LG LST-3410A Review and Discussion - Page 198 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5911 of 7319 Old 05-03-2009, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

They are two kinds of TVGOS packets...if you check through the diagnostic screens on the 3410a, you'll find one that shows the numbers of A and B packets received...

On the other hand, if I've got this straight in my memory, my Sony uses B and C packets!

So who was it above who alerted you to the presence of the legacy stream in Chicago (assuming, I've got that straight, too!)

Cheers - Tony (still looking for that data here in the SF area...)

By the way, you might be vaguely interested in an exchange I had in our SF area OTA thread about the legacy stream, data rates, etc; our interchange starts here: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post16376471

I have a DHD and an LST3410a. I checked and the Sony indicates zero A packets, millions of B packets, and hundred's of thousands of C packets. This is since an early March reset. I can also say that my LG has no listings but my Sony has full listings today. I'm not smart enough to make too much sense of this, but I never trust downloads after 5pm on any Friday and my LG needs an unplug daily since losing the listings. This week I lost listings on the Sony from next Friday at 8pm to the end of Saturday. They are back this Sunday morning. This was normal during all of April, but was ok last weekend. Packets are always being counted at the rate of over 200 per minute and both units have a perfect clock. I wonder if the person at Macrovision knows how many people are affected by what they do?
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post #5912 of 7319 Old 05-03-2009, 05:58 AM
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Chicagoland.
Sunday AM. Just like off the recently tested CBS off cable, I had to wait 2 days for 3410a TVG off DTVPal to become stable enough for the TVG display to allow me to disable channels and re-compose the channel list. (Would lock up if I tried to disable many channels prior to waiting long enough -- This unit DID NOT do this on CH 7-0 TVG, but does do this on CBS 2-0 and DTVPal, both of which are sending more channel Icons-by the way). I'm Still not receiving channel programming data, but I disabled many channels... re-directed some to different channel numbers, and re-ordered the list...
Did another TVG Diagnostic, and it says VBI is off Chanel 3, which equates to where it is on my cable.

If you remember my commenting months ago about OTA channel list showing OTA channel numbers instead of cable numbers? (Recent CBS off cable TVG showed Cable channels for OTA channels) Well, Off the DTVPal, OTA channels now have OTA Channel numbers, along with more OTA channels from surrounding cities (Milwaukee I believe).

Turned it back off again, and it is getting data.
Checked agan at 4:15PM... Still no data "No Listings"... Turned off, and the TVG light went on...

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post #5913 of 7319 Old 05-04-2009, 04:48 AM
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Chicagoland CBS on 2-1 OTA
Monday 5/4/09 6AM
DTVPal in TVG mode/SA code "121" to 3410a
3410a locked to 3-0 (DTVPal TVG Channel)
Channel list received by 3410a 5/2/09 AM

Still no channel data "No Listings"

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post #5914 of 7319 Old 05-04-2009, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

Chicagoland CBS on 2-1 OTA
Monday 5/4/09 6AM
DTVPal in TVG mode/SA code "121" to 3410a
3410a locked to 3-0 (DTVPal TVG Channel)
Channel list received by 3410a 5/2/09 AM

Still no channel data "No Listings"

Well, Jan - I have my fingers crossed for you...

So how many people have reported success with the DTVPal and the 3410a? One!? Or is it two?

I'm not even trying again until somebody reports seeing the legacy stream in this area; I've already set up my Pal in parallel with the antenna feed going to my 3410a...

Yesterday, when I found I HAD gotten a download overnight on both my 3410a and my Sony 250 (both from PBS 9), I did the G* test on the 3410a, and it indicated both A and B packets on both PBS 9 and CBS 5...

I wish my unit had stayed with 5, because - during the three periods since Thanksgiving when it had 5 as a host channel - I got TVGOS downloads nightly without any intervention...whereas SINCE LAST MAY, to get downloads with PBS 9 as host channel, I had to do a reboot of the 3410a EVERY NIGHT before I went to sleep if I wanted a download by the next day...a pain in the butt for an entire YEAR except for the total of 2 months or so I have had CBS 5 as a host channel...

(Tonight I'm letting the reboot slide to see whether they've fixed whatever bug the PBS 9 broadcasts had that necessitated my rebooting nightly...)

So I've changed my signature below to reflect the current change of host for my LG...)

