TiVo Roamio OTA DVR - Page 78 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2311 of 3355 Old 08-07-2017, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PDlovesTV View Post
I have an issue with my Roamio OTA, that has persisted almost from the beginning. I am using an indoor multi-directional antenna (in fact I have tried several of them), and can pick up a decent number of local stations. The issue is one station in particular. It is at 60+ % on the signal meter, which is one of the best of all the channels, yet the Roamio gives the "no signal" message when tuning into the station. What gives? I've tried a hard reset, to no avail. I've tried the switching back and forth between channels trick and it has worked a couple of times, but it is not reliable as 90% of the time I can't get the station to tune in on the Tivo. The channel shows up when doing the strength meter, but it won't show up when tuning into it from the guide.I can tune to the channel from the TV, but not from the Roamio. It's very frustrating! Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
I have a had a similar issue with one of my channels since I've had the Roamio OTA, and it is definitely NOT a signal strength issue. The station is WANN in Atlanta, virtual channel 32 (RF 29 I believe). The station has about 20 sub-channels (!! not a typo.), and some of them play fine on the Tivo, while some won't. Whereas on a regular TV tuner they are are all playable. This station is also a very primitive, low power operation (and I would guess very low budget too), so I am guessing there is a misconfiguration issue with how the sub-channels are described in the bitstream (PSIP) that renders the Tivo unable or unwilling to display the content. If it were a simple signal strength issue it is hard to explain why some of the subchannels are decoded fine, since all of them are multiplexed together as one big blob of 18 megabits/second.
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post #2312 of 3355 Old 08-08-2017, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by tustinfarm View Post
I have a had a similar issue with one of my channels since I've had the Roamio OTA, and it is definitely NOT a signal strength issue. The station is WANN in Atlanta, virtual channel 32 (RF 29 I believe). The station has about 20 sub-channels (!! not a typo.), and some of them play fine on the Tivo, while some won't. Whereas on a regular TV tuner they are are all playable. This station is also a very primitive, low power operation (and I would guess very low budget too), so I am guessing there is a misconfiguration issue with how the sub-channels are described in the bitstream (PSIP) that renders the Tivo unable or unwilling to display the content. If it were a simple signal strength issue it is hard to explain why some of the subchannels are decoded fine, since all of them are multiplexed together as one big blob of 18 megabits/second.
This is strange. I can't find a station WANN or any channel on virtual 32. Also, TiVo does not process the PSIP. To see what your guide should look like, try tvguide.com or tv.com since both are using the same database as TiVo.

https://nocable.org/availability-rep...345-atlanta-ga
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post #2313 of 3355 Old 08-08-2017, 07:15 AM
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We don't have a station in my area with 20 sub channels. But we have one with ten or twelve. And those all play fine on my TiVo OTA.

But the station here is split between two broadcasts. So half the channels are broadcast on one frequency and half on another. And then they are all subs of one channel. But even that way they are all bitstarved SD channels. How does the broadcast work with twenty subchannels?

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post #2314 of 3355 Old 08-08-2017, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by PDlovesTV View Post
I have an issue with my Roamio OTA, that has persisted almost from the beginning. I am using an indoor multi-directional antenna (in fact I have tried several of them), and can pick up a decent number of local stations. The issue is one station in particular. It is at 60+ % on the signal meter, which is one of the best of all the channels, yet the Roamio gives the "no signal" message when tuning into the station. What gives? I've tried a hard reset, to no avail. I've tried the switching back and forth between channels trick and it has worked a couple of times, but it is not reliable as 90% of the time I can't get the station to tune in on the Tivo. The channel shows up when doing the strength meter, but it won't show up when tuning into it from the guide.I can tune to the channel from the TV, but not from the Roamio. It's very frustrating! Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
I had this issue once with my local PBS station, .1 and .2 wouldn't decode, but .3 and .4 were fine. I emailed the engineer, and it was fixed right away.

That V53 error means a signal is being received but it contains no transport stream data under the "program number" (shown in DVR Diagnostics) which is being decoded.

Email the station engineer, and tell him the issue you are having, and ask him to check that. It IS a PSIP data issue (NOT psip GUIDE info), and Tivo does need that info to properly decode.
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post #2315 of 3355 Old 08-08-2017, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
We don't have a station in my area with 20 sub channels. But we have one with ten or twelve. And those all play fine on my TiVo OTA.

