New Magnavox HD DVRs 4th Qtr 2016: MDR877H, TB560HP, TB560HS - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 180 Old 03-19-2018, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jimlawrence View Post
I only see the post about 6 being left but I guess it doesn't matter now.
I only see the MDR865H being offered new for $279. Is this my only option today other than looking for others (new, used, refurbs and different models) on eBay? When I read the first post in the thread it talked about:

These new Mags will be:
MDR877H/F7, with 2 HD tuners, 1TB HDD and DVD burner. An upgrade to the currently selling dual-tuner HD DVR MDR867H which has two digital-only OTA/cable tuners.
TB560HP/F7, with 2 HD tuners and 1TB HDD.
TB560HS/F7, with 6 HD tuners and 2TB HDD.

I think that post dates back to January 2016. I hope I don't stir up any hornets nest with this uninformed post. Let me know if I need to edit it please. But did the the TB560s ever come out? I can live with a new MDR865 for that price but can't remember whether that model allows me to add extra hard drives or swap out just one. Does it have a DVD burner? Also I don't know if there's any chance of something new being released from Funai in the next year or two as I could wait and was holding out all this time for the self titling (I think that was the promised feature in the next models that wasn't in the current crop). I have a 533 with a ton of use on it and a Tablo but am not crazy about it and having to rip everything to other hard drives as the standard one always fills up. Any other decent solutions out there or anything worth waiting on?
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post #152 of 180 Old 03-19-2018, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jimlawrence View Post
I only see the MDR865H being offered new for $279. Is this my only option today other than looking for others (new, used, refurbs and different models) on eBay? When I read the first post in the thread it talked about:

These new Mags will be:
MDR877H/F7, with 2 HD tuners, 1TB HDD and DVD burner. An upgrade to the currently selling dual-tuner HD DVR MDR867H which has two digital-only OTA/cable tuners.
TB560HP/F7, with 2 HD tuners and 1TB HDD.
TB560HS/F7, with 6 HD tuners and 2TB HDD.

I think that post dates back to January 2016. I hope I don't stir up any hornets nest with this uninformed post. Let me know if I need to edit it please. But did the the TB560s ever come out? I can live with a new MDR865 for that price but can't remember whether that model allows me to add extra hard drives or swap out just one. Does it have a DVD burner? Also I don't know if there's any chance of something new being released from Funai in the next year or two as I could wait and was holding out all this time for the self titling (I think that was the promised feature in the next models that wasn't in the current crop). I have a 533 with a ton of use on it and a Tablo but am not crazy about it and having to rip everything to other hard drives as the standard one always fills up. Any other decent solutions out there or anything worth waiting on?
No, the units that were announced in Jan. 2016 were never released. I was looking forward to the 877. The 865 has a DVD burner, but it only has 1 tuner, so you can't record two shows at once or watch a pre-recorded show while recording.
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post #153 of 180 Old 03-19-2018, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jimlawrence View Post
I only see the MDR865H being offered new for $279. Is this my only option today other than looking for others (new, used, refurbs and different models) on eBay? When I read the first post in the thread it talked about:

These new Mags will be:
MDR877H/F7, with 2 HD tuners, 1TB HDD and DVD burner. An upgrade to the currently selling dual-tuner HD DVR MDR867H which has two digital-only OTA/cable tuners.
TB560HP/F7, with 2 HD tuners and 1TB HDD.
TB560HS/F7, with 6 HD tuners and 2TB HDD.

