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post #3481 of 8832 Old 08-17-2006, 06:21 PM
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Try TW San Antonio and Time Warner ST john.El Paso has changed their info but try interacive tv on these sites its part of mystro.Also i learned that caller id on tv came from the mystro project.TW st john has a lot of the new graphics on there i just checked it it's 920 pm eastern time here.Hope this helps.
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post #3482 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I just want to let everyone who seems to think I'm crazy or being an apologist when I defend SA and the SA8300HD to check out the latest Tivo/Dish lawsuit thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...70#post8233870

Cheers, Dave
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post #3483 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 07:02 AM
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Round and round we go, Dave....

Do you mean to tell us that a company (Tivo) who worked their asses off and spent millions of dollars to develop a technology should not have the right to defend themselves from companies (EchoStar) who willfully ignore the law of the land and try to mimic or duplicate their work ? Let's not dredge this crap up again. You were wrong before, and you're wrong now.
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post #3484 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Simoneau View Post

Round and round we go, Dave....

Do you mean to tell us that a company (Tivo) who worked their asses off and spent millions of dollars to develop a technology should not have the right to defend themselves from companies (EchoStar) who willfully ignore the law of the land and try to mimic or duplicate their work ? Let's not dredge this crap up again. You were wrong before, and you're wrong now.

No, he is not wrong. I was recording live tv and timeshifting it long before Tivo.
These patents are too generic and Tivo is just living off lawsuits with their stupid patents. "work their asses off", RIGHT

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post #3485 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't say or even hint that at all, Paul, why the animosity? All I'm saying is that folks who call me an apologist because I say that many of the 8300 shortcomings are due to Tivo patents need to keep up with what is going on between Tivo and Echostar before they chastize me, sheesh!

I'm all for Tivo defending their patents, as I've said many times (if you'd read), just don't expect everyone else to pay licensing fees if they think they can come up with another way of getting the job done and don't bash proigrammers for doing things a different way.

I'll even defend Tivo against those who believe many of these features (other than the VCR-like features) fall under the general use clause (or whatever it's called) and shouldn't be subject to a patent in the first place.

And no, it's not round and round we go. If that's what you got out of my post, then you need to get a life or find someone else to pick on. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong, but you are way off base here and need to count to 10 my friend.

And I'll dredge up any crap I feel like, thank you very much. When you become a Moderator here, you can try to censor me if you like, but until then, just go away. I don't know how you figure I was ever wrong. All I've ever said is that many features are patented by Tivo. If that's wrong, I'd like to know what's right.

Cheers, Dave
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post #3486 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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foghorn, you make a very good point. I don't have a list of all Tivo patents, nor does the current news point out all the disputed features, but the patents certainly should not include VCR features like FF, etc., From what I understand, Tivo has patented the use of the HDD recording (vice the buffer area) for many features and SA may have licensed some of that so they could include the new join in progress features in 1.88.x.x software. The only point to my post was to show that Tivo does indeed hold many patents on this stuff and that is why SA and other companies often program around them in different ways to get the same result. Paul is just looking for another fight and nothing more. But, hey, I'm on vacation just relaxing and I've got a lot of time on my hands.

Cheers, Dave
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post #3487 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 08:06 AM
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FWIW I called TWC San Antonio this morning to ask about the Mystro software being installed. The guy checked into it and said that from what info he got was that it would be by end of year. When I asked him to be more specific he said he would send an email up the food chain to try to get more specifics for me. I also asked him the big question of whether or not the mystro software would disable those of us who have external HDs up and running. He had no clue on that but said he would ask. Whether or not I ever get a respons email is a WHOLE DIFFERENT MATTER. My hopes aren't that high, but you never know.

Brian
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post #3488 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


The 8300 in zoom mode does provide some small adjustment... but it's snarky. As SOON as you hit the zoom function, you CAN use the up/down buttons to slightly shift the picture. Too late and nothing happens.

This was posted in the Passport thread. I'm not in Phoenix right now, but can someone see if there is any adjustment for the Zoom mode with SARA?

