The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 659 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19741 of 19769 Old 10-13-2019, 01:00 PM
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Exclamation oranges and apples

Caps and HDD working and dying differently.
So, need use ESMeter for caps and SMART control program for HDDs. MHDD program is good too.
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post #19742 of 19769 Old 10-13-2019, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ko220 View Post
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.
He's saying to take the HDDs out of the DVRs, install them (one at a time) into a PC, run diagnostic software on them, and post screen shots of the results here.
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I guess before I get into that, I'm wondering what the symptoms of a bad hard drive are, or if the problems I'm having are more than likely the caps. Or if they're just so old that they may die anyway.
There aren't always definitive symptoms that point to one or the other, but in your case, if the problems only occur when trying to play back recordings and the DVRs otherwise seem to work, I'd say that points more toward HDD failure.
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post #19743 of 19769 Old 10-14-2019, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
He's saying to take the HDDs out of the DVRs, install them (one at a time) into a PC, run diagnostic software on them, and post screen shots of the results here.There aren't always definitive symptoms that point to one or the other, but in your case, if the problems only occur when trying to play back recordings and the DVRs otherwise seem to work, I'd say that points more toward HDD failure.

Thank you! I'll look into that. Right now we've switched HDs between the 2 malfunctioning units, and I'm going to see if the original problems are re-created on them.


I'm just wondering: in your opinion, are the Pals and CM's exactly the same, or were the Pals (which are a little bit older, as I recall) manufactured with better original parts?

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post #19744 of 19769 Old 10-14-2019, 04:46 AM
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Arrow parts

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Originally Posted by ko220 View Post
...
I'm just wondering: in your opinion, are the Pals and CM's exactly the same, or were the Pals (which are a little bit older, as I recall) manufactured with better original parts?
I will assure you (from practical standpoint of fixing the devices), mainboard, power boards are the same. Mfg dates shows same BOM used, same line of production …
What Chinese mfg-ing product manager bought on a market (capacitors, chips, etc) for different dates nobody knows...
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post #19745 of 19769 Old 10-16-2019, 04:53 AM
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Well, the experiment paid off: we switched the HD's between 2 differently malfunctioning units. Unit A's (the one with 4 new caps) problem, which was an endless loop every time you tried to navigate prerecorded programs, was then replicated exactly on Unit B (it has 14 new caps), so that hard drive is definitely bad. It doesn't explain why Unit A suddenly is OK with no problems - Unit B used to freeze programs on playback and now Unit A has its HD - but I'll just have to keep testing it. I'm wondering about these HD's, though. Where would you get one? Is there a very specific drive you have to get? Would a larger one in terms of memory fit in there and work as well?
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post #19746 of 19769 Old 10-16-2019, 06:22 AM
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I'm wondering about these HD's, though. Where would you get one? Is there a very specific drive you have to get? Would a larger one in terms of memory fit in there and work as well?
Western Digital WD10EURX
This one works fine. I have a couple of them in service since 2014 and 2015. Cheap on Amazon too. Buy new, not refurbished.
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post #19747 of 19769 Old 10-16-2019, 11:36 AM
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Western Digital WD10EURX
This one works fine. I have a couple of them in service since 2014 and 2015. Cheap on Amazon too. Buy new, not refurbished.

Thank you for the recommendation. It's kind of confusing because it says 1TB, but it also says it's a 64MB drive. Do you know how much memory it actually has? My original drive holds about 31 hours of HD programming. It would be great to expand that if possible.
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post #19748 of 19769 Old 10-16-2019, 11:50 AM
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Thank you for the recommendation. It's kind of confusing because it says 1TB, but it also says it's a 64MB drive. Do you know how much memory it actually has? My original drive holds about 31 hours of HD programming. It would be great to expand that if possible.
Original was 250 GB. Recommended one is 1 TB, the maximum the 'Pal can accommodate. 4 times the capacity. 64 MB is the drive's buffer memory.
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post #19749 of 19769 Old 10-17-2019, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Original was 250 GB. Recommended one is 1 TB, the maximum the 'Pal can accommodate. 4 times the capacity. 64 MB is the drive's buffer memory.