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #5915 of 7319 Old 05-04-2009, 04:02 PM
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So the Sony's get digital TVGOS?
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post #5916 of 7319 Old 05-04-2009, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POWERFUL View Post

So the Sony's get digital TVGOS?

The Sony's CAN get digital, and mine HAS in the past, though the info is that - with the earlier Sony firmware - they couldn't survive in a purely digital-TVGOS environment, i.e., with any full TVGOS reset, wouldn't be able to get all the required TVGOS info.

So Sony recently provided upgraded firmware that is SUPPOSED to fix this problem, i.e., that included a base TVGOS firmware that meets the stated TVGOS requirement for being able to bootstrap itself back up to the current TVGOS firmware patch that is needed for making it with digital TVGOS only....

Whether it will work that way remains to be seen, since the unit still evidently PREFERS analog TVGOS, so I - for one -won't be able to tell until the analog TVGOS in my area evvaporates on June 12..

But, yes, we've known for a year or so that the Sony CAN receive digital TVGOS, but have inconclusive evidence with respect to a purely digital environment

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #5917 of 7319 Old 05-04-2009, 05:04 PM
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5/04/09 PM. Chicagoland.
I'm getting data into a 3410a from a DTVPal, and a programmed recording from TVG just started!

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post #5918 of 7319 Old 05-04-2009, 06:13 PM
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That's great news Jan! I'm still getting new data, but no line-up or anything to edit yet. It's maddening.
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post #5919 of 7319 Old 05-04-2009, 06:19 PM
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Try re-locking to the TVG signal.... That did it for me....

Here's my picture of the G* test:


Also, after you get Cable Channel list, and make a selection, Go easy on Channel editing.... TVG can lock up easier in this mode than before...
Do your editing of list a little bit at a time.... Instead of doing it all at once.... Don't know why, but it can lockup early on (until it gets finished).
LL

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post #5920 of 7319 Old 05-04-2009, 10:22 PM
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Well I'm still getting the TVGOS analog here in the NYC market, although it requires the 2 sec unplug occasionally. What do I need to get the digital TVGOS?
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post #5921 of 7319 Old 05-04-2009, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

Here's my picture of the G* test:

Well, I'm very happy to see that picture...have you sent it to Nick?

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #5922 of 7319 Old 05-04-2009, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POWERFUL View Post

Well I'm still getting the TVGOS analog here in the NYC market, although it requires the 2 sec unplug occasionally. What do I need to get the digital TVGOS?

assuming you have a 3410a, you'll need a DTVPal...

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #5923 of 7319 Old 05-05-2009, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

Well, I'm very happy to see that picture...have you sent it to Nick?


Yes I did...

Late last night (after doing two recordings on DTVPal based system) I am trying a different approach... Took a second system (Presently locked to 7-0 ABC) and RF channel edited Cable Channel 3 to the list, and then set it to 3-0 and then forced it to 3-0 for VBI.

I'll watch this system to see if it continues to get channel data.... This approach would definately be easier than a First Birthday...

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post #5924 of 7319 Old 05-05-2009, 03:30 PM
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I posted yesterday that OTA channels were sent from DTVPal, and they were.... But today -- one day later, it loaded Cable channel numbers over the OTA numbers it downloaded yesterday... Edited them back.... to OTA

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post #5925 of 7319 Old 05-05-2009, 04:20 PM
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Nick? As in Ferrelli, CSR at tvgos support? I had an open case with him over a year ago.
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post #5926 of 7319 Old 05-05-2009, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rfburns View Post

Nick? As in Ferrelli, CSR at tvgos support? I had an open case with him over a year ago.

yes, I had him around August, and I tried to reopen my inquiry from then with a more current and urgent question about 10 days ago about specifically how the DTVPal was supposed to work with the 3410a - but no response!

Related to that (indirectly, via Jan's recent interaction with him), I decided to do a side-by side comparison of packet counts from my 2 units, the LG and Sony, from the 2 local analog stations that are currently broadcasting TVGOS data in the SF Bay area...I did the testing over a roughly 15 minute period beginning about an hour ago, during the last third of the last 180 minute download, around 4:14 PM.

It's a little hard to keep track, switching between units AND switching stations, but the short answer seems to be that - the packet B rates on BOTH units were about 3 per second on BOTH analog channels (PBS 9 and CBS 5)...

