Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 309 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9241 of 16757 Old 08-06-2015, 02:17 PM
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I finally decided and went with the Tivo Roamio basic unit on their Summer sale that's running now. $49.99 Tivo + $349.99 lifetime. That way I can do OTA tv, (which is what I'm doing at present) or switch to cable tv with a cablecard. It's also easy for my wife to use, as it's very much like my Dish VIP722k dvr.

I've had it now for a month, and it's worked flawlessly. I would have gone with the Channel Master, but for $400 total, the Tivo is a no-brainer.
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post #9242 of 16757 Old 08-06-2015, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner2Bruce View Post
I have a question for anyone with the updated remote. After you have used the input button to select your choice like HDMI 1, HDMI 2, etc. How do you get that to "disappear" without letting it just time out so that it isn't on your TV screen anymore? Love the new remote but haven't figured out this yet that is quite annoying...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
I don't have that remote, but using my TV's remote the input screen can be cancelled with the return button. My other DVR's remote also can bring up the input selection on the TV, but nothing makes it go away faster than just timing out.
Using my Samsung TV's (see sig) own remote, Return Button instantly "disappear's" it or it will go away on its own after ten seconds.

Using my DVR+ standard Remote (not that Optional one) it "disappear's" in less than five seconds. Return button does not instantly disappear it.
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post #9243 of 16757 Old 08-06-2015, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner2Bruce View Post
I have a question for anyone with the updated remote. After you have used the input button to select your choice like HDMI 1, HDMI 2, etc. How do you get that to "disappear" without letting it just time out so that it isn't on your TV screen anymore? Love the new remote but haven't figured out this yet that is quite annoying...
My TiVo and DVR+ remotes both lack a way to terminate the display. Once I select the input, I just hit volume up or down. That clears the screen.
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post #9244 of 16757 Old 08-07-2015, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
I finally decided and went with the Tivo Roamio basic unit on their Summer sale that's running now. $49.99 Tivo + $349.99 lifetime. That way I can do OTA tv, (which is what I'm doing at present) or switch to cable tv with a cablecard. It's also easy for my wife to use, as it's very much like my Dish VIP722k dvr.

I've had it now for a month, and it's worked flawlessly. I would have gone with the Channel Master, but for $400 total, the Tivo is a no-brainer.

Your post is in the wrong thread, you need to go to the TIVO thread. Nobody here cares that you bought a TIVO.
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post #9245 of 16757 Old 08-07-2015, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
It isn't my fault that the DVR+ is missing a basic feature. Even a DVD player has chapter marks, as non-linear navigation was one of the main benefits of switching from analogue to digital video.
Since you apparently do not own a DVR+, why are you posting here? Are you considering buying one or merely trolling?
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post #9246 of 16757 Old 08-07-2015, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pachinko View Post
...In 124R, the trouble with drives that spin down is that the 124R isn’t patient enough to wait a few seconds more for the drive to spin back up (like it did in 114R), so be prepared for that to happen. As long as you don’t attempt to access the DVR Recordings for 5 or 10 or 15 seconds, all is well (at least for me). And if you do access the EHD too early, ignore the false positive disk error message! Just clear it out, and by that time the drive is probably up to speed and all is well. You can immediately go to the Guide, or play Live TV, you just can’t access the EHD right away. While this needs fix’n, it hasn’t been that much of an issue to me once the workaround was identified...
Does this issue affect the DVR+ making scheduled recordings?
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post #9247 of 16757 Old 08-07-2015, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RTPVid View Post
Does this issue affect the DVR+ making scheduled recordings?
I hadn't tried that until you asked, so I just did, and YES it does affect making a scheduled recording when trying to schedule one just a few seconds after coming out of Standby mode and the USB HDD had been sleeping too. I was able to view the Rovi Guide, and selected "Record this program" with no trouble, but after selecting "Record just this program", it evidently tried to access the USB HDD, and the fault occurred.

