Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 333 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9961 of 16704 Old 11-22-2015, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
Which means it would be one of the easiest fixes possible when it comes to programming: Add 3 more 9's to the value already there, by selecting, copying and pasting.
Perhaps you missed a discussion about the magic number [999] - it's defined by max size of REI (meta info) file and its RAM allocation.
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post #9962 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 12:08 AM
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I may faint: P Smith actually re-posted some useful information instead of passive aggressively telling somebody to search the thread for the answer, because it's contained somewhere in the last ~10 000 posts.
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post #9963 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
I may faint: P Smith actually re-posted some useful information instead of passive aggressively telling somebody to search the thread for the answer, because it's contained somewhere in the last ~10 000 posts.
Well, would you think why the count so high ? And one of that reason is re-posting same info gain and again and again ...
I would offer to use search by members and newbies extensively and do master your searching skills in creating relevant expressions and using an array of synonymous words (instead of stick with own vocabulary and getting no results).

PS. Back to the magic number [999] - DVR+ owners (I think ) should be _very_ appreciate of it, because DTVPAL users had it set to 600 !

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post #9964 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by yo-mama View Post
Wow 999 is the limit ?? I just did a quick check and I am approaching that number, so I probably had that many prior to deleting some of them. What is the purpose of having a 2tb HD if ya cant fill it up then.....Is this something that CM is going to fix
IIRC the DTVPal (in some ways the DVR+ predecessor) has a limit of 600 recordings, but it's also limited to 1 TB. Since CM sells a 3 TB drive specifically for the DVR+ (and with firmware version 124R, can actually use it all), you'd think they would've increased the recordings limit to at least 1800. I'd like to see at least 3000 since HDDs will surely keep getting bigger.

They'll "probably" fix it "eventually." We seem to be getting about one new firmware update each year, so maybe next summer

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Perhaps you missed a discussion about the magic number [999] - it's defined by max size of REI (meta info) file and its RAM allocation.
Yes, increasing it to a million would make the index file huge and slow down many DVR+ functions way too much. They could probably boost it to a few thousand without too much trouble, though. My only concern is whether they would require a reformat of the HDD to get the new, larger index (as is the case with their previous fix for 3 TB drives).
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post #9965 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post
With the BF sale prices being low, and total silence from CM on future updates, I wouldn't be surprised to see them abandon this unit and offer a newer generation DVR by mid-year....
Well, since last Christmas-season sale was even better... are you just trolling?
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post #9966 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by RTPVid View Post
are you just trolling?
No, I have been hoping for a long time for CM to make the ultimate DVR, one that encompassed all the features of the best units available, past and present.

I have been critical all along about many of the deficiencies of this DVR+ compared to previous units of theirs and other manufacturers. Had the DTVPalDVR not lost the TVGOS service, I never would have bought the new DVR+ units. As a result, I have 3 of my 5 old units still in use, along with 2 of the DVR+s.

When it was revealed that the platform on which the DVR+ was built was not fully capable of becoming the ultimate DVR, CM told me that this was just their first attempt at a DVR built on their specs, and that they had learned a lot from the feedback of early adopters (of which I was one). They told me to be patient, that new models would be coming in the future speced out to address some of the issues of greater complaints. From everything they've done publicly so far, it appears they are still trying to nurse more features into this box, but only in the direction of LinearTV, not towards DVR capabilities and performance. Of course the won't say they have a better model coming, they would lose current sales while people wait for it. So I believe that their will be a next generation DVR from CM, and I hope that launch will be sooner rather than later. It's time for them to abandon this dead-end machine and get the next one out.
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post #9967 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post
... CM told me that this was just their first attempt at a DVR built on their specs, and that they had learned a lot from the feedback of early adopters (of which I was one). ...
Really ? Now you know the DVR was just an adaptation of original UK HDT-610R to US market. So ? While its predessor running without major hiccups, the thread is a collection of K77 problems what e* (not CM !) cannot fix... CM specs - gimme a break !
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post #9968 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
Really ? Now you know the DVR was just an adaptation of original UK HDT-610R to US market. So ? While its predessor running without major hiccups, the thread is a collection of K77 problems what e* (not CM !) cannot fix... CM specs - gimme a break !
Yes, I know the origin of the unit as I have been on this forum before the unit was even available. I should have said they ordered it "modified to their specs" as far as needs and functions for the US market.