I looked at both the G*tests on both units AND at the slicing screens in their diagnostic menus, and the results were consistent...I wasn't sure of this at first using the G* tests, because the Sony's G*test shows only a single vbi count rate, and it was about FOUR per second. But when I looked at the slicing screen, I saw that the Sony had a 3/s rate for B packets and about 1/s on C packets, which totals 4/s...so my guess is that the vbi count given on the Sony G*test is for TOTAL packets (i.e., B+C). When I looked at the Sony slicing screen, the rate for B seemed pretty close to 3/s.

Instead of C packets, the LG uses A packets, but when I was making these comparisons, the A count rate was probably a tenth or less of the B count rate, and in any case it was stated separately in both the G* test and the slicing screen of the LG.

And, as I said, the results for B packets (and A and C) seemed indistinguishable between channels 5 and 9, which is what is to be expected since they have essentially the same broadcast schedule, and presumably are sending the same TVGOS data, though of course the two units are picking out different packet types.

(Elsewhere, I speculated a couple of days ago about what this might mean in terms of the content of this different packets types, and also about the possible structure of the TVGOS broadcasts, in terms of things like channel, zip code, TVGOS version, etc...)

Anyway, thought it was interesting to check and compare what was being broadcast by the two stations and what was being picked out by these two units...

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #5927 of 7319 Old 05-06-2009, 07:21 AM
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I just received an email indicating that DTVPal is supposed to work with 3410a via G-Link connection, and because I'm using RF output of DTVPal (which isn't supposed to work, I've been told):

"At this time I can not continue to help you with this unsupported set up. If you ever choose to set this unit up correctly and still have difficultly we will be able to assist you with it."

I'm guessing that -- Like the Bumblebee (with regards to wing size and flight) --- The LG3410a doesn't know it's "not supposed to work" with RF out of DTVPal..... and therefore it works anyway....


I'd like to hear more about specifics of G-Link operation with 3410a and DTVPal.
Somehow I can't understand why subsitiuting one RF channel for another would not be a "Supported" setup....

First unit (First Birthday) still working fine with DTVPal RF, Second unit (ReLock) not receiveing listings yet.
Third unit (Another ReLock). converted over very early this AM.

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post #5928 of 7319 Old 05-06-2009, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

I'd like to hear more about specifics of G-Link operation with 3410a and DTVPal.
Somehow I can't understand why subsitiuting one RF channel for another would not be a "Supported" setup....

First unit (First Birthday) still working fine with DTVPal RF, Second unit (ReLock) not receiveing listings yet.
Third unit (Another ReLock). converted over very early this AM.

Well, I can't speak for the LG, but the Sony, because it can receive both clear QAM and encrypted cable via a cable card, has no implementation of the G-Link (other than some hokey way to control a VCR.) If the LG doesn't have a cable card, then perhaps it will work because it would need some way to change channels on a cable box, the same "feature" utilized by the DTVPal in TVGOS mode. Should be documented in the LG user's manual, I would think (i.e.: how to set it up for a specific manufacturers cable box.) I don't even think I could dredge up my Sony's G-Link cable - it probably got lost within days of realizing I had no use for it. Of course, it's kind of overkill to let the TVGOS unit search for a host this way, since you already know what the host channel is and can tune it with a programmable remote control and it will never need to change unless they decide to switch hosts on you.

The LG may not "work" with the RF connection if trying to use the G-Link because it wouldn't know what channel to tune internally first; but surely it will work with the RF connection if you tune the Pal by hand and leave it on, because that's how it works normally anyway.
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post #5929 of 7319 Old 05-06-2009, 04:12 PM
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So Jan J and Frank 70...I think I've gotten somewhat different advice from the two of you on how to set up my 3410a with a DTVPal for OTA only WHEN the legacy stream appears around here...namely, I interpret Frank 70's advicce to mean just leaving the 3410a as is (real zip code/OTA only), whereas Jan's advice is to set it up involving cable ("Cable Yes, Cablebox No")...any thoughts on this discrepancy?

Jan...I find it difficult to believe what they (Nick?) sent you - either the csrs there are a bunch of ignorant jerks* OR the managers are (or both)...

*whereas last year the CSRs seemed at least vaguely helpful

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #5930 of 7319 Old 05-06-2009, 06:36 PM
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Let me preface this with the information that Macrovision says this is an Un-Supported procedure.... But it seems to work here.
I have two 3410a units working... One exactly as posted below.... The 2nd and 3rd units were existing 3410a's, getting data locked to 7-0 ABC in Chicago, and switched/locked that to 3-0 DTVPal feed, and one of them worked right off the bat.... the 3rd one (Set up last night) has yet to get data yet, but is VBI Locked to 3-0 according to TVG Diagnostics...