This is the first time that the fault persisted, even after about 1 minute. So I put the DVR+ into Standby for a few seconds, and the then turned it back on. All was well after that, and I was able to schedule the recording without any issues.
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post #9248 of 16757 Old 08-07-2015, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
You don't have any kind of GoTo button on the remote? I'd call that a far bigger oversight than the inablity to record the same channel to multiple files simultaneously.
Nope; neither the DVR+ nor its predecessor, the DTVPal, has a GoTo button. I agree they should have one; even my $40 Homeworx does.

However, a GoTo button is no substitute for having separate recordings for separate shows that just happen to air back-to-back on the same channel. If you have one file, it has one name and one description, even if it contains several back-to-back shows. That makes it a lot harder to organize a large number of recordings.

I suppose E* could have implemented something like a DVD-style "chapter" system, where the displayed recordings were merely pointers into a .ts file that might contain several back-to-back recordings; but that sounds like a much more complex design than merely writing a few minutes of duplicate video data to two files once in a while.
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post #9249 of 16757 Old 08-07-2015, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner2Bruce View Post
I have a question for anyone with the updated remote. After you have used the input button to select your choice like HDMI 1, HDMI 2, etc. How do you get that to "disappear" without letting it just time out so that it isn't on your TV screen anymore? Love the new remote but haven't figured out this yet that is quite annoying...
I don't own the new remote but I doubt it has a way to do this. I know the "stock" remote doesn't.

Depending on your TV you may be able to cancel the input display box with the mute or volume buttons - but those buttons may pop up their own annoying displays that you then have to wait to time out.

Really, a better solution is a universal or, ideally, a learning remote where you can just "teach" an unused key to send your TV remote's "cancel" function.
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post #9250 of 16757 Old 08-07-2015, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTPVid View Post
Does this issue affect the DVR+ making scheduled recordings?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pachinko View Post
I hadn't tried that until you asked, so I just did, and YES it does affect making a scheduled recording when trying to schedule one just a few seconds after coming out of Standby mode and the USB HDD had been sleeping too.
Thanks for posting this discovery. But I think RTPVid was asking a slightly different question: if you've already scheduled a recording, does the 124R issue affect the DVR+'s ability to wake up the drive and record the show?

IIRC others have posted that the answer to that question is no: the DVR+ will record successfully, even if you experience the 124R issue when turning it on yourself. But if anyone has had problems with this, please let us all know!
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post #9251 of 16757 Old 08-07-2015, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Thanks for posting this discovery. But I think RTPVid was asking a slightly different question: if you've already scheduled a recording, does the 124R issue affect the DVR+'s ability to wake up the drive and record the show?

IIRC others have posted that the answer to that question is no: the DVR+ will record successfully, even if you experience the 124R issue when turning it on yourself. But if anyone has had problems with this, please let us all know!
Thanks @JHBrandt ! With that in mind, then I concur with the others you reference, I have not had any problems, in 124R, with scheduled recordings waking up the USB HDD in time to record successfully.
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post #9252 of 16757 Old 08-07-2015, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
However, a GoTo button is no substitute for having separate recordings for separate shows that just happen to air back-to-back on the same channel. If you have one file, it has one name and one description, even if it contains several back-to-back shows. That makes it a lot harder to organize a large number of recordings.
It also doesn't make sense to write the same data to multiple files, since that's a waste of space. You could end up wasting quite a bit of HDD space if you're one of those people who pads every recording by 5 minutes on both ends and also records multiple weeks' worth of programming at once without watching or deleting anything. My take on what should happen is that the DVR should realise that there are two back-to-back recordings and immediately stop recording 1 and start recording 2 without losing any footage in between file 1 and file 2. That's just hard to do with keyframe intervals being what they are, so you usually end up with a gap of at least a few seconds when you try to do that. Recording a duplicate grace period of one GOP would solve that problem while wasting minimal space, though (i.e. prepending the last GOP of file 1 to file 2 to ensure that no footage was lost while also eliminating the wasted space of including padding four times instead of two times).
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post #9253 of 16757 Old 08-07-2015, 10:54 PM
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Re: My DVR+ Locking Up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arenal04 View Post
... Have you tried a cold reboot? That is, unplug the power cable at the wall, wait 5 minutes, then reconnect the power cable? 114R has some issues that require this process to clear them out.
Perhaps the cold reboot I did was not cold enough; I'll have to wait longer next time. Does it really need to be 5 minutes? Thanks. Funny, trying to fix a freezing problem with a cold reboot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
I think the concept of user-defined chapter marks has been dropped from newer DVRs ... Most commercial DVD/BD have chapter skip ability, but I don't see CM adding such ability.
Yeah, I don't see CM adding a lot of cool, useful things. They certainly missed a bunch of them with this latest FW "upgrade".

