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post #181 of 192 Old 11-15-2008, 10:22 AM
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Your post is the most encouraging. Where in the Verizon world are you? My situation is 2 6416's (one with multi-room feed to two 6200's) and three braindead stb's with one JVC HM-DH5U. The lip sync issue is annoying and not consistent. Sometimes it is perfect and sometimes it varies coming out of the 6416 (port independent) anywhere from barely but noticeable to 1.5 seconds.

Has anyone figured out how to enable more external HDD space via one of its ports?

Has anyone noticed that FiOS storage uses more disk space than Comcast HD on the same box. Instead of 1% per hour for reg programming and 4% /hour for HD, this box's software is now 50% bigger loading.

Sorry for all the questions.
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post #182 of 192 Old 11-29-2008, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoHD1 View Post

Your post is the most encouraging. Where in the Verizon world are you? My situation is 2 6416's (one with multi-room feed to two 6200's) and three braindead stb's with one JVC HM-DH5U. The lip sync issue is annoying and not consistent. Sometimes it is perfect and sometimes it varies coming out of the 6416 (port independent) anywhere from barely but noticeable to 1.5 seconds.

Has anyone figured out how to enable more external HDD space via one of its ports?

Has anyone noticed that FiOS storage uses more disk space than Comcast HD on the same box. Instead of 1% per hour for reg programming and 4% /hour for HD, this box's software is now 50% bigger loading.

Sorry for all the questions.

Once and a while on some channels watching live video from the digital boxes I have seen lip sync issues. Sometimes the issue is with the channel. I have not noticed lip sync issues recording but to be honest my family members watch cable and make recordings where I watch almost 100% BLU-RAY prerecorded movie discs. I only use the Cable for Internet accept when I am hooking up the TV's and electronics for people. My other family members have 3 6200's and one 6416 box they are renting from Verizon. Each 6200 has one HM-DH5U D-VHS connected and the 6416 HD DVR has two HM-DT100U connected. The Motorola 7216 HD DVR boxes that Verizon will be rolling out in the future has a external eSATA port to connect a external hard drive when the internal hard drive is full. The USB ports are currently disabled on the 6200's and 6416 boxes. In the future when BLU-RAY standalone recorders arrive in the United States I will be replacing the D-VHS machines with BLU-RAY recorders. BLU-RAY recorders are suppose to have a IEEE-1394 interface and some of the models are also most likely going to have two way QAM tuners with support for two way cable cards with built in DVR. I am hoping for a 2009 or 2010 release of a BLU-RAY standalone recorder. Someday the D-VHS machines will break and will no longer be able to be repaired. Also quality name brand optical discs last longer then tape.

Here is a link to the boxes Verizon offers and a detailed user guide PDF

http://www22.verizon.com/Residential...ser+Guides.htm

One of the reasons why the Verizon boxes are most likely filling up the hard drive faster is because the HD and SD channels are bit for bit identical to the original broadcast. Verizon has the bandwidth with its 100% fiber to the side of the house to offer higher bit rate video and in the future higher bit rate audio. On another cable system that has less bandwidth there will be a lower bit rate for the channels. So it would make perfect sence that since Verizon has a higher bit rate for channels that more space will be used on the hard drive. Also diffrent models and brands of boxes have diffrent sizes for hard drive storage.
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post #183 of 192 Old 05-05-2009, 02:42 PM
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If your cable box has a dead FireWire/1394 port on it, there is an FCC web site you can use to complain. First of all, you need to see if your cable company will fix it. Call them a couple of times and tell them that they are in violation of the FCC mandate. Toss in words like "violation of FCC rulings covered in CS Docket 97-80" and "requirements specified in 47 C.F.R. 76.640(b)(4)" That will let the help desk know that you know what you are talking about. If they refuse, then ask to talk to a supervisor. If the supervisor does not give you any help, then go to this link on the FCC web site:
esupport dot fcc dot gov slash complaints dot htm
It is pretty easy to figure out. Select "Broadcast Cable and Satellite Issues". then "DTV Issues" then fill out the electronic form. If you use the same words in your complaint about "Docket 97-80" and "47 C.F.R. 76.640(b)(4)" then the FCC will know what you are talking about. You should include who your cable provider is, when you called them, how many times you called them, and what they said back to you.