I think that post dates back to January 2016. I hope I don't stir up any hornets nest with this uninformed post. Let me know if I need to edit it please. But did the the TB560s ever come out? I can live with a new MDR865 for that price but can't remember whether that model allows me to add extra hard drives or swap out just one. Does it have a DVD burner? Also I don't know if there's any chance of something new being released from Funai in the next year or two as I could wait and was holding out all this time for the self titling (I think that was the promised feature in the next models that wasn't in the current crop). I have a 533 with a ton of use on it and a Tablo but am not crazy about it and having to rip everything to other hard drives as the standard one always fills up. Any other decent solutions out there or anything worth waiting on?
You should also check the original Magnavox section for the 865, 867, 868:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdt...usb-3-0-a.html

Pricing and availability has been discussed for some time there. I purchased an 865 a few month backs from Walmart new around $279. but those refurbished ones that Mickboy posted about were a great deal. The other models seem to be unavailable for the most part or very expensive from a few sellers who may or may not be reputable.
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post #154 of 180 Old 06-10-2018, 08:40 PM
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Question

I've been meaning to say this for a while, but never got a chance to before. Also, some people may laugh at me, but I'm wondering if the new multi-tuner DVRs stopped being produced because of the new streaming services.

And I'm not just talking about Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu proper, but I'm talking about the new premium streaming services:

Quote:
Streaming TV services are becoming valid cable replacements for many people, but there are a lot of choices out there at this point. We’ve looked at the five biggest—now it’s time to compare them.
To be clear, what we’re looking at here is not regular streaming services, like Netflix and Amazon Instant Video. Rather, we’re talking about services that let you stream live TV, and offer many of the same channels you’d get with a cable subscription.


The Contenders


There are really five major competitors in the streaming TV space:There are other choices out there, but these have proven to be the biggest, most popular, and best choices for most people. But how do they compare to each other? Which one is right for you? These are the questions we look to answer today.
https://www.howtogeek.com/352737/whi...right-for-you/

And I don't know, but perhaps these new streaming services had something to do with the mysterious disappearance of the multi-tuner DVRs.
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post #155 of 180 Old 06-11-2018, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles Newman View Post
I've been meaning to say this for a while, but never got a chance to before. Also, some people may laugh at me, but I'm wondering if the new multi-tuner DVRs stopped being produced because of the new streaming services.

And I'm not just talking about Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu proper, but I'm talking about the new premium streaming services:



https://www.howtogeek.com/352737/whi...right-for-you/

And I don't know, but perhaps these new streaming services had something to do with the mysterious disappearance of the multi-tuner DVRs.
You may be right but there is a difference between a regular dvr and one like the Magnavox which also had a DVD recorder in it. There are still multi-tuner dvr's from Tivo, Tablo etc. available but those do not have a DVD recorder so the Magnavox models were the last of that configuration unless they plan on bringing out a new model which seems unlikely. I don't think there is a lot of DVD recording going on but I still use that feature for archiving since you never know when a hard drive can fail.
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post #156 of 180 Old 06-11-2018, 02:38 PM
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You may be right but there is a difference between a regular dvr and one like the Magnavox which also had a DVD recorder in it. There are still multi-tuner dvr's from Tivo, Tablo etc. available but those do not have a DVD recorder so the Magnavox models were the last of that configuration unless they plan on bringing out a new model which seems unlikely. I don't think there is a lot of DVD recording going on but I still use that feature for archiving since you never know when a hard drive can fail.
I just use mine for playing a DVD. It's convenient, because I don't have to hook up another device.
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post #157 of 180 Old 06-11-2018, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles Newman View Post
I'm wondering if the new multi-tuner DVRs stopped being produced because of the new streaming services.

And I'm not just talking about Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu proper, but I'm talking about the new premium streaming services:

https://www.howtogeek.com/352737/whi...right-for-you/
Maybe, but I kind of doubt it. One competing DVR, Channel Master's DVR+, actually incorporated Sling TV into its channel lineup. (It was channel 903 IIRC.)

Of course, you couldn't record streamed video with the DVR+; you could only record OTA. But clearly, there's no inherent conflict between an OTA DVR and streaming services.