Note Again that Macrovision says this is an Un-Supported setup...

(And if anyone EVER finds any document indicating what IS the "Supported Setup", would you please make a copy of that document and send it to me, as I don't ever remember ever finding any document regarding how we are "Supposed" to connect the DTVPal in TVG mode?)

I just checked the experimental 3410a/DTVPal... It is doing another test recording..
Here is how it's configured, step by step, in it's entirety:

DTVPal:
Gets OTA feed, Set for CH3 output, Zipcode is 00003 (Chicago DTVPal Zipcode). DTV Pal set into TVG mode, and then a Remote set for Scientific Atlanta codes then changes the channel to 121, for Chicagoland CBS 2-1. (Note that when DTVPal Boots into TVG Mode, it does NOT display TVG, until the SA Codes for 2-1 -- 121 are sent).
RF output From DTVPal is mixed back into my cable feed (using a TRU-SPEC SC3 Inserter--Which notches out CH3 from Cable feed, inserts CH3 from DTVPal which then hits an RF AMP and Feeds entire house). I'm still receiving Analog cable, that's why I mixed DTVPal CH3 into the cable feed.
At this point if I tune in channel 3-0 on any TV or 3410a fed by cable in the house, the downconverted CBS-HD 2-1 feed (With TVG in VBI) is seen..

Preliminary TVG testing: LG3410a:
RF from "Cable + TVG3" amp is connected to Cable input of 3410a.
(added 3-0 to cable channel list on 3410a if it wasn't there), went into 3410a TVGuide/Setup/Messages and entered: 971397135 and verified that I was receiving TVG data on Channel 3-0. It was..... and this part of the testing is done. See the picture of TVG a few posts back, that's what I saw.

Convert 3410a to DTVPal use: Brute Force method:
I gave it a First Birthday, followed by Power cycle, then complete setup: (EZ-Scan, Set Zipcode (MY Zipcode 60076), Cable Yes, Cablebox No, Set Time. Set to Channel 3-0 and then "Locked" to Channel 3-0 (TVG/Setup/Messages on 3-0, entered: 963214785). When TVG display went away..... Turned it off, and awaited TVG Channel List, and then data, which took a couple days.

Because I'm set for Cable yes, Cablebox no: I have NO G-Link connected to the 3410a. ONLY Connection between DTVPal and 3410a's is via RF Channel 3 in the cable feed.

What I've noticed:
There is a LONGER time to wait for Cable channel lists via CBS off cable list that went active last month, AND ALSO Cable channel lists via DTVPal, compared to the past few years, getting the data off cable feeds. It has taken 2 days, where before it took one day, with OTA TV channels being received on the next day after cable channel lists were received.
ALSO: I'm betting that the amount of data being sent is more than before, as I've found TVG in the 3410a having "Lockup issues" if you try and do too much TVG configuring too soon. The thing to note is: Don't Over-Do-It!! TVG is more apt to Lock up using CBS or DTVPal connection, compared to prior cable channel feeds I've seen for past few years.
DON'T OVER EDIT your TVG Menus early on! Slowely but surely disable the channels you want to turn off, making sure you don't end up with TVG locking up, or you'll lose all your changes.... I , there is less memory available early on (or, I'm seeing more channel Icons)...

At present, I've got 2 of 3 units I've converted working with DTVPal/TVG. One unit is still awaiting data and/or channel lists. One last unit remains on CH7 as a control reference...

One Last warning.... Macrovision says this is an Un-Supported Setup...

(remember to send me Macrovision's "Supported" instructions when you find them...)

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post #5931 of 7319 Old 05-07-2009, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

DTVPal:
Gets OTA feed, Set for CH3 output, Zipcode is 00003 (Chicago DTVPal Zipcode). DTV Pal set into TVG mode, and then a Remote set for Scientific Atlanta codes then changes the channel to 121, for Chicagoland CBS 2-1. (Note that when DTVPal Boots into TVG Mode, it does NOT display TVG, until the SA Codes for 2-1 -- 121 are sent).