Cheers, Dave
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post #3489 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayd8tor View Post

FWIW I called TWC San Antonio this morning to ask about the Mystro software being installed. The guy checked into it and said that from what info he got was that it would be by end of year. When I asked him to be more specific he said he would send an email up the food chain to try to get more specifics for me. I also asked him the big question of whether or not the mystro software would disable those of us who have external HDs up and running. He had no clue on that but said he would ask. Whether or not I ever get a respons email is a WHOLE DIFFERENT MATTER. My hopes aren't that high, but you never know.

Brian

The fact that you got someone on the phone from TWC San Antonio that knew what you were talking about shocks me. They never had any idea on what firmware 1.88 meant when I asked about its release here locally to fix the 1.87 bugs.
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post #3490 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegggas View Post

Mystro was designed and started development in 2001 with Time Warner and AOL to offer Tivo-like features on their platform.. In early 2003, they announced an immediate release strategy and expected to use the service on all their available DVR's.
Something happened after that announcment that (maybe a lawsuit threat from Tivo?) has kept the product from being released to consumers. Now it's five years after the birth, and Mystro is again being mentioned in a post from some user on a website. TimeWarner has not yet announced (again) Mystro as a replacement for DVR software for the company.
This is never as simple as just sitting around with a few programmers and making the DVR do what the consensus thinks it should do, or else it would have been in use for many years already.

A few hits from news sources in 2003:
http://news.com.com/2117-1025-991788.html
http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2003/10/aols_mystro_pvr.html

vegggas

veggas,

The use of the name "Mystro" is causing some confusion. Apparently TW has been using "Mystro" as the code name for their new OCAP software. Here is a link to one of the TW locations (Nebraska) that has announced the software:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/nebra...ro/page_1.html
It is interesting to note here that they never use the term Mystro in the text (now called just Digital Navigator), but it is in the URL. Apparently there is some current re-thinking of the brand.

As I read things (help me out here if I have this wrong), this apparently sits on top of SARA or Passport and should not impact basic DVR functions (or bugs!), but basically is a new interface with the IPG.

I've got to assume here that agreements have been reached with TiVo on IP.

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post #3491 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 01:35 PM
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Yes, it basically looks like a new IPG interface that sits on top of SARA or Passport. It's a different way to get to all the existing features of the hardware. Maybe a lot of users will like the new interface, and now TWC won't have to pay for the SARA IPG anymore.
OCAP makes much more sense than a TWC written application. Since everyone is moving to OCAP in the near future, it wouldn't make much sense to launch a new application this late in the game. The same OCAP application can be downloaded into consumer purchased STB's or they could use their own default software.


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post #3492 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 02:41 PM
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I have just been scannng the nebraska navigator info.Seems Mystro is now called Time Warner Digital Navigator.It looks sweet.Changes to our dvr funtions listed (A) KEYWORD SEARCH at last.(B)Improved conflict management.(C) New series manager with more recording options -looks like manual recording has been dropped.(D)Could not tell exactly but looks like we mght have folders(E)Improved start and end time feature(F)Improved theme and title search in addiion to keyword.Check ou ths site gives much information on the (mystro(Time Warner digital navigator.
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post #3493 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 03:19 PM
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Does anyone have an idea on how this software would effect an external SATA drive. I was about to pull the trigger on the maxtor quickview expander, but don't want to do this if the new software could make it obsolete. Obviously, if they switch to motorola, I'd have to find another use for it.

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post #3494 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_broncos View Post

Does anyone have an idea on how this software would effect an external SATA drive. I was about to pull the trigger on the maxtor quickview expander, but don't want to do this if the new software could make it obsolete. Obviously, if they switch to motorola, I'd have to find another use for it.

It's obviously a crapshoot as it's always been, since no cable company ever said they were actively supporting it in the first place.
If they did, you could order it through them instead of making up your own concoction.

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post #3495 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 03:39 PM
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As this IPG software basically sits on top of SARA (or Passport) wouldn't you think that the basic recording functions (including ext drive) would remain the same?

