Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 547 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16381 of 16599 Old 01-23-2019, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
It's the very definition of "penny wise; pound foolish" though. The stations have 19.39 Mb/s of data to play with and the first place they cut is the .01 Mb/s needed by a longer program guide? Yeah, people are really gonna notice that
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It's common misconception what stations shamelessly employ now - PSIP data taking less then 100 Kbps and spooling periodically, not all the time.
It may come down to who and how the station's engineering is managed. Think back to late October when @tonymich provided some good information about how PSIP was programmed. One of those posts can be read here, with the entire thread topic on either side of the referenced post. Based on what he posted, the success in getting a station to expand its PSIP data may come down to whether that station's program manager and engineer handle it themselves or farm it out to a station that acts as a hub for many stations. If PSIP is handled internally, communicating with the PM or engineer via e-mail, phone or letter may get results. But if PSIP is farmed out to a hub your communication may be ignored because the PM or engineer doesn't want to mess with it. They pay someone else to handle their engineering tasks so actually contacting the person who accesses the GUI and clicks on the menu item is just extra work for them. In those cases the best results might be obtained by contacting the station manager, and letting him/her deal with the PM or engineer. @tonymich was pretty straightforward about saying that they valued their OTA viewers, but apparently that isn't the case for all stations.
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post #16382 of 16599 Old 01-26-2019, 08:50 PM
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Is anyone else having the issue that I am? My guide has no programming past Superbowl Sunday which is about 7 days. It seems to me that I used to have 2 weeks of look ahead, but now, everything in the guide stops after next Sunday.

Is there a manual process for making the guide update?
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post #16383 of 16599 Old 01-26-2019, 11:01 PM
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reboot
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post #16384 of 16599 Old 01-27-2019, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by carltonrice View Post
Is there a manual process for making the guide update?
Menu / Settings / Channel Setup / Antenna Channels / Refresh Internet Guide Data

But now that you mention it, my guide goes up only to 6 AM Monday, so this may be a widespread problem. WeatherNation on CMTV is working, so I know my Internet connection is good.
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post #16385 of 16599 Old 01-27-2019, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Menu / Settings / Channel Setup / Antenna Channels / Refresh Internet Guide Data

But now that you mention it, my guide goes up only to 6 AM Monday, so this may be a widespread problem. WeatherNation on CMTV is working, so I know my Internet connection is good.
Yes. I did a reboot and then performed the Guide refresh and it still has nothing past next Sunday. My wifi is working fine and when I did the refresh, it did grab a lot of the guide, but only up thru Sunday.
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post #16386 of 16599 Old 01-27-2019, 11:29 PM
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Should we expect a press release from CM about end of free guide ? And soon to be mandatory a subscription for it ?
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post #16387 of 16599 Old 01-28-2019, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
Should we expect a press release from CM about end of free guide ? And soon to be mandatory a subscription for it ?

I would prefer that to just losing the guide altogether. PSIP isn't enough for me in the LA area, as the stations don't populate it well enough to go out several days. The best would be able to choose any guide we wanted but that's not going to happen unless someone is able to hack the DVR+. CM doesn't own the code so it would have to be from Echo*/Dish and I don't see that happening.
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post #16388 of 16599 Old 01-28-2019, 11:56 AM
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The Seattle area is the same. Only guide to Monday Feb. 4th at 4 AM.
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post #16389 of 16599 Old 01-28-2019, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tmn1 View Post
The Seattle area is the same. Only guide to Monday Feb. 4th at 4 AM.
OK. So it isn't just me!
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post #16390 of 16599 Old 01-28-2019, 01:35 PM
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Yes it look like the guide is over. Mine goes out till Feb.4. It is just like last time when they stopped ROVI. Why did they even bother with the 135r if it was only for six additional months?


Also mine updated yesterday so not an update issue.
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post #16391 of 16599 Old 01-28-2019, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
But now that you mention it, my guide goes up only to 6 AM Monday, so this may be a widespread problem.
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Originally Posted by tmn1 View Post
The Seattle area is the same. Only guide to Monday Feb. 4th at 4 AM.
The same time as mine ends. (4 AM PST = 6 AM CST). I suspect it's the end of the 1-year warranty for the last DVR+ they sold.