Jan and others - as far as I can figure, the zipcode you enter into the DTVPal is totally irrelevant - I mean, what would it use it for? In normal mode, it's guide (unlike the DTVPal DVR) is strictly PSIP driven, and that doesn't require a zipcode. In TVGOS mode, it is deaf, dumb, and blind to the TVGOS data - it just converts the VBI from digital (SCTE-127) to analog (NTSC vertical blanking lines) without any interpretation of the data. I think the DTVPal CECB zipcode entry is possibly for software compatibility with the DTVPal DVR (the former being a subset of the latter.) In my mind, it really doesn't matter what zipcode you enter there. Note that in the DTVPal manual, they tell you to put the substitute zipcode into your TVGOS device, not your DTVPal. But don't do that either...

The 00003 zipcode is one that was meant to be entered into your TVGOS device if it is one of the (majority of) TVGOS devices that haven't got a clue about digital reception or digital channel numbers. If you enter that zipcode into your TVGOS device, it will build a grid that lists your digital channels with substitute cable channel numbers. These cable numbers are meant to allow the TVGOS device to tune the DTVPal via the IR link. In the case of the LG and the Sony DVRs, they already know how to tune digital channels, so the substitute zipcodes have no use here.
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post #5932 of 7319 Old 05-07-2009, 08:03 AM
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Frank: I agree with you on the DTVPal Zipcode issue. As Luck would have it, the unit I had hooked to the CH3 inserter was set for 00003.

As it turns out, Zipcode 00003 for DTVPal in Chicagoland, is what Macrovision wants us to use.... ???
But Macrovision also wants us to use the GLink connection between 3410a and DTVPal also, and I can't understand that at all. (When I told them the 3410a was ~100' of cable from the DTVPal, and I felt that 4x 3410a's fighting over one DTVPal would be counter-Productive......) They got 'irritated' with me, and told me my setup was "Un-Supported".

I replied that I've never seen ANYTHING about a "Supported" interconnect diagram or methodology that mentions LG3410a and DTVPal in the same document....

and with that ----- the Email door slammed shut..... !!!

The tone of the Email was such that I'm not sure if I'll ever hear from them ever again.....

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post #5933 of 7319 Old 05-07-2009, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

As it turns out, Zipcode 00003 for DTVPal in Chicagoland, is what Macrovision wants us to use.... ???
But Macrovision also wants us to use the GLink connection between 3410a and DTVPal also, and I can't understand that at all. (When I told them the 3410a was ~100' of cable from the DTVPal, and I felt that 4x 3410a's fighting over one DTVPal would be counter-Productive......) They got 'irritated' with me, and told me my setup was "Un-Supported".

Macrovision and Dish know absolutely nothing about a 3410a - they only know that the capability they've built into the DTVPal will make some 10 year old TV set that happens to have a TVGOS guide keep working when analog is gone. People with such a TV set, up until 12 June, bring up the guide, select the analog program they want to watch (now or future), and the TV tunes to that analog channel at that time. But if the owner of such a TV has cable, then he has a cable box and it's the G-Link cable that effects the tuning of a cable channel by sitting it's emitter in front of the cable box. Thus the G-Link cable and capability were provided to address a need. The G-Link cable wasn't necessary if the TV was receiving analog channels OTA, since it's tuner could select the OTA channel.

When analog channels OTA go away, and only digital OTA channels remain, not only is the (old) TV set unable to tune the digital channels, it is equally unable to tell a conventional CECB to tune to a digital channel via the G-Link because the format of the channel numbers (C.s, C-s, or in the annoying case of the DTVPal, 00C0s) is not something it can deal with - it only knows how to tune 1 to 3-digit cable channel numbers via the G-Link. Enter the DTVPal and Macrovision, which (Pal in TVGOS mode) perform 3 functions to trick the old TV back to life:

1) Convert the SCTE-127 VBI-in-MPEG data (from the digital channel tuned) to its analog outputs as normal NTSC VBI. This allows the TV to receive the guide, assuming the TV has some means to cause the Pal to tune to a TVGOS host (see 3 below.)

2) Provide (Macrovision) specially coded guide lineups for OTA (the odd zipcodes) as well as the regular OTA and cable lineups in the SCTE-127 data. These lineups substitute 3-digit cable channel numbers for the actual digital S-c channels seen in the regular lineups. The Pal becomes a fictional analog cable provider as far as the TV and TVGOS are concerned... quite possibly the ONLY cable provider that will NEVER do away with its analog channels.

3) Provide the means (G-Link) for the TV to send the 3-digit numbers to the Pal to cause it to change channels (both for purposes of tuning a desired program the user wants to watch, and for purposes of tuning to the digital host channel so the TV can receive guide data when the TV appears to be turned off.)