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post #9969 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 09:02 AM
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Very lame specs by the adaptation I would say - first, the "FreeView+" become "DVR+", then it lost internal HDD, eventually WW DVB-T2 tuner has been replaced to 8VSB US domestic type ...
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post #9970 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 10:44 AM
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Exclamation DVR+ limits

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Originally Posted by yo-mama View Post
Curious as to how accurate the USED % of the hard drive indicator is...today I could not record any programs until I deleted some shows even tho it showed 39% used. Said I had reached my maximum number of programs or something to that effect. The red light would come on for a second and then stop recording and it showed "Failed" under record status. Should it not show some error if hard drive is full? First time I have had this issue since I got my DVR+ a few months ago.
I had not known about that '999' limit, but using a one TB HD I doubt that I will bump up into that.

Another limit that I have encountered (with my HD less that half-full) is their 'series' limit of 54 or 56. It will not allow you to schedule any more recordings until you delete some of your "Series Options" (Menu>DVR>). They are listed in alphabetical order, first showing the "All" type and then on to the "New" but each line counts as one towards your limit. "OK" menu offers a delete for each line.

Spoiler!

Art

Last edited by pilotart; 11-23-2015 at 10:47 AM.
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post #9971 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by yo-mama View Post
Wow 999 is the limit ?? I just did a quick check and I am approaching that number, so I probably had that many prior to deleting some of them. What is the purpose of having a 2tb HD if ya cant fill it up then.....Is this something that CM is going to fix

I think it is better to have several 500GB's or 1TB's and hot swap. Just my 2 cents.
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post #9972 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 02:55 PM
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No, I have been hoping for a long time for CM to make the ultimate DVR, one that encompassed all the features of the best units available, past and present.
LOL...Yeah, I've been hoping truck manufacturers would do that for about 20 years now. Sometimes I get the feeling that no one wants to create the ultimate product, because after that there is no place to go but down.
@P Smith - I have to admit, I've never heard of the 999 limit before you mentioned it. But to me it sounds like something that could be changed, sort of like the 8 character file name restriction that once enslaved mankind.
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post #9973 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 03:07 PM
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@artisticimaging ^^^^I have several One TB Drives (Samsung 4K Movie Packs), this influenced my decision to purchase the DVR+ 16-GB and I'm so glad I did.

When You change Hard Drives, does it maintain your recording schedules?

This would be an advantage for sure, but your 54 series limitation would still be in effect. Good housekeeping takes care of that limit easily compared to the 999 limit.
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post #9974 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pilotart View Post
@artisticimaging ^^^^I have several
When You change Hard Drives, does it maintain your recording schedules?

This would be an advantage for sure, but your 54 series limitation would still be in effect. Good housekeeping takes care of that limit easily compared to the 999 limit.
Art
Yes it keeps your recording schedules as I just swapped one out and all of them are intact. Too bad both USB ports cant be used at the same time for hard drives...or can they ??
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post #9975 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 05:32 PM
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@yo-mama ^^^^ You should be able to have two connected at the same time, however you would only be able to select one at a time to be active.

Unless there was a 'sleep' function on them, they would probably both be 'spinning' all the time, whether 'activated' or not, so it would be a wasteful connection.
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post #9976 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
LOL...Yeah, I've been hoping truck manufacturers would do that for about 20 years now. Sometimes I get the feeling that no one wants to create the ultimate product, because after that there is no place to go but down.
@P Smith - I have to admit, I've never heard of the 999 limit before you mentioned it. But to me it sounds like something that could be changed, sort of like the 8 character file name restriction that once enslaved mankind.
It was mentioned last year in Jan here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdt...l#post30707265 according a result of Search the "999" letters.
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post #9977 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
...
Yes, increasing it to a million would make the index file huge and slow down many DVR+ functions way too much. They could probably boost it to a few thousand without too much trouble, though.
I don’t think it would slow down the DVR+ much at all. IMHO, the developers of the DVR+ could easily increase the maximum number of recordings by a factor of 10, to 9999, with little effect upon the speed of the unit, and still support the 8 character file naming convention (e.g. Strm270F.ts). While not a real world test, I just ran a test using an REI file containing 999 recordings, just to see how long it takes to read the file, and then rewrite the file. Here’s the result:

Read 868 Bytes at a time (the number of bytes per recording): 0.0169 seconds for the entire file.

