Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 577 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17281 of 17434 Old 02-16-2020, 02:09 PM
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Another odd thing

I noticed when I press the button to record an "unknown event" it actually shows the name of the show in the record menu box. If the guide does not know the name, how does the dvr+ know? But while recording and when done, it shows no name.
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post #17282 of 17434 Old 02-16-2020, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by boogerhead View Post
I noticed when I press the button to record an "unknown event" it actually shows the name of the show in the record menu box. If the guide does not know the name, how does the dvr+ know? But while recording and when done, it shows no name.
I have seen this too. I think this happens when the time slot for the "unknown event" matches a program in your list of scheduled recordings. I assume you were manually setting a recording for a scheduled program that the DVR+ didn't select to record because the name did not match.

Recording by name is not as precise as they claim. I have seen may times when the DVR+ actually records a program in a time slot for a scheduled program, but some other show is actually on at that time and the other name is in the guide. The names don't match but it records the time slot anyway. It only happens sometimes.
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post #17283 of 17434 Old 02-17-2020, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
When ATSC 3.0 'arrives', it will enter the home via a 'router' similar to the Tablo TV DVR which will stream to whatever device is attached to your television.
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Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
Hopefully only the data collecting aspects (the part that "enhances the viewer's experience") will require a router. Since it's broadcast television, the main programming should certainly enter the home through the antenna. But I wouldn't be surprised if the full EPG comes through the router, leaving only PSIP data for the currently airing program delivered via broadcast. There is only so much bandwidth to work with, and the EPG might be the first to go so other nonsense features fit in what's left in the carrier signal after the visual programming gets crammed in there. If that happened it would kill one of the big draws of an OTA DVR, further driving viewers toward streaming.
You're both right. The intent is, your antenna will be hooked to what the 3.0 boosters call a "router," which will resemble a SiliconDust HDHomeRun network tuner, or (if it has DVR capability) a Tablo, AirTV, or Amazon Recast network DVR. Your TV(s) will then stream from the "router." This is meant to make it easy to integrate interactive features and targeted ads from the Internet with the content received by the antenna.

That said, there's no reason the tuner, er, "router" can't be built into a TV, so your antenna cable can hit that TV, then other TVs can "stream" from that one. There's also no reason you can't have more than one "router" on your home network; if every TV in your home has one, there'd be no need to stream any content aside from those interactive features and targeted ads. In that case, a multi-TV home may look pretty traditional, with coaxial cables running from an antenna through a splitter to each TV.

But Greasemonkey made a good point I hadn't thought of before. If your TVs, DVRs, and other "routers" are all expected to be hooked to the Internet, why bother with PSIP?

My only comment is that the issue isn't bandwidth. Even a detailed, 21-day EPG with graphical thumbnails for each show would require a minuscule fraction of the data rate that a single HD (let alone 4K) video broadcast takes. Broadcasters may claim they need to dispense with PSIP "to serve man" - er, I mean "to save bandwidth" - but that should be recognized as a lame cover for their true motive: Profit! Just force everyone to get their EPGs from the Internet (for a fee, of course), making the idea of going "off the grid" (and avoiding those targeted ads) that much less attractive.
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post #17284 of 17434 Old 02-17-2020, 12:17 PM
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I do not believe they do PSIP for the good of humanity. My recollection is that PSIP is mandated as part of the 'digital transition'.

I don't expect the PSIP requirement to be waived as there are MANY homes in the US with no high speed internet and I can see this becoming more common as phones assume more of the connected roles of the home computer.