THIS ^^^^ THIS is the "approved" use of the DTVPal with a legacy device, and the only one that customer support personnel will ever understand. Your LG lies in the netherland of a TVGOS device that can tune digital channels just fine on its own, without any help from the DTVPal, yet needs the DTVPal to receive an analog guide, the only kind it can process. We have long hypothesized that the DTVPal could be used for exactly this, and you have effectively now proven that is true. No G-Link is required, though you must remember the rather non-trivial step involving the Scientific Atlanta IR transmission necessary to get the Pal going - no average consumer is going to understand that. This puts you smack dab into the "Unsupported" category - I doubt there's a CS rep who would have been intelligent enough to have dreamed up your (rather elegant) setup.

So there you go. You are simply being rejected for being too smart and for owning something a tad more sophisticated than a 10 year old TV set.
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post #5934 of 7319 Old 05-07-2009, 01:49 PM
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Like the Bumblebee, who doesn't know that it's wing size cannot support its own body weight.... because it was never explained to him....
So because it doesn't know it's not supposted to be able to fly, it flys anyway!

That's kind-of how I feel right now!!!

Thanks for your post.... it fits with the analogy!

Looking for a 1939 Indian Motocycle
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post #5935 of 7319 Old 05-07-2009, 04:06 PM
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Third unit now working fine.... Moved from ABC to DTVPal off CBS 2-1.

Unit #1 was first birthday'd and setup from Square One ! Took 2 days instead of the normal 1 day.
Unit #2 and #3 were just re-locked from 7-0 ABC to 3-0 DTVPal. One worked immediately, the other took 3 days... and I was wondering if I would have to First Birthday it. Based upon this... I'm re-locking the 4th to DTVPal..

The BUMBLEBEE is FLYING!!! !

Looking for a 1939 Indian Motocycle
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post #5936 of 7319 Old 05-07-2009, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Jan J View Post
I replied that I've never seen ANYTHING about a "Supported" interconnect diagram or methodology that mentions LG3410a and DTVPal in the same document....
And my guess is we never will. They state clearly "You only need to perform the following steps if you have a TV, DVD recorder, or VCR that includes TV Guide On Screen or Guide Plus." and the 3410a is clearly not one of those. Those are assumed to only have an ntsc tuner. When following the url to tvgos/support pages and being redirected to the new macrovision pages, there are only 3 products listed under the LG tab. I don't recognize them by the numbers, but no 3410a.

My situation must still be in flux. Still waiting for a guide.

 

TVGOS LG Support.pdf 148.0595703125k . file

 

dtvpal host mode.pdf 193.4677734375k . file
Attached Files
File Type: pdf dtvpal host mode.pdf (193.5 KB, 164 views)
File Type: pdf TVGOS LG Support.pdf (148.1 KB, 143 views)
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post #5937 of 7319 Old 05-07-2009, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan J View Post

Unit #1 was first birthday'd and setup from ground zero. Took 2 days instead of the normal 1 day.

Jan, as my sage engineer-turned-English-major mentor from the 60s once reminded me, "ground zero" is where the bomb lands. Unless you want Unit #1 to blow up, you mean "square one".
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post #5938 of 7319 Old 05-07-2009, 09:38 PM
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This part is (literally) HISTORY

So, although there is still no indication of the legacy stream locally, I decided last week to set up my DTVPal in readiness. So I joined the output from the Pal to the antenna signal going directly to my 3410a, and made sure that that was ready.

Then today, I got around to trying to set up my multifunction Sony remote to emulate a Scientific Atlantic remote, which was no big deal, since my remote's manual had the proper codes...at first I couldn't get the remote to work, even though the Pal was blinking when I punched in numbers with the remote set to Sci At. Then it occurred to me that maybe that only works when the Pal is in TVGOS mode (which it wasn't, because when the Pal powers up, it's in normal mode). So when I returned it to TVGOS mode, THEN my remote was able to change the channel.

(Subsequent to this post as originally written, the legacy stream appeared in the SF Bay area, and - with this setup - I see A and B packets to my 3410a at about the same rates as I see packets from PBS 9 and CBS 5, which broadcast TVGOS in our area...so far so good. However, although my unit rapidly acquired channel 3 as host, I did NOT get any listings for any of the zip code setups that I tried, despite getting channel lineups - this continued UNTIL I did the reset of CBS channel 5 ANALOG to channel 3, as discussed below...THEN I got listings (at least as of Sept. 11)!