Rewrite the entire REI file (868,024 Bytes): 0.0036 seconds.

This demonstrates that it takes very little time for 999 recordings. Just multiply by 10 for 9999 recordings and it’s still only 0.169 seconds. And keep in mind that I used AutoIt for this test, which is MUCH slower that it would be using other languages.

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...
My only concern is whether they would require a reformat of the HDD to get the new, larger index (as is the case with their previous fix for 3 TB drives).
The size of the REI file is not associated with the size of the partition, so I see no reason to reformat the HDD to support a larger number of recordings.
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post #9978 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 10:27 PM
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While 10x increase size of REI to ~10 MB total [to 9999 records] doesn't sounds as big deal, we don't know the DVR's RAM mapping; don't forget - it's not that OS what using HDD for system files, it's embedded FW system, what would function without HDD,so everything it should keep in RAM.
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post #9979 of 16704 Old 11-23-2015, 10:40 PM
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It was mentioned last year in Jan here https://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdt...l#post30707265 according a result of Search the "999" letters.
Yikes! I can dig the importance of searching a thread for some things. But I gotta say that it would literally be easier to find a needle in a haystack than to find that post on page 235 of a 333 page thread made up of almost 10,000 posts. After all, I do have a pretty large drag magnet laying around somewhere. But that also raises another question for me. I'm not trying to open a big can of worms, but why is this a Channel Master DVR+ Owners thread, and not a Channel Master DVR+ Owners forum? In looking at the HDTV Recorders forum it seems that there are several threads that could/should merit their own forum, based on both number of views and number of posts. And that's before touching the breadth and scope of information contained in each thread.
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post #9980 of 16704 Old 11-24-2015, 03:36 AM
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Good idea - I'm for it; plus I would split the thread for many dedicated to different aspects of the DVR+ functioning under new DVR+ forum.
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post #9981 of 16704 Old 11-24-2015, 06:19 AM
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I suggest that a mod open a new forum/thread called The Official AVS Channel Master DTV+ DVR Topic! modeled after the famous forum/thread called The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic!. That thread has twice as many posts, but is much more useful as everything important is copied to the very first post so a new owner can come up to speed very quickly. At the same time, it's very easy to join current discussion by going to the last post.

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Yikes! I can dig the importance of searching a thread for some things. But I gotta say that it would literally be easier to find a needle in a haystack than to find that post on page 235 of a 333 page thread made up of almost 10,000 posts. After all, I do have a pretty large drag magnet laying around somewhere. But that also raises another question for me. I'm not trying to open a big can of worms, but why is this a Channel Master DVR+ Owners thread, and not a Channel Master DVR+ Owners forum? In looking at the HDTV Recorders forum it seems that there are several threads that could/should merit their own forum, based on both number of views and number of posts. And that's before touching the breadth and scope of information contained in each thread.
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post #9982 of 16704 Old 11-24-2015, 06:47 AM
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Sony DHG is still #1 . Not bad. I have four. Anybody want one? Oh yeah, Rovi killed it.

It might hold the record for most posts in one day also: 349.
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post #9983 of 16704 Old 11-24-2015, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pachinko View Post
I don’t think it would slow down the DVR+ much at all. IMHO, the developers of the DVR+ could easily increase the maximum number of recordings by a factor of 10, to 9999, with little effect upon the speed of the unit, and still support the 8 character file naming convention (e.g. Strm270F.ts). While not a real world test, I just ran a test using an REI file containing 999 recordings, just to see how long it takes to read the file, and then rewrite the file. Here’s the result:

Read 868 Bytes at a time (the number of bytes per recording): 0.0169 seconds for the entire file.

Rewrite the entire REI file (868,024 Bytes): 0.0036 seconds.