Eventually, I suspect TV will be delivered over the same frequencies as phone calls and the world wide web. For now, I expect things to remain pretty much as they are and have been...which is good for the consumer.
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post #17285 of 17434 Old 02-18-2020, 06:20 PM
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I don't expect the PSIP requirement to be waived as there are MANY homes in the US with no high speed internet and I can see this becoming more common as phones assume more of the connected roles of the home computer.
Hmmm...so by the time ATSC 3.0 becomes totally ingrained, the next DVR branded by CM might be an app you download to your phone. They reduce the profile of their next DVR from a tablet to a phone, and eliminate the hardware middleman in the process. And when the guide doesn't work they will already have on file their pro forma responses left over from...now.
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post #17286 of 17434 Old 02-18-2020, 10:15 PM
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Smile PSIP on digital TV

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I do not believe they do PSIP for the good of humanity. My recollection is that PSIP is mandated as part of the 'digital transition'.
The way I see it the whole change to digital, including PSIP, is "for the good of humanity." It was defined and mandated by our federal government as they should do for the people.
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post #17287 of 17434 Old 02-19-2020, 12:41 AM
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In case you didn't actually read what I posted or I was unclear...
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
I don't expect the PSIP requirement to be waived as there are MANY homes in the US with no high speed internet and I can see this becoming more common as phones assume more of the connected roles of the home computer.

Eventually, I suspect TV will be delivered over the same frequencies as phone calls and the world wide web. For now, I expect things to remain pretty much as they are and have been...which is good for the consumer.
Because your post seems to be completely unrelated...
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Hmmm...so by the time ATSC 3.0 becomes totally ingrained, the next DVR branded by CM might be an app you download to your phone. They reduce the profile of their next DVR from a tablet to a phone, and eliminate the hardware middleman in the process. And when the guide doesn't work they will already have on file their pro forma responses left over from...now.
Not sure CM is going to market another OTA DVR. Not exactly their forte, right?
  1. I have two older sisters who rely 100% on iPads and iPhones for their connectivity. Both have their devices tethered to a phone plan and neither have an internet service provider, per se. Both rely on a satellite dish for television and one has a DVR+ and antenna at her camp.
  2. When Verizon installed fiber in my home about a decade ago, the tech told me that Verizon was planning to deliver services wirelessly eventually. With the arrival of 5G, this seems feasible.

Hope that helps.
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post #17288 of 17434 Old 02-19-2020, 01:01 AM
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The way I see it the whole change to digital, including PSIP, is "for the good of humanity." It was defined and mandated by our federal government as they should do for the people.
Not sure what country you are in, comrade, but Digital TV was mandated for the benefit of the cell service and entertainment companies (Comcast, AT&T, and NAB are listed among the top lobbyists in Washington). The cost/benefit to consumers and the planet was negative. Extremely negative. The transition was mandated because the benefit of the change was not sufficient to warrant a voluntary transition.

HDTV, 4K, and digital are nice, but, if you tally the costs of all the hardware, software, and services you have incurred as a consequence of the transition, you probably would not write that check. If you measured the volume of landfill created as a consequence of the digital transition, you might be shocked.
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post #17289 of 17434 Old 02-19-2020, 02:22 AM
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So I'm guessing from what I'm reading that there is no longer any reason to keep this unit connected to the internet?
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post #17290 of 17434 Old 02-19-2020, 04:18 AM
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Exclamation

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So I'm guessing from what I'm reading that there is no longer any reason to keep this unit connected to the internet?
I would say the reason is there... for while... 14 days EPG.
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post #17291 of 17434 Old 02-19-2020, 07:16 AM
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So I'm guessing from what I'm reading that there is no longer any reason to keep this unit connected to the internet?
Also, for keeping time. My unit is horrible at keeping time without the Internet connection.
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post #17292 of 17434 Old 02-19-2020, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
I do not believe they do PSIP for the good of humanity. My recollection is that PSIP is mandated as part of the 'digital transition'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahanner View Post
The way I see it the whole change to digital, including PSIP, is "for the good of humanity." It was defined and mandated by our federal government as they should do for the people.
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
Not sure what country you are in, comrade, but Digital TV was mandated for the benefit of the cell service and entertainment companies....
Well, that's "humanity" as Washington typically sees it Edit: That said, I think the transition (particularly with the subsidized converter boxes and PSIP mandate) did benefit us peons in many ways (although I think everyone knows I'm far more cynical about the more recent spectrum auction and repacking).
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Eventually, I suspect TV will be delivered over the same frequencies as phone calls and the world wide web. For now, I expect things to remain pretty much as they are and have been...which is good for the consumer.
I was going to mention earlier that it's technically feasible to deliver TV over 5G, but decided not to post. Perhaps I should have.