This actually works. I got this from a guy who did it, got a letter back from the FCC in a few weeks and the next day he had a phone call from Comcast asking if "Tomorrow would be convenient". They fixed his FireWire port the next day.

Jeff
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post #184 of 192 Old 03-12-2010, 01:30 PM
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Problem using the Motorola 7100 series digital cable box with a D-VHS when on the Verizon FIOS network

Before I mention the problem I will go into some details about the old 6000 series Motorola boxes. My family members have several D-VHS machines and my family members rent several Motorola 6200 series HD boxes from Verizon including one Motorola 6416 HD DVR. The Motorola 6000 series has two IEEE-1394 firewire ports on the back. I can connect two D-VHS machines to one Motorola HD box or HD DVR box and the recordings are 100% perfect with no problems.

The problem with the Motorola 7100 series

Motorola no longer makes the 6000 series boxes and when one of the 6000 series boxes went bad, Verizon replaced it with a 7100 series box. The 7100 series only has one IEEE-1394 firewire port instead of two ports found on the 6000 series. When connecting a Motorola 7100 series HD cable box to a D-VHS using a IEEE-1394 interface the D-VHS receives the signal and everything appears to be perfect, but there is a problem as soon as the record button is pushed. It does not matter what channel one tries to record, as soon as the record button is pushed about every 5 to 10 seconds a picture and sound quality digital artifact is recorded on the tape. Its some type of digital artifact that makes the picture and sound quality distorted every 5 to 10 seconds. It makes the recording unusable since the audio and video every 5 to 10 seconds is interrupted. What is weird is that the 7100 series boxes firewire connection works fine when connected to the D-VHS, it is only when one tries to record something like NBC, PBS or any other channel that the recording can not be made without major artifacts every 5 to 10 seconds. Did Motorola or Verizon do this on purpose with the new 7100 series boxes when one tries to record from the IEEE-1394 interface or is this just a software glitch? There is already in place the 5C copy protection system that content providers can use when one wants to copy protect a program. I hope Verizon or Motorola would not purposely make the IEEE-1394 interface cause problems that would stop all programs from being recorded over the firewire interface. I might try and see if Verizon lets me have a old 6000 series box again since those work perfectly fine when recording onto a D-VHS (6000 series boxes are not made anymore). I could try another 7100 series box but I think all of the 7100 series boxes will do the same thing as soon as someone tries to record onto D-VHS.

If anyone has Verizon FIOS and a D-VHS you will need to get a 6000 series HD DVR or HD cable box if you want to record using the IEEE-1394 connection. The 7100 series inserts a glitch into the recording every 5 to 10 seconds over I-link. I wish a software update to the 7100 series would fix this problem but I get the feeling this was purposely designed copy protection system placed into the new 7100 series boxes that will not allow one to record anything including the local news.

Hopefully by at least 2012 we will see a few Blu-ray standalone recorders arrive in the United States. Those first machines should have a IEEE-1394 interface just like the discontinued D-VHS machines. Then maybe the firewire connection will become more popular and get more support.

Link for more details on the Verizon boxes
http://www22.verizon.com/ResidentialHelp/FiOSTV/General+Support/User+Guides/User+Guides.htm
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post #185 of 192 Old 03-13-2010, 10:37 AM
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I am a bit confused about your statements. On one had you say the 7xxx series boxes work fine with D-VHS decks, but on the other you say every 5-10 seconds there is a glitch.

Are you recording to DVHS tape on the DVHS machine and seeing these glitches, or are you using a PC with CapDVHS or Mac with the Firewire SDK seeing these glitches?

