Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 480 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14371 of 16896 Old 06-08-2017, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
On manual time, the DTVPal suffered from this clock drift too - IIRC it gained about 8 seconds/day or about a minute/week. Sad to hear E* still can't make a DVR with an internal clock even as accurate as a Timex wristwatch (edit) although it sounds like the DVR+ clock is slow while the Pal clock was usually fast.
It boggles my mind that the clock on my stove and 20 year old VCR can keep near perfect time for months on end, yet my DVR+ and Philips DVDR loses or gains almost a minute per week respectively. In this wondrous age of computers you would think that accurate time keeping would be one of the simpler things to have been mastered.
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post #14372 of 16896 Old 06-09-2017, 12:27 AM
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those devices using separate RT/date clock chip with own compensatory circuits;
today DVR have just SW timer/calendar based on counting ticks from local common oscillator
it's much cheaper and basically provide correct data if the device could periodically sync it via Internet or broadcast time packets
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post #14373 of 16896 Old 06-09-2017, 07:54 AM
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post #14374 of 16896 Old 06-09-2017, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
It boggles my mind that the clock on my stove and 20 year old VCR can keep near perfect time for months on end, yet my DVR+ and Philips DVDR loses or gains almost a minute per week respectively. In this wondrous age of computers you would think that accurate time keeping would be one of the simpler things to have been mastered.
The old clocks (and your stove clock may even be mechanical if it's old enough) keep time via the 60Hz frequency of your power lines, and most power companies periodically adjust their frequency slightly so, over the long term, it will remain quite accurate.

It's a shame that our DVRs don't use a similar technology, but as P Smith said, they can probably save 2 bucks per unit by running the DVR from a cheap, uncalibrated crystal oscillator and just relying on periodically syncing to a more reliable time source (i.e., Internet or PSIP average).

I bet the ability to set the clock manually was mostly an afterthought. Not that many folks use it, so not much effort went into ensuring reasonable accuracy for that method.
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post #14375 of 16896 Old 06-10-2017, 07:03 PM
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Spoiler!


Thanks, all. I may dare to set it back to auto, but unless something has changed recently among the PSIP channels, I don't see how it'll be any more accurate now. I'm still using 132R, by the way.

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post #14376 of 16896 Old 06-10-2017, 07:11 PM
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Thumbs down FW Upgrade Nagging...and WORSE

Speaking of 132R, my DVR recently infuriated me by insisting on installing the upgrade, which was blocked. It's bad enough that it still occasionally (nay, frequently) offers it, even though I've repeatedly rejected it; but when it INSISTS and prevents me using the DVR at all -- even forcing me to pull the plug on it -- then it's going too far!

What can I do about this, besides accepting the upgrade? Thanks.

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post #14377 of 16896 Old 06-10-2017, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Wow; that must be the quickest beta test in history. I still have them on my guide, but none of them work any longer. Yesterday they were all working.
I just rechecked, and ESPN and AMC betas on CMTV are working again today. Hallmark is still broken though.
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post #14378 of 16896 Old 06-10-2017, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SirCrow View Post
Speaking of 132R, my DVR recently infuriated me by insisting on installing the upgrade, which was blocked. It's bad enough that it still occasionally (nay, frequently) offers it, even though I've repeatedly rejected it; but when it INSISTS and prevents me using the DVR at all -- even forcing me to pull the plug on it -- then it's going too far!

What can I do about this, besides accepting the upgrade? Thanks.
If address tr50.dishaccess.tv is blocked from your DVR+, the update nag should not appear. Use your Internet Browser to try to access tr50.dishaccess.tv. If the address is NOT blocked, the browser will display the message 'You are not supposed to be here'.

If the browser is blocked, than you should verify that the DVR+ itself is truly blocked, and the only way to do that is to use the DVR+ menu system to check for a Software Update (Menu, Settings, Technical Information, Software Updates, Check for Download). If properly blocked, the DVR+ should fail to make the connection and not offer an update! If it does find an update, or indicates that the latest is already loaded, then the tr50.dishaccess.tv address is NOT blocked from the DVR+. Either you've done something wrong, added the block in the wrong place or on the wrong router, or as some have reported, the router simply doesn't support address blocking.