Of course that would obsolete ATSC entirely (1.0 as well as 3.0), and I'm not sure OTA TV would remain free under such a model.... At any rate, the possibility just adds to the uncertainty over the future of TV. I long ago decided to base my TV equipment purchases on what's available now - or can be foreseen with reasonable certainty (as with the analog-to-digital transition and the more recent spectrum repacking, which had reasonably definite cutover dates).

ATSC 3.0 and TV-over-5G are still a bit too much in the vaporware phase at this point. We know there will be 3.0 stations, but we don't know how many, or when, or how DRM-restricted they'll be, or how long 1.0 and 3.0 will coexist (although we've been told at least five years). And 5G is even less definite than that. So "holding out" for either 3.0 or 5G (which was the suggestion that started this whole digression) is still a bit premature IMO.
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post #17293 of 17434 Old 02-19-2020, 06:02 PM
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Missing guide

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So I'm guessing from what I'm reading that there is no longer any reason to keep this unit connected to the internet?

I have reason to connect but no luck getting any guide update. After a factory reset and cold reboots the message is the same on two units "Unable to get internet guide update time". All internet functions are solid and noted as connected on both as well.
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post #17294 of 17434 Old 02-19-2020, 08:02 PM
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I have reason to connect but no luck getting any guide update. After a factory reset and cold reboots the message is the same on two units "Unable to get internet guide update time". All internet functions are solid and noted as connected on both as well.
What firmware version are you using? It's got to be v135R now, or no dice...
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post #17295 of 17434 Old 02-19-2020, 08:45 PM
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What firmware version are you using? It's got to be v135R now, or no dice...
Both are v135R. Also other CE devices (Yamaha RX-V473 network enabled receiver ) work with no issues.
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post #17296 of 17434 Old 02-19-2020, 10:25 PM
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Not sure what country you are in, comrade, but Digital TV was mandated for the benefit of the cell service and entertainment companies (Comcast, AT&T, and NAB are listed among the top lobbyists in Washington). The cost/benefit to consumers and the planet was negative. Extremely negative. The transition was mandated because the benefit of the change was not sufficient to warrant a voluntary transition.

HDTV, 4K, and digital are nice, but, if you tally the costs of all the hardware, software, and services you have incurred as a consequence of the transition, you probably would not write that check. If you measured the volume of landfill created as a consequence of the digital transition, you might be shocked.
I didn't say anything about the motivations that lead to HDTV and better sound. I started reading about it 20 years before it happened then waited a long time. I would have written the check. Would you rather we didn't have it. There would be no DVR+ for you to complain about. Stop being a Debby Downer.
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post #17297 of 17434 Old 02-20-2020, 12:07 AM
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I didn't say anything about the motivations that lead to HDTV and better sound. I started reading about it 20 years before it happened then waited a long time. I would have written the check. Would you rather we didn't have it. There would be no DVR+ for you to complain about. Stop being a Debby Downer.
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post #17298 of 17434 Old 02-20-2020, 06:09 AM
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I have reason to connect but no luck getting any guide update. After a factory reset and cold reboots the message is the same on two units "Unable to get internet guide update time". All internet functions are solid and noted as connected on both as well.
The only thing left to try is a different Zip code in your area. That actually did work for me, although I still have no idea why the original Zip code stopped working.
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post #17299 of 17434 Old 02-20-2020, 08:16 AM
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I'll keep checking this thread to see when people say they are getting the 14 days of guide data (or even 7), but I've given up for now. Even when the data populated there were too many errors and unknown events. I'm using the 00000 method and a digital timer to reboot the DVR+ at 5AM.