But I suppose, this might be a good opportunity for cable to intentionally disable the external drive function (as the rumors have indicated they will)?

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post #3496 of 8832 Old 08-18-2006, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_broncos View Post

Does anyone have an idea on how this software would effect an external SATA drive. I was about to pull the trigger on the maxtor quickview expander, but don't want to do this if the new software could make it obsolete. Obviously, if they switch to motorola, I'd have to find another use for it.

This will only effect Time Warner Cable. Comcast will take over the Houston market in early 2007. I don't think Houston TWC will implement this in Houston before the takeover. Click here to go to my post about possible future Comcast DVRs in Houston.
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post #3497 of 8832 Old 08-19-2006, 11:16 AM
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Dave,
Did you add the "disk defrag" into the first post. It happens about 5 minutes after the power is turned off on most systems after a 1.88 upgrade. The process can take several hours to all day to complete and will restart after content is deleted and the power down sequence is repeated.
For maximum efficiency, I turn off the STB, then do a front panel soft reboot VOL-, VOL +, INFO and leave the STB powerd off until I hear it go into defrag mode, and then just leave it off while I go to work.

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post #3498 of 8832 Old 08-19-2006, 03:07 PM
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Ever since I added the external drive, the dvr has been auto-switching me from the recorded show I'm currently watching to the new show that it's starting (programmed) to record. I still do not have the 1.88.x.x upgrade, so I don't know what else would cause my system to behave this way.
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post #3499 of 8832 Old 08-19-2006, 03:52 PM
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Spoke to my local TW office ths morning.I was told that the sara guide and passprt guide are being replaced by the new mystro software.The Mystro name was familiar to the gentleman i spoke with but he said the name might change.He stated all new dvr software had be written by Time Warner itself and some licensed from Tivo.He said he was under the impression it was going to be released over the next six months and that it was very very Tivo like in the samples he had seen.He said he had heard external hard drives would still be ok and TW is looking into renting them.He seemed to know what he was talking about so we can all hope.I had heard that sara and passport were going to be stripped out guess this confims it.Only reason motorola boxes getting it first is the adlephie deal.Tw has no plans to replace the SA boxes.So over the next six months Comcast customers get Tivo boxes and we TW customers get Mystro software.Guess by next year we will have Mystro or whatever they finally call it tread.Hope this info helps.
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post #3500 of 8832 Old 08-19-2006, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

veggas,

The use of the name "Mystro" is causing some confusion. Apparently TW has been using "Mystro" as the code name for their new OCAP software. Here is a link to one of the TW locations (Nebraska) that has announced the software:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/nebra...ro/page_1.html
It is interesting to note here that they never use the term “Mystro” in the text (now called just “Digital Navigator”), but it is in the URL. Apparently there is some current re-thinking of the brand.

As I read things (help me out here if I have this wrong), this apparently sits on top of SARA or Passport and should not impact basic DVR functions (or bugs!), but basically is a new interface with the IPG.

I've got to assume here that agreements have been reached with TiVo on IP.

While reading the above web site, I noticed a few things. Some of these are mentioned by Crazywoody.

The guide has been lengthened. Either it is 8 days in advance or up to two weeks in advance. The redesigned Navigator will help you find programs that are right for you and your family up to 8 days in advance.
or
For instance, by linking DVR with the redesigned Navigator™ we make it possible to find shows up to two weeks in advance and set them to record with the touch of a button.

I think they tried to simplify the interface and in that process they may have eliminated some SARA options. They may have used a Passport option instead. The following is a list of what I didn't see:
1) I didn't see a record by timeslot (I just see "all" or "first run").
2) I didn't see a manual record.
3) I didn't see an Erase after X number of days (I just see "Do Not Delete" or "Save Until Space is Needed").

The following is a list of some of the new things I saw listed:
1) You can group your favorite channels to be viewed together in the IPG.
2) You can search for shows by using a virtual keyboard.
3) You change start or ending recording time by X number of minutes instead of actual times.
4) There is a Record Log that shows why a show didn't record.

