Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 553 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16561 of 16834 Old 06-05-2019, 12:52 PM
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What brand of TV do you have?
Samsung. I don't know how other TV's would be affected. Some TV's may have a setting to prevent this, and my backup plan of switching the TV source to "TV" instead of the input used for the DVR+ seems to keep that from happening. The HDMI1 input is always visible in the TV's source list, even if the DVR+ is in standby. HDMI2, which is used for my Philips DVDR is only visible when it is powered up, although it does come as soon as I hit the power button, several seconds before it has fully booted up. The DVR+ seems to have some kind of constant power connection with the TV.
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post #16562 of 16834 Old 06-05-2019, 05:16 PM
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... my Samsung TV ...
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What brand of TV do you have?
<facepalm>
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post #16563 of 16834 Old 06-05-2019, 11:24 PM
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post #16564 of 16834 Old 06-06-2019, 06:17 PM
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Still flying naked...

Here's another update to the Programmable Digital Timer experiment for keeping PSIP data current in the Guide:

UPDATE #3 :
For starters, I have to correct something. When the DVR+ is rebooted from standby mode, it will shut down as soon as the reboot is complete. Therefore, the TV was never going to wake me up in the morning if it powered up as a result of the reboot. I must have been out of my brain on the 5:15 when I posted that statement. That said...

This evening I got home about 06:10PM, approximately 10 minutes after the programmable digital timer rebooted my DVR+. I noticed that the TV was on, and the DVR+ was off. This means that sometimes the TV will come on when the DVR+ reboots from standby mode, and sometimes it won't. I don't know the conditions that cause either.

After seeing that the TV was still on, I went into its menu settings to see if there was anything I had missed. It has an auto-power off feature that can only be set to ON/OFF (which is 4 hours). But in another menu selection it does have a "No Signal" feature when can be activated and set for various increments. The shortest increment is 15 minutes, which is what the TV was already set to do. Had I arrived home 10 minutes later I wouldn't have noticed that it had been on.

So to continue with the programmable digital timer experiment I have two options. The first is to set the TV source to "TV" and make sure I am around when the DVR+ reboots to verify that my theory is correct that it won't power up the TV. The other day I would have bet money on this option, but not now. The second option is to live with the TV being on for 15 minutes twice a day before it powers down for lack of a signal. It would be nice if the time before shutdown could be set in a shorter increment, but 15 minutes is not a big deal. For that reason I am going to go that route. The TV may power up sometimes, and other times it may not. If all continues down this track, at the end of next week I will delete all the dummy recordings (which have been "Cancelled" until next Monday) and conclude that this experiment is a success, or at least close enough for Rock 'N' Roll. I'm already spoiled on not having to do daily/every other day maintenance to delete the dummy recordings and clear the history. When I return home from being gone a week it can take close to a minute to delete 140 dummy recordings, and while that is happening all other features of the DVR+ are unusable until the delete finishes.

As a side note, the only drawback to using this model of programmable digital timer is that it has a blue light that is bright enough to light up the living room a bit. That may turn out to be a distraction, or it may just be a free night-lite bonus. But if it is the former, a small piece of electrical tape will take care of it. A more general drawback to all programmable digital timers is that they have to be plugged in to set the clock and other options. And when they are plugged in you have to get down on the floor to read and manipulate them. Fortunately, the power strip mine is plugged into can be pulled out and put in a more user friendly location and position.
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post #16565 of 16834 Old 06-07-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
Here's another update to the Programmable Digital Timer experiment for keeping PSIP data current in the Guide:

UPDATE #3 :
For starters, I have to correct something. When the DVR+ is rebooted from standby mode, it will shut down as soon as the reboot is complete. Therefore, the TV was never going to wake me up in the morning if it powered up as a result of the reboot. I must have been out of my brain on the 5:15 when I posted that statement. That said...

This evening I got home about 06:10PM, approximately 10 minutes after the programmable digital timer rebooted my DVR+. I noticed that the TV was on, and the DVR+ was off. This means that sometimes the TV will come on when the DVR+ reboots from standby mode, and sometimes it won't. I don't know the conditions that cause either.