Quote:
Originally Posted by pachinko View Post
Have you tried to eliminate the EHD as a source of the lock ups by disconnecting the EHD for an extended period of time to see if the unit locks up without the EHD?
Good idea. That's a thing I'll have to try if the cold(er) reboot fails. Thanks.

UPDATE: I've just had my first instance of DVR+ locking up without the EHD connected (using internal 16GB). As before, it was fixed (if you can call it that) with a simple reboot. In a related matter, the DVR's nagging me now every couple of hours about the SW update. It started about a wk. and a half after I unblocked the FW site.

[Signature not found -- or just not clever enough.]

Last edited by SirCrow; 08-17-2015 at 10:11 AM. Reason: latest development
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post #9254 of 16757 Old 08-07-2015, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
I finally decided and went with the Tivo Roamio basic unit on their Summer sale that's running now. $49.99 Tivo + $349.99 lifetime. That way I can do OTA tv, (which is what I'm doing at present) or switch to cable tv with a cablecard. It's also easy for my wife to use, as it's very much like my Dish VIP722k dvr.

I've had it now for a month, and it's worked flawlessly. I would have gone with the Channel Master, but for $400 total, the Tivo is a no-brainer.
If your location is Under the bridge, does that make you a troll?
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post #9255 of 16757 Old 08-07-2015, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SirCrow View Post
If your location is Under the bridge, does that make you a troll?
Yep, I live in Mid-Michigan, which is 'under' the (Mackinac) bridge, so Yoopers call us "Trolls"

Also, just because I posted that I finally went with a Tivo as a follow-up to my posts way back towards the beginning of this huge thread, doesn't make me an internet troll. I genuinely did research (for over a year!) as to what dvr would be best for my situation (wife that's EXTREMELY technophobe), and the Tivo just was it, especially at their Summer sale price.

Have at it, I had to reply to this last post attempting to label me as a troll, but this is the last I'll "infect" your thread with my posts.
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post #9256 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SirCrow View Post
Perhaps the cold reboot I did was not cold enough; I'll have to wait longer next time. Does it really need to be 5 minutes? Thanks.
Unknown for sure what the length of time needs to be. Others have reported doing a successful cold reboot when waiting less time. I arbitrarily chose 5 minutes and that's worked every time for me. Thus, I've been sticking with 5 minutes.
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post #9257 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Arenal04 View Post
Unknown for sure what the length of time needs to be. Others have reported doing a successful cold reboot when waiting less time. I arbitrarily chose 5 minutes and that's worked every time for me. Thus, I've been sticking with 5 minutes.
to drain all energy from capacitors eg discard any value in internal registers/triggers what would bring status of all components to ground zero, you will need just merely 30 seconds;
waiting more then that, it's just your personal time idling
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post #9258 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
... If you have one file, it has one name and one description, even if it contains several back-to-back shows. That makes it a lot harder to organize a large number of recordings.

