Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 529 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15841 of 16904 Old 05-18-2018, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
How do you know when you are experiencing multipath issues? Over and under power are obvious, but identifying and improving multipath issues remains a mystery to me.
The most common symptoms connected with multipath issues seem to be good signal strength but poor and often wildly fluctuating signal quality.
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post #15842 of 16904 Old 05-18-2018, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SEMIJim View Post
Sometimes even with a "big, directional" outdoor antenna. The Samsung TV, which is supposed to have an above-average tuner, struggles, sometimes. The DVR+ is often a complete loss.

I'll be up on the roof, shortly, taking another shot it it. The last change seems to have made an improvement. Let's see it I can't improve it still more.
Criggs had a particularly pathological case. High-rise apartment with TV signals coming from all directions, so that many of them either had to come through the building or be picked up via a reflection. And then, to top it all off, the building installed low-E glass.

He tried CM's SMARTenna+ and it helped a little, but sometimes there's only so much you can do.
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post #15843 of 16904 Old 05-18-2018, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by danlshane View Post
My experience with the Stream+ and the DVR+ tells me that the twin tuners in the Stream+ are much better than the DVR+ at handling multipath issues, and their strength is only slightly less than the single native tuner in each of my LG TVs. I never get the pixelation and breakup I did with the DVR+, so I would say that the tuners are really pretty good. A strength meter in the Stream+ would be nice, though, so I could have some numbers to compare.
unfortunately the SL and SQ scales in each device are used different formula, it's not real RF Level [dBm] and SNR [dB], so we can't compare directly "some numbers", sorry
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post #15844 of 16904 Old 05-18-2018, 11:40 PM
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Exclamation Spectrum analyzer

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Originally Posted by SEMIJim View Post
....
Consider: I have long, extensive experience with radio. Used to "specialize" in antennas, transmission lines and propagation theory and practice. Designed and built my own antennas. ...
I'll be up on the roof, shortly, taking another shot it it. The last change seems to have made an improvement. Let's see it I can't improve it still more.
It's a shame when such pro doesn't have simple spectrum analyzer (say PSA-37D) to check signals, perhaps see jitters of some by a result of multipath, and make proper aiming
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post #15845 of 16904 Old 05-19-2018, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
It's a shame when such pro doesn't have simple spectrum analyzer (say PSA-37D) to check signals, perhaps see jitters of some by a result of multipath, and make proper aiming
Yeah, it is, but I'd have a hard time justifying the cost of a spectrum analyzer for this one problem. I suppose if I was still doing any radio hobbies it'd be another thing, but I left that behind many, many years ago.

I'll get it by trial-and-error, eventually. I may have gotten it, already: Waterford (Detroit), MI: Antenna/DTV Signal Woes


Multipath isn't out-of-the-question, but I believe it unlikely. As I noted in that other thread: We're on a ridge. There's not very much around here as high as we are. No tall buildings, etc., at all.
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post #15846 of 16904 Old 05-19-2018, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
Worst outcome is that you buy hobbled audio later for less money. Have fun!
Or not.

Finally got some answers to my questions in the HDHR forum. Turns out a couple devices, incl. the affordable MiBox, will get 5.1 digital from the HDHR. There were other suggestions made, which were not only better, but more affordable than my plan.

So this may be back on.
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post #15847 of 16904 Old 05-19-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
unfortunately the SL and SQ scales in each device are used different formula, it's not real RF Level [dBm] and SNR [dB], so we can't compare directly "some numbers", sorry
If you put an amplifier on your antenna the signal strength meters in the DVR+ are worthless anyway. Everything comes in at 100%. It was a nice way to compare one channel against another without the amplifier, but the picture on the TV told me that story anyway. So yeah, I think these device based meters are not really that worthwhile.
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post #15848 of 16904 Old 05-19-2018, 01:31 PM
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If you put an amplifier on your antenna the signal strength meters in the DVR+ are worthless anyway. Everything comes in at 100%. It was a nice way to compare one channel against another without the amplifier, but the picture on the TV told me that story anyway. So yeah, I think these device based meters are not really that worthwhile.
I use a CM amplifier, and agree with you about the strength meter in those cases. But in a digital age, the signal quality meter is the more important of the two, especially for diagnosing multipath. Even with the amplifier I was watching the signal quality meter jumping all over the place. It could drop to 0, then rocket into the upper 90's before jumping to any point in between. While neither meter could be considered pro quality, both are functional. The strength meter can be used to point the antenna in the best direction prior to adding an amplifier. The quality meter can be used to diagnose the scope and severity of multipath, with or without an amplifier. By watching the way the signal quality meter was behaving on my DVR+, I knew the only solution would be to move the antenna laterally to another location. Because I was going to the trouble to dig the hole, install a taller mast and reroute the cable I went ahead and bought a better antenna. It worked, as the signal quality is now steady, regardless of what it reads. I also took the old Mohu Leaf 60 I had been using and attached it to the mast, under the new antenna. It's not hooked up to anything, but I'm betting it will provide better reception than where it was.
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post #15849 of 16904 Old 05-19-2018, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
Two things that have me absolutely befuddled these days.