But you might be onto something in a vaguer sense. Streaming does seem to have depressed the market for OTA DVRs in general. A lot of folks will just watch a show they missed online instead of setting a DVR to record it, since the former requires no advance planning. Sure, they may have to pay for a "subscription," and the quality typically isn't as good as OTA, but it's OK and not everyone cares about those things.
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post #158 of 180 Old 06-11-2018, 04:11 PM
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Maybe, but I kind of doubt it. One competing DVR, Channel Master's DVR+, actually incorporated Sling TV into its channel lineup. (It was channel 903 IIRC.)

Of course, you couldn't record streamed video with the DVR+; you could only record OTA. But clearly, there's no inherent conflict between an OTA DVR and streaming services.

But you might be onto something in a vaguer sense. Streaming does seem to have depressed the market for OTA DVRs in general. A lot of folks will just watch a show they missed online instead of setting a DVR to record it, since the former requires no advance planning. Sure, they may have to pay for a "subscription," and the quality typically isn't as good as OTA, but it's OK and not everyone cares about those things.
I just use streaming as a Plan B if I don't get a good signal or my show is pre-empted. I would much rather record. I'm a planner.
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post #159 of 180 Old 06-12-2018, 11:56 AM
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Me too. I have a problem making myself pay for something I could have for free
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post #160 of 180 Old 06-12-2018, 12:02 PM
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Me too. I have a problem making myself pay for something I could have for free
I only stream for free too, with my Chromecast stick. All I pay for is the internet and I would be paying for that anyway, even if I never used it to watch TV.
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post #161 of 180 Old 06-25-2018, 11:28 PM
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But you might be onto something in a vaguer sense. Streaming does seem to have depressed the market for OTA DVRs in general.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

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A lot of folks will just watch a show they missed online instead of setting a DVR to record it, since the former requires no advance planning. Sure, they may have to pay for a "subscription," and the quality typically isn't as good as OTA, but it's OK and not everyone cares about those things.
But many of the more expensive streaming services include DVR services or it costs a little bit more to add DVR service. But see the charts in this link below:

https://www.fomopop.com/guides/live-tv-streaming

Also, for the Hulu Live TV service($40 per month), it includes Hulu proper which already allows you to watch many of the shows that you have missed. Albeit for most shows, it's only for 5 weeks. However, they also have a DVR service, although, unfortunately you have to watch the commercials with the recordings... unless you pay an extra $15.00 per month:

https://www.cnet.com/products/hulu-w...ve-tv/preview/

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post #162 of 180 Old 06-28-2018, 07:00 PM
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Yes, most cloud DVR services include restrictions beyond simple limits on total storage and/or number of recordings. A time limit for your recordings is quite common. And of course, that subscription fee will eventually exceed the cost of a dedicated DVR, and there's generally no way to edit your cloud recordings (although some subscriptions will include commercial-free versions of shows; a common reason for editing), etc. But again, most folks won't care as long as these cloud services do the basics reasonably well.
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post #163 of 180 Old 06-28-2018, 07:39 PM
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For those of you still missing wajo, I found this answer from him to a question I posted on Amazon, shortly after buying my MDR 867 a year ago. I was wondering if it had been discontinued. At the time I didn't know anything about the 3 new models announced in January 2016.


"I "think" these are the last of the Std Def (SD) HDD recorders from Funai (a Japanese company) since they announced at CES 2016 that they had developed three new HD models that were supposed to be due in 4th Qtr 2016. They haven't appeared yet and I "suspect" that coming major changes to the OTA (ATSC) spec to 3.0 might have something to do with it... back to the drawing board, so to speak.. at least that's my hope for the future. My original hope for explaining the delay was the bankruptcy by Hanjin Shipping, which stranded billions of dollars of goods from Asia on their boats in ports that port authorities and longshore firms refused to unload unless they were paid in advance.

The switch to ATSC 3.0 will obsolete all our TV equipment used for OTA reception... ATSC 2.0 and 3.0 are not compatible, so tuners won't work, unless they also build some sort of "dual-use" equipment or clever conversion contraptions."
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post #164 of 180 Old 06-28-2018, 07:47 PM
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I doubt the threat of ATSC 3 had anything to do with the non-appearance of these models. Funai has simply pulled out of this market in the US.