After seeing that the TV was still on, I went into its menu settings to see if there was anything I had missed. It has an auto-power off feature that can only be set to ON/OFF (which is 4 hours). But in another menu selection it does have a "No Signal" feature when can be activated and set for various increments. The shortest increment is 15 minutes, which is what the TV was already set to do. Had I arrived home 10 minutes later I wouldn't have noticed that it had been on.
Does your TV have a setting that allows HDMI-connected equipment to turn the TV on/off? Our Sony has such a setting. It's called "Control for HDMI". I've got it set to Off. This way, the TV comes on ONLY when I press the power button for the TV.
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post #16566 of 16834 Old 06-07-2019, 11:10 AM
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[QUOTE=Greasemonkey;58151198]Here's another update to the Programmable Digital Timer experiment for keeping PSIP data current in the Guide:

Your life is to complicated for me. I guess we all need to pay attention when the guide stops working we will all have to do as Greasemonkey.
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post #16567 of 16834 Old 06-07-2019, 04:27 PM
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Does your TV have a setting that allows HDMI-connected equipment to turn the TV on/off? Our Sony has such a setting. It's called "Control for HDMI". I've got it set to Off. This way, the TV comes on ONLY when I press the power button for the TV.
Unfortunately, no. I've been through the entire menu and there is only the two options of a 4 hour inactivity shutdown and the no signal option, which can be set for 15, 30 or 60 minutes. Maybe I could use this as an excuse to upgrade my TV, but I am not sure how I could find out if any new TV will also power up automatically. I suppose I could take my DVR+ to the electronics store along with the timer and go down the line plugging it in to various TV's...

For what it's worth, I was home for the 06:00PM timed reboot this evening and the TV didn't come on. So at worse this is an intermittent "problem". I can live with it, at least for a while. At some point I may go to option #3 to keep PSIP data up to date, which would be to revert back to version 108r. But for now this seems to be acceptable. Since I am seldom up at 6:00AM there is little chance the DVR+ is going to reboot when I am watching TV, and in the evening I can always switch inputs on the TV as the witching hour approaches.

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Your life is to complicated for me. I guess we all need to pay attention when the guide stops working we will all have to do as Greasemonkey.
Well, hopefully CM has things set up now so the DVR+ will be able to get the Internet Guide from the same servers that the Stream+ now uses, and any future DVR products they release will use. But if the Internet Guide does crap out on you, there will always be the three PSIP options of dummy recordings, FW version 108r and the timer reboot. None of those options are perfect--dummy recordings take up recording slots and only work for the channels/sister channels that you record, version 108r doesn't have features you might like or need, and timed rebooting can cause disruptions when you don't want them. So we all continue wait for a true DVR+ replacement...
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post #16568 of 16834 Old 06-07-2019, 05:50 PM
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Well, hopefully CM has things set up now so the DVR+ will be able to get the Internet Guide from the same servers that the Stream+ now uses, and any future DVR products they release will use. But if the Internet Guide does crap out on you, there will always be the three PSIP options of dummy recordings, FW version 108r and the timer reboot. None of those options are perfect--dummy recordings take up recording slots and only work for the channels/sister channels that you record, version 108r doesn't have features you might like or need, and timed rebooting can cause disruptions when you don't want them. So we all continue wait for a true DVR+ replacement...

The Stream+ guide comes from Google's Live Channels, and is different from the DVR+ guide. I think CM is still getting the guide data from Rovi/Tivo for the DVR+. The Live Channels guide is mostly from Gracenote from what Nick Chalko has said (there are other internal sources, but Gracenote is the main provider).
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post #16569 of 16834 Old 06-12-2019, 11:23 AM
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The Stream+ guide comes from Google's Live Channels, and is different from the DVR+ guide. I think CM is still getting the guide data from Rovi/Tivo for the DVR+. The Live Channels guide is mostly from Gracenote from what Nick Chalko has said (there are other internal sources, but Gracenote is the main provider).
I stand corrected, then. So I guess that the free lifetime guide from Channel Master is still subject to when they want to end it. I thought the final FW update switched the Internet guide to something more neutral that would serve their new products. If that's not the case, @artisticimaging is correct that Internet guide users may have to sort through the PSIP options if CM pulls the plug before ATSC 3.0 puts two taps in the head of our tuners.

