Channel Master Stream+ (pre-release & speculation) - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 682 Old 11-28-2017, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by pilotart View Post
First I've heard of Technicolor other than on movie credits, any connection I wonder.
Thompson was a major electronics manufacturer who purchased Technicolor and adopted the Technicolor name. As Thompson, they invented the videodisc laser disc in the 1970s and purchased GE consumer electronics (including RCA) and was the inventor of one kind of flat tv (I forget which; not sure if it was a CRT with a flat front or a plasma / lcd kind of thing). I had a friend who worked for RCA at the time of the purchase and he was concerned about his job (he fixed VCRs and TVs for RCA in one of their ubiquitous repair shops in the 1980s or 1990s).
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post #32 of 682 Old 11-28-2017, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Alainl12 View Post
I found this on google sites: https://sites.google.com/view/droid-...master-cm-7600

Based on this specs, this is the CM-7600. Under broadcast, ATSC/IPTV. So at least, there is an atsc tuner. But no mention about the number of tuner, atsc version and if there is a DVR feature or not.
if you'll click on Skipper word you'll get exactly same TC page as posted before, duh !
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post #33 of 682 Old 11-29-2017, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
I tend to doubt that ATSC 3.0 will be around for a very long time. Based on the Lifewire article posted to the DVR+ thread it looks like they are already preparing for 8K television, and that might require another consumer equipment upgrade down the line. I think electronics manufacturers would welcome this because they benefit when we have to buy new equipment.
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If anyone thinks they can force me to watch their commercials, they've got another think coming.
More and more, I'm starting to think what will happen is sort of what happened with "HD Radio:" Most of the FM stations (and one or two AM stations) invested in it and are broadcasting in it, but only a few folks have HD Radio receivers. This ATSC 3.0 may work out the same way: videophiles who think they need a gazillion pixels on their displays will upgrade to 3.0 equipment, and put up with whatever DRM restrictions are imposed on them in order to get that "perfect" 10-foot-tall, wrap-around TV picture (hopefully you all understand I'm exaggerating for effect, but I'm not sure how much!); the rest of us will stick with good ol' unencumbered ATSC 1.0 at "only" 1080i resolution. Remember, there's no government mandate for anything regarding ATSC 3.0; new TVs and tuners don't need to support it; there's no mandated shutdown of ATSC 1.0; heck, there's not even going to be a coupon program like last time!

As it relates to the Stream+, that probably means it'll only have an ATSC 1.0 tuner, but at some point, we'll be able to add ATSC 3.0 tuners via Ethernet. Kind of like what many of us were hoping for with the DVR+.
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All those Law & Drug Ads really make me sick and I can certainly always find other ways to occupy my time.
If there's one thing that can be said for ATSC 3.0 besides supporting 4K resolution, it's that the ads will probably be better, at least for Internet-connected 3.0 tuners

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post #34 of 682 Old 11-29-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by fshagan View Post
Thompson was a major electronics manufacturer who purchased Technicolor and adopted the Technicolor name.
Kind of like Rovi and Tivo, I take it
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post #35 of 682 Old 11-29-2017, 09:26 PM
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If there's one thing that can be said for ATSC 3.0 besides supporting 4K resolution, it's that the ads will probably be better, at least for Internet-connected 3.0 tuners
Yeah, it will be like they almost know you better than you know yourself... It's Minority Report all over again, especially when the ATSC 3.0 Stream+ accesses the camera in your smart TV. By the way, you look like you could use a cold refreshing beer right about now...
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post #36 of 682 Old 11-30-2017, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
Yeah, it will be like they almost know you better than you know yourself... It's Minority Report all over again, especially when the ATSC 3.0 Stream+ accesses the camera in your smart TV. By the way, you look like you could use a cold refreshing beer right about now...
If I ever buy a smart tv that includes a camera, it'll get a piece of black electrical tape put over the camera before it's even turned on the first time in my house.