Why would CM end the free guide but keep CMTV working? Maybe CMTV will also end Monday morning. (No big loss.)

I doubt there will be a subscription option. The CM-7400 had a paid guide; CM ended that anyway, even before the DVR+ hit the market. (Folks who had paid got to keep their guides until their subscriptions ran out, but couldn't renew.)

At least the DVR+ will still work with PSIP, and makes a better DVR than, say, the CM-7000Pal in a few ways:

  • Supports larger HDDs (Pal limited to 1TB) and more recordings (999 vs. 600)
  • DVR+ Lister (thanks again @pachinko )
  • I think the Internet apps (except Sling) still work too, but I haven't tried them lately.

Edit: Vudu still works. So does Pandora. Haven't checked YouTube yet.
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post #16392 of 16599 Old 01-28-2019, 02:41 PM
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If this is the end of the guide, don't forget... we'll need to set up short manual recordings of selected stations to keep the PSIP guide updated.
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post #16393 of 16599 Old 01-28-2019, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RTPVid View Post
If this is the end of the guide, don't forget... we'll need to set up short manual recordings of selected stations to keep the PSIP guide updated.
Or you can try reverting to version 108R, or use a digital programmable timer to schedule reboots, or heist the software from E* and release it so it is open source. All three have their strengths and weaknesses. Reverting to version 108R is the most hands off fix. But you lose the features that were added in later releases, and I haven't gotten around to testing it to see how well it works. Using a digital timer to schedule reboots works well, but depending on what brand of TV you have it could cause your TV to turn on every time you reboot the DVR+. And while rebooting does trigger a full PSIP scan, the absolute minimum number of reboots should be two per day (every 12 hours), with three (8 hours) or four (6 hours) being preferable. You would also have to schedule them in such a way as to avoid interfering with any scheduled recordings. If your TV doesn't turn on when you reboot the DVR+ this is the second most hands off alternative, but it would also be very important to use a universal power supply to keep the timer accurate in the event of a power outage. The third option, heisting the software from E* and releasing it to the world as open source is probably the best option...other than that whole prison thing.
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post #16394 of 16599 Old 01-28-2019, 08:09 PM
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Reverting to version 108R is the most hands off fix. But you lose the features that were added in later releases, and I haven't gotten around to testing it to see how well it works.
Good point. Here's a brief summary of the major features added after 108R:

  • 111R added Pandora
  • 114R added YouTube
  • 124R added CMTV (but CMTV no longer works with it), support to format >2TB HDDs (with 4K sectors) and the new "enhanced" remote
  • 134R was a bug-fix release for 132R, which removed the support to format large HDDs but improved guide navigation, and CMTV works
  • 135R switched guide servers.

Support for 4K TVs was added in either 124R or 132R. I didn't mention Sling since it no longer works anyway.

There's no real reason to consider 132R since 134R has exactly the same features with fewer bugs, and if the Internet guide is truly kaput, there's no reason to consider 135R either. (I also ignored 115R since it's not available as a file for upgrades/downgrades.) And the only reason to use 124R is to format a large HDD; for day-to-day use you should either upgrade to 134R, or if CMTV goes away (or you don't use it) and you don't have an "enhanced" remote or a 4K TV, you can downgrade to one of the earlier versions.

If the Internet guide is completely gone by Monday, I may revert to 134R to see if the Rovi guide is still broken too. (Probably is, but no harm in trying.)

Edit: BTW, if you happen to own an Xbox One there may be another option. You can feed the DVR+ through the Xbox One to take advantage of its OneGuide. It'll never be as well-integrated as the DVR+'s own guide, but AIUI, you can tell the Xbox to "Record The Simpsons" and it will search the OneGuide, find The Simpsons, and blast the remote-control commands out to the DVR+ to set a manual recording.

I'm probably grossly over-simplifying. I don't own an Xbox One. Hopefully someone who does can set the record straight.

Unfortunately that's a pretty expensive option just to keep a two-week guide, unless you already happen to own an Xbox One, or are looking for a game console anyway. But if you happen to be in the market for a game console, that might be a reason to choose the Xbox One over its competitors.