- kelson h

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post #165 of 180 Old 07-02-2018, 02:27 PM
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I doubt the threat of ATSC 3 had anything to do with the non-appearance of these models. Funai has simply pulled out of this market in the US.
That is really too bad. I was looking forward to buying the 6 tuner model (top of the line model) for another toy to play with even though I have no need for it. (Have Tivo + HDHR's + several other DVR/tuner boxes)
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post #166 of 180 Old 07-02-2018, 02:42 PM
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When my 867 breaks, I WILL need another two tuner DVR with a DVD drive. And there will be none to be found.
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post #167 of 180 Old 07-05-2018, 07:34 PM
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I think the impact of ATSC 3.0 on the DVR market has been greatly exaggerated. Yes, we'll start seeing some ATSC 3.0 broadcasts within the next year or two, but ATSC 1.0 isn't going away anytime soon. Nevertheless, ATSC 1.0 viewers may lose a few subchannels and/or have to put up with lower picture quality, and in any case, ATSC 3.0 adds more FUD to a market already weakened by streaming.

About the only way to replace one of these Magnavox DVR/DVD-R's nowadays is to build one out of a PC.
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post #168 of 180 Old 07-06-2018, 03:25 PM
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I think the impact of ATSC 3.0 on the DVR market has been greatly exaggerated. Yes, we'll start seeing some ATSC 3.0 broadcasts within the next year or two, but ATSC 1.0 isn't going away anytime soon. Nevertheless, ATSC 1.0 viewers may lose a few subchannels and/or have to put up with lower picture quality, and in any case, ATSC 3.0 adds more FUD to a market already weakened by streaming.

About the only way to replace one of these Magnavox DVR/DVD-R's nowadays is to build one out of a PC.
Correct! ATSC 1.0 will be around for at least 5 years after the station turns on ATSC 3.0!

From FCC 17-158:
"The programming aired on the ATSC 1.0 simulcast channel must be “substantially
similar” to the programming aired on the 3.0 channel. This means that the
programming must be the same, except for programming features that are based on
the enhanced capabilities of ATSC 3.0, advertisements, and promotions for upcoming
programs. The substantially similar requirement will sunset in five years from its
effective date absent further action by the Commission to extend it."

Orrin - Engineer/Photographer
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post #169 of 180 Old 07-07-2018, 10:36 PM
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For some reason, people seem to want to get their shorts in a knot over ATSC 3.

I'll start to take notice when 4K HDTV's with ATSC-3 tuners appear in Costco and my local OTA stations start to issue "public service announcements" regarding imminent availability. Until then, it's just vapor-ware for people to blog about.

Yeah, I know -- "it's coming real soon, now".
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post #170 of 180 Old 07-08-2018, 11:00 PM
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Funai has simply pulled out of this market in the US.
I think that it was more than just a matter of simply pulling out of the U.S. market, especially if they were selling units and making a profit in the U.S. But I googled and found this article which seems to provide all the answers to this mystery:

The Case of the Disappearing DVD Recorder

Here's the introduction of the article:

Quote:
Have you shopped for a DVD Recorder recently and have found slim-pickings on store shelves? It is not your imagination. While DVD recorders are still available in other parts of the World and Blu-ray Disc recorders are available in Japan and are being introduced in several other markets, the U.S. is being left out of the video disc-based recording equation; on purpose.

However, contrary to what you might think, it is not all the fault of LG, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba and other Asian-based consumer electronics manufacturers. After all, they would love to sell as many DVD and Blu-ray Disc recorders as possible to anyone who wants to buy one.

