New "Value" product lineup info. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 29 Old 09-01-2019, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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New "Value" product lineup info.

Hi all,

I have briefly discussed a new product lineup I'm dubbing the "value" line. Not the most imaginative designation but it gets the point across.

The first four products will be partially/fully assembled in china.

The Value lineup will eventually include a wide range of both speakers and subwoofers.

The first two offerings. (working model designations)

* Value12

Smaller sealed subwoofer. 14 inch cube. 450 watt amplifier, DSP enabled. Heavy duty ferrite magnet 12" woofer. Expected pre-order pricing of $599 each and $1099 for duals. Frequency response shaping optimized to leverage typical room gain for true 10-14hz extension in all but the largest of room environments.

* Value18

Larger vented subwoofer. Similar in size, style, and overall performance to our best selling V1811. High performance/high sensitivity 18" NEO woofer with shorting rings for inductance control, 600 watt amplifier, DSP enabled. Expected pre order pricing of $999 each or $1849 for duals.

* Two finish options for each. Black Oak and Black Matte.
* Traditional style grills.
* Both products are front firing.
* Each product will be inspected, measured, and put thru a variety of performance checks here in Ohio before re-boxing and shipping to ensure our renown quality control standards are maintained.

Final production samples should be mid September. I will share plenty of photos of both.

Shipping begins end of NOV/early DEC.

Details on products #3 and #4 soon to follow. 15 inch and 21 inch stuff.

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post #2 of 29 Old 09-24-2019, 10:11 PM
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Will the amps be ICE or something else?
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post #3 of 29 Old 09-25-2019, 04:35 PM
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Will the amps be ICE or something else?
I doubt it.
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post #4 of 29 Old 09-28-2019, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Will the amps be ICE or something else?
The amplification module itself is Pascal brand.

Perhaps not as renown as ICE in the industry but Pascal is very good..

The amplifier feature board is fully DSP enabled/controlled.

As a system I'm confident this lineup will reset the bar for cost/performance ratios at each of their respective price points.

I should have the final samples here this upcoming week for sign off.

I will share pictures as time allows.

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post #5 of 29 Old 10-02-2019, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Couple of quick photos of the final Value12 (working title) samples.

These really look nice in my biased opinion---especially the "matte black"(on the right without grill)

450w amp WITH DSP, stout 12 inch woofer, 599/1099(single and duals).


Shop around, these will set the bar in the marketplace...end of discussion..

Tom V.
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post #6 of 29 Old 10-02-2019, 08:50 PM
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Looks really good. Build quality implies it'll be quite capable...

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post #7 of 29 Old 10-03-2019, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
450w amp WITH DSP...
DSP is nice, but in particular I like the amps are not 100 watts like some less subs (albeit at lesser prices)
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post #8 of 29 Old 10-04-2019, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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DSP is nice, but in particular I like the amps are not 100 watts like some less subs (albeit at lesser prices)
In this era, there's no excuse not to incorporate a DSP frontend on the amplifier unless you're cutting costs. It's really mandatory to extract maximum performance and longevity from the system. It can be expensive though. Depending on the sophistication of the circuit, the DSP micro-processing implementation, and the overall build quality...you often double the "cost/watt" ratios.

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post #9 of 29 Old 10-04-2019, 05:16 PM
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Hi Tom, is it too early to drop some hints about what we can expect from the Value 15? Just looking for basic info like ported or sealed, amp power, rough size, rough price..
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post #10 of 29 Old 10-11-2019, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ratbuddy View Post
Hi Tom, is it too early to drop some hints about what we can expect from the Value 15? Just looking for basic info like ported or sealed, amp power, rough size, rough price..
Sorry, missed this earlier.

Nothing set at the moment. I have 3 different ideas, pretty varied. I may wait to see how the first two shake out demand wise.

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post #11 of 29 Old 10-21-2019, 06:28 AM
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Since the value 12 will be very similar in size to the SB2000, how do you see it comparing performance wise ?
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post #12 of 29 Old 10-31-2019, 11:08 AM
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What's the price target for these?
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post #13 of 29 Old 11-03-2019, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Docethic View Post
Since the value 12 will be very similar in size to the SB2000, how do you see it comparing performance wise ?
I wouldnt expect our 12" to have any significant advantage overall. Edge here, edge there(to both)...probably be considered a very close match in any listening test. The svs is larger and more expensive but it's a high quality product as well.