Problem solved.
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post #37 of 682 Old 11-30-2017, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
If I ever buy a smart tv that includes a camera, it'll get a piece of black electrical tape put over the camera before it's even turned on the first time in my house.
Don't forget the microphone used for voice activated operations. Those snoops back at the head end love pillow talk...
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post #38 of 682 Old 12-01-2017, 03:25 PM
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Something you would need to know before ever setting up your "Smart TV" is that once you enter your WiFi Password, it will NEVER FORGET IT (Samsung at least) even past the most complete factory resets.

The mike's built-into the Remote, but denial of TV's "agreement" seems to block it. It has a dedicated (for the optional) camera USB port that now operates the Bias lighting (LED strips) switch.

Learned this on first of two (see sig) TV's and it's now a monitor for 'office PC and hooked to third DVR+ for limited recording and much more limited viewing.

Plumed Ethernet cable into HT for newer one (and DVR+'s & Dolby5 hi-fi system etc.), but still haven't connected that TV (not much need w/DVR+ in use.

My router block for DVR+ updates has held for over two years now but that older TV gets around blocks by changing URL's and by the time you notice new firmware loaded, it's too late. The First action on a 'reset' will be an update (flash of firmware) and again, unlike DVR+ (or your PC) once updated, there's no way back (iOS sometimes allows one step back for a limited time period).

Best workaround for a 'connected "Smart TV" is Ethernet and if that's not available, set up a 'temporary Guest' account on your router with a unique password that you could change or turn-off.
Art
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post #39 of 682 Old 12-02-2017, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pilotart View Post
Something you would need to know before ever setting up your "Smart TV" is that once you enter your WiFi Password, it will NEVER FORGET IT (Samsung at least) even past the most complete factory resets.
Check your router settings - you may be able to set up an access list of the MAC addresses allowed to connect. Then you can block WiFi access by simply removing your TV's MAC address from the list - although your trick is a good idea too:
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Best workaround for a 'connected "Smart TV" is Ethernet and if that's not available, set up a 'temporary Guest' account on your router with a unique password that you could change or turn-off.
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The mike's built-into the Remote, but denial of TV's "agreement" seems to block it.
I wouldn't count on that. I'm sure denying the agreement blocks use of the mike for your purposes (e.g., voice commands, Skype calls) but not necessarily for their purposes, assuming "they" are hackers (whether or not affiliated with any business or government)!

But is it an RF remote or IR only? If it's IR only, just block the line-of-sight path from the remote to the TV when not in use.
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My router block for DVR+ updates has held for over two years now but that older TV gets around blocks by changing URL's and by the time you notice new firmware loaded, it's too late. The First action on a 'reset' will be an update (flash of firmware) and again, unlike DVR+ (or your PC) once updated, there's no way back (iOS sometimes allows one step back for a limited time period).
How may URLs can be listed in the firmware? There's gotta be a list of them somewhere on the Web (or at least the dark Web). Most likely it's just a few URLs (with dynamic IP addresses so you can't block by IP address).

Nevertheless, that sounds like very untrustworthy behavior on Samsung's part to me. Micro$oft doesn't go to such extremes! If you don't want M$ updates then fine (although don't go complaining to them if your PC gets hacked). I guess I've been right to avoid Samsung's "smart" TVs.
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post #40 of 682 Old 12-11-2017, 09:45 PM
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The Technicolor Skipper has been in use in Australia as the Foxtel Now "Puck" streaming device for about a month. Foxtel is a cable company down under that introduced it's own streaming service a while back named "Foxtel Now", but the service isn't supported on Roku or Apple TV.

In their incarnation of the Skipper it evidently streams, plays your home content via the USB port, has the Android apps but has not gotten the rights to include Netflix or Prime. I think much of the configuration and software issues are probably unique to Foxtel's implementation ... remember, this would be like Sling TV making their own little streaming device instead of being available through them all. It has a single tuner for OTA and no way to record OTA programs. I don't think we know yet if the Stream+ will perhaps break this single-tuner Roku-Like-Device + OTA model that Foxtel has adopted.