This is probably not a complete list. Please post if I made any incorrect statements or left out any important items.

Someone who has Time Warner Cable should create a new thread for Time Warner Cable Navigator. I would create it but I won't have Time Warner Cable much longer because Houston is being taken over by Comcast in early 2007.
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post #3501 of 8832 Old 08-19-2006, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegggas View Post

Dave,
Did you add the "disk defrag" to the first post.

No, I didn't, probably because I don't recall seeing any follow-up discussion about it. I assume the instructions are still:

To defrag the drive (1.88.x.x):
  • Set the DVR's MAIN channel and PIP channel to non-bufferable channels, such as a music channel, so that the drive is not being used.
  • Wait a few moments to verify that hard disk activity stops (listen).
  • Press the Power button on the front of the STB to turn the unit off, then wait.
  • The drive should start defragging after about 5 minutes of inactivity.
    NOTE: The process can take several hours to all day to complete and will restart after content is deleted and the power down sequence is repeated. For maximum efficiency, consider turning off the STB, then do a front panel soft reboot (VOL-, VOL +, INFO) and leave the STB powered off until you hear it go into defrag mode, then just leave it off while you go to work, to bed, etc.

Cheers, Dave
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post #3502 of 8832 Old 08-19-2006, 05:53 PM
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I'm not sure that you have to go a non-bufferable channel, as I do, but that about sums it up.

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post #3503 of 8832 Old 08-19-2006, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, it's been added to all 3 sites I post to.

Cheers, Dave
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post #3504 of 8832 Old 08-20-2006, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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vegggas,

I'm not sure what the bold highlighted part of the instructions means:
Quote:


NOTE: The process can take several hours to all day to complete and will restart after content is deleted and the power down sequence is repeated. For maximum efficiency, consider turning off the STB, then do a front panel soft reboot (VOL-, VOL +, INFO) and leave the STB powered off until you hear it go into defrag mode, then just leave it off while you go to work, to bed, etc.


Cheers, Dave
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post #3505 of 8832 Old 08-20-2006, 05:53 AM
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Has any forum member with Cox in Fairfax Co. Virginia got the SARA firmware update to makes the 1394 ports active on their HD8300. I swapped out my older HD8300 for a new one that the tech at the Cox Herndon office thought would support 1394, but it still has the older firmware. I then requested a new firmware download (a couple of days ago), but it hasn't happened yet. My 8300 has 1.87.xxx firmware and its my understanding the 1394 came in with the 1.88.xxx version.

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post #3506 of 8832 Old 08-20-2006, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

I'm all for Tivo defending their patents, as I've said many times (if you'd read), just don't expect everyone else to pay licensing fees if they think they can come up with another way of getting the job done and don't bash proigrammers for doing things a different way.

If there was another way of getting the job done, then there would be no problem here. Patents are supposed to cover a specific method of functionality. If there's another way to skin the cat, you're in the clear, and can do whatever you want to do without fear of patent infringement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

I'll even defend Tivo against those who believe many of these features (other than the VCR-like features) fall under the general use clause (or whatever it's called) and shouldn't be subject to a patent in the first place.

Well, there was plenty of reivew of the patents in question during the TiVo vs. EchoStar trial by lots and lots of lawyers and judges, and you know what ? The majority of their patented assertions stood. A few were knocked down, but the key features and methods they had patented stood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

And I'll dredge up any crap I feel like, thank you very much. When you become a Moderator here, you can try to censor me if you like, but until then, just go away. I don't know how you figure I was ever wrong. All I've ever said is that many features are patented by Tivo. If that's wrong, I'd like to know what's right.

And when you get moderator priviledges here, you can tell me what to do. Otherwise, I'll be staying here as long as I like.