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post #16395 of 16599 Old 01-28-2019, 09:03 PM
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Been looking for this all day and finally found it. Five years ago, just as the DVR+ hit the market, the same thing happened to the CM-7400:
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Originally Posted by pcnetwrx View Post
It does not sound like a good situation to me and I am doubtful that I will be able to live with it. I am equally doubtful that I would buy ChannelMaster's new DVR+ since they abandoned the CM-7400 after such a short time. Two years is too short of a time to recover my investment in this kind of equipment when the whole point of buying it in the first place is to cut the cord and save money.
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I must admit it's a valid concern. If CM cut off the CM-7400's guide service so soon, what's to say they won't cut off the DVR+'s guide when they come out with... what - the DVR# (DVR-sharp ) in 2016?
As it happens, we got a couple years more than I feared (and the name of the "DVR#" turned out to be the Stream+), so it wasn't as bad for us as it was for pcnetwrx, but it looks like the same scenario is playing out again now.

Having had a DVR+ since (IIRC) October 2014, I feel I got a free guide for a reasonable amount of time - but if I'd bought one just before they were discontinued (a little over a year ago), I'd be pretty at CM right about now.
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post #16396 of 16599 Old 01-28-2019, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Good point. Here's a brief summary of the major features added after 108R:

  • 111R added Pandora
  • 114R added YouTube
  • 124R added CMTV (but CMTV no longer works with it), support to format >2TB HDDs (with 4K sectors) and the new "enhanced" remote
  • 134R was a bug-fix release for 132R, which removed the support to format large HDDs but improved guide navigation, and CMTV works
  • 135R switched guide servers.
There are also two changes that may be of importance to some people if they revert to version 108R, one positive and one negative. The positive change would be that the throttled volume issue that some have complained about will be gone. I don't like it, but I can live with it even though my Samsung TV is almost twice as loud as the DVR+ is with the same volume setting. The negative change is that the red light bug may be back in play with a FW reversion. I don't know when it appeared, but it was present when I bought my DVR+ in the summer of 2015. I forget what FW version was on it when it came out of the box. Also keep in mind that there were several navigation changes to buttons on the remotes over various FW upgrades, some good and some bad.

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post #16397 of 16599 Old 01-29-2019, 03:52 AM
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This may be premature. I just checked and my guide data goes out to Feb. 12th, a full two weeks.

Can you guys double check yours?
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post #16398 of 16599 Old 01-29-2019, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by fshagan View Post
This may be premature. I just checked and my guide data goes out to Feb. 12th, a full two weeks.

Can you guys double check yours?
Same here. Mine now goes out to Feb 12, 6:00AM CST. Looks like somebody at CM plugged in the power cord for the server that hosts the program guide data. Thanks for the head's up @fshagan .

Just curious. Did anybody contact CM support about this??
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post #16399 of 16599 Old 01-29-2019, 06:29 AM
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Will check tonight. Maybe it was just a glitch and not EOL for the guide. I may have panicked just a bit too soon....

I never got an email from CM; I would think that if/when EOL arrives they would at least email their known customers.
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post #16400 of 16599 Old 01-29-2019, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
There are also two changes that may be of importance to some people if they revert to version 108R, one positive and one negative.... The negative change is that the red light bug may be back in play with a FW reversion. I don't know when it appeared, but it was present when I bought my DVR+ in the summer of 2015.
IIRC the LED worked differently in 108R. The bug appeared when CM tried to make the LED's operation more logical, I think in 114R. (They didn't get it fixed for good until 134R.)

111R shouldn't have the red light bug (although the LED probably works differently in that version too), adds Pandora (still working), and it might even scan for PSIP guide data in the background like 108R does (I haven't tested it). But it has one annoyance: it periodically accesses the HDD, keeping it spinning. You may not care (my PC's HDDs spin constantly, seemingly without any problems) but if you do, you'll want to avoid that version.

Unfortunately there's no perfect version of DVR+ firmware. You just have to pick the version that best suits your needs and whose bugs you can live with.
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post #16401 of 16599 Old 01-29-2019, 07:54 AM
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...[*]124R added CMTV (but CMTV no longer works with it), support to format >2TB HDDs (with 4K sectors) ...
I'm thinking … if I would take my DVR+ with me instead of selling it five years ago … I would wrote independent program for formatting any HDD for the model (as I did that for TR-50) ...
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post #16402 of 16599 Old 01-29-2019, 08:00 AM
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Lightbulb

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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
The same time as mine ends. (4 AM PST = 6 AM CST). I suspect it's the end of the 1-year warranty for the last DVR+ they sold.