The real reason that DVD recorders are scarce in the U.S., and Blu-ray Disc recorders are non-existent, can be squarely laid at the foot of the U.S. movie studios, cable/satellite providers, and TV broadcasters, which place restrictions on video recording that make the continued selling new DVD recorders, let alone providing access to standalone Blu-ray Disc recorders, in the U.S. consumer market an increasingly unprofitable venture.
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post #171 of 180 Old 07-09-2018, 04:46 AM
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I don't even use the DVD recorder on my unit. I record shows to the hard drive and delete them after I watch them. I use the DVD drive for playing pre-recorded DVDs and CDs. If they would just make a DVR (two tuners) with a DVD player, I would be happy to buy it after my 867 breaks.


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I think that it was more than just a matter of simply pulling out of the U.S. market, especially if they were selling units and making a profit in the U.S. But I googled and found this article which seems to provide all the answers to this mystery:

The Case of the Disappearing DVD Recorder

Here's the introduction of the article:
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post #172 of 180 Old 07-09-2018, 02:57 PM
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I don't even use the DVD recorder on my unit. I record shows to the hard drive and delete them after I watch them. I use the DVD drive for playing pre-recorded DVDs and CDs. If they would just make a DVR (two tuners) with a DVD player, I would be happy to buy it after my 867 breaks.
Same here. Also, I thought the exact same thing. But apparently, Funai decided to throw the baby out with the bath water rather than making a hard drive recorder with only a CD/DVD player(or none at all). But it's a shame because I am sure that there are a lot of people who just wanted to use the recorder to record shows and then erase them. However, like the article said in the last paragraph:

Quote:
So next time you go shopping for a DVD Recorder, don't be surprised at the slim-pickings. It is all part of the "plan".
Therefore, it looks like "the U.S. movie studios, cable/satellite providers, and TV broadcasters" won, and the consumer lost.

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post #173 of 180 Old 07-09-2018, 03:12 PM
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What blows my mind with that is for $40 you can buy an HD tuner box that records OTA shows, and then just copy the untouched broadcast anywhere you want.

That seems like they have LESS control than if they let Funai sell their equipment.
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post #174 of 180 Old 07-10-2018, 09:06 AM
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When my 867 breaks, I WILL need another two tuner DVR with a DVD drive. And there will be none to be found.
Yep. That makes at least two of us. I would guess a lot more.
I am way too lazy to review all the posts on this. Funai got out of the market. Was (were) the 867 (865, 868) the last one(s) produced? Did they not ever release the planned 877? And I think the others were two called 560?
Is this where we are at on this? If one wants/needs one of these it is going to be shopping Ebay?

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post #175 of 180 Old 07-10-2018, 09:34 AM
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Yes, the 865, 867 and 868 were the last produced. They announced the 877 and TB560s and then never announced that they had changed their minds. They do not answer anyone's questions about it on their Facebook page.
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post #176 of 180 Old 07-10-2018, 10:12 AM
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And sheez. There's an 865 on Ebay right now and the jerk is asking $699 for it!

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post #177 of 180 Old 07-10-2018, 10:46 AM
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Yep. That makes at least two of us. I would guess a lot more.
Just not enough to make a worth-while market. If there was funai would be there.

DVD Recorders became pretty useless for cable use about 8-10yr ago when cable co's started their own transition to digital (QAM) and subsequently encrypted the signal requiring either the rental of one of their boxes or a cable-card capable recorder (currently TiVo Bolt). The market for OTA recorders is there but the market is not large enough to support a lot of players. On the high end is TiVo-OTA; on the ultra-low end is a whole host of $40 1-tuner chinese boxes; somewhere in between are Tablo, the android-TV boxes, Plex, and a number of PC-based DVR apps. The problem with these proposed funai boxes is that they were OTA recorders (no cable-card support) and as such, their proposed prices vs. features made them uncompetitive with TiVo-OTA and the then current CM DVR+. There was no place for them in the market space and funai could see that, so they ditched them.

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post #178 of 180 Old 07-10-2018, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Just not enough to make a worth-while market. If there was funai would be there.