2. Since the days the VCR/tuner was first released, recording programming and time shifting took off and was a staple in homes for decades. Many VCR's were in that $400 price range, and people had no problem shelling out the cash for them in order to record programming, in addition to buying the tapes that kept wearing out. Even if there are only 10 million homes in the U.S. that aren't using cable or satellite I would think that the market is big enough to justify a couple of companies producing a DVR product that takes over the job the VCR was doing 10 years ago. And I don't think there were any VCR's that provided guide data. That was a very underrated benefit of the digital age.
I think I see where you're befuddled. That DVR product exists: it's made in China, costs like $35, and is imported under names like HomeWorx, iView, ViewTV, etc. And yes, it's light-years ahead of the venerable VCR. Heck, it's even way ahead of the govt. coupon converter boxes we all got 9-10 years ago!

The problem is, there's not enough of a market left for higher-end DVRs like the DVR+. TiVo pretty much has the high end locked up and the MStar boxes have the low end. In the middle, I guess there's only room for boxes like the Stream+ or the upcoming 2-tuner AirTV player, subsidized by Google's data collection.
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post #15850 of 16904 Old 05-19-2018, 06:18 PM
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The problem is, there's not enough of a market left for higher-end DVRs like the DVR+. TiVo pretty much has the high end locked up and the MStar boxes have the low end.
I have this 55" TCL Roku TV. It costs a little less than a DVR+. If you plug a 16GB USB thumb drive into the TV, you can pause and rewind through 90 minutes of TV. It has a decent EPG and streams just about everything. A couple hundred lines of code and it is also a full fledged DVR. That's Channel Master's problem. It will be TiVo's problem too.
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post #15851 of 16904 Old 05-19-2018, 06:49 PM
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It's about time someone did that! Time-shifting seems like such a simple and obvious addition, I'm surprised every TV new enough to have a USB port doesn't support it.

Of course, yours is basically a Roku that's built into the TV, but time-shifting seems like a no-brainer even without the Roku.

But even if it evolves into a full-blown DVR, I don't think it's a big problem for TiVo, at least not yet. Eventually, maybe. Thing is, folks don't replace their TVs that often, especially if the main reason they're OTA is that they can't afford cable/satellite. And good luck getting whole-home with a DVR built into the TV.

BTW I finally pulled the trigger on Spectrum's TV Choice. A bit of a hassle since I had to call (couldn't sign up through either their website or the Spectrum TV app), but it's working now. I can stream through my Roku, Android tablet, or even a Web browser. (Browser requires Adobe Flash though.) We'll give it until Thursday or so to make sure no problems before I cancel Sling TV.

That's what Sling gets for breaking up with the DVR+. Even though Spectrum is clearly a better deal (at least for the next 2 years), if the DVR+ Sling app still worked I probably wouldn't have even considered Spectrum.
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post #15852 of 16904 Old 05-19-2018, 07:01 PM
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Of course, yours is basically a Roku that's built into the TV.
It really isn't. My contempt for all things Roku is so deep that I have been banned from the Roku support forums four times. This television is an amazing integration of OTA and OTT which just happens to use the Roku OS for its OTT functions.
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post #15853 of 16904 Old 05-19-2018, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
It's about time someone did that! Time-shifting seems like such a simple and obvious addition, I'm surprised every TV new enough to have a USB port doesn't support it.