Thanks so much! You've been very helpful!
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post #19750 of 19769 Old 10-18-2019, 05:45 AM
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Anyway - it's HDD aka Hard Disk Drive, not HD aka HiDef …
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post #19751 of 19769 Old 11-26-2019, 06:05 AM
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Well looks like I am down to 1 spare 'Pal. The bedroom 'Pal would only blink the power light last night, so I tried a reboot with the remote. Got the DTVPal "Loading please wait" animation but that's all. Unplugged and re-plugged into power for a full startup, and now still stuck on that screen but no response to the remote so it isn't even loading up to the remote commands. Bummer.

P Smith, what goes wrong, the EEPROM chip?
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post #19752 of 19769 Old 11-26-2019, 07:22 AM
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I would try to reload any FW to see if it will boot. Perhaps disconnect HDD...
If not, then it goes into same routine: capacitors, VR level's check, oscillators, etc
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post #19753 of 19769 Old 11-26-2019, 09:33 AM
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I would try to reload any FW to see if it will boot. Perhaps disconnect HDD...
If not, then it goes into same routine: capacitors, VR level's check, oscillators, etc
Thanks Paul. Tried disconnecting the HDD first thing. No go.

Anyone have F208 I can download?
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post #19754 of 19769 Old 11-26-2019, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Thanks Paul. Tried disconnecting the HDD first thing. No go.

Anyone have F208 I can download?
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/33yob54lz...Nf_eqSO1a?dl=0

.
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post #19755 of 19769 Old 11-26-2019, 10:54 AM
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Much thanks Wiscojim!

I had it, thought I knew where it was, but haven't seen the memory stick it's on in several years since I updated my original 'Pal (still running). And that file would be on my old failed XP machine.

Anyway...
I put the 1TB HDD from the failed 'Pal into my used spare, ran setup, all OK. Bought this one 6 + years ago, few hours on it . It did need two capacitors replaced which is why it was on ebay back then, has 2012 recordings on the original HDD, and all the New Mexico stations where it came from still stored in memory until I did a reset.
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post #19756 of 19769 Old 11-26-2019, 06:49 PM
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What's probably just coincidence but you never know... yesterday I posted in the D-FW HDTV forum talking about all the off-time data the stations send out, that my DTVPal in the living room which is "on" from 7 am until nearly midnight every day, had been within a few seconds of real time. It suddenly became 2 min slow and a M-F timer setting programmed to auto-tune to Ch 4 at Noon got corrupted and changed to 10 AM and tried to auto-tune at 10 AM which is why I noticed it. First time that's happened in a while and usually those events are tied to DST changes. Just happens that the bedroom 'Pal, in use and "on" maybe an hour or two a day, failed on the same day and is stuck on the "loading please wait" screen! I recall some discussion about clock data possibly 'bricking' one of these units. Makes me wonder...
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post #19757 of 19769 Old 11-27-2019, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Just happens that the bedroom 'Pal, in use and "on" maybe an hour or two a day, failed on the same day and is stuck on the "loading please wait" screen! I recall some discussion about clock data possibly 'bricking' one of these units.
I assume you've already tried this, but just in case....
Quote:
DTVPal DVR may get stuck in a "loading...please wait" reboot loop. Greatly minimized in F208 software!

This is known as the "corrupt timer" issue.

If your DTVPal DVR has the F208 software, disconnecting the antenna coax will usually halt the reboot loop. While the antenna coax is disconnected, reset the DVR to the factory defaults under Menu -> Setup -> System Setup -> Restore Factory Defaults. That will delete your timers and settings, but it will preserve your recordings and allow your DTVPal DVR to function again with the antenna connected.
So, it does seem plausible that whatever glitch corrupted the timer on your other 'Pal also bricked this one.