DVD Recorders became pretty useless for cable use about 8-10yr ago when cable co's started their own transition to digital (QAM) and subsequently encrypted the signal requiring either the rental of one of their boxes or a cable-card capable recorder (currently TiVo Bolt). The market for OTA recorders is there but the market is not large enough to support a lot of players. On the high end is TiVo-OTA; on the ultra-low end is a whole host of $40 1-tuner chinese boxes; somewhere in between are Tablo, the android-TV boxes, Plex, and a number of PC-based DVR apps. The problem with these proposed funai boxes is that they were OTA recorders (no cable-card support) and as such, their proposed prices vs. features made them uncompetitive with TiVo-OTA and the then current CM DVR+. There was no place for them in the market space and funai could see that, so they ditched them.
But not before making a big announcement about the new ones coming out. Cable encryption is exactly why I ended up with a digital antenna. I had expanded basic cable for years and I never complained about the price. I had the cable connected directly to my VCR and I record one channel while watching another and I could program multiple channels to record while I was away from home. I was perfectly content. Then I get a letter from Comcast that they are encrypting the expanded basic channels and I would have to get their cable box to view them. I explained to them that they were removing half the functionality of my VCR and they responded that I could pay them even more money for their DVR service. That's when I switched to limited basic. Five years later, they encrypted all the channels. By that time I had a TV with a digital tuner and a Toshiba VCR/DVD recorder with a digital tuner. So I got a digital antenna, not expecting it to actually work, but it did. That was the end of cable TV for me.
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post #179 of 180 Old 07-10-2018, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ckth1043 View Post
But not before making a big announcement about the new ones coming out. Cable encryption is exactly why I ended up with a digital antenna. I had expanded basic cable for years and I never complained about the price. I had the cable connected directly to my VCR and I record one channel while watching another and I could program multiple channels to record while I was away from home. I was perfectly content. Then I get a letter from Comcast that they are encrypting the expanded basic channels and I would have to get their cable box to view them. I explained to them that they were removing half the functionality of my VCR and they responded that I could pay them even more money for their DVR service. That's when I switched to limited basic. Five years later, they encrypted all the channels. By that time I had a TV with a digital tuner and a Toshiba VCR/DVD recorder with a digital tuner. So I got a digital antenna, not expecting it to actually work, but it did. That was the end of cable TV for me.
You make many good points and even if you have a cable or satellite DVR, there are many local sub channels that are not carried on those systems anyway so you still need an OTA recorder like the Magnavox models or similar if you want to record those.
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post #180 of 180 Old 07-10-2018, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles Newman View Post
I think that it was more than just a matter of simply pulling out of the U.S. market, especially if they were selling units and making a profit in the U.S. But I googled and found this article which seems to provide all the answers to this mystery:

The Case of the Disappearing DVD Recorder
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Originally Posted by ckth1043 View Post
I don't even use the DVD recorder on my unit. I record shows to the hard drive and delete them after I watch them. I use the DVD drive for playing pre-recorded DVDs and CDs. If they would just make a DVR (two tuners) with a DVD player, I would be happy to buy it after my 867 breaks.
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Originally Posted by Charles Newman View Post
Same here. Also, I thought the exact same thing. But apparently, Funai decided to throw the baby out with the bath water rather than making a hard drive recorder with only a CD/DVD player(or none at all). But it's a shame because I am sure that there are a lot of people who just wanted to use the recorder to record shows and then erase them.
That was a good article, but the DRM schemes employed by HBO et al. aren't terribly relevant to OTA broadcasting. HBO itself is only available via cable, satellite, or streaming where they can control everything via encryption. But with few exceptions (such as the now-defunct AirBox pay-TV service), OTA TV remains unencumbered by such nonsense. You can freely record anything you wish, and it's not encrypted so you can transfer and edit your recordings to your heart's content.

However, inability to record cable certainly limits the size of the market for DVDRs and DVRs, and the hoops manufacturers must jump through to become certified to use a CableCard (so that they can record cable, albeit with the restrictions mentioned in the article) make that option as scarce as hens' teeth.
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