Of course, yours is basically a Roku that's built into the TV, but time-shifting seems like a no-brainer even without the Roku...
What is interesting, practically all TV mfgs selling in EU have the USB PVR feature include time-shift and scheduling record based on PSIP [OTA tuner] and EPG/EIT if it comes with sat tuner(s)

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post #15854 of 16904 Old 05-19-2018, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
I use a CM amplifier, and agree with you about the strength meter in those cases. But in a digital age, the signal quality meter is the more important of the two, especially for diagnosing multipath. Even with the amplifier I was watching the signal quality meter jumping all over the place. It could drop to 0, then rocket into the upper 90's before jumping to any point in between. While neither meter could be considered pro quality, both are functional. The strength meter can be used to point the antenna in the best direction prior to adding an amplifier. The quality meter can be used to diagnose the scope and severity of multipath, with or without an amplifier. By watching the way the signal quality meter was behaving on my DVR+, I knew the only solution would be to move the antenna laterally to another location. Because I was going to the trouble to dig the hole, install a taller mast and reroute the cable I went ahead and bought a better antenna. It worked, as the signal quality is now steady, regardless of what it reads. I also took the old Mohu Leaf 60 I had been using and attached it to the mast, under the new antenna. It's not hooked up to anything, but I'm betting it will provide better reception than where it was.
Actually you can employ SQ scale to get best direction of your antenna in case of multipath, it's been best one for user's available methods ; sure, but be ready to sacrifice of the signal level.
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post #15855 of 16904 Old 05-20-2018, 12:37 AM
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Actually you can employ SQ scale to get best direction of your antenna in case of multipath, it's been best one for user's available methods ; sure, but be ready to sacrifice of the signal level.
Wouldn't that only work if the cause of the multipath was the same for all channels being affected? The multipath I experienced was different for the affected channels I had, and changed throughout the day and night. One channel might be affected sporadically, while another would not work at all. 6 hours later, both might have perfect reception or none at all. And the problem varied from device to device, with the DVR+ being the most affected. I was lucky in that the vast majority of channels I receive are clustered together on a hill, which is great for the unidirectional (mostly, anyway) antenna I bought. For those not so fortunate, using signal quality to dial in a channel might also require an antenna rotator in order to receive the full compliment of available channels. I've seen the one CM sells, and know that it can be programmed for several positions and controlled with a remote control. It would be nice if there was an industry standard for things like signal strength and quality that is built into devices.

I'd say that the number one factor when installing an antenna (other than the type of antenna needed) is location. Plant it in a spot that is as far from trees, buildings and other obstructions as possible, then deal with multipath from that perspective. I live in an older neighborhood that is very shady. As I walk or drive through the neighborhood I take note of where I would place an antenna on the various houses I see. Many of them are surrounded by 80 year old oak and pecan trees, which means they are probably SOL if they had a DVR+ or other device that was experiencing multipath interference. I've got a friend who had to have her Dish antenna installed out by her back fence because of trees, and it sits about three feet off the ground. I guess it's the downside of the digital age that reception is all or nothing, as compared to the pioneer days of analog television when you could get picture quality that ranged from poor to great. And get ready for the same thing to happen to radio, as well. I think it was Norway that switched FM broadcasting to digital, which may mean that in addition to buying new radio tuners and receivers we may have to deal with multipath for that, too.
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post #15856 of 16904 Old 05-20-2018, 11:23 AM
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Question, does the Stream + have the Progress bar or and is it the same gui as the DVR+?
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post #15857 of 16904 Old 05-20-2018, 11:54 AM
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It really isn't. My contempt for all things Roku is so deep that I have been banned from the Roku support forums four times. This television is an amazing integration of OTA and OTT which just happens to use the Roku OS for its OTT functions.
No, it is. The Roku "OS" IS ported onto the TCL TV hardware, and even more so, it is the Roku UI with some TV functions grafted into standard Roku "home" screen...which is why I would never buy a "TCL" Roku TV, because I have several much better TV interfaces, including most of my TVs, than what Roku provides. It was clear that Roku does not want people watching broadcast (or cable for that matter) TV on "their" TCL TVs.

But that's software...other than that, Roku makes what are clearly "cheap BOM" devices that they still manage to probably lose about $10-$20 for every one they sell. If you have this MAJOR PROBLEM!!! with Roku, you either hate the hardware, or the software, or both. I can't believe you LOVE the software (and again, there is virtually NO TCL software in a Roku "TCL" TV) on a TV but hate it SO MUCH!!! on a Roku device that you got banned from the Roku forums FOUR TIMES!!! (and those forums are a zoo, where people are allowed to post who find out the names of Roku employees and DEMAND BY NAME THAT THEY BE FIRED FOR DESTROYING THE GOD-GIVEN RIGHT FOR HUMANS TO STREAM BAD TV AND MOVIES!!! for as little as $30...you must have threatened to kill somebody to get kicked off a Roku forum, because that's about the only thing I could imagine somebody doing that would actually get a Roku response).