But the station here is split between two broadcasts. So half the channels are broadcast on one frequency and half on another. And then they are all subs of one channel. But even that way they are all bitstarved SD channels. How does the broadcast work with twenty subchannels?
I should have clarified that about half of the 20 subchannels are just FM station audio feeds. That said, the video channels for Channel 32 in Atlanta (RF 29) are miserable in terms of video quality, significantly worse than VHS video recorded at the slowest EP speed, back in the day , for those old enough to remember what that means.

There is a sister low power station in Atlanta on channel 26 (RF 30), also with a set of bitstarved subchannels, owned by the same company (Prism Broadcasting).

The Tivo OTA guide data generally matches the reality (I use the word generally in a very generous way here) of the channel content, but unfortunately both stations are such low power/budget operations that they do not respond to either phone or email messages to alert them about problems that prevent them being watched on the Tivo. Heck, I'd gladly donate my free time to help them fix the technical issues...if only the could be reached.
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post #2316 of 3355 Old 08-08-2017, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
I had this issue once with my local PBS station, .1 and .2 wouldn't decode, but .3 and .4 were fine. I emailed the engineer, and it was fixed right away.

That V53 error means a signal is being received but it contains no transport stream data under the "program number" (shown in DVR Diagnostics) which is being decoded.

Email the station engineer, and tell him the issue you are having, and ask him to check that. It IS a PSIP data issue (NOT psip GUIDE info), and Tivo does need that info to properly decode.
In the past I've never gotten any email responses from the station, which is a low power station. Thanks for confirming my suspicion about it being a PSIP data issue...but I still find it odd that my regular TV tuners (both old and newer) can tune in the entire array of the subchannels. Only the Tivo OTA is picky about which ones it will decode.
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post #2317 of 3355 Old 08-08-2017, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tustinfarm View Post
In the past I've never gotten any email responses from the station, which is a low power station. Thanks for confirming my suspicion about it being a PSIP data issue...but I still find it odd that my regular TV tuners (both old and newer) can tune in the entire array of the subchannels. Only the Tivo OTA is picky about which ones it will decode.
You are thinking wrong. A tv set, or ANY device except a dvr does NOT need that PSIP data to decode, only a dvr needs it. Not just a Tivo dvr, but any dvr that records OTA using OTA PSIP data.

Try emailing whatever programmer they are rebroadcasting. IE, if it's say Comet, email them, if another, email them. Give them the stations call letters, and explain whats going on. Maybe they can get it fixed for you. I've done it, and it's worked for me.

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post #2318 of 3355 Old 08-08-2017, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
You are thinking wrong. A tv set, or ANY device except a dvr does NOT need that PSIP data to decode, only a dvr needs it. Not just a Tivo dvr, but any dvr that records OTA using OTA PSIP data.

Try emailing whatever programmer they are rebroadcasting. IE, if it's say Comet, email them, if another, email them. Give them the stations call letters, and explain whats going on. Maybe they can get it fixed for you. I've done it, and it's worked for me.
Interesting ....

I mean while I'll take your word for it. I don't understand either why the ATSC tuners of a DVR needs to consult the PSIP mapping data of the virtual display channel to the program channel, whereas others such as the TV's ATSC tuners do not ...

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post #2319 of 3355 Old 08-08-2017, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
You are thinking wrong. A tv set, or ANY device except a dvr does NOT need that PSIP data to decode, only a dvr needs it. Not just a Tivo dvr, but any dvr that records OTA using OTA PSIP data.

Try emailing whatever programmer they are rebroadcasting. IE, if it's say Comet, email them, if another, email them. Give them the stations call letters, and explain whats going on. Maybe they can get it fixed for you. I've done it, and it's worked for me.
Except the TiVo does not use the PSIP data for recording. DVR+ can use it (if not connected to the internet) ... M-Star based boxes use it (and have to, since they don't have an internal clock) ... but TiVo does not use PSIP data for any recording function.
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post #2320 of 3355 Old 08-08-2017, 08:13 PM
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Except the TiVo does not use the PSIP data for recording. DVR+ can use it (if not connected to the internet) ... M-Star based boxes use it (and have to, since they don't have an internal clock) ... but TiVo does not use PSIP data for any recording function.
You are wrong, it uses the transport stream data it strips from PSIP info to get the specific "program number". PSIP is not just guide data. See below, and feel free to check it at Tivocommunity. I got the below directly from Tivo themselves, when I had the issue and filed a ticket with them. I then contacted the station engineer, told him what Tivo said, and he restored that data. My .1 and .2 channel then restored itself.

That V53 error means a signal is being received but it contains no transport stream data under the "program number" (shown in DVR Diagnostics) which is being decoded.

This is for sure true with the Roamio and above models, that only have digital tuners, and receive OTA signals.