Here are some of the articles:

https://ausdroid.net/2017/06/06/foxt...ce-later-year/
https://www.finder.com.au/foxtel-now-box-review
http://www.news.com.au/technology/ho...3b5d63cfe5a3c5
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/f...ve-bug-2017-11
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/gad...08-gzh3kp.html

EDIT: Here's a forum like AVS that has 56 pages of posts about the "Puck": http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum....cfm?t=2558292

The most surprising thing to me is the price, $99 AUS, or about $75 USD. I suspect that's a subsidized price to encourage people to sign up for their streaming service.
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Last edited by fshagan; 12-11-2017 at 09:49 PM.
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post #41 of 682 Old 12-12-2017, 12:46 PM
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Well, it's all speculation at this point, so....

The Stream+ will probably be more expensive because it carries the CM brand name, but I don't expect it to cost too much more. "Generic" Android TV boxes generally sell for under $100, so maybe the Stream+ will be $129?

I'd guess the hardware is unlikely to change much, so the Stream+ will probably have only one tuner built-in too. Sure, you can record with one tuner, but you'll need to add an HDHR or similar device for multi-tuner DVR capability, which makes me wonder if CM will offer their own, maybe even an ATSC 3.0 tuner? Can't see them letting SiliconDust grab all that business.

Hopefully the big advantage over the DVR+ will be open architecture, so you can run apps not supplied by CM. Kodi (FKA XBMC) would be an obvious choice for DVR functionality since it's free and available for Android already. If PSIP isn't enough, you'll have to pay for a guide with Kodi, but Schedules Direct is cheap.

OTOH the DVR button on the remote implies it will come with its own DVR app, possibly with the same free guide as the DVR+ (currently RoviTiVoAarrghh!). Maybe that's the real reason for 135R on the latter.
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post #42 of 682 Old 12-12-2017, 03:49 PM
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A one tuner dvr is nearly worthless, as you can't record one channel, and watch another. Two tuners is the bare minimum, four is close enough to perfect, so that should really be the minimum any company should build into a device of this sort nowadays.
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post #43 of 682 Old 12-12-2017, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
OTOH the DVR button on the remote implies it will come with its own DVR app, possibly with the same free guide as the DVR+ (currently RoviTiVoAarrghh!). Maybe that's the real reason for 135R on the latter.
I keep hoping for two tuners and DVR functionality, plus the open architecture. They could get the list price up to $200 easily with those features.

I also think they will probably release the product in January, rather than just tease it, because the work is being done by Technicolor.
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post #44 of 682 Old 12-13-2017, 05:31 AM
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I keep hoping for two tuners and DVR functionality, plus the open architecture. They could get the list price up to $200 easily with those features.



I also think they will probably release the product in January, rather than just tease it, because the work is being done by Technicolor.


This is my hope as well, also hope you’re correct that we’ll see a January release.


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post #45 of 682 Old 12-13-2017, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post
A one tuner dvr is nearly worthless, as you can't record one channel, and watch another.
Well, that's assuming your TV doesn't have another tuner! Unfortunately that seems to have become a trend recently

But even with one tuner, while recording one channel, you could still:

  • Watch another recording
  • Stream something
  • Watch another subchannel of the channel you're recording

With channel-sharing expected to increase due to spectrum repacking and ATSC 3.0, that last option will become more flexible than it is now.

Edit: Above is largely moot now that we know the Stream+ has two tuners. But I'm leaving it on the site for the theoretical discussion.

Last edited by JHBrandt; 12-19-2017 at 07:56 AM.
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post #46 of 682 Old 12-18-2017, 11:32 PM
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Stream+ Available to order on Channel Master Site

The Channel Master site has been redone and the Stream+ is available to order. Per CNET - the $99 price is a 'pre-order' price as the normal price is expected to be $150. Looks to be an Android box that uses the Android Live Channels app for the recording. 4K-capable and Chromecast built-in. 2 tuners ... but using micro SD card for storage. (Just what is that usb port for, then?) CNET got their hands on it for a demo (article is not a full review yet) and were overall pleased -- claiming it surpassed the DVR+ on many levels.