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post #15858 of 16904 Old 05-20-2018, 05:25 PM
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No, it is. The Roku "OS" IS ported onto the TCL TV hardware, and even more so, it is the Roku UI with some TV functions grafted into standard Roku "home" screen...which is why I would never buy a "TCL" Roku TV, because I have several much better TV interfaces, including most of my TVs, than what Roku provides. It was clear that Roku does not want people watching broadcast (or cable for that matter) TV on "their" TCL TVs.
If you have no significant experience with the TCL sets and other Roku products, then you probably do not understand how different the two are. If you have those experiences, you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree.

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But that's software...other than that, Roku makes what are clearly "cheap BOM" devices that they still manage to probably lose about $10-$20 for every one they sell. If you have this MAJOR PROBLEM!!! with Roku, you either hate the hardware, or the software, or both. I can't believe you LOVE the software (and again, there is virtually NO TCL software in a Roku "TCL" TV) on a TV but hate it SO MUCH!!! on a Roku device that you got banned from the Roku forums FOUR TIMES!!! (and those forums are a zoo, where people are allowed to post who find out the names of Roku employees and DEMAND BY NAME THAT THEY BE FIRED FOR DESTROYING THE GOD-GIVEN RIGHT FOR HUMANS TO STREAM BAD TV AND MOVIES!!! for as little as $30...you must have threatened to kill somebody to get kicked off a Roku forum, because that's about the only thing I could imagine somebody doing that would actually get a Roku response).
The Roku company operates on a shoe string. Each new product becomes the only product. Rather than let the old stuff die off or let people choose to not accept updates, Roku's programmers shoehorn the new products updates onto the old hardware and force installation of the updates. Each major software or hardware update is followed by a year of instability for the rest of the fleet. I was banned for documenting this cycle and politely insisting Roku stop breaking legacy hardware. I have had a couple TCL sets through a software update and did not experience this. Could be luck, I suppose. I suspect TCL maintains the code for their sets. Beyond that, the significant difference is the integration of OTA -- including Trick Play, as I mentioned before. The TVs have high WAF.

It is a FAR different experience than using a Roku plugged into the television. All that is the same is the apps.
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post #15859 of 16904 Old 05-20-2018, 10:05 PM
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If you have no significant experience with the TCL sets and other Roku products, then you probably do not understand how different the two are. If you have those experiences, you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree.

The Roku company operates on a shoe string. Each new product becomes the only product. Rather than let the old stuff die off or let people choose to not accept updates, Roku's programmers shoehorn the new products updates onto the old hardware and force installation of the updates. Each major software or hardware update is followed by a year of instability for the rest of the fleet. I was banned for documenting this cycle and politely insisting Roku stop breaking legacy hardware. I have had a couple TCL sets through a software update and did not experience this. Could be luck, I suppose. I suspect TCL maintains the code for their sets. Beyond that, the significant difference is the integration of OTA -- including Trick Play, as I mentioned before. The TVs have high WAF.

It is a FAR different experience than using a Roku plugged into the television. All that is the same is the apps.
Well, I don't really have any experience as a consumer, only as a developer working on streaming applications for a while now. I've already said I wouldn't have a "TCL" Roku TV in my home (which I don't), and furthermore, I've always felt I could crap a better streamer than any of the commercially available ones (but I have all kinds of the things in my home for work purposes, but I don't use them for my personal streaming).

Speaking from that perspective, and living about 2.5 miles from the Roku buildings in the Netflix campus, and having spent a LOT of time in those buildings, I can understand now where you're coming from, but you are factually incorrect on a few issues.

First, the "Roku company" does not operate on a "shoestring". They have HUNDREDS of engineers scattered all over the USA and the world, with a real large "nut" to overcome to be profitable. They like to use the excuse that they are all small and scrappy compared to competitors like AppleTV and AndroidTV, but as an engineering organization they have their good points but largely squander a lot of their resources like any other big questionably-managed company (including Apple and Google, et. al.) And the "Roku company" was largely responsible for all the software running on the "TCL" TVs, and Roku performs the updates to the TVs and all Roku devices in the field (not the case for other companies running the Roku OS which haven't updated the firmware for years).