On the bright side, I just got back in town and saw no problems with the programmable digital timer rebooting my DVR+. All the programs scheduled to record were there, and 20% of my internal HDD wasn't filled with dummy recordings. The only glitch was that I had 50 seconds of an episode of "Dust" that was scheduled to begin at 6:00PM Monday night. The 50 seconds was the 1 minute "early start" I have the DVR+ set for to start recording. It died just before the program actually began. The DVR+ rebooted, and that same episode of "Dust" started up again 4 minutes later so I had 56 minutes of the episode intact. It was also an episode I had seen, so no loss there. That behavior is the biggest downside to using a timer to reboot the DVR+. Other than that, I am happy with the results I've seen though I would like to reboot it every 8 hours so the Guide is fully populated all the time. Some channels only have 9 hours of programming information, but those are channels I seldom, if ever watch.
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post #16570 of 16834 Old 06-12-2019, 01:04 PM
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I stand corrected, then. So I guess that the free lifetime guide from Channel Master is still subject to when they want to end it. I thought the final FW update switched the Internet guide to something more neutral that would serve their new products. If that's not the case, @artisticimaging is correct that Internet guide users may have to sort through the PSIP options if CM pulls the plug before ATSC 3.0 puts two taps in the head of our tuners.

I was certain that was the reason for the new guide server, and argued that CM must have done it to allow the cost of continuing to provide the guide to the DVR+ to be consolidated with their new product's guide. But I noticed significant differences in the guides and asked Nick about where the guide comes from for the Stream+ in the old Google+ beta channel. He confirmed Google supplies the guide from Gracenote (and other internal sources). I think we are past the one year mark for the last sale of the DVR+ that promised the guide, so they could cut it off any moment without violating any warranty.



The Stream+ is still not quite ready for prime time without Prime and Netflix, and chase play being promised but not yet implemented. With the other options out there now like the Amazon Recast, I can't see recommending the Stream+ to anyone any longer.



The DVR+ is still my favorite DVR I have ever owned and I catch my breath with every hiccup it has.
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post #16571 of 16834 Old 06-12-2019, 03:06 PM
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...The DVR+ is still my favorite DVR I have ever owned and I catch my breath with every hiccup it has.
Me too. I'm gonna ride that horse till it dies.

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post #16572 of 16834 Old 06-12-2019, 04:05 PM
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I think we are past the one year mark for the last sale of the DVR+ that promised the guide, so they could cut it off any moment without violating any warranty.
At least the DVR+ is still usable without the Internet guide. The same can't be said for the Stream+ and other DVR's. I really hope that CM is paying attention to the apparent lag in Stream+ development and is looking for a real replacement for the DVR+. I don't see it happening until ATSC 3.0 is widespread, but hopefully they are starting to see what they had, and could have again. Ditto for the DVR+ being the best DVR I have owned.
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post #16573 of 16834 Old 06-12-2019, 09:02 PM
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At least the DVR+ is still usable without the Internet guide. The same can't be said for the Stream+ and other DVR's.

The Stream+ will work in a more limited fashion without an Internet connection by populating up to 24 hours of PSIP data per channel (the describe the method to convert it to PSIP here: https://support.channelmaster.com/hc...ection-CM-7600)


It's no where as good as the DVR+'s PSIP handling that will show you all that the stations broadcast, but the Stream+ isn't a complete brick when it's not online.
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post #16574 of 16834 Old 06-12-2019, 09:11 PM
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The Stream+ will work in a more limited fashion without an Internet connection by populating up to 24 hours of PSIP data per channel (the describe the method to convert it to PSIP here: https://support.channelmaster.com/hc...ection-CM-7600)

It's no where as good as the DVR+'s PSIP handling that will show you all that the stations broadcast, but the Stream+ isn't a complete brick when it's not online.
From the link you posted:

"If you do not have the Stream+ connected to the internet, all channels will have 'limited recording options'. Series recordings will not be an option."