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post #2321 of 3355 Old 08-09-2017, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
You are thinking wrong. A tv set, or ANY device except a dvr does NOT need that PSIP data to decode, only a dvr needs it. Not just a Tivo dvr, but any dvr that records OTA using OTA PSIP data.

Try emailing whatever programmer they are rebroadcasting. IE, if it's say Comet, email them, if another, email them. Give them the stations call letters, and explain whats going on. Maybe they can get it fixed for you. I've done it, and it's worked for me.
Primestar31 - thanks for shining a light on the mystery of why my plain TV tuners are acting in a different manner than the Tivo DVR. And indeed, Comet is one of the problem sub-channels, so I will try contacting that network rather than the station, on the chance they can actually get the attention of Channel 32 (WANN Atlanta) about the problem.
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post #2322 of 3355 Old 08-09-2017, 05:49 AM
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Primestar31 - thanks for shining a light on the mystery of why my plain TV tuners are acting in a different manner than the Tivo DVR. And indeed, Comet is one of the problem sub-channels, so I will try contacting that network rather than the station, on the chance they can actually get the attention of Channel 32 (WANN Atlanta) about the problem.
And from an edification standpoint, thanks from me for this info. as well .... even though I'm not experiencing this problem on any of my local stations' sub-channels at present.

Though as I said before, I'd still like to understand why an OTA DVR need this portion of the PSIP data to properly tune a sub-channel, but a others like a TV ATSC tuner does not ...

Logically, it would seem like they should both require this data since what you do with a DTV broadcast subsequent to receiving and decoding it. Whether to only display it, record it to an HDD, or both, should be irrelevant to the process of initially receiving it with the front end IRD circuitry to begin with ...

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post #2323 of 3355 Old 08-09-2017, 05:58 AM
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And from an edification standpoint, thanks from me for this info. as well .... even though I'm not experiencing this problem on any of my local stations' sub-channels at present.

Though as I said before, I'd still like to understand why an OTA DVR need this portion of the PSIP data to properly tune a sub-channel, but a others like a TV ATSC tuner does not ...

Logically, it would seem like they should both require this data since what you do with a DTV broadcast subsequent to receiving and decoding it. Whether to only display it, record it to an HDD, or both, should be irrelevant to the process of initially receiving it with the front end IRD circuitry to begin with ...

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I'm not 100% sure on this, but I THINK it's that the PSIP "Program Number" transport stream gets matched to the internet provided guide data from Tivo. THEIR guide data for instance, says that "program number 5" on channel WNEM 5-3 (Cozi tv) at 8:30am EST 08/09/2017 is "The Lone Ranger".

I just pulled that "program number" from my diagnostic info, as I am actually live-watching that channel right now, and that's the number at the moment. IF that program number data "5" was not there, the channel would be BLANK, though show a signal. That's what happened to me last year on my local PBS station.

It might be a bit more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it as was explained to me.
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post #2324 of 3355 Old 08-09-2017, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
I had this issue once with my local PBS station, .1 and .2 wouldn't decode, but .3 and .4 were fine. I emailed the engineer, and it was fixed right away.

That V53 error means a signal is being received but it contains no transport stream data under the "program number" (shown in DVR Diagnostics) which is being decoded.

Email the station engineer, and tell him the issue you are having, and ask him to check that. It IS a PSIP data issue (NOT psip GUIDE info), and Tivo does need that info to properly decode.
I had this issue (CBS in my case) with DVBLink and thought it was their DVR software. I went and purchased a TiVo since I didn't want to miss recordings and sure enough it had the same issue. After an email to the station engineer it was resolved almost instantly.
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post #2325 of 3355 Old 08-16-2017, 01:21 PM
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The $300 OTA+lifetime offer appears to be over with -- it was also too good to be true so I'm not surprised at the less-than 1 week window. I still think someone at TiVo goofed big-time on that one. Kudos to those who jumped on it and kudos to TiVo for honoring it. I highly doubt we'll ever see that offer again.