So my current 3410a/DTVPal set up as of 9/11/2009) is:
(This also works for reinstating the clock/grid/lineup for the Sony 250, except for obvious differences in the diagnostic menus, AND the fact that you don't have to worry about changing the local TVGOS station in the lineup to channel 3/4, because you will probably be getting the program listings directly from the digital station.)

- LG3410a with normal setting, i.e., with TVGOS set to my real zip code and (in my case) for OTA only.

- The Pal set in TVGOS mode with output on channel 3 (though, depending on your area, you may need to have set the Pal output to channel 4), joined with the antenna feed going to the 3410a.

- Then, with my universal remote set with one of its slots now emulating a Sci At remote, I tune the Pal-already-in-TVGOS-mode to 151* (aka CBS 5.1, the TVGOS broadcast station in my area), after which the converted TVGOS data will show up in the output. (This step MUST be performed even if the Pal is already tuned to the TVGOS digital broadcast station, because it activates the TVGOS data conversion and insertion into the vbi of the Pal's output channel. As you press each number into the remote, you should see the front light of the Pal blink...)

- In the 3410a, you should do a channel scan with this setup, so that channel 3/4 appears (although this probably doesn't affect the unit's ability to initially find the Pal output on channel 3 as the host channel). If you then tune to channel 3/4 during an analog TVGOS download period, and then go into the diagnostic menu of the 3410a, you should be able to see packets A and B incrementing in the current channel column.

- My experience is that the unit will find channel 3/4 as its host channel pretty fast, and within a day (or at most 2) it will have a grid and a channel lineup. However, you won't get LISTINGS unless - as noted by rkg22 in the TVGOS thread - you go into the channel lineup editor in the TV Guide, find the CBS station broadcasting TVGOS data, turn it on if it isn't already, and change its channel to 3/4.

In the case of the 3410a, the channel lineup should have both analog and digital OTA channels (as well as lots of cable channels), though the analog channels would ordinarily be turned off for OTA. So in my case, the lineup had the CBS analog channel (KPIX 5) turned off, and the CBS digital channel (KPIX 5.1) turned on.

I therefore turned on KPIX 5 and changed its channel number to 3, and left the unit overnight. The next day I had the usual day 1,2,3,8 listings! (I was also able to set recordings from the guide, an amazing pleasure after doing without for months!)

NOTES:

*entering the channel into the SA simulating remote, you need to use the 3-digit number that is 100 + 10 times your digital broadcast channel. In my case, this is 100 + 10 X 5.1 = 151.

I have also found that - if I turnoff the power to the Pal (or there's an outage), when power returns, the Pal comes back on in TVGOS mode and STILL tuned to the channel it was one, but I still have to use the "SA" remote to reenter the channel number in order to once again activate the TVGOS conversion.

Some have said it MAY be necessary to make sure the Pal's picture mode is set to ZOOM before putting it into TVGOS mode, though this need is in doubt, as far as I can tell.

Jan J (here) has noted that if the Pal reboots due to power loss, it will come back in TVGOS mode, but it is necessary AGAIN to use the SA emulated remote to actively set the digital TVGOS channel again to activate conversion. I have found this to be the case.

Others have apparently experienced the Pal stopping its insertion of the converted TVGOS data into the vbi of the converted output on channel 3 or 4 after several days, so that one has to use the SA-emulating remote to change the to - or from and BACK to - 151 or whatever represents YOUR digital TVGGOS broadcast channel.(My own experienced is that this only happens if I have a loss of power.

I do, however, experience periodic - and perhaps persistent - problems with having to reboot my 3410a to continue getting listings...

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #5939 of 7319 Old 05-08-2009, 04:59 AM
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- The Pal set in TVGOS mode with output on channel 3, joined with the antenna feed before going to the 3410a.

Just make sure you've rescanned the 3410a to make sure it turns on and can display the new analog channel 3 (presumably it never had an analog 3 before).
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post #5940 of 7319 Old 05-08-2009, 10:18 AM
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Just make sure you've rescanned the 3410a to make sure it turns on and can display the new analog channel 3 (presumably it never had an analog 3 before).

oh, yes, it's been set up for 3 ever since I got my DTVPal last summer, and it sees the Pal output fine (enough)...of course, I'll probably have to do a full rescan after June 12

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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