I suppose E* could have implemented something like a DVD-style "chapter" system, where the displayed recordings were merely pointers into a .ts file that might contain several back-to-back recordings; but that sounds like a much more complex design than merely writing a few minutes of duplicate video data to two files once in a while.
I recall doing max length recordings [12 hrs] I did see in "bookmark" metafiles separate sections of each show; so pressing Info button during play of the big files would give you proper description and rating to execute parent control rules
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post #9259 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
It also doesn't make sense to write the same data to multiple files, since that's a waste of space. You could end up wasting quite a bit of HDD space if you're one of those people who pads every recording by 5 minutes on both ends and also records multiple weeks' worth of programming at once without watching or deleting anything. My take on what should happen is that the DVR should realise that there are two back-to-back recordings and immediately stop recording 1 and start recording 2 without losing any footage in between file 1 and file 2. That's just hard to do with keyframe intervals being what they are, so you usually end up with a gap of at least a few seconds when you try to do that. Recording a duplicate grace period of one GOP would solve that problem while wasting minimal space, though (i.e. prepending the last GOP of file 1 to file 2 to ensure that no footage was lost while also eliminating the wasted space of including padding four times instead of two times).
There’s nothing wrong with your approach, it’s just not the approach for everyone. What “doesn’t make sense” to one person, makes perfect sense to another. In my particular case, I don’t mind wasting storage space in order to retain the padding on each recording, especially since 124R removed the 2TB limit on my 3TB drive (suddenly I have nearly a whole GB to waste). The real problem is that the developers haven’t provided us with a choice. One little setting, and we could have it both ways. If the storage device is tiny, set it to be frugal.

Of course, we wouldn’t normally need padding if the broadcasters were all on the same atomic clock, and didn’t foolishly attempt to dissuade us from making recordings by overlapping the half hour marks with short parts of the Show.
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post #9260 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
this is the last I'll "infect" your thread with my posts.
Thanks.
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post #9261 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 06:51 AM
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Both SkyNews and BBC News linear channels are down. The message says the provider has discontinued their public feed. Both still come in on my Roku. Is linear dead?
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post #9262 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 06:54 AM
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Both SkyNews and BBC News linear channels are down. The message says the provider has discontinued their public feed. Both still come in on my Roku. Is linear dead?
Was it ever really alive? The "channels" they had were for the most part useless, and the image quality on many really sucked.

They should go back to refining the DVR and quit wasting time and money on the linear thing.

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post #9263 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
Yep, I live in Mid-Michigan, which is 'under' the (Mackinac) bridge, so Yoopers call us "Trolls"

Also, just because I posted that I finally went with a Tivo as a follow-up to my posts way back towards the beginning of this huge thread, doesn't make me an internet troll. I genuinely did research (for over a year!) as to what dvr would be best for my situation (wife that's EXTREMELY technophobe), and the Tivo just was it, especially at their Summer sale price.

Have at it, I had to reply to this last post attempting to label me as a troll, but this is the last I'll "infect" your thread with my posts.
Hey, I would have gone with the Roamio OTA with a lifetime subscription on the sale they had a while ago over the DVR+ had I not already bought the DVR+. Luckily we haven't actually kicked Dish to the curb yet, and the DVR+ is the second TV device, so I don't feel like I wasted my money. If Dish ever truly makes us give up our $52 subscription we'll use a Roamio or whatever is out there that addresses some of the limitations of the DVR+. Or the DVR+ if they fix some of the issues. (We have been with Dish since the beginning, a few months after they launched their first satellite in 1996).
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post #9264 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bierdude View Post
Both SkyNews and BBC News linear channels are down. The message says the provider has discontinued their public feed. Both still come in on my Roku. Is linear dead?