If you have noticed a difference between a few updates on the TCL TVs and older Roku devices, it's just a combination of the luck of the draw and the amount of internal testing they have performed on any particular branch of the codebase. I know that about a year and half ago, they caused thousands of TCL TVs to be returned at Christmas because of Roku bugs that caused the TV to be locked up immediately on first power-up, and dozens of apps on all devices would only play the first half-hour of a video before stopping for no apparent reason (other than Roku idiocy).

So yes, Roku has a checkered history of properly updating (or even trying to update) the firmware to run on existing hardware, but you can never exactly tell which devices will get short shrift except probably the older ones that make Roku no additional revenue.

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post #15860 of 16904 Old 05-21-2018, 06:53 AM
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Question, does the Stream + have the Progress bar or and is it the same gui as the DVR+?
Yes it does have a progress bar. No, the GUI is not the same.

This gives a pretty good walk thru of the Google Live Channels DVR app that Stream+ runs. It has absolutely nothing in common with the DVR+ interface.
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post #15861 of 16904 Old 05-21-2018, 08:11 AM
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Wouldn't that only work if the cause of the multipath was the same for all channels being affected?
Well, that's a good point. Different frequencies reflect and interfere with each other in different ways, so often, you have to compromise; find an antenna bearing where the multipath is "acceptable" for all the channels you care about. That can require a lot of trial and error: check every channel's SQ, move the antenna a bit, check every channel again; repeat until you find a bearing you can live with. For many, a much easier solution is what you did: get an antenna directional enough that you don't really need to worry about multipath much.
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Question, does the Stream + have the Progress bar or and is it the same gui as the DVR+?
Don't know about the progress bar, but the Stream+ runs Android TV, while the DVR+ runs E* proprietary software on the Linux platform, so the GUIs are totally different from each other.
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post #15862 of 16904 Old 05-21-2018, 09:31 AM
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It really isn't. My contempt for all things Roku is so deep that I have been banned from the Roku support forums four times.
I have a love/hate relationship with our sole Roku box. (A Roku 3.) For what it cost us I guess I have little complaint, but I doubt we'll be buying any more of them.

I should probably stay out of Roku forums

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... furthermore, I've always felt I could crap a better streamer than any of the commercially available ones ...
Then I wish you would.

I'm just going through what is probably about Round #3 or #4 of trying to put together as straight-forward, clean, not-too-hideously-expensive and inter-operable "media system" as I can. Of course: Some kind of streaming devices on each TV will be necessary.

TabloTV encodes into two-channel audio (AAC, I believe). So that's out. That leaves Silicon Dust HD HomeRun.


  • Roku: Doesn't support HDHR's streaming format. Out
  • Apple TV 4th Gen: No digital audio out, which I need for DD/DTS to my receiver. Out
  • Apple TV 3rd Gen: Pre-loaded apps only. Doesn't have all I want. Out
  • Amazon Fire things: No digital audio out. Out
  • Xiomi MiBox: No Amazon Prime Video (currently). Uses a new IR encoding my venerable old Home Theater Remote MX-500s don't grok, so now back to multiple remotes. *sigh*


Never mind the fact that the OTA boxes (DVR+, Stream+, TabloTV [I infer from a response I received]) often have inferior tuners. I have no idea how HDHRs tuners are.

<looks at the calendar...> In this day-and-age, with the technology and production capabilities we have, designers and manufacturers can't do better than this?

Here's my wish list: An OTA DVR similar to the DVR+ that:


  • Has a minimum of four (4) decent tuners
  • A decent streamer with installable apps
  • Has HDMI that supports HDMI-CEC
  • Has S/PDIF digital audio out
  • WiFi (2.4GHz/5GHz 802.11ac) and Ethernet (GigE) connectivity
  • Provision for using either directly-attached or NAS storage for recordings
  • Streams OTA content, live and recorded, to the LAN, with 5.1 DD/DTS audio
  • Streaming devices that can connect to said box, over the LAN, to stream its live and recorded content

And all of 'em need a "CC"/"subtitle" button on the verkakte remotes!


The DVR+ had much of that list, but not the rest. HDHR devices have much of that list, but not the rest.

This is just stupid.

Last edited by SEMIJim; 05-21-2018 at 10:00 AM.
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post #15863 of 16904 Old 05-21-2018, 10:15 AM
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I have a love/hate relationship with our sole Roku box. (A Roku 3.) For what it cost us I guess I have little complaint, but I doubt we'll be buying any more of them.