That would kill it for me. Series recordings, pausing live TV, guide grids and some of the other features on the DVR+ are like power windows and door locks on cars these days, i.e. they should be standard features on all DVR's. BTW, remember when air conditioners were options on cars? How did humans survive those dark ages? The plague would almost be preferable...
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post #16575 of 16834 Old 06-13-2019, 04:08 AM
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The external hard drives that I use all eventually quit the ability to pause or record. The Check Disk fixes it for a while. Is there a fix that saves the content? If not, does Re-Initalize Storage Device make it fully functional again? Thanks
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post #16576 of 16834 Old 06-13-2019, 05:42 AM
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The external hard drives that I use all eventually quit the ability to pause or record. The Check Disk fixes it for a while. Is there a fix that saves the content? If not, does Re-Initalize Storage Device make it fully functional again? Thanks
I have not heard of anyone having this issue before. Could you give us more details? What firmware version is your DVR+ on? What kind of hard drives are you using with it?

As for saving the content before re-initializing a drive, see here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hd...l#post44091658

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post #16577 of 16834 Old 06-13-2019, 06:02 AM
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From the link you posted:

"If you do not have the Stream+ connected to the internet, all channels will have 'limited recording options'. Series recordings will not be an option."

That would kill it for me. Series recordings, pausing live TV, guide grids and some of the other features on the DVR+ are like power windows and door locks on cars these days, i.e. they should be standard features on all DVR's. BTW, remember when air conditioners were options on cars? How did humans survive those dark ages? The plague would almost be preferable...

Yeah, it severely limits it. But unlike a Tivo without a subscription, at least it still functions as a tuner with some streaming capabilities, and can record programs "on the fly" that you select. Of the non-DVR+ options currently out there the Amazon Recast looks the best to me, but I'll wait until I have to replace the DVR+ unless something else that is more compelling comes along.
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post #16578 of 16834 Old 06-13-2019, 09:44 AM
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but I'll wait until I have to replace the DVR+ unless something else that is more compelling comes along.
I'm keeping an eye on the HDHomeRun hardware/software solutions available starting next month. I have tried HDHRs in the past and was disappointed in the tuners and the first versions of their DVR and live TV apps. They appear much better now.
I am still happy with my DVR+, unhappy with my Stream+ and only slightly concerned about watching TV in the future. I see enough choices that I'm pretty sure I'll survive.
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post #16579 of 16834 Old 06-13-2019, 10:48 AM
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I'm keeping an eye on the HDHomeRun hardware/software solutions available starting next month. I have tried HDHRs in the past and was disappointed in the tuners and the first versions of their DVR and live TV apps. They appear much better now.
I am still happy with my DVR+, unhappy with my Stream+ and only slightly concerned about watching TV in the future. I see enough choices that I'm pretty sure I'll survive.

I have a HD Homerun Duo but after the latest repack I had to disable it and remove the splitter from the antenna feed that was serving it. Signal strength is only enough now to serve one TV per antenna.