If it doesnt work with the DVHS machine and you are sure your DVHS tapes are good, then file a complaint with the FCC.

There 0 chance that firewire interfaces wiil become more popular, as (1) the content owners dont want firewire transports, and (2) Blu-ray recorders will not become popular anytime soon, and even if they do come to market, they will likely have integrated tuners and therefore no need for a firewire transport.
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post #186 of 192 Old 03-13-2010, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

I am a bit confused about your statements. On one had you say the 7xxx series boxes work fine with D-VHS decks, but on the other you say every 5-10 seconds there is a glitch.

Are you recording to DVHS tape on the DVHS machine and seeing these glitches, or are you using a PC with CapDVHS or Mac with the Firewire SDK seeing these glitches?

If it doesnt work with the DVHS machine and you are sure your DVHS tapes are good, then file a complaint with the FCC.

There 0 chance that firewire interfaces wiil become more popular, as (1) the content owners dont want firewire transports, and (2) Blu-ray recorders will not become popular anytime soon, and even if they do come to market, they will likely have integrated tuners and therefore no need for a firewire transport.

I am sorry if my post was not clear enough. I tested two D-VHS machines with the exact same blank tape with several 6000 series boxes and all recordings worked fine. When I installed the 7100 series box the firewire connection works fine as long as you do not try and record the program. As soon as you hit record there is something in the data stream that messes with the D-VHS recording that makes it unusable since about every 5-10 seconds video and audio is lost. When I get more time I will see if Verizon will allow me to have another old 6000 series box that works fine for recording on D-VHS machines. 6000 series boxes also have 2 firewire jacks which allows two D-VHS machines to be connected at the same time.

Most likely Blu-ray standalone recorders will at the very minimum have a built in ATSC/QAM tuner and perhaps some will even have a cable card. A firewire connection or other digital conection would be ideal for dubbing home made family videos between Blu-ray recorders and camcorders.
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post #187 of 192 Old 03-13-2010, 03:12 PM
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I don't understand why you're surprised about this latest 1-port version of Motorola boxes for FIOS has a broken firewire interface?

Though I'm not familiar with the FIOS version of these boxes, it sounds like the new 7xxx series kind of corresponds to the new DCX family versions for cable, which also dropped from the previous 2-port working firewire interface to a 1-port broken firewire interface.

And yes, just like you're saying you have to revert back to the previous 2-port 6xxx series of the FIOS/Motorola boxes to get working firewire interface, we have the same exact "solution" on the cable side... requiring that you stick with the earlier 2-port DCH or DCT models of the Motorola boxes with their 100% working firewire interfaces.

There is a very long sub-discussion about the broken firewire interface on the 1-port DCX product in the thread devoted to that unit, describing symptoms EXACTLY AS YOU HAVE DESCRIBED FOR YOUR 7100 FIOS-VERSION OF THIS NEW 1-PORT MOTOROLA BOX. EXACT SAME SYMPTOMS... word for word, when trying to record from DVR to DVHS (or PC, for that matter).

It is completely obvious now that Motorola has totally broken firewire support (probably not intentionally, but definitely and absolutely) as an unintended consequence of downsizing from 2-ports to 1-port. Something else that should have probably been done in firmware, to support the 1-port instead of 2-ports, was either not done or was done incorrectly.

A complaint to the FCC is probably not the most effective way to get this resolved, though perhaps it might actually cause some action and pressure to be placed on Motorola (who did the breaking, after all) from the intermediary cable company or Verizon. I first contacted Motorola last November about this, and opened a "ticket", but so far four months have elapsed and aside from several phone calls there has been no real progress that I can tell.

Your report of an identical firewire breakage in the FIOS version of the latest Motorola 1-port DVRs now confirms that they really did do much more damage than they could have imagined. It's astonishing to me that this was not detected during QA testing of the entire set of new 1-port products.