Why would CM end the free guide but keep CMTV working? Maybe CMTV will also end Monday morning. (No big loss.)

I doubt there will be a subscription option. The CM-7400 had a paid guide; CM ended that anyway, even before the DVR+ hit the market. (Folks who had paid got to keep their guides until their subscriptions ran out, but couldn't renew.)

At least the DVR+ will still work with PSIP, and makes a better DVR than, say, the CM-7000Pal in a few ways:

  • Supports larger HDDs (Pal limited to 1TB) and more recordings (999 vs. 600)
  • DVR+ Lister (thanks again @pachinko )
  • I think the Internet apps (except Sling) still work too, but I haven't tried them lately.

Edit: Vudu still works. So does Pandora. Haven't checked YouTube yet.
A. I don't recall why it cannot support up to 2TB … if FW cannot work with 4k sectors, then yes, but with 512 bps it should go to 2 TB limit …
B. If pachinko willing to spend his time, I could help him with new program - "PAL Lister"
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post #16403 of 16599 Old 01-29-2019, 10:30 AM
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Just a thought, regarding the lack of updates for the EPG for the last couple of days. As we all know, when CM released 1.35R, the DVR+ connected to a different server for the EPG data. Once I installed 1.35R, every time I looked at the EPG, it had only 12 days of programs, as opposed to 14 days pre-1.35R. Today, the EPG is showing 14 days of programs. Maybe CM made a change on their side, to increase the data to 14 days. But there was a problem with it, causing the EPG outage.


Again, just a thought. Not claiming anything definitively, other than that we now have 14 days of programs.
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post #16404 of 16599 Old 01-29-2019, 02:58 PM
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Re: the Pal's 1TB limit, I don't think there was any technical reason for it either; it was just an arbitrary limit thrown into the firmware. Used to be 500 GB but they changed it somewhere along the way to F208.

2TB probably wouldn't do you much good if you're limited to 600 recordings anyhow.

@P Smith might PM @pachinko and see if he's interested. It would be a much more ambitious project though, since there's no "Dave'sFSD" for the Pal.

Re: 12 vs. 14 days; it's interesting that Microsoft's WMC guide is also 12 days. I'd always assumed that was due to delays between downloading the guides from Rovi and doing whatever processing is necessary to put them on Microsoft's own server, and that CM started doing something similar with the 135R update.

M$ has to deal with many more guides than CM, though, because WMC supports cable & satellite, while the DVR+ and Stream+ are both OTA only. So it was probably easier for CM to reduce any processing delays to less than a day.
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post #16405 of 16599 Old 01-30-2019, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
A. I don't recall why it cannot support up to 2TB … if FW cannot work with 4k sectors, then yes, but with 512 bps it should go to 2 TB limit …
B. If pachinko willing to spend his time, I could help him with new program - "PAL Lister"
Quote:
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..
@P Smith might PM @pachinko and see if he's interested. It would be a much more ambitious project though, since there's no "Dave'sFSD" for the Pal.
...
Sorry guys, no can do!

I don't even mess with the DVR+ anymore since the audio output got fried by lightning. It records okay, but no audio, except if the recordings are copied to the PC and played that way (IIRC). I just watch this thread waiting for someone to announce finding a new device that's a true OTA DVR, and BETTER than the DVR+. With a couple of OTA DVRs, whose name shall not be spoken (or typed), and with one kept in its box for a backup, I likely will not be interested unless it's ATSC 3.0, but that still seems to be a year or so from now.
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post #16406 of 16599 Old 01-30-2019, 09:18 PM
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OUCH! This is one reason I complained about its lack of L/R audio back when it was first introduced. (Folks said I was just being old-fashioned - wanting "analog" audio. I pointed out that it's analog from the speakers to your ears anyway )

Does the optical audio output still work? (Of course that assumes you have something to connect it to.)