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I would say the reason is there... for while... 14 days EPG.
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post #17300 of 17434 Old 02-20-2020, 01:09 PM
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I'll keep checking this thread to see when people say they are getting the 14 days of guide data (or even 7), but I've given up for now. Even when the data populated there were too many errors and unknown events. I'm using the 00000 method and a digital timer to reboot the DVR+ at 5AM.
If you are curious about how much PSIP data you are getting for each channel there is an easy way to check it. Following a reboot, wait 25 minutes. This will allow enough time for the Guide to populate all the channels with the maximum amount of PSIP data the stations provide. If you waited 30 minutes it bumps one time slot past the maximum, which could cause you to see slightly less. Pull up the Guide and press the button for the lowest channel number you receive (in Dallas it will be channel 2) and press OK. This sends the Guide to that channel, placing it at the top of the grid. Once there, press the Jump Forward button, located just above the Audio button on the flat remote. I'm not sure what button it is on the peanut shaped remote. This jumps the Guide forward in 24 hour increments. Keep pressing it until all the channels in the grid are showing Unknown Event. Then press the "<<" button, located just above the Jump Back button on the left side of the flat remote. This takes you back in 2 hour increments. Note the time and days when you see the line that delineates named programming from Unknown Events, and repeat the process until you cross the line for the station that provides the least amount of PSIP data. In Dallas this will be channel 2. Press the Jump Back button (24 hour increments) to get back to the current time. Press the Page Down button to get to the next page in the Guide and repeat the Jump Forward/Back process for the channels on this page. In Dallas you should find that PBS provides about 72 hours of PSIP data, which is the most. Some of the other channels are only providing 9 hours, but most of the major network affiliates provide at least 24.
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post #17301 of 17434 Old 02-20-2020, 09:01 PM
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The only thing left to try is a different Zip code in your area. That actually did work for me, although I still have no idea why the original Zip code stopped working.
Your recommendation worked (Thanks!). In an odd twist, the titantv.com guide typically based it's guide on Ashland (Or.) Fiber Network. With that in mind I used 97520 and the DVR+ guide came up with all correct channel origins but only one week (2/28) on most channels. The bad apple is KTVL (CBS) the old (ROVI) TV Guide source for the DTV Pal DVR (3 in operation with a few new caps) which only had the mandated 12 hour courtesy guide.
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I love reading the comments, allot, and now I don't feel so .. alone



This thing is a piece of crap, but it works so I still love it and all the glitches. It's engineered as a stand alone buy it once, I hope it works for you, return it if it doesn't, and it is a consumer product, for what it does, it's amazing. It is literally engineered for social security budget levels. And, the reboots, so classic! I want a 2 TB hard drive for it at least, how about 10 TB.



I found out hooking it up directly to a router really smoothed anything internet from locking it up.



The tuner really could be better, I mean c'mon, this is channelmaster, I have two separate brand TV's, and they both can do better.



This thing seems like it has a mind of it's own, just like the windows 10 box I'm burning in.



I like the microphone thingy on the remote, saying things like "black screen sleeping music" seem to work to find things for sleeping and/or mood music, and for some reason youtube is not killing us with adds, whats up with that.
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post #17303 of 17434 Old 02-21-2020, 05:49 AM
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everything,


I don't really know how to respond to your post other than to say whatever you are smoking stop immediately!
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post #17304 of 17434 Old 02-21-2020, 06:14 AM
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...the DVR+ guide came up with all correct channel origins but only one week (2/28) on most channels.
That's what we all got. In the good ole days, we'd get a rolling 14 days of data. Now, every 1 1/2 weeks or so, they provide new data that winds up being static. Until the next 1 1/2 weeks pass.
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post #17305 of 17434 Old 02-21-2020, 06:56 AM
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Unhappy

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That's what we all got. In the good ole days, we'd get a rolling 14 days of data. Now, every 1 1/2 weeks or so, they provide new data that winds up being static. Until the next 1 1/2 weeks pass.
Perhaps they are testing a water before shut the pipe.
Gathering statistics how many complains they will find in their files after will shut the EPG feature of a product(s) what been selling with it.
May be trying to avoid class action lawsuit ?
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post #17306 of 17434 Old 02-21-2020, 11:00 AM
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GM, yep, what you stated is what I've been doing more or less. As you say, a few channels populate for less than 24 hours, but I can deal with that since they are the ones I don't typically watch.