You are not alone, in your frustration. And if Motorola simply chooses never to fix what they've obviously broken, we may all be SOL.

My solution: I have retained a DCH3416 for my primary HDTV equipment pod where I can still successfully archive perfectly from DVR to DVHS in my TWC/LA environment. I will never give this box back. Then, I have a DCX3400 at my second HDTV environment where I do not require DVHS archiving, but only want to benefit from "native" resolution and the double-sized hard drive.
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post #188 of 192 Old 03-15-2010, 03:38 PM
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[quote=DSperber;18306641]

My solution: I have retained a DCH3416 for my primary HDTV equipment pod where I can still successfully archive perfectly from DVR to DVHS in my TWC/LA environment. I will never give this box back.

Until they pry it from your cold dead hands!
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post #189 of 192 Old 03-24-2010, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

I don't understand why you're surprised about this latest 1-port version of Motorola boxes for FIOS has a broken firewire interface?

Though I'm not familiar with the FIOS version of these boxes, it sounds like the new 7xxx series kind of corresponds to the new DCX family versions for cable, which also dropped from the previous 2-port working firewire interface to a 1-port broken firewire interface.

And yes, just like you're saying you have to revert back to the previous 2-port 6xxx series of the FIOS/Motorola boxes to get working firewire interface, we have the same exact "solution" on the cable side... requiring that you stick with the earlier 2-port DCH or DCT models of the Motorola boxes with their 100% working firewire interfaces.

There is a very long sub-discussion about the broken firewire interface on the 1-port DCX product in the thread devoted to that unit, describing symptoms EXACTLY AS YOU HAVE DESCRIBED FOR YOUR 7100 FIOS-VERSION OF THIS NEW 1-PORT MOTOROLA BOX. EXACT SAME SYMPTOMS... word for word, when trying to record from DVR to DVHS (or PC, for that matter).

It is completely obvious now that Motorola has totally broken firewire support (probably not intentionally, but definitely and absolutely) as an unintended consequence of downsizing from 2-ports to 1-port. Something else that should have probably been done in firmware, to support the 1-port instead of 2-ports, was either not done or was done incorrectly.

A complaint to the FCC is probably not the most effective way to get this resolved, though perhaps it might actually cause some action and pressure to be placed on Motorola (who did the breaking, after all) from the intermediary cable company or Verizon. I first contacted Motorola last November about this, and opened a "ticket", but so far four months have elapsed and aside from several phone calls there has been no real progress that I can tell.

Your report of an identical firewire breakage in the FIOS version of the latest Motorola 1-port DVRs now confirms that they really did do much more damage than they could have imagined. It's astonishing to me that this was not detected during QA testing of the entire set of new 1-port products.

You are not alone, in your frustration. And if Motorola simply chooses never to fix what they've obviously broken, we may all be SOL.

My solution: I have retained a DCH3416 for my primary HDTV equipment pod where I can still successfully archive perfectly from DVR to DVHS in my TWC/LA environment. I will never give this box back. Then, I have a DCX3400 at my second HDTV environment where I do not require DVHS archiving, but only want to benefit from "native" resolution and the double-sized hard drive.

Update
I contacted Verizon regarding the Motorola 7100 IEEE-1394 interface issue. I was able to get them to send me another HD box. I requested the Motorola 6200 series but was told there is no guarantee that I would get a 6200 series and might get a 7100 instead (The 6XXX series are now all out of production and were replaced with the 7XXX series).

When UPS came this week I was happy to see that I had the 6200 series with the two working IEEE-1394 interfaces instead of a 7100 series box. Before I disconnected the 7100 series box I verified again that as soon as I hit record about every few seconds audio and video would drop out from digital artifacts (seems to have gotten worse, about every 2 seconds video and audio drops out). When I connected the 6200 series box I used the exact same blank tape and hit record and was able to make a perfect 1080I recordings from the 6200 series box with no problems at all. I now have all 6XXX series boxes for all locations and plan on never trading them in for newer boxes. Of course one day in a few years or several years Verizon will most likely switch to MPEG-4 and new boxes will be required to receive the latest programming.