As for DVR+ alternatives, I started a thread a month or two ago: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hd...rs-thread.html. Unfortunately there aren't many choices at the moment: among "traditional" DVRs that hook directly to your TV like the DVR+, there are the cheap MStar boxes, the CM-7004, the DVR Which Shall Not Be Named, and of course Android streaming boxes with a DVR app, like the Stream+, Shield, and AirTV Player. For my money, none are quite what I want (not even the DVR Which Shall Not Be Named) as a DVR+ replacement. I still use my DTVPal DVR, though, so I'm probably not very typical.

The trend today seems to be toward the streaming boxes, and/or "Network" DVRs like the Tablo, since you can watch on smart phones or tablets as well as your TV. You need a streamer like the Roku on each TV though. (The thread offers more info on the Big 3 network DVRs.) Of these, I tend to lean toward the AirTV "black box," but mostly that's just because I happen to own one. It is impressive in some ways, though; especially being able to stream live TV or recordings over the Internet when you aren't home.

BTW, the AirTV BB poses a Pachinko-level challenge: how do I copy recordings off the [email protected]#%$# thing? Windows doesn't even recognize the file system it uses. (I suspect it's XFS, but there's no Windows XFS driver, and even Partition Magic doesn't recognize XFS partitions.)
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post #16407 of 16599 Old 01-30-2019, 11:28 PM
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I just watch this thread waiting for someone to announce finding a new device that's a true OTA DVR, and BETTER than the DVR+...I likely will not be interested unless it's ATSC 3.0, but that still seems to be a year or so from now.
And that, I believe is the crux of the biscuit. Who in their right mind would design, develop and release a DVR that has a built in brick date, even if that date is several years down the road? OTA DVR's seem to come and go in cycles, and I think we will have to wait until ATSC 3.0 becomes widespread and embedded in broadcaster's hardware before anyone will take a chance on it. It could be worth watching what happens in Europe and Asia to see if a major electronics company releases a "true OTA DVR" there in the next year or so. If they do, and it is reasonably successful there is a good chance it will be adapted for North America. Until then, we be out of luck. BTW, last time I checked the ticker on eBay the DVR+ was selling for about $200, give or take and the Stream+ was selling for about half that.
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post #16408 of 16599 Old 01-30-2019, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
... It could be worth watching what happens in Europe and Asia to see if a major electronics company releases a "true OTA DVR" there in the next year or so. If they do, and it is reasonably successful there is a good chance it will be adapted for North America. Until then, we be out of luck. ...
I'm not sure why you are pointing to EU and propose to wait ?
EU is settled. Already, and pretty well.
There are many TVs (practically all of them) have DVB-T2 support what will lasts in foreseeable future, some have additional DVB-S2 tuner(s), many of them have PVR support if you will connect your own USB drive.
Plus the standalone HDT-610R - a father of DVR+ , I've seen a few DVB-T2 OTA boxes with USB port, didn't check what for, but with high chances it's for PVR functions.
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post #16409 of 16599 Old 01-31-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
I'm not sure why you are pointing to EU and propose to wait ?
EU is settled. Already, and pretty well.
That's precisely why I am pointing to Europe and Asia. If the new standards are already in place there then those markets are technologically receptive to new OTA DVR products. And as you point out, those products might come built into the TV, which is something we might have to be prepared for in the United States. But when it comes to ATSC 3.0 here all we have is Phoenix, where they are currently testing it, and Dallas/Fort Worth (on former channels 47 and 49), where is will be tested soon. So if electronics companies were going to market new OTA DVR's where are they going to do it--Europe and Asia (namely South Korea), where DVB-T2/ATSC 3.0 is already in place, or the United States where it is just beginning? Personally, I would prefer to have my TV turned into a monitor that accepts an ATSC 3.0 box, rather than have to buy a new TV that has a built in DVR but requires an EHD.
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post #16410 of 16599 Old 01-31-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Arenal04 View Post
Same here. Mine now goes out to Feb 12, 6:00AM CST. Looks like somebody at CM plugged in the power cord for the server that hosts the program guide data. Thanks for the head's up @fshagan .

Just curious. Did anybody contact CM support about this??
I did. They were slow to respond and when they did respond with questions I was slow with emailed answers (because I'm currently dealing with bigger issues than a broken TV guide--we have the real threat of losing our natural gas on top of -40 windchills. )

Anyway, they did find out and looks like they took care of it.
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