This demonstrates that it takes very little time for 999 recordings. Just multiply by 10 for 9999 recordings and it’s still only 0.169 seconds. And keep in mind that I used AutoIt for this test, which is MUCH slower that it would be using other languages.
The file naming convention would impose a limit of 65,535 (hex FFFF) recordings, which I'd think would be plenty for the foreseeable future (but still far short of the 999999 suggested by the OP). That would make the file 54.25 MB, which would still fit easily in the first (roughly 1GB) partition. OTOH, the read time would exceed one second, which could be annoying. Therefore, I'd probably go with a smaller limit; maybe around 8000 recordings. That would surely be more than enough, and any slowdown would be unnoticeable.

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The size of the REI file is not associated with the size of the partition, so I see no reason to reformat the HDD to support a larger number of recordings.
I don't either, but that doesn't mean E* would do it!

It's probably really simple to include some code to check for the old file size and, if found, copy everything into a new file with a larger size and number of recordings. But it would take some code, and I could see E* taking the lazy way out and saying, "we'll allocate the index file when we format the drive and be done with it."
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post #9984 of 16704 Old 11-24-2015, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
While 10x increase size of REI to ~10 MB total [to 9999 records] doesn't sounds as big deal, we don't know the DVR's RAM mapping; don't forget - it's not that OS what using HDD for system files, it's embedded FW system, what would function without HDD,so everything it should keep in RAM.
That is a good point. If the index becomes too large to fit in the DVR+'s RAM, the FW would have to be rewritten to read it in smaller chunks, rather than reading the whole file into RAM and manipulating it there. That could slow things down much more than simply scaling up the time to read the existing 999-recording index would suggest.

Still, I'm sure some expansion of the limit is possible without major FW surgery, and since we're now seeing folks hit the limit, any nontrivial increase would be appreciated.
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post #9985 of 16704 Old 11-24-2015, 12:48 PM
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Well I sent an email to CM to let them know of my displeasure with the 999 recording limit, and after their response I do not feel this is a priority to find a remedy. Here is their response....

Hello,
I'm sorry to hear that you're unsatisfied with this limit of recordings. I can forward this e-mail to our engineers for future consideration. Our return policy is thirty days for this product.
Kind Regards,
Jordan Cullimore
Channel Master Support
[email protected]
877-746-7261



Really ? Who would know within the 30 day return time frame that they limit you to 999 program events ?

I think this should be in their FAQ on why a program wont record...but it is not mentioned anywhere that I can find, and one can only find this type of info when going to forums like this one. The HD size limitations/recommendations and the 999 recording limit should be in their overall description of their products. IF the hard drive % used is anywhere accurate, then my 2tb HD isnt even half full with it showing 39%. Does anyone know if TIVO has a limit on how many recordings can be made ? If there are CM people that frequent this board I would like to hear their input in this issue.
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post #9986 of 16704 Old 11-24-2015, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pachinko View Post
I don’t think it would slow down the DVR+ much at all. IMHO, the developers of the DVR+ could easily increase the maximum number of recordings by a factor of 10, to 9999, with little effect upon the speed of the unit, and still support the 8 character file naming convention (e.g. Strm270F.ts). While not a real world test, I just ran a test using an REI file containing 999 recordings, just to see how long it takes to read the file, and then rewrite the file.
Here is a real world test:
9999 files recorded... some 30 minutes long, some 60 minutes long.
For sake of argument lets say on average 45 minutes.

9999 files X 45 minutes = 449,995 minutes
449,995 minutes = 7,499 hours at 8 hours a day watching TV = 937 days.. IF you don't record any more..
Maybe you can put them in your will for your kids to watch?
Someone has a lot more time than I do..LOL

One of my fears when I moved my wife from the VCR to the DVR+ was that she would save everything, as she has a stack of VCR tapes she will "watch someday".. But bless her heart, her weekly goal is to have her DVR+ at 1% full.

Just thought I would ask.. who has that much time??
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post #9987 of 16704 Old 11-24-2015, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yo-mama View Post
Well I sent an email to CM to let them know of my displeasure with the 999 recording limit, and after their response I do not feel this is a priority to find a remedy. Here is their response....