I don't really like the Slice Guide they use, and getting the DVR functions to work is a little awkward. They definitely need help in the UI department. Using it as a tuner for Plex's DVR service works well; the guide is the familiar grid-style guide, but the response time from Plex >> Roku is several seconds when you go to change channels. That delay is why I will never own a Tablo - it drives me crazy to wait 3 to 4 seconds with each channel change. It may be faster on a Fire stick, as my Roku 3 is pretty lightweight (there is no native HD Homerun app for the Roku, but both have a Plex app).
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post #16580 of 16834 Old 06-13-2019, 11:05 AM
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The external hard drives that I use all eventually quit the ability to pause or record. The Check Disk fixes it for a while. Is there a fix that saves the content? If not, does Re-Initalize Storage Device make it fully functional again? Thanks
I had the issue with my DVR+ where the ability to 'pause' live TV would no longer work. I found that it would occur when the drive would start becoming full (I can't remember the percentage). If I would delete enough recordings, it would start working again. That was on the latest firmware release. I don't remember if I ever had the issue on previous versions.
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post #16581 of 16834 Old 06-13-2019, 02:50 PM
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...I really hope that CM is paying attention to the apparent lag in Stream+ development and is looking for a real replacement for the DVR+...hopefully they are starting to see what they had, and could have again. Ditto for the DVR+ being the best DVR I have owned.
It seems to me that it would be in CM's best interest to continue to support the DVR+, if only to show the world that it backs up it's products. The ongoing disappointment with the current model may lead some to believe that CM will abandon it for it's next model and early adopters will be left "high and dry".
I ordered my DVR+ and a TIVO (I forget which model) at the same time with the intent of returning one. The TIVO went back, due to the DVR+ having a better tuner and no charge for schedule data.
Being a veteran of VCR's, I can continue to use my DVR+ if the schedule data goes away. I can get that from Zap2it or Titan TV and program manually.
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post #16582 of 16834 Old 06-13-2019, 05:52 PM
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It seems to me that it would be in CM's best interest to continue to support the DVR+, if only to show the world that it backs up it's products. The ongoing disappointment with the current model may lead some to believe that CM will abandon it for it's next model and early adopters will be left "high and dry".
I can see how it would be nice for CM to continue some support for the DVR+. But from a business standpoint, there isn't anything in it for them but some PR stroking in the hopes of building good will. They don't write the FW, and all DVR+ units are out of warranty now so they can't replace it. About all they can do in terms of support is have people answer e-mails and recommend a factory reset for every problem sent to them. Come to think of it, they don't really have to have a person responding to the e-mails. They could automatically scan the e-mails for the text string "DVR+", and send out an automated response recommending a factory reset. They contract with a guide provider, so they could continue to provide the guide. But that costs money. And as we speculated a while back, how many DVR+ units did CM sell in total? More than 25,000? Less than 10,000?
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post #16583 of 16834 Old 06-13-2019, 06:07 PM
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...But from a business standpoint, there isn't anything in it for them but some PR stroking in the hopes of building good will...
They could just continue to provide the guide . The unit is out of production, so there's no warranty, but perpetuating the guide (at least for a few more years) could be good PR.

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post #16584 of 16834 Old 06-14-2019, 09:39 AM
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there is no native HD Homerun app for the Roku.
Actually, as of this week, there is a beta HDHR app available for the Roku.

Which version of the HDHR duo do you have. Is it the most recent?
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post #16585 of 16834 Old 06-14-2019, 09:53 PM
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Actually, as of this week, there is a beta HDHR app available for the Roku.

Which version of the HDHR duo do you have. Is it the most recent?

I saw a review of the new Roku app on LonTV on YouTube. Looks like it streams live TV but not any recordings.



I have the HD Homerun Duo, and it's a couple of years old now.
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post #16586 of 16834 Old 06-18-2019, 03:48 AM
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The external hard drives that I use all eventually quit the ability to pause or record. The Check Disk fixes it for a while. Is there a fix that saves the content? If not, does Re-Initalize Storage Device make it fully functional again? Thanks
I use the Seagate and Western Digital USB drives that are suggested by CM. I formatted one using the DVR+ and it is now working correctly. I will try and delete most content on another to see if it improves. I tried DVR+ Lister but the windows machine gave me an unsafe warning. Being unsophisticated I abandoned it at the time. I guess I could try it again.
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post #16587 of 16834 Old 06-18-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
Samsung. I don't know how other TV's would be affected. Some TV's may have a setting to prevent this, and my backup plan of switching the TV source to "TV" instead of the input used for the DVR+ seems to keep that from happening. The HDMI1 input is always visible in the TV's source list, even if the DVR+ is in standby. HDMI2, which is used for my Philips DVDR is only visible when it is powered up, although it does come as soon as I hit the power button, several seconds before it has fully booted up. The DVR+ seems to have some kind of constant power connection with the TV.
Greasemonkey there is a thead for Samsung TV's maybe someone there might be able to help with your issue.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/tags/Samsung.html

Also I get a daily email ad from Fry's Electronics, everyday they have open boxed Samsung TV's that they are selling. This has been happening for years, how can they have that many open boxed Samsung TV's and why is Samsung TV's the only ones that they sell open box?

