JPSIP-based program guide
I've read a bit about the program guide being less good than it was when the system launched. Is it limited in quality or duration?

I want to do some research before I over sell what it will do for him with a decent OTA antenna.

Thanks

Last edited by sharpfork; 12-15-2018 at 08:51 PM.
sharpfork is offline  
post #19612 of 19722 Old 12-15-2018, 10:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
P Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Mediterranean Sea
Posts: 3,821
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked: 492
P Smith is offline  
post #19613 of 19722 Old 12-16-2018, 04:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
frank70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,417
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpfork View Post
I've read a bit about the program guide being less good than it was when the system launched. Is it limited in quality or duration?
The PSIP guide is transmitted OTA along with the program content and typically only supplies about 24 hours of information (at the whim of the station). Lately it seems that, in spite of FCC mandates to the contrary, many stations provide far less and some none at all (for some or all of their subchannels). Of course, there is the occasional outstanding station that provides several DAYS of program guide in its PSIP, but those are rare.
frank70 is offline  
post #19614 of 19722 Old 12-16-2018, 06:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
P Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Mediterranean Sea
Posts: 3,821
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked: 492
reading the thread and DVR+ other about PSIP will give a BIG scoop of knowledge
P Smith is offline  
post #19615 of 19722 Old 12-16-2018, 06:46 AM
Newbie
 
sharpfork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
reading the thread and DVR+ other about PSIP will give a BIG scoop of knowledge
Thanks, by expanding my googlefu to include DVR+ I found more info. With the limited amount of guide data passed, can the DTVPal still record a weekly series with some predictability? I assume setting up initial recordings would need to happen every day for a week or two to get the recordings setup, that that accurate?

In case anyone is looking for the same info as me, this is what I found:

https://support.channelmaster.com/hc...ations-provide

Quote:
What information do the TV stations provide through the PSIP data?
Time (this can sometimes vary/be inaccurate if it was not programmed correctly)
Virtual channel number (the channel number displayed on your TV)
Channel Network/Call letters
Current program title and description
Program guide information (usually 10 hours to 3 days in advance)
Unfortunately, not all TV stations provide this information, or keep it accurate and up to date.

Last edited by sharpfork; 12-16-2018 at 07:01 AM.
sharpfork is offline  
post #19616 of 19722 Old 12-16-2018, 07:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
frank70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,417
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 165 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpfork View Post
...can the DTVPal still record a weekly series with some predictability?...
Note that no guide can deal with unpredictable changes in program (series) start times. For example, afternoon sports on CBS virtually always run late, pushing "60-minutes" and the three series episodes that follow anywhere from several minutes to an hour late. This is not reflected in any guide. To deal with that, I always extend the last program in such a set by 1 hour.
frank70 is offline  
post #19617 of 19722 Old 12-16-2018, 10:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JHBrandt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: S. Garland, TX
Posts: 6,886
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2769 Post(s)
Liked: 1348
The DTVPal records by time and day of week, much like VCRs did back in the day. But usually that's no problem because the vast majority of TV shows air at the same time, same channel, same day(s) of week every week.

The advantage of name-based DVRs like TiVo or the DVR+ is that they have some ability to adapt when TV shows don't follow that usual predictability. For example, the DVR+ would delay my recording of The Late Show With Stephen Colbert on Thursdays when Thursday Night Football was expected to push back LSSC's air time.

But that ability to adapt is only as good as the guide data they're depending on. So typically, the DVR+ would delay recording LSSC by 15 minutes, because that's what the guide showed; but if the game ran longer than anticipated, then even with a 15-minute delay, the DVR+ would still start (and stop) recording too early.


On the other question, the biggest problem with PSIP-based (as opposed to Internet-based) guides is that stations usually provide only a day or two of guide data through PSIP. A few stations provide more (PBS typically provides 3 days) but some stations don't even provide a full day.

Internet-based guides typically go out two weeks or more, making it easier to plan your recordings in advance. But the shorter PSIP-based guides are fine for many folks. (Personally I think the "sweet spot" for program guides is about a week to 10 days; guide data further in the future is often less reliable.)
JHBrandt is offline  
post #19618 of 19722 Old 12-18-2018, 08:33 PM
Senior Member
 
visualsensation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I'm checking on this thread for the first time in 4 years, when I abandoned the DTVPal for a used Tivo series 3 with lifetime service. I haven't regretted that decision one minute. The end of TVGOS really quashed any chance of the DTVPal gaining any kind of market share. PSIP guide data royally sucks, and the way DTVPal "calculates" its clock time based on the averages of PSIP time data from multiple stations only compounded its unreliability in my TV market. I thought it was funny that Macrovision, which provided TVGOS, ultimately ended up buying Tivo. Tivo isn't perfect (I had to replace the hard drive and capacitors on the power supply) but my frustration level was about 95% less with Tivo. I just hope they keep supporting my Series 3 well into the future.
visualsensation is offline  
post #19619 of 19722 Old 12-19-2018, 07:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JHBrandt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: S. Garland, TX
Posts: 6,886
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2769 Post(s)
Liked: 1348
Quote:
The end of TVGOS really quashed any chance of the DTVPal gaining any kind of market share.
I think the DTVPal's chances of gaining market share were quashed even earlier, when Dish stopped, you know, marketing them

Not sure what prompted your post yesterday. Didn't Rovi discontinue TVGoS in like, 2012? (Edit: Early 2013 most places.) At that time, IIRC there weren't a lot of alternatives to TiVo if you needed or wanted an Internet-based guide (I think Channel Master's CM-7400 or a PC with WMC were about it) so I can't fault your choice. But now there are more choices: a Stream+, used DVR+, AirTV, Amazon Recast, etc. And of course a PC with Windows 8.1 and WMC still works, although it's getting rather long in the tooth by now.

Besides, anyone still following this thread has presumably been able and willing to live with their DTVPal and its reliance on PSIP for the past six years, so I doubt they'll suddenly decide it's time to move on to TiVo.
golinux and ko220 like this.

Last edited by JHBrandt; 12-19-2018 at 08:03 AM.
JHBrandt is offline  
post #19620 of 19722 Old 12-19-2018, 09:03 AM
Senior Member
 
wiscojim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Appleton, Wisconsin USA
Posts: 487
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Besides, anyone still following this thread has presumably been able and willing to live with their DTVPal and its reliance on PSIP for the past six years, so I doubt they'll suddenly decide it's time to move on to TiVo.
I do the majority of my DVRing on a couple of DVR+ units (one specifically for PBS, the other for regular network programming), but I still do all my sports on my DTVPalDVR units. Hard to beat the great forward and reverse slow motion and the 300X ff/rewind speeds. DVR+ doesn't come close in those categories.

.
JHBrandt likes this.
wiscojim is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply HDTV Recorders

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off