I emailed them as well as asking them on their facebook page with no response. I take their no response meaning Linear is dead. No big loss. They were dumb to go down that path to begin with. Work on Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Plex and they would make the DVR+ really appeal more to cord cutters.
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post #9265 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
It also doesn't make sense to write the same data to multiple files, since that's a waste of space. You could end up wasting quite a bit of HDD space if you're one of those people who pads every recording by 5 minutes on both ends and also records multiple weeks' worth of programming at once without watching or deleting anything.
The overwhelming majority of the "waste" in that scenario is in the shows that are recorded but not watched, not in the padding Besides, I think most would find 5 minutes of pre-padding absurdly long, especially with no GoTo to quickly bypass it. (I could see 5 minutes of post-padding in case a show, such as a sporting event, runs long.)

But to your point, with the DVR+, we actually waste more space because it can't write the same data twice! That's because, using event timers, I (and I think most folks) set 1 or at most 2 minutes of padding to avoid cutting of the start or end of a show. But since we can't overlap, we have to set up manual timers, which require at least 5 minutes of padding if we want any padding at all. So it's either:

  • What we want to do: two overlapping event recordings with 4-8 minutes of total padding, 2-4 minutes of which would be redundant (same data recorded twice); or
  • What we actually have to do: one manual timer with at least 10 minutes of padding (5 at the start and 5 at the end)

Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
I recall doing max length recordings [12 hrs] I did see in "bookmark" metafiles separate sections of each show; so pressing Info button during play of the big files would give you proper description and rating to execute parent control rules
That's a very interesting point! There's a need to enforce parental controls when making manual recordings that span multiple shows. The ratings data is of course part of the broadcast station's transport stream, but the DVR+ writes it to a separate metadata file instead of the .ts file, and it saves the PSIP descriptions along with it! I wonder if pachinko's DVR+ lister could be enhanced somehow to use that info to identify each of various events within a multiple-event recording, and apply, say, the proper ffmpeg parameters to copy each event separately if desired, perhaps even including a user-specified amount of padding? That could take some of the "sting" out of having to set up manual timers to record back-to-back events
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post #9266 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
It also doesn't make sense to write the same data to multiple files, since that's a waste of space. You could end up wasting quite a bit of HDD space if you're one of those people who pads every recording by 5 minutes on both ends and also records multiple weeks' worth of programming at once without watching or deleting anything. My take on what should happen is that the DVR should realise that there are two back-to-back recordings and immediately stop recording 1 and start recording 2 without losing any footage in between file 1 and file 2. That's just hard to do with keyframe intervals being what they are, so you usually end up with a gap of at least a few seconds when you try to do that. Recording a duplicate grace period of one GOP would solve that problem while wasting minimal space, though (i.e. prepending the last GOP of file 1 to file 2 to ensure that no footage was lost while also eliminating the wasted space of including padding four times instead of two times).
Many programmers are lazy and just say th heck with it and take the easy way out and stop the current recording and start a new back to back recording file neglecting the motentially missed packets in between file close and file open......
Really how hard is it to mark in the ring buffer the start and end packets and even pad both a few GOP's to ensure complete recorded files are made? Not very hard.
Anyhow in these days of gargantuan hard drives I prefer a couple minutes padding in seperate files rather than a single ts file with pointers stored in proprietary metadata/database to discriminate between different recordings.
To each their own even if a few megabytes or even gigabytes of duplicate data is "wasted".
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post #9267 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 01:13 PM
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Both SkyNews and BBC News linear channels are down. The message says the provider has discontinued their public feed. Both still come in on my Roku.
Obviously their "public" feed is still alive and well; what's been discontinued, presumably, is their private feed to CM! I've always been able to stream FSTV (one of CM's linear "offerings") on the Internet; but AFAIK it's never worked on the DVR+.