Either the one port firewire 7XXX series Motorola boxes are broken or they were purposely made so one cannot record onto a D-VHS machine anymore

Theory number 1: The fact is that the 7100 series boxes have less input and output jacks and are a cheaper design when compared to the 6200 series. The 7100 series only has one IEEE-1394 interface instead of two. One theory is that Motorola may have accidently made these boxes so that the hardware and/or software will not allow recording onto a device like a D-VHS. This is some kind of accidental software or hardware glitch in theory.

Theory number 2: It is a fact that there is already a 5C copy protection system in place with D-VHS systems and program providers. If someone tries to record a ATSC program or IEEE-1394 signal that is marked as copy never the D-VHS machine will not allow the program to be copied and a message will pop up on the screen that says "REC PROHIBITED" or some other type of message. This 5C copy protection system is in place so that content providers can copy protect programs that they do not want to be copied. Perhaps the 7XXX series boxes are working as designed and they decided to add a new copy protection system so no channels at all can be recorded including 480I channels like the local news. Technically if one plugs a 7100 series box into a very old HDTV that has a IEEE-1394 interface the video and audio will work perfectly. Also if one connects the 7100 series boxes up directly to a D-VHS machine then as long as one does not hit the record button the audio and video over firewire works perfectly fine with a D-VHS. It's just when that record button is pushed on a D-VHS that the 7100 series data stream causes the recording to have all kinds of video and audio artifacts every 2 seconds that makes the recording useless. One cannot even record the local news in 480I or 1080I quality onto D-VHS. Maybe Motorola made the 7100 series boxes to purposely insert digital audio and video artifacts into the firewire data stream when a device tries to record the signal. If one can only watch TV programs from the firewire ports and not record from the firewire ports then this would create more demand for some consumers to rent a HD DVR or additional HD DVR's.
I am starting to believe in theory number two. I think the new Digital Cable boxes in the future will not allow consumers to record onto a D-VHS or future BLU-RAY recorder when connected to a IEEE-1394 interface.


The latest software update from Verizon was a software downgrade. We rent 1 HD DVR from Verizon and 3 HD boxes from Verizon. It use to be that one could watch up to 3 HD programs at once streaming from the Verizon HD DVR to other rooms. Then it was reduced to up to two HD programs could be watched from the HD DVR to other locations in the house. The latest Verizon update limits only one HD program at a time to be viewed remotely too another room. What good is a whole house family HD DVR if one can only watch one HD program at a time. Now one needs to rent a HD DVR for every room again. Plus the Verizon HD DVR only holds 20 hours of HD programs for the whole house.
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post #190 of 192 Old 04-23-2010, 02:53 AM
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Update on this whole topic.

Although I am a TWC/LA customer, using Motorola's latest DCX3400 (cousin to their 7100 model for FIOS), I and many other AVS Forum members have reported experiencing the exact same firewire-recording failures as you've so accurately described on the 7100 for FIOS. I mentioned this in my earlier reply.

However I have gotten the ear (and attention) of the Director of Video Platforms at TWC/LA, and he's accepted my offer to come to his office with my JVC 40K and DT100 VCRs to demonstrate the "firewire failure" to him and and an engineer who works for him, using a DCX3400 in his office. I'm going there this Monday, having requested that they also have available an older DCH3416 and/or DCT6416 so that I can demonstrate "firewire success" using these older model DVRs.

In turn, they have an onsite visit from Motorola engineers planned for later in the week for other reasons, but this whole topic of the firewire issue will be brought up. Hopefully they will be able to repeat my demonstration of the firewire anomalies to Motorola that I will hopefully be able to demonstrate to TWC on Monday.