I should probably stay out of Roku forums
When I gave away my last Roku, I sent a PM to RokuShawnS wishing him and the company well. He replied...

Quote:
I hope you understand that no matter the number of bans I've issues against you in all your previous incarnations/usernames, I always respected your opinions, which is why with each incarnation I've allowed you to continue posting instead of banning you outright.
this is one of the threads...
https://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.ph...rt=225#p513040

i really wanted the Rokus to work, but there were too many problems. probably why i have been so patient with CM. the dtvpal and dvr+ pretty much work as advertised.

if you do sign on to the roku forums, tell rokushawns voldemort says hello.
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post #15864 of 16904 Old 05-21-2018, 11:03 AM
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@SEMIJim , could you not sideload Amazon onto the MiBox and use our pronto hex codes on your remote? There are a couple of youtube videos on sideloading Amazon.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dl...&file_id=14381 (must log in to download)

FWIW, HDHR Prime tuners works fine for me once they got the bugs worked out. But I mostly used Ceton since they had 6 tuners in one device (meaning just one cable card required).

In any case, looks like Nvidia Shield plus a couple of Homerun tuners checks nearly all your boxes.

EDIT: Sorry, looks like the MX500 can only learn. I guess learning a toggling protocol like Xiaomi isn't going to work.
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post #15865 of 16904 Old 05-21-2018, 02:36 PM
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@SEMIJim , could you not sideload Amazon onto the MiBox
People have had mixed success doing that. For some it worked. For others it worked, then didn't. For others it never worked.

I contacted Amazon. Told them I wasn't having it. Told them "If you don't have this fixed when our current membership cycle is up in one year, we'll be cancelling AP."

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and use our pronto hex codes on your remote?
...
EDIT: Sorry, looks like the MX500 can only learn. I guess learning a toggling protocol like Xiaomi isn't going to work.
Oddly enough, the one toggle command, power on/off, is the only one that the MX-500 was able to learn from the GE/Jasco IR remote. The others it indicated it learned, but would not work. I'm now exploring a JP1 or like solution to see if it's the source or the MX-500. In the meantime I've a Flirc USB thingamabob on the way.

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FWIW, HDHR Prime tuners works fine for me once they got the bugs worked out.
That's good to know! Thanks

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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
In any case, looks like Nvidia Shield plus a couple of Homerun tuners checks nearly all your boxes.
I'm thinking HDHR Connect Quatro and MiBoxen. Perhaps a WD My Cloud to support DVRing.


(I think I'm conversing with you on two forums, about somewhat overlapping topics .)

Last edited by SEMIJim; 05-21-2018 at 03:06 PM.
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post #15866 of 16904 Old 05-21-2018, 03:48 PM
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@SEMIJim , yes, that's me in the other forum. I'll only add here that we're talking about two different toggles. There are commands that toggle, like a power command that does the opposite thing with every press - on, then off, then on, etc. And there's the toggle I'm talking about which is a single bit in the waveform that changes state with every press, no matter what the function, presumably to prevent repeating commands when held down. This particular protocol, like MCE and RC5/6, I think has such a bit. Since learning just records the waveform, it doesn't know about this bit. So when you play it back, it only works every other time - press once, nothing happens - press again, the correct thing happens. I suspect that all your learns actually worked, but you have to press twice for them to do anything.
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post #15867 of 16904 Old 05-21-2018, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SEMIJim View Post
I have a love/hate relationship with our sole Roku box. (A Roku 3.) For what it cost us I guess I have little complaint, but I doubt we'll be buying any more of them.

I should probably stay out of Roku forums


Then I wish you would.

I'm just going through what is probably about Round #3 or #4 of trying to put together as straight-forward, clean, not-too-hideously-expensive and inter-operable "media system" as I can. Of course: Some kind of streaming devices on each TV will be necessary.

TabloTV encodes into two-channel audio (AAC, I believe). So that's out. That leaves Silicon Dust HD HomeRun.