Although not nearly as good as $300, I see there are still a couple of OTA+lifetime offers on the table that have been persistent and are good deals for OTA users compared to buying a full Roamio+Lifetime. My big objection to Roamio OTA when it came out was the lack of a lifetime option. Without that, Roamio OTA was simply a bad purchase. These offers take away that objection and I just wanted to call attention to them because they are so easy to miss.

https://www.tivo.com/tlp3
Lets you buy an OTA+lifetime for $450 with a single payment. Not as good as the $300 offer but still significantly better than the cost for a Roamio Basic+lifetime. This deal puts it only $150 above the cost of a DVR+. That's a reasonable increment to move up from the DVR+ to the full feature set of a Roamio.

https://www.tivo.com/tlp6
Is very intriguing for the cash strapped. It lets you buy and OTA+lifetime for $480 but without having to put any money down. You pay $20/month over a 2yr period and you are done. The extra $30 you have to pay is basically the 2yr finance charge (6%).
Wow... I'm dredging up this old post.... Turns out a friend of mine bought this TLP6 Plan and has been paying for it for the past 2-plus years. Now it turns out that Rovi/TiVo has applied some revisionist marketing tactics, and are claiming that this plan was never actually what it appeared to be on its face. Please see this post and adjacent posts on the TiVo Community Forum.

Is there anyone else here on AVS that went in for this TLP6 deal, and successfuly received the Roamio OTA with Lifetime as the original offer appeared to state?

Original Offer

To anyone interested in a Google Chromebox or Chromebook..
Be aware that these boxes run a variant of Linux and DO NOT support HDCP!!!
This means no support for HD on most streaming services. I wish I would have known this beforehand....

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post #2326 of 3355 Old 08-25-2017, 06:34 AM
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Wow... I'm dredging up this old post.... Turns out a friend of mine bought this TLP6 Plan and has been paying for it for the past 2-plus years. Now it turns out that Rovi/TiVo has applied some revisionist marketing tactics, and are claiming that this plan was never actually what it appeared to be on its face. Please see this post and adjacent posts on the TiVo Community Forum.

Is there anyone else here on AVS that went in for this TLP6 deal, and successfuly received the Roamio OTA with Lifetime as the original offer appeared to state?

Original Offer
Those were extremely terrible plans. I remember when they came out. You were paying more for the box and then paying a service fee indefinitely. Just for the privilege of paying nothing up front. I wondered how many people pick those extremely terrible plans.

You paid nothing up front and then paid monthly for the box over two years. But then you were paying a service fee monthly indefinitely after that if you continued to get TiVo service. Instead of having the normal lifetime service on it.

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post #2327 of 3355 Old 08-25-2017, 11:35 AM
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I'm getting my Roamio OTA today and am pretty sure about setup, but I have a couple of questions.
The Roamio is 1080p. Some shows on Amazon Prime are 4K. I'm guessing that it wont pass thru the 4K signal, but convert it to 1080p. Is this correct?
I'm also getting a Mini. I see from the manual that it does not have wi-fi connection, only a hardwire network connection. What type of wireless adapter/bridge can I get to go from my modem then to the mini via network cable. Please excuse my ignorance. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that can't run a cable to a far room, so I'm sure there is such a thing. I'm just not sure what its called.

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post #2328 of 3355 Old 08-25-2017, 12:19 PM
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I'm getting my Roamio OTA today and am pretty sure about setup, but I have a couple of questions.
The Roamio is 1080p. Some shows on Amazon Prime are 4K. I'm guessing that it wont pass thru the 4K signal, but convert it to 1080p. Is this correct?
I'm also getting a Mini. I see from the manual that it does not have wi-fi connection, only a hardwire network connection. What type of wireless adapter/bridge can I get to go from my modem then to the mini via network cable. Please excuse my ignorance. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that can't run a cable to a far room, so I'm sure there is such a thing. I'm just not sure what its called.

Thanks,
Tom
If you are posting that a wire (coax or Ethernet) can not be run to the Mini, then what's your budget and distance? What's the model of your router?
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post #2329 of 3355 Old 08-25-2017, 12:39 PM
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If you are posting that a wire (coax or Ethernet) can not be run to the Mini, then what's your budget and distance? What's the model of your router?
Running an ethernet cable cable to the mini is not impossible,but not easy. But I would rather use a wireless solution if possible. Network cable is available for the Roamio.
My router is DSL from Xfinity- I don't know the model. I do get excellent w-fi reception to my laptop in the same room that the Mini will be in.
Budget- I hope I can find some sort of solution for under $50.

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Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post
Running an ethernet cable cable to the mini is not impossible,but not easy. But I would rather use a wireless solution if possible. Network cable is available for the Roamio.
My router is DSL from Xfinity- I don't know the model. I do get excellent w-fi reception to my laptop in the same room that the Mini will be in.
Budget- I hope I can find some sort of solution for under $50.

Tom
Two strikes: unknown router power and low budget. Run the CAT-5 cable.