I don't recall testing this in 132R, but my router is blocking access from 134R. However, if you've been running 132R for a long time, and it's just started nagging, then something likely has changed recently in your router to affect the block.

Of course, once the nagging starts, the DVR+ will eventually attempt to install the update without your permission. My experiments show that if the update is interfered with by unplugging the power while the download is in progress, when power is restored the update will have been prevented, with no ill effects, and the nag will go away for a time but will eventually return. If you cannot block the address, the only way to prevent updates is to disconnect from the Internet, which of course will affect the Rovi Guide.
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post #14379 of 16896 Old 06-10-2017, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCrow View Post
Speaking of 132R, my DVR recently infuriated me by insisting on installing the upgrade, which was blocked. It's bad enough that it still occasionally (nay, frequently) offers it, even though I've repeatedly rejected it; but when it INSISTS and prevents me using the DVR at all -- even forcing me to pull the plug on it -- then it's going too far!

What can I do about this, besides accepting the upgrade? Thanks.
Seems to me, dish finally found a way to stream FW through OTA; the provision does exist - it's just a matter of making a deal with major networks or/and with stations to start broadcasting the FW.
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post #14380 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 05:50 AM
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Test for DVR+ Updates via OTA broadcast

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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
Seems to me, dish finally found a way to stream FW through OTA; the provision does exist - it's just a matter of making a deal with major networks or/and with stations to start broadcasting the FW.

Hmmm... I'd bet against that theory because it would open a can of worms if a network was to do that, as others would want the same deal, plus there are far too many broadcasters to make it practical if that was necessary. But lets test it! I just installed 132R, have tr50.dishaccess.tv blocked in the router, used the DVR+ menu to check for an update and got Unable to download, unknown error. Now I'll have to wait to see if the FW update nag appears via OTA, but of course that can take a couple of weeks.

As a side note, since I have tr50.dishaccess.tv blocked, and the DVR+ gets an error trying to find 134R, that means that 132R only checks one web address for an update.

Progress Report (Stage 1):
I'll update the following report now and then for the next few weeks. If the DVR+ issues an update nag before that, even though the update web address is blocked, I'll finalize the report and make a new post to announce my surprise.

*** Day 14 gone, completing Stage 1 of this test. There were no signs of the DVR+ FW update nag via OTA, and 132R is still running. ***

Note: Stage 1 lasted 14 days without a sign of the DVR+ update nag window in version 132R while alias tr50.dishaccess.tv was blocked in the router. As such, I’ve decided to try to nudge things along by temporarily removing the address blockage until the DVR+ update nag screen makes an appearance. After that, I will reinstate the tr50.dishaccess.tv address block in the router. That way, the DVR+ will have at least been made aware of an update (just in case it is smart enough to remember), and perhaps provoke an attempt to acquire the update from the OTA broadcast stream (if that technology exists in 132R).

Progress Report (Stage 2):


1. After Stage 1, I began Stage 2 by temporarily unblocking alias tr50.dishaccess.tv in the router, and allowing the DVR+ Internet access. Six hours later the 1st update nag for 134R appeared. Keep in mind that 14 days passed in Stage 1 without a nag, and only 6 hours after allowing Internet access, the update nag appeared. Although the nag window had a Cancel button, I allowed the nag to time out and close itself, after which there was no download progress window. I waited 4 hours before restoring the address block in the router, just to demonstrate that the DVR+ does not download the update unless it's given permission, or until the last update nag (the one without a cancel button) which forces the update. Now it's back to again waiting to see if the update nag reappears even though Internet access to tr50.dishaccess.tv is blocked.

2. There appears to be a technology named UpdateTV, which provides software update services via OTA broadcasts over very limited PBS stations. Click HERE, HERE, and HERE for what little I know. Rabbitears reveals that this service does not exist in my geographic area, so my tests will be inconclusive unless the DVR+ uses some other similar technology. But keep in mind that there are no reports as of June 29, 2017 where a DVR+ owner states an update has occurred on a DVR+ while alias tr50.dishaccess.tv is blocked. That said, the rabbitears page was updated on June 26, 2017 to state the following, and that pretty much says it all!
Quote:
UpdateTV was a service carried on PBS stations which allowed software updates for devices such as TVs and converter boxes to be transmitted over the air. This list is now considered abandoned; most PBS stations have dropped the service.
.
3. *** Day 14 of 14 for Stage 2 has gone. There were no signs of the DVR+ FW update nag via OTA, and 132R is still running. ***



Conclusion:

While the technology to update the firmware of TV related equipment through OTA broadcasts exists (for example, UpdateTV by Qterics, or methods used by Dish Network on their own network), based upon my 28 day test, in my geographic location, the Channel Master DVR+ does NOT employ such technology, at least through July 10, 2017 running version 132R, with 134R being the latest version.