https://images.frys.com/art/email/06...=1674191#set11
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post #16588 of 16834 Old 06-18-2019, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by artisticimaging View Post
Greasemonkey there is a thead for Samsung TV's maybe someone there might be able to help with your issue.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/tags/Samsung.html

Also I get a daily email ad from Fry's Electronics, everyday they have open boxed Samsung TV's that they are selling. This has been happening for years, how can they have that many open boxed Samsung TV's and why is Samsung TV's the only ones that they sell open box?

https://images.frys.com/art/email/06...=1674191#set11
Thanks for the links. This issue isn't that big of a deal, as switching the Samsung to the TV input prevents the DVR+ from powering up the TV. Even if I forget to do that, the TV doesn't seem to power up every time. I haven't figured out a pattern to it yet, but it seems to happen when there is a recording scheduled on the DVR+ at the time of the power cutoff at 6:00PM. This is all very fringy, as I am not awake and looking at the TV for the 6:00AM power cutoff, when nothing is ever scheduled to record. It may be happening and I am just missing it. Either way, the input setting on the TV fixes the problem. The only other issue with the scheduled reboot has been that the clock on the DVR+ has sometimes been off by 3-5 minutes, which ironically is the same issue you and others have had recently. As for open box sales of Samsung TV's at Fry's, my guess would be that Samsung is the top brand of TV, so they cycle them out more to the floor, people return more of them, and Fry's end's up selling them. I don't think I would ever buy an open box or floor model TV. You don't know how long they have been running non-stop, and therefore how much life is left. They'd have to knock 90% off the price before I'd even consider it.
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post #16589 of 16834 Old 06-18-2019, 11:16 AM
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Man, I hate this repack...and I think it freaked out my DVR+

We had a channel (the 27.x series, KDFI) change frequencies at noon today (and more will over the next several days) and I was home, so I decided to watch it live and do the rescan. Sure enough, at the stroke of noon the channel went dark. I pulled up the full rescan option on the DVR+ and started the scan. While that was happening I switched inputs on the TV and did the same for my Philips DVDR.

When the DVR+ was finished, there was all kind's of craziness. There was absolutely no programming in the Guide (all channels were Unknown Events), and the Schedule had nothing but "Expired" by all the entries, which were greyed out. Even manual recordings were gone from the Schedule, though everything was intact for Series Options. I manually rebooted the DVR+, and Guide information returned. While it was populating I recreated the few manual programs I have, and then noticed a couple of Series Recordings had returned. But while hiding channels and streaming services I noticed that the repack had killed off more channels. A year ago I had 102 channels, after a few recent repacks I am down to 63 on the DVR+. But after rescanning my TV I saw that it had 73 channels. That means that in the repack, some of the LP stations probably moved to stations in Dallas that I am unable to receive. So I'll probably rotate my antenna slightly to see if that helps.

Just for kicks, I decided to rescan the DVR+ one more time. When it was finished, I had the exact same freaky results: No Guide information, no scheduled programs, etc. But this time I noticed that the date and time for the DVR+ was set to the incorrect time for mid-April. It's set for Auto Date and Time, so I have to think this had something to do with the repack, as this has never happened before. Switching the DVR+ to Manual Date and Time (I put in a wildly incorrect time) then back to Auto Date and Time fixed that, and just for good measure I rebooted the DVR+ again. That all happened about 40 minutes ago, and some of the scheduled programs have been restored and are now scheduled to record. The ones that aren't are still "on deck"; if I highlight them in the Schedule and press the "OK" button the option to add it to the series is present and I am going to let nature take it's course to see if they reschedule themselves.

This is all new behavior for the DVR+, and I have to think that the repack and required rescan has a lot to do with it. But the bottom line is that I really hate this freaking repack! And the good news is that I get to do it a few more times over the next few days.
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post #16590 of 16834 Old 06-18-2019, 11:35 AM
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When the DVR+ was finished, there was all kind's of craziness. There was absolutely no programming in the Guide
You did the rescan, but did you refresh the internet guide data?

.
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