  • Roku: Doesn't support HDHR's streaming format. Out
  • Apple TV 4th Gen: No digital audio out, which I need for DD/DTS to my receiver. Out
  • Apple TV 3rd Gen: Pre-loaded apps only. Doesn't have all I want. Out
  • Amazon Fire things: No digital audio out. Out
  • Xiomi MiBox: No Amazon Prime Video (currently). Uses a new IR encoding my venerable old Home Theater Remote MX-500s don't grok, so now back to multiple remotes. *sigh*


Never mind the fact that the OTA boxes (DVR+, Stream+, TabloTV [I infer from a response I received]) often have inferior tuners. I have no idea how HDHRs tuners are.

<looks at the calendar...> In this day-and-age, with the technology and production capabilities we have, designers and manufacturers can't do better than this?

Here's my wish list: An OTA DVR similar to the DVR+ that:


  • Has a minimum of four (4) decent tuners
  • A decent streamer with installable apps
  • Has HDMI that supports HDMI-CEC
  • Has S/PDIF digital audio out
  • WiFi (2.4GHz/5GHz 802.11ac) and Ethernet (GigE) connectivity
  • Provision for using either directly-attached or NAS storage for recordings
  • Streams OTA content, live and recorded, to the LAN, with 5.1 DD/DTS audio
  • Streaming devices that can connect to said box, over the LAN, to stream its live and recorded content

And all of 'em need a "CC"/"subtitle" button on the verkakte remotes!


The DVR+ had much of that list, but not the rest. HDHR devices have much of that list, but not the rest.

This is just stupid.
Well, it's just like I always say about the TV viewing audience: they don't want a lot, THEY WANT EVERYTHING!!!

Except, you're still thinking too small...but what you've got is kind of the bare minimum modern man needs to survive...

I've laid out the bare bones architecture of an "ideal" device, and have been working on a larger VOD transaction framework that at the very least doesn't preclude the above or better. I've used a Roku (3) as a "typical" consumer client application device, along with iPhone/Pad, Android/TV, Windows, and Web reference clients. None of this solves any problems with 1080i playback from ESPN on a Roku XS...but should make distribution of media content a little easier to perform, and maybe change the economics of it enough to allow better app development on client platforms (condensing the various data models/objects involved to standardized types should free up some developer time to deal with the issues with client platform APIs, and clean the APIs up as well).

--
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post #15868 of 16904 Old 05-21-2018, 05:16 PM
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When I gave away my last Roku, I sent a PM to RokuShawnS wishing him and the company well. He replied...


this is one of the threads...
https://forums.roku.com/viewtopic.ph...rt=225#p513040

i really wanted the Rokus to work, but there were too many problems. probably why i have been so patient with CM. the dtvpal and dvr+ pretty much work as advertised.

if you do sign on to the roku forums, tell rokushawns voldemort says hello.
Did you ever go into the Roku developer forums? I've never really read the user forums, and based on the above I can see why you're not happy with Roku. But of course all of these problems start for the app developer with what Roku exposes of the capabilities of the hardware, the APIs, and then the developer can get a little lazy and misguided or just overwhelmed and miss some important things, next thing you know, you've got a mess.

And no, it does not behoove a consumer electronics company to have misbehaving firmware and apps like that. But there are cynical ways to maintain forward market progress, and invalidating older hardware is great way (far be it from me to suggest nefarious intent in this).

You COULD just buy a new box (of any brand), and that's what a lot of Roku users do. Interesting to see what happens with that Roku TV of yours in the future (maybe that is a little TOO nefarious, but a lot of people say you shouldn't buy a TV with a built-in streamer to avoid obsolescence of your TV/streamer).

By the way, "RokuDale" is the guy who wrote the code for the "TCL" Roku TV that allows "trick play" using the flash drive that you like so much, and he's not Chinese and lives nowhere near China (I think the calls are actually in the public Roku APIs as well, for obscure reasons)...

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post #15869 of 16904 Old 05-21-2018, 05:32 PM
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@SEMIJim , yes, that's me in the other forum. I'll only add here that we're talking about two different toggles. ...
I'll copy-n-paste the relevant bits of what you wrote, here, into the thread we've got going in the other forum. It's wandered OT for this thread and forum section.
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post #15870 of 16904 Old 05-21-2018, 06:01 PM
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By the way, "RokuDale" is the guy who wrote the code for the "TCL" Roku TV that allows "trick play" using the flash drive that you like so much...
RokuDale and I went through some troubleshooting with the Roku 2XS when I could easily repeat a problem on all five I owned but not on my LTs. Seems to me he was also responsible for my second favorite media player. If you are in touch, tell him voldemort loves the TCL Roku TV and not to f* it up
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