Since I am able to test only for my geographic location, there may be those who believe different results might occur in other locals, but keep in mind that there are no reports in this thread of anyone experiencing an update through any means when address tr50.dishaccess.tv is properly blocked in the router used by the DVR+. Anyone with evidence to the contrary, please make a report in this thread.

Another question that may come up is that 134R was released on 5/10/2016 (14 months ago), so maybe the update is no longer broadcast OTA. Well, that would never do since new purchases rarely come with the latest version. To be beneficial, the broadcast would have to continue at least until all of CM stocked units are flashed with the latest version. That will still not take care of purchased boxes that are not powered for long periods of time (for example, a vacation home or camper, or whatever reason you can imagine). So I’ll stick with my initial reaction that with an Internet connected device, updating via OTA broadcast is very impractical, and I suspect too costly and burdensome.

Note: Shortly after this test concluded, I unblocked address tr50.dishaccess.tv in the router to see how long it would take for the update nag to appear. It did so about 6 hours later. Interestingly that nag was very close to the same time of day as the period between Stage 1 and Stage 2. The next nag was 6 hours later. The DVR+ was put into Standby Mode until the next morning when another nag about 10AM. The next was 2 hours later, and it was the nag without the buttons, which meant it was the forced update nag. So, in less than 24 hours after unblocking tr50.dishaccess.tv, the DVR+ insisted upon an update, something that the speculated OTA update method did not do in 28 days.



Last edited by pachinko; 07-13-2017 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Update Progress Report (Stage 2)
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post #14381 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 06:35 AM
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I knew little bit of info for OTA updates by TR-50, knowing the K77 [DVR+] made by same dept, I can't discard the common knowledge-base and rules what are exist in all dish FW [sat DVRs, TR-50, etc] include the OTA model.
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post #14382 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 08:53 AM
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I went back to tivo. The dvr+ just couldn't get all the channels in. And my old tivo HD can.

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post #14383 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 10:27 AM
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I went back to tivo. The dvr+ just couldn't get all the channels in. And my old tivo HD can.

Suspend the sign in Tapatalk!
I would investigate your antenna output, most likely you does need to find proper one for the DVR+ and it will bring all channels
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post #14384 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 11:38 AM
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Seems to me, dish finally found a way to stream FW through OTA; the provision does exist - it's just a matter of making a deal with major networks or/and with stations to start broadcasting the FW.
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Hmmm... I'd bet against that theory because it would open a can of worms if a network was to do that, as others would want the same deal, plus there are far too many broadcasters to make it practical if that was necessary.
I don't disagree with the technical ability to do so. But if Dish/E* is doing this, it upends the theory that they are done providing support, i.e. firmware updates for the DVR+. In fact, it tends toward the theory that they are fully committed to supporting the DVR+ with firmware updates for the foreseeable future. If not, why would they care if you have the last update for a product that they are abandoning? For that reason I don't believe they are broadcasting mandatory updates. Also, wouldn't that require a firmware update to the DVR to make receiving a broadcast update possible?

Regarding the comment made by @pachinko that there are too many broadcasters to make it practical, think PSIP. If the DVR+ can receive PSIP data without actually being tuned to a channel, it can receive an update the same way. That means that only one major network has to sign a deal with Dish/E*.

Last edited by Greasemonkey; 06-11-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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post #14385 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 12:14 PM
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.... Also, wouldn't that require a firmware update to the DVR to make receiving a broadcast update possible?
...
Nope, it has two bootloaders, one of cold help restore corrupted FW from OTA mux. I don't have PID number for that, but analyzing a full mux could reveal it.
The puzzle could be solved pretty soon, when we will find how SirCrow DVR+ got the nag.
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post #14386 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 01:21 PM
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I just rechecked, and ESPN and AMC betas on CMTV are working again today. Hallmark is still broken though.
Not for long, at least not for me. As off noon Pacific time, they were not available, at least not on my DVR+.