Hello,
I'm sorry to hear that you're unsatisfied with this limit of recordings. I can forward this e-mail to our engineers for future consideration. Our return policy is thirty days for this product.
Kind Regards,
Jordan Cullimore
Channel Master Support
[email protected]
877-746-7261


Really ? Who would know within the 30 day return time frame that they limit you to 999 program events ?

I think this should be in their FAQ on why a program wont record...but it is not mentioned anywhere that I can find, and one can only find this type of info when going to forums like this one. The HD size limitations/recommendations and the 999 recording limit should be in their overall description of their products. IF the hard drive % used is anywhere accurate, then my 2tb HD isnt even half full with it showing 39%. Does anyone know if TIVO has a limit on how many recordings can be made ? If there are CM people that frequent this board I would like to hear their input in this issue.
I agree, unless you've done a great deal of research before purchasing, you'd likely not discover the 999 limit on your own in 30 days, or some of the other limitations that CM doesn't mention anywhere.

If there are any CM or E* representatives monitoring any thread on the DVR+, they have not made themselves known. However, you can be sure that they monitor their facebook page, and sometimes respond. However, if they really don't like a complaint (or even simply bringing a fact to light), they have been known to delete all post on the issue.
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post #9988 of 16704 Old 11-24-2015, 01:42 PM
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I actually did post to CM's Facebook page...but no response yet.
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post #9989 of 16704 Old 11-24-2015, 04:51 PM
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Well, for the time being anyway, we're stuck with 999 recordings on one HDD. That's actually not that terrible. Assuming most of the recordings are 30 minutes, that's 500 hours; so it's safe to assume that you're recording at least some shows for archival purposes. So if you're running into this limit, you could do one or both of the following:

  1. Check your recording schedule for back-to-back recordings on the same channel, and replace them with manual recordings covering both shows (especially if the shows are back-to-back episodes of the same program). Advantage: this will also eliminate recordings with a few seconds cut off at the start or end of a show (due to the DVR+ clock not being exactly in sync with the network or station clock).
  2. Buy a second archive HDD, and periodically use DVR+ Lister to copy your oldest recordings to it. Then hook your original HDD back up to the DVR+ and delete the recordings you've just archived. Advantage: on the archive HDD you can organize your recordings any way you like: e.g., with folders for each show, subfolders for each season, etc. You'll also be able to see any times you've recorded the same show episode more than once, and can delete one of the duplicates and save even more storage.

If you prefer not to use a PC to play the archived recordings, you could buy a cheap Homeworx or iView to use as a media player. (It can also serve as a low-end "overflow" DVR and record directly to the archive HDD.) You'd only need the PC for periodic DVR+ Lister use.
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post #9990 of 16704 Old 11-24-2015, 06:07 PM
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Dummy recording update

I did some playing around with the dummy recordings I set up, so here's an update. I took the advice I received here and changed the recording time from 15 minutes to the minimum time of 5 minutes. Turns out that is just as effective as the 15 minute recordings I had. I see two distinct advantages here. One is that the 1 hour window I set aside for dummy recordings can now accommodate more channels in the array. The second is that if I choose, I can spread the existing array of dummy recordings out over the hour, leaving one of the tuners open for a desired program recording, or just to watch a program I don't want to record. I like this because 95% of the time when I watch TV I use the DVR+ as the tuner, rather than the built in tuner on the TV.

One other change I made was to change the naming convention of the dummy programs. Where previously I was using "DUMMYxx", where "xx" indicated the channel being recorded, I have now simplified it to naming all the recordings "ZZZ". That fulfills the minimum 3 character requirement of the DVR+, and all of the recordings from both the morning and evening schedule are dumped into the same folder. This makes for very easy folder deleting to get rid of the whole batch of dummy recordings.

I also found a workaround for something minor, but something that torques my hiney just the same. When watching a recorded program I sometimes hit pause to get a closer look at the screen--close calls in football, closeup of a document in a movie or TV show, etc. Frequently, the progress bar sits right on top of what I am trying to look at. I found that after I pause a recording, I can press the Audio button in the lower right corner of the remote twice--once to activate it, once to turn it off. The progress bar then disappears and the screen is clear. The progress bar does reappear after the recording resumes playback. BTW, doing that after the recording resumes also kills the progress bar immediately, eliminating the 5-7 seconds it would otherwise stay on the screen.
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