Android TV, of course, gives a lot of flexibility - and using Live Channels and the Play Store for your apps (although Netflix hasn't certified the Stream+ yet) means development for the box is somebody else's problem at an office in Mountain View, CA.

If my HW150-PVR fails on my wife's daily chat show recordings and forgets the rest of the schedules on that channel just one more time -- I may have to go in on a pre-order. :-)

I don't mind the Live Channels app - it's certainly serviceable. Although I've grown more partial to the HDHomeRun DVR sliceview guide as time goes on. Other details are sketchy right now. I'm assuming that like other Live Channels boxes, recordings are available only on the box that recorded them. (Score one for the lowly Mediasonic - where it is easy to take the wife's recordings and toss them into Plex for streaming ... of course, when the Homeworx decides to actually record them ...)

Since Live Channels was a collaboration between Google and Silicon Dust, it does make me wonder what hand 'Dust played in this regarding the tuners in the Stream+ box?

Being Android TV, Google Home support and voice control available.

New Stream+ video released on
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post #47 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 12:01 AM
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Ordered. "Ships Next Business Day." 30-day money back guarantee. Free shipping. $99 on my PayPal account.

I'm taking the chance that this will impress me. Hopefully enough to dump the DVR+ units.

Two concerns:

1. Size of memory chip allowed - will it be large enough for my needs? Or does the unexplained USB port also allow the use of an external HD for mass storage? "USB 3.0 for future applications"

2. Whether or not you can use two in the same room (without having to block/shield one or another) so you can use two units for 4 tuner needs.

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post #48 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 12:07 AM
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and the tuners are ? ATSC 3.0 ?
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post #49 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 12:11 AM
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and the tuners are ? ATSC 3.0 ?
Two internal ATSC 1.0 tuners

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post #50 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 12:15 AM
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I will be surprised if that isn't a typo (the shipping) - as I don't think it will really ship until after the new year.

Even if it does allow for a hard drive (which is unknown at this time) - like other Android TV devices, does it have to be mounted as internal? The Shield made a special allowance due to the large Plex userbase to allow the special 'Nvidia_Shield' folder on a hard drive to be treated like internal storage - but still allow read/write access. No other Android TV box does this - and I doubt the Stream+ will either.

My suspicion is the market they are now moving toward is less concerned with 4 tuner setups. A device with 'Stream' in the name is assuming that the bulk of watching is going to be through OTT services. People who have moved to streaming probably have minimal use for a lot of tuners - with one usually sufficient and 2 very rarely needed.

The DVR+ and the Stream+ are machines that are, I believe, intended for 2 very different audiences. The former is a shrinking ... and aging ... user base, while the latter is showing growth. I don't believe one can even compare the two machines given their clearly different user focus. Somebody who is going to need multiple tuners and lots of storage is not going to be happy with the Stream+ box. Somebody who gets most of their network programming from Hulu and CBS Access will be.

Edit: I was correct about the shipping. The webpage now says:

Special introductory price. Pre-order now. Product will ship before the end of January.

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post #51 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 03:14 AM
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Two internal ATSC 1.0 tuners

.
"internal" ... that's sad news - if you can't change them, the device soon to be totally OTA useless
may be it will be possible replace by open the case ?
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post #52 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 05:46 AM
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"internal" ... that's sad news - if you can't change them, the device soon to be totally OTA useless
may be it will be possible replace by open the case ?
Soon? We have at least five years. Who can't afford $20 per year?

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post #53 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 06:05 AM
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From the specs:

*hdmi port (2.0 with HDCP 1.4).

Most streaming service require HDCP 2.2 for 4k streaming. How good is a streaming box 4k without HDCP 2.2?
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post #54 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 06:31 AM
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Just ordered 2 units. I'm hoping that the tuner is less sensitive than the DVR+ to multipath. My internal HDTV tuners never have a problem locking in on signals, whereas the DVR+ often suffers image breakup.

Time to list my DVR+ units.

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post #55 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 06:53 AM
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Of additional interest (as I think about it more) is how other video sources integrate with Live Channels on the Stream. It could go a bit towards the 'online/OTA' integration that the CMTV channels hoped they could be. Can the Weather Network, CumulusTV, PlutoTV, etc be added to Live Channels as they can in other Live Channels setups?