Curious.
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post #14387 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 03:39 PM
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Can anyone please tell me as I cannot tell from the manufacturers web site, but does this or any other dvr have an HDMI input and have manual record settings ?

Basically I get dish network through a family member I rent from they supplied me with a receiver on their dish network account. So what I would like to do is find a dvr such as channelmaster or what not that I can run the dish network tv signal in to then set the dvr to manually record at certain times from the HDMI input source.

My dish network receiver has a manual timer so I can set timers up on it then at the time scheduled it will go to that certain channel at that scheduled time, so then I would like the channelmaster or what not to turn on and record the Hdmi input source at those same times.

So basically does channelmaster or any other ota dvr have an Hdmi input plug and have the ability to schedule manual recordings so I could record dish network off the standard dish non dvr receiver.

I would get a hopper 3 but my relative is out of contract with dish and does not want to sign another contract with them and getting a hopper 3 would require they sign up with a new 2 year contract.

Can anyone give any advice ?

Also if anyone knows does channelmaster work with sling tv ? As a last resort I could get sling if it works with channelmaster.

I tried playon and it just sucks on so many levels as I tried it with a free trial of Directv now.
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post #14388 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 03:59 PM
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Can anyone please tell me as I cannot tell from the manufacturers web site, but does this or any other dvr have an HDMI input and have manual record settings ?
No and yes, respectively. The only input on the DVR+ is an RF input and 2 USB ports, and the unit won't record anything but over the air television signals.
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post #14389 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 04:03 PM
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Nope, it has two bootloaders, one of cold help restore corrupted FW from OTA mux. I don't have PID number for that, but analyzing a full mux could reveal it.
The puzzle could be solved pretty soon, when we will find how SirCrow DVR+ got the nag.
It's still unlikely that they would be boosting updates via broadcast if they have abandoned further FW updates. The only reason they would do so is if they plan to continue to provide upgrades.
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post #14390 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 04:07 PM
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No and yes, respectively. The only input on the DVR+ is an RF input and 2 USB ports, and the unit won't record anything but over the air television signals.
Thank you for answering. So do you know of any other dvr that would record video and audio with a Hdmi input ?

I thought about a dvd recorder the ones that have a tuner and record tv to a dvd as they came out before the versions that record to a hard drive, but most I remember being low video quality. If you or anyone else knows of a good model of dvd recorder with tuner that has a Hdmi input I would appreciate the info.

Or does no one even make one ? If not if anyone has an idea of how I can record off dish network without being able to have a dish network dvr, it would be greatly appreciated.
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post #14391 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 05:22 PM
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... Also if anyone knows does channelmaster work with sling tv ? As a last resort I could get sling if it works with channelmaster....
The Channel Master DVR+ supports Sling TV, but it does NOT allow recording anything from Sling TV, or from any other Internet Streaming source (legal issues), so it's not the solution you're looking for. The DVR+ will record only OTA broadcasts.
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post #14392 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Roefastford View Post
Thank you for answering. So do you know of any other dvr that would record video and audio with a Hdmi input ?

If ... anyone has an idea of how I can record off dish network without being able to have a dish network dvr, it would be greatly appreciated.
An HDMI capture card (for a PC) would do what you want, but that's out of our area of expertise. I suspect you could find more detailed help in the Home Theater Computers section of AVSForum.

Another possibility would be an ATSC RF modulator, such as the Stellar Labs one described at this thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hdt...modulator.html. Unfortunately this modulator's output isn't compatible with the DVR+ (audio glitches), so you'd have to use a DVR other than the DVR+ (the Dish DTVPal works).

So it doesn't look like the DVR+ will be part of your solution, unless you drop Dish Network in favor of Sling and use a DVR+ for that. But even going that route you'd probably be better off with something like a Roku than the DVR+, unless you happen to want a decent OTA DVR that also works with Sling.
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post #14393 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
I just rechecked, and ESPN and AMC betas on CMTV are working again today. Hallmark is still broken though.
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Not for long, at least not for me. As off noon Pacific time, they were not available, at least not on my DVR+.