I use a Netgear R8000 router. The Mini units use either a Linksys WUMC710 or RE6500. All Mini have a smart TV that also shares the bridge. It's 99.9% uptime, and spread between two houses, two floors, and four rooms. You control the wires. You have no control over the atmosphere/environment.
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post #2331 of 3355 Old 08-25-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post
Running an ethernet cable cable to the mini is not impossible,but not easy. But I would rather use a wireless solution if possible. Network cable is available for the Roamio.
My router is DSL from Xfinity- I don't know the model. I do get excellent w-fi reception to my laptop in the same room that the Mini will be in.
Budget- I hope I can find some sort of solution for under $50.

Tom
Since most people already have Coax in nearly every room, MOCA was invented and works great with Tivo Minis. Are you saying that room has no coax either? While a few can get wireless to work with a Mini, it's not the ideal solution.
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post #2332 of 3355 Old 08-25-2017, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Since most people already have Coax in nearly every room, MOCA was invented and works great with Tivo Minis. Are you saying that room has no coax either? While a few can get wireless to work with a Mini, it's not the ideal solution.
I must be one of those people who doesn't have coax in every room. I haven't had cable for 20+ years- been using satellite. My modem is connected to a phone line-DSL- any way.
I have a cat6 cable on order and I'll run it to the mini.
I have to say that I was quite surprised that it doesn't come with wi-fi built in.

Thanks for your help guys.

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post #2333 of 3355 Old 08-25-2017, 04:17 PM
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How did your satellite boxes work without any coax?
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post #2334 of 3355 Old 08-27-2017, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
How did your satellite boxes work without any coax?
The coax cable from the satellite dish to the Dish Hopper. My OTA antenna plugged into the back of the Hopper. The Joey (similar to the Mini) connected by wi-fi to the Hopper. No hard wiring needed to the auxilliary boxes.
I have no coax wiring to any room except the main room, and it originates at the OTA antenna on my roof and the Dish dish on the side of my house.

Tom

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post #2335 of 3355 Old 08-27-2017, 05:56 PM
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Does anyone know if the Roamio OTA will be able to get the fairly new HuLu Live TV app ?? I don't see it listed on the Hulu site as supported equipment, but its fairly new. Looks like it would work nicely for me.
Thanks,
Tom

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post #2336 of 3355 Old 08-27-2017, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post
Does anyone know if the Roamio OTA will be able to get the fairly new HuLu Live TV app ?? I don't see it listed on the Hulu site as supported equipment, but its fairly new. Looks like it would work nicely for me.
Thanks,
Tom
Unlikely, but if so, the app would have to come from Hulu themselves. So, contacting them (Hulu) and asking for it might get you some action. Let us know what they say.
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post #2337 of 3355 Old 08-28-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post
I'm also getting a Mini. I see from the manual that it does not have wi-fi connection, only a hardwire network connection. What type of wireless adapter/bridge can I get to go from my modem then to the mini via network cable. Please excuse my ignorance. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that can't run a cable to a far room, so I'm sure there is such a thing. I'm just not sure what its called.

Thanks,
Tom
I use a Media Bridge. It is designed for this purpose. I bought this one, I found that the 5GH band did not work, but the 2.4 is flawless. I got my money back and kept the device, after I informed the merchant that it doesn't work as designed. (5GH broken)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRENDnet-N90...72.m2748.l2649

I have COAX, but didn't want to spend $80 on MOCA adapters. Good luck.
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post #2338 of 3355 Old 08-28-2017, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by darkstarchuck View Post
I have COAX, but didn't want to spend $80 on MOCA adapters. Good luck.
Used MOCA adapters can be found for around $30. You only need one if your main Tivo OTA is already connected by other means.
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post #2339 of 3355 Old 08-29-2017, 02:10 AM
 
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You can also use DirecTV's DeCA system which is way cheaper than even used MoCA adapters. They're only $8-10 each last time I checked. You just have to make sure not to have any cable or antenna signals on the coax at the same time since they share frequencies.
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post #2340 of 3355 Old 08-29-2017, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
You can also use DirecTV's DeCA system which is way cheaper than even used MoCA adapters. They're only $8-10 each last time I checked. You just have to make sure not to have any cable or antenna signals on the coax at the same time since they share frequencies.
That's what I'm using, though I actually have DIRECTV with WH networking between the receivers and leveraging its available MoCA bandwidth for a TIVO OTA and Mini client bridged into the satellite coax plant by DECA adapters.

Unapproved by DIRECTV of course, but so what. .... Also have the backhaul from a WAP, used to expand the home WiFi coverage, to the main router running through the satellite MoCA network as well.

Everything works fine ...

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