TBH, the few times I've seen a 'Pal stuck in a "loading...please wait" loop, disconnecting the antenna coax did not help. But it's worth a try anyway.
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post #19758 of 19769 Old 11-27-2019, 08:20 AM
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No I didn't try disconnecting the antenna, I'll do that. Not too sure about how one would get to the "Setup- Restore Factory defaults" if the thing is stuck on the "loading please wait" screen and is not even responding by blinking of the power LED with remote commands.
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post #19759 of 19769 Old 11-27-2019, 11:29 AM
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I tried the dead Pal with no antenna and HDD disconnected. Lo and behold after about 2 min screen changed to HDD Error screen against black video, got out of that and no tuner. Signal Lost. Tried a factory reset, completed but had 0 channels, and seems impossible to exit out of the channel scanning, it keeps wanting to scan for channels or aim antenna and try try again, so I unplugged it and that's as far as I got. No tuner function.
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post #19760 of 19769 Old 11-27-2019, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
I tried the dead Pal with no antenna and HDD disconnected. Lo and behold after about 2 min screen changed to HDD Error screen against black video, got out of that and no tuner. Signal Lost. Tried a factory reset, completed but had 0 channels, and seems impossible to exit out of the channel scanning, it keeps wanting to scan for channels or aim antenna and try try again, so I unplugged it and that's as far as I got. No tuner function.
Did you hook up the antenna again?

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post #19761 of 19769 Old 11-27-2019, 11:58 AM
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if it happening with antenna connected, then tuner or/and demod chip is dead
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post #19762 of 19769 Old 11-27-2019, 12:03 PM
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... in which case it probably was just a coincidence that it died the same day your other Pal's timer got corrupted.
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post #19763 of 19769 Old 11-27-2019, 12:24 PM
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Yep hooked up the antenna when it first came up with the HDD error which should have restored the lost signal, and nothing even though it showed Ch 33.1 the last channel it had tuned to before it failed.

Yes Paul I suspect that tuner IC has bit the dust. I actually found a production roll of Microtune MT2131 ICs on ebay some time back now, but I didn't need several hundred! Microtune is/was a local Richardson TX company. Wonder if they've got any leftovers in the back room somewhere...

And probably was just a coincidence that it happened same day the other Pal's clock and timers got messed up.
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post #19764 of 19769 Old 11-27-2019, 01:09 PM
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I do have a bad DTVPal main board, but the tuners are probably OK, if you can (or know someone who can) desolder/resolder them without damage.
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post #19765 of 19769 Old 11-27-2019, 03:30 PM
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I do have a bad DTVPal main board, but the tuners are probably OK, if you can (or know someone who can) desolder/resolder them without damage.
Thanks for the offer, I wish there was a way but looking at it, definitely would need special equipment to desolder and remove one of those without damage or overheating. Did notice though a crystal oscillator under the tuner shield, SRX7318 16 mHz that probably runs the two tuner ICs and it could be dead. Google search and a thread on AVS mentions that same crystal osc and the same tuner IC were used in the DTVPal converter boxes. I may probe around on it with an oscilloscope and see if I can find the oscillator signal. I do have a pin-out for the tuner ICs. I'll also be on the lookout for another 'Pal with freezing and locking up symptoms that I can probably fix with a couple of caps.
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post #19766 of 19769 Old 11-28-2019, 02:41 PM
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Looks like I am searching for an "SRX7318 E" crystal. That one isn't oscillating. There are 4 others on the board same package different frequencies that are all oscillating nicely. The one in the tuner shield is dead. Searching, there's a 1000 lot of them on ebay for only $99! If I can't find an individual part, probably salvage one from a TR40 converter box, they are pretty cheap on ebay. That appears to be doable.
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post #19767 of 19769 Old 11-29-2019, 12:39 AM
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Lets see if it's only one fallen part ...
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post #19768 of 19769 Old 11-29-2019, 05:57 AM
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Got any of those in stock Paul?

Unless there's something on the board inhibiting that crystal to oscillate, that's probably the problem. I'll mess with it again someday if I can find an SRX7318.

UPDATE: Found a source for the crystal, coming from China, so stay "tuned"...

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post #19769 of 19769 Old 11-29-2019, 10:02 AM
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Got any of those in stock Paul?

Unless there's something on the board inhibiting that crystal to oscillate, that's probably the problem. I'll mess with it again someday if I can find an SRX7318.

UPDATE: Found a source for the crystal, coming from China, so stay "tuned"...
I would say the tuner chip(s) could shunt it...
when you'll get new one, we will know
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