Anyway, as part of the preparation for Monday's visit to TWC, I was sent some screenshots that Motorola sent to TWC ostensibly "proving" that firewire recording from DCX3400 to DVHS (a 40K, in Motorola's lab) actually WORKS!

Well, it turns out that their screenshots of "success" were just for 480i SD recording (at STD speed of 14.1Mbps). They did not also provide "HD proof" with screenshots of a similarly successful 720p/1080i HD experiment (at HS speed of 28.2Mbps). Now I don't know if Motorola actually has performed those HS experiments as well and just neglected to send them, or if they actually have never performed HD tests but simply thought their SD "success" proved that nothing was broken.

Anyway, I've asked TWC to request Motorola to perform a similar experiment as before but this time using HD 720p/1080i content... and then report as to success or failure.

And here, in this forum (as well as over on the dedicated DCX3400 thread where this issue has been discussed for many months), I've asked anybody (such as yourself) who's previously observed problems recording via firewire from either the DCX3400 for TWC/Comcast or the 7100 for FIOS, to try and replicate the Motorola results... of SUCCESS recording SD 480i content via firewire. You will either also have success, or you will have failure... and I'd like to know which it is.

Of course if you no longer have a 7100 (i.e. you've returned it for an older 6200 so that you can have your firewire recording back) then you can't really help. But hopefully if there are other FIOS 7100 users out there who can contribute to this 480i firewire experiment, I'd appreciate it.

If your 480i recording results are a success, but your 720p/1080i results are still failure, that's very significant information that Motorola needs to know about.

But if your 480i recording results are still a failure, as are your 720p/1080i results, then Motorola needs to review their experimental lab testbed environment to explain why their results lab differ from our results "in the wild" for the identical experiment.

Of course if Motorola's 720p/1080i test fails, and your 480i test works, then that's the ultimate "good news" for all of us. They've finally been shown that there is a failure, and also with a "giant clue" that it's somehow SD vs. HD bitrate related on the DCX3400/7100 models, and probably not related to the 2-port vs. 1-port dropdown.

Please... try the 480i firewire recording experiment on DCX3400 and 7100 FIOS boxes, and report results here.

Thanks.
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post #191 of 192 Old 05-24-2010, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

Please... try the 480i firewire recording experiment on DCX3400 and 7100 FIOS boxes, and report results here.

Thanks.

I have the QIP7100 w/FIOS. I tried recording at 480i and 1080i and I would get "glitching" roughly every 10 seconds. It's very annoying!
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post #192 of 192 Old 05-28-2010, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

Of course if Motorola's 720p/1080i test fails, and your 480i test works, then that's the ultimate "good news" for all of us. They've finally been shown that there is a failure, and also with a "giant clue" that it's somehow SD vs. HD bitrate related on the DCX3400/7100 models, and probably not related to the 2-port vs. 1-port dropdown.

Please... try the 480i firewire recording experiment on DCX3400 and 7100 FIOS boxes, and report results here.

Thanks.

Thanks to discovering this thread so I didn't have to move my D-VHS decks to yet another HD STB or run more of the D_VHS head cleaning cycles on a second D-VHS

Reporting back that on my latest installation (Motorola 7100) it glitches whether recording 480i off the STB or 1080i off the multiroom DVR into this box. So it does not appear bit rate related on the Verizon equipment.

I was going to try connecting directly to the DVR (I have tried both remote HD boxes) but from above discussion it is apparent that would also be a waste of time.

I suppose I should also call Verizon and at least complain.

In the meantime I will reconnect my JVC 40K to my SONY KD 955 XS with cable card; at least I will once again be able to record premium content but looks like I will have to be physically present when it starts.

Now my plan to archive the Pacific looks flawed as I can't get the series off the DVR and it is taking up a lot of room.

Maybe I will just have to watch it.

does the multi room dvr feature work with any other STBs besides the 7100?

______________

not that I expect anything will come of it but I did contact Verizon and filed a complaint with the FCC
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