My problem with you, Dave, is that whenever someone points out a shortcoming of this box (and there are many), your first knee-jerk reaction to the problem is that "Tivo's got that patented, WAH!". Even though in another post in this thread you stated YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TIVO HAS PATENTED. How can you argue that the 8300 blows due to TiVo patents when you have no idea what you're talking about ? Sounds like unwarranted TiVo-bashing to me. Get a clue.
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post #3507 of 8832 Old 08-20-2006, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foghorn2 View Post

No, he is not wrong. I was recording live tv and timeshifting it long before Tivo.
These patents are too generic and Tivo is just living off lawsuits with their stupid patents. "work their asses off", RIGHT

Wow. You must have been the most popular person on your block. I bet the people came from miles around to watch the amazing foghorn2 perform the miracle of timeshifting.

Getting back on topic... The patents in question were just put under intense scrutiny in the TiVo vs. EchoStar trial. If the patents in question were bogus because they were too general, or there was prior art, they would have been invalidated. Since they stood, I'm going to go ahead and assume that they're valid patents. You can believe whatever you want, but those of us living in the world of reality see these patents of justified and valid.

TiVo is NOT sitting on their patents and taking anyone to court who looks like they're doing something DVR-ish. They're selling a product and service based upon a technology they invented. They deserve a fair place in the marketplace to sell their wares. Allowing anyone to copy or sell knockoffs of their technology undercuts their very business model, and sets a dangerous precedent in the business world. If knockoffs were allowed here in the US marketplace (Chinese piracy and knockoffs typically stay overseas) no one would want to spent a dime on R & D, because as soon as they put something in stores, they're would be 10 copies of it instantly and their investment would have been all for naught.

This is not NTP sitting on their asses, waiting to sue Research In Motion for the Blackberry, and holding them hostage for $600million.

If you can't see the difference between TiVo's position, and NTP's, you really should read up a bit on patents and the law before you start spouting off here.

You may now re-commence waving your SciAtl 8300 HD DVR POS pom-poms now.
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post #3508 of 8832 Old 08-20-2006, 12:09 PM
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vegggas,

I'm not sure what the bold highlighted part of the instructions means:

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Originally Posted by vegggas View Post

NOTE: The process can take several hours to all day to complete and will restart after content is deleted and the power down sequence is repeated. For maximum efficiency, consider turning off the STB, then do a front panel soft reboot (VOL-, VOL +, INFO) and leave the STB powered off until you hear it go into defrag mode, then just leave it off while you go to work, to bed, etc.

This just means that once a defrag is complete it will not defrag again until you delete some content and turn off the unit again.

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post #3509 of 8832 Old 08-20-2006, 08:23 PM
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Here's a little tip that I've been using for quite some time, although, I've just been taking it for granted all these years, until someone came over today and was totally blown away by the usefulness of it. This works for most Digital STB's with a USB port.
Quite simply, I use the USB port on my digital STB to power a notebook LED light with a switch on it. During dark DVD viewing, my STB provides the power for the light, which is enough to read the lables on the DVD's and cases, etc. Note - STB is higher than the DVD, and the LED shines down onto the loading tray of the DVD.
Apparently, He'd never heard of this, nor thought of it, and had been using a small AC/DC flourescent light for the same thing. It was too bright and temporarily left him "night blind" until his eyes re-adjusted back in the dark
Hopefully someone else finds this useful too.

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post #3510 of 8832 Old 08-21-2006, 06:24 AM
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Here's a little tip that I've been using for quite some time, although, I've just been taking it for granted all these years, until someone came over today and was totally blown away by the usefulness of it. This works for most Digital STB's with a USB port.
Quite simply, I use the USB port on my digital STB to power a notebook LED light with a switch on it. During dark DVD viewing, my STB provides the power for the light, which is enough to read the lables on the DVD's and cases, etc. Note - STB is higher than the DVD, and the LED shines down onto the loading tray of the DVD.
Apparently, He'd never heard of this, nor thought of it, and had been using a small AC/DC flourescent light for the same thing. It was too bright and temporarily left him "night blind" until his eyes re-adjusted back in the dark
Hopefully someone else finds this useful too.

vegggas

Yup I've also seen/heard of people using laptop cooling fans to keep STB's nice and cool if they're in an enclosed space. All you're doing is drawing power from the USB connection. Very useful.
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