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I emailed them as well as asking them on their Facebook page with no response. I take their no response meaning Linear is dead. No big loss. They were dumb to go down that path to begin with. Work on Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Plex and they would make the DVR+ really appeal more to cord cutters.
The idea wasn't bad, but they botched the implementation horribly. No recording, no time-shifting, no EPG or Animal Planet as implied by their pre-release "demo," meant no viewers to speak of; and now the providers are, not surprisingly, seeing the low ratings and pulling out. It's not dead yet but it's clearly in a death spiral and I doubt CM will try to save it.
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post #9268 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 03:10 PM
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Just another brainless change (or failure to change what needed changing) by E*/CM! Of course I sometimes want to turn off the DVR but not the TV!!!
Stupid, stupid, stupid.....
That's pretty damn lame. Can't imagine what was running thru whatever designer's head when (s)he thought up that little gem.

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post #9269 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 03:48 PM
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The idea wasn't bad, but they botched the implementation horribly. No recording, no time-shifting, no EPG or Animal Planet as implied by their pre-release "demo," meant no viewers to speak of;
Even less viewers than they might have had due to some people disliking the update so much they went to the trouble to block the update site. I was interested in the "linear" channels, but not enough to cripple my DVR+ to see them.

I read about some of what they've done and have to wonder just what they were thinking?

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and now the providers are, not surprisingly, seeing the low ratings and pulling out. It's not dead yet but it's clearly in a death spiral and I doubt CM will try to save it.
It's done. Stick a fork in it?

Jim
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post #9270 of 16757 Old 08-08-2015, 04:43 PM
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I recall doing max length recordings [12 hrs] I did see in "bookmark" metafiles separate sections of each show; so pressing Info button during play of the big files would give you proper description and rating to execute parent control rules
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That's a very interesting point! There's a need to enforce parental controls when making manual recordings that span multiple shows. The ratings data is of course part of the broadcast station's transport stream, but the DVR+ writes it to a separate metadata file instead of the .ts file, and it saves the PSIP descriptions along with it! I wonder if pachinko's DVR+ lister could be enhanced somehow to use that info to identify each of various events within a multiple-event recording, and apply, say, the proper ffmpeg parameters to copy each event separately if desired, perhaps even including a user-specified amount of padding? That could take some of the "sting" out of having to set up manual timers to record back-to-back events
Attached is a zip file containing the record_event_index file and Strm0003, log, tsf, and met files for a manually scheduled recording on the DVR+ (version 124R) that captured three 1/2 hour SD shows in a single recording. It was recorded today, 8/8/2015 from COZI, WHNO-D2. No starting or ending padding was specified.

The log file contains some ACSII information on all 3 shows, but will require deciphering the rest of the data.

The three shows are:

1. The Dick Van Dyke Show, started at 4:00PM central, 1/2 hour.

2. The Dick Van Dyke Show, started at 4:30PM central, 1/2 hour.

3. COZI 30-Minute Special, Lucille Ball, started at 5:00PM central, 1/2 hour.

For whatever it's worth, the file size of Strm0003.ts is 2,539,799,348 bytes.

Also attached is a pic of the Rovi Guide for the manual recording, and a screenshot of what DVR+ Lister acquires from the REI file. Note the start time is 00:00, for some reason, instead of 16:00. I don't know yet if that's due to a bug in DVR+ Lister, or if the time stamp is handled differently in a manually scheduled recording.

Edit: I’ve confirmed that manually scheduled recordings do NOT populate the positions in the REI file for the aired time (they are always 00 and 00). However, the positions for the actual start time are populated correctly. DVR+ Lister currently uses the aired time, not the actual start time because aired time matches the Rovi Guide data, and is human friendly. That might have to change.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Pic of Rovi Guide showing these 3 shows as one recording.jpg
Views:	116
Size:	78.4 KB
ID:	876354   Click image for larger version

Name:	The Manual Recording in DVR+ Lister.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	39.2 KB
ID:	876362  
Attached Files
File Type: zip _REI, Log, Tsf and Met files for Strm0003.zip (49.9 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by pachinko; 08-08-2015 at 10:02 PM. Reason: To confirm my hypothesis about the aired time
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