Curious.
Curious indeed. They're still working for me, but wizwor also said he didn't have them.

I wonder if CM has only pushed the betas out to a few subscribers, and I just happen to be one of the lucky ones?
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post #14394 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 07:01 PM
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It's still unlikely that they would be boosting updates via broadcast if they have abandoned further FW updates. The only reason they would do so is if they plan to continue to provide upgrades.
You're probably right, but (if they're doing this) there is one other possibility I thought of:

They may be looking to make more money from things like Sling and the new CMTV channels (once they're out of beta and presumably available to everyone for a fee), and so want to make sure every CMTV user has firmware that can receive those services.

OTOH, if you're disconnected from the Internet there's not much point, so it would only help CM with the handful of folks who have Internet-connected DVR+'s but who have blocked the updates.

So I'm probably wrong - I just thought I'd mention it anyway, though.

BTW, in DFW, KERA (PBS) used to provide this kind of service, but I can't find any area station doing it today.
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post #14395 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffreymakela View Post
I went back to tivo. The dvr+ just couldn't get all the channels in. And my old tivo HD can.
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I would investigate your antenna output, most likely you does need to find proper one for the DVR+ and it will bring all channels
That is true, but if he has a DVR that works with his current antenna, I can hardly blame him for just going with that instead of spending even more on a better antenna system.

(Of course if that T**o doesn't have lifetime, in a few months that antenna upgrade could probably pay for itself. Good antennas aren't that expensive.)
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post #14396 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
They may be looking to make more money from things like Sling and the new CMTV channels (once they're out of beta and presumably available to everyone for a fee), and so want to make sure every CMTV user has firmware that can receive those services.
That is something I don't doubt. But my sneaking (and depressing) suspicion is that CM is going to shift toward streaming boxes and the OTA DVR part of the business is going on the back burner, and will be kind of an afterthought part of their next iteration of the DVR+. They make money on the streaming long after you purchase your DVR+. But if you are like me and only use it for OTA reception and don't care about streaming the point of sale cash they get is the end of the line. I think they have a tech crush on the Apple business model, where buying the initial product is just the beginning of spending money on more Apple products and services.
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post #14397 of 16896 Old 06-11-2017, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
It's still unlikely that they would be boosting updates via broadcast if they have abandoned further FW updates. The only reason they would do so is if they plan to continue to provide upgrades.
They could making an act of "hospitality" for those DVR+ [regular] owners who have no Internet access from the DVR and "suffering" [by the company's opinion] from bugs in old version and making a preparation of mass updates to new FW to offer payTV (finally, as its smart card old technology has been embedded into old STB TR-40 and DVR TR-50).
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post #14398 of 16896 Old 06-12-2017, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
They could making an act of "hospitality" for those DVR+ [regular] owners who have no Internet access from the DVR and "suffering" [by the company's opinion] from bugs in old version and making a preparation of mass updates to new FW to offer payTV (finally, as its smart card old technology has been embedded into old STB TR-40 and DVR TR-50).
If they were really trying to fix existing bugs I would think that they would offer a downloadable and voluntary FW update first, force Internet connected DVR+ owners to upgrade second, and then go the broadcast route. My money is still on Dish washing their hands of any new FW updates for the DVR+ altogether, provided there is nothing in their contract with CM to make them continue to update FW. There is nothing in it for them when users watch free, broadcast television. And I would bet that in their erotic dreams the entire television broadcast spectrum is auctioned off to other services so that broadcast television disappears completely, and everyone who wants to watch any kind of television has to pay for it.
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post #14399 of 16896 Old 06-12-2017, 05:48 AM
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Probably they are waiting to roll out DVR++ with ATSC 3.0 tuner and software. Maybe even a combo 1.0 and 3.0 tuner. Probably sell it for $399.
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post #14400 of 16896 Old 06-12-2017, 07:04 AM
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Probably they are waiting to roll out DVR++ with ATSC 3.0 tuner and software. Maybe even a combo 1.0 and 3.0 tuner. Probably sell it for $399.
You're super optimist
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