I also wonder if a minimum SD card class recommendation shouldn't be on the site? Minimum of class 10, minimum of UHS-I, etc?
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post #56 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
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I also wonder if a minimum SD card class recommendation shouldn't be on the site? Minimum of class 10, minimum of UHS-I, etc?
It does list this in the specifications: MicroSD Port (Class 4, 6, 8, 10 and UHS I)

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post #57 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alainl12 View Post
From the specs:

*hdmi port (2.0 with HDCP 1.4).

Most streaming service require HDCP 2.2 for 4k streaming. How good is a streaming box 4k without HDCP 2.2?
duh !:facepalm:

only unprotected [no DRM ?] UHD source will be outputted
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post #58 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 07:45 AM
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Good info - thanks!
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The Channel Master site has been redone and the Stream+ is available to order. Per CNET - the $99 price is a 'pre-order' price as the normal price is expected to be $150.
About what I figured - a bit more but not that much more.
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2 tuners ... but using micro SD card for storage.
That could be good, or bad, depending on how you intend to use it. Micro SD cards are a LOT smaller than even a 2.5" HDD - maybe even too small (and easy to lose), but it would let you keep a huge library of recordings in a small box in a drawer somewhere. (I wonder if anyone makes micro SD storage boxes?) But their cost/byte is still way more than HDDs. I just bought a 3TB HDD for $75 - I realize that was a special price, but that would still only get me a 256GB or so micro SD card.
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Android TV, of course, gives a lot of flexibility - and using Live Channels and the Play Store for your apps (although Netflix hasn't certified the Stream+ yet) means development for the box is somebody else's problem at an office in Mountain View, CA.
Yes, that was the DVR+'s big weakness: we were always dependent on CM and E* to decide what apps we'd get!
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I'm assuming that like other Live Channels boxes, recordings are available only on the box that recorded them.
WHAT? DRM on ATSC 1.0 OTA recordings?? WHY? WTF?

That's definitely a big step backward.
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Originally Posted by eherberg View Post
Being Android TV, Google Home support and voice control available.
I have mixed feelings about that....
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post #59 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 08:12 AM
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Well, it certainly looks tempting. I'll wait until this is resolved and working:

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But the biggest caveat (for now) is on the app front: Android TV means a wealth of great apps are available, but Netflix isn't yet certified for the Stream+, and Amazon Prime Video isn't universally available. (Channel Master reps said the company is in talks with both providers.)
Saving $50 to $60 isn't worth just replacing the current function of my TV with the DVR+ and Roku. When they get Netflix certified then I'll get it and never have to change inputs on my TV again. Except upstairs, where the DVR+ and Roku will go.

This is exactly what I've been waiting for to recommend to the less technical in my family. One box that combines antenna and streaming services, Bluetooth for local content steamed from phone or tablet. If CM gets Netflix and Amazon I think this blows everything else out of the water.
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post #60 of 682 Old 12-19-2017, 08:17 AM
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Recording availability with Live Channels is more of an Android thing. It stores them on 'internal' memory(which external storage gets formatted as). The Shield was the same way - but when Plex came out with their DVR, the user-base wanted read/write. Because of the size of the user-base - and the heavy use of Plex (both server and client) on the Shield, the capability to have read/write capability was added ... as long as files were only in a folder named 'Nvidia_Shield'.

It will be interesting to see how guide data is handled. Although Live Channels has (at least earlier in the year) 12 day guide info - only 2 days were visible in the grid. For the audience that this is likely intended for -- that may not be a big thing given their comfort with using mobile apps for search and/or guide.

Of further interest is the playing of recordings. Although you can record 2 programs while watching another (or watch live while recording) ... as of at least a few months ago, you could not start watching a recording while in progress. The recording couldn't be played while the stream was still being written. Interestingly - you can pause live TV (which implies the ability to read/write the same stream). Again -- given the market this is aimed for with fewer OTA recording needs, this may not be a big issue to that market.
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