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If you are curious about how much PSIP data you are getting for each channel there is an easy way to check it. Following a reboot, wait 25 minutes. This will allow enough time for the Guide to populate all the channels with the maximum amount of PSIP data the stations provide. If you waited 30 minutes it bumps one time slot past the maximum, which could cause you to see slightly less. Pull up the Guide and press the button for the lowest channel number you receive (in Dallas it will be channel 2) and press OK. This sends the Guide to that channel, placing it at the top of the grid. Once there, press the Jump Forward button, located just above the Audio button on the flat remote. I'm not sure what button it is on the peanut shaped remote. This jumps the Guide forward in 24 hour increments. Keep pressing it until all the channels in the grid are showing Unknown Event. Then press the "<<" button, located just above the Jump Back button on the left side of the flat remote. This takes you back in 2 hour increments. Note the time and days when you see the line that delineates named programming from Unknown Events, and repeat the process until you cross the line for the station that provides the least amount of PSIP data. In Dallas this will be channel 2. Press the Jump Back button (24 hour increments) to get back to the current time. Press the Page Down button to get to the next page in the Guide and repeat the Jump Forward/Back process for the channels on this page. In Dallas you should find that PBS provides about 72 hours of PSIP data, which is the most. Some of the other channels are only providing 9 hours, but most of the major network affiliates provide at least 24.
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post #17307 of 17434 Old 02-21-2020, 11:12 AM
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I love reading the comments, allot, and now I don't feel so .. alone

This thing is a piece of crap, but it works so I still love it and all the glitches. It's engineered as a stand alone buy it once, I hope it works for you, return it if it doesn't, and it is a consumer product, for what it does, it's amazing. It is literally engineered for social security budget levels. And, the reboots, so classic! I want a 2 TB hard drive for it at least, how about 10 TB.

I found out hooking it up directly to a router really smoothed anything internet from locking it up.

The tuner really could be better, I mean c'mon, this is channel master, I have two separate brand TV's, and they both can do better.

This thing seems like it has a mind of it's own, just like the windows 10 box I'm burning in.

I like the microphone thingy on the remote, saying things like "black screen sleeping music" seem to work to find things for sleeping and/or mood music, and for some reason YouTube is not killing us with ads, whats up with that.
I was reading this, and everything sort of made sense until that "microphone thingy" bit, and then I realized: He's talking about a Stream+ and posted in the wrong thread!
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post #17308 of 17434 Old 02-22-2020, 09:54 PM
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I was reading this, and everything sort of made sense until that "microphone thingy" bit, and then I realized: He's talking about a Stream+ and posted in the wrong thread!
LOL...I got the same impression, but I keyed in on the "social security budget levels" comment. I knew it couldn't be the DVR+ after that!
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post #17309 of 17434 Old 02-23-2020, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
Perhaps they are testing a water before shut the pipe.
Gathering statistics how many complains they will find in their files after will shut the EPG feature of a product(s) what been selling with it.
May be trying to avoid class action lawsuit ?
Plenty of precedent for pulling the plug on a Lifetime EPG. Lots of devices used/sold Rovi's OTA EPG. When Rovi pulled their equipment from the broadcasters, DTVPal owners switched to PSIP which is what will happen with the DVR+. Much better than when Real Simple Software pulled the plug on their guide service -- their Simple TV DVRs simply stopped working. Probably just some box in a rack in a room no one pays much attention to that hangs up from time to time. When the right guy gets an email, he cycles power and things start working again.
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post #17310 of 17434 Old 02-23-2020, 08:44 AM
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My 2011 Sony TV came with a Rovi TV Guide, it reverted to PSIP w/o internet.

By 2015 Rovi pulled support and according to the Sony Community Support forum, it was Rovi and not Sony responsible. Something to do with (Rovi's) not supporting older TV's. ....

It had contained unobtrusive advertising, but was overall much more capable than DVR+ version including a PIP window for all listings and much better program info. After Rovi died, the PSIP was spotty or non-existent.
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