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post #14 of 29 Old 11-03-2019, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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What's the price target for these?
Right now, 549-599.

I'm still not 100% clear on what tariffs may or may not impact things. So we'll have to play that as it comes.

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post #15 of 29 Old 12-12-2019, 01:36 PM
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Any updates on these?
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Right now, 549-599.

I'm still not 100% clear on what tariffs may or may not impact things. So we'll have to play that as it comes.

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Any updates on these?
I would love an Update... I need a small sub for my office.
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post #17 of 29 Old 02-01-2020, 01:37 PM
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*bump*
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post #18 of 29 Old 02-16-2020, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the delay guys.

Best guess is shipping in 14-16 weeks. Pre orders in 8-10 weeks.

We've had some hurdles with the amp and optimizing the DSP. The latest was DC in the ADC and using discrete values. We changed that to linear interpolation tables and it seems fine now(with a dc block).

Anyway, I think i'm about 99% done now on the DSP side. Here is the final FR for the sealed 12 inch model. call it +/- 0.7dB from 30-150hz. I can probably pull down the inconsequential bump around 80hz a dB to make it look even better.

The other one is the china vented 18. I'm not moving forward with that one at the moment but I wanted to get the DSP ready just in case we want to "flip the switch" on it later.

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post #19 of 29 Old 02-20-2020, 10:22 PM
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Have you finalized the dimensions of the cabinet and frequency response?
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post #20 of 29 Old 02-28-2020, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you finalized the dimensions of the cabinet and frequency response?
Hi, sorry for the delay. I need to make it a point to check this forum daily or at the least, every other day.

The FR is pretty much done now. I'll get the graph up tonight before I leave for the evening.

Cabinet is a 14 inch cube. Grill adds about 1/2 inch iirc.

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post #21 of 29 Old 02-28-2020, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

sealed 12 measurements. Please pat attention to the Y axis.

3 = unsmoothed, me fiddling, any bumps <25hz are just the noise floor of the warehouse(gym next door was cranking things a bit)

5 = best curve of the night. Looks like +/- 0.4(?) from 35hz to 150hz. I start shaping the rolloff <30hz.

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post #22 of 29 Old 02-28-2020, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the FR unsmoothed using the standard Y axis. If I smooth it to even 1/12th smoothing it looks more like a sim than a real measurement..

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post #23 of 29 Old 02-28-2020, 09:08 PM
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Here is the FR unsmoothed using the standard Y axis. If I smooth it to even 1/12th smoothing it looks more like a sim than a real measurement..



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How does it compare to the XS15? Just out of curiosity...


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post #24 of 29 Old 02-28-2020, 09:19 PM
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Thanks for the information. I look forward to future updates.
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post #25 of 29 Old 03-01-2020, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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How does it compare to the XS15? Just out of curiosity...


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Once I'm 100% done with the DSP I expect it to be shaped similar to the S1512/s1510/s1500. The XS15se was close but it did have a slightly different shape <30hz.

In terms of output, the little 12 will be roughly 1/2 of the xs15se.

It's definitely not an output monster..

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post #26 of 29 Old 03-02-2020, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Once I'm 100% done with the DSP I expect it to be shaped similar to the S1512/s1510/s1500. The XS15se was close but it did have a slightly different shape <30hz.



In terms of output, the little 12 will be roughly 1/2 of the xs15se.



It's definitely not an output monster..



Tom V.

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Off topic; does the ice amp upgrade on the xs15se give it a shape like the 1500 series? Also how much more output?


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post #27 of 29 Old 03-02-2020, 10:21 AM
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Off topic; does the ice amp upgrade on the xs15se give it a shape like the 1500 series? Also how much more output?


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I totally forgot about the ICE amp upgrade! I think I’ll do that with my XS30SE’s when I get the speakers.

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post #28 of 29 Old 05-20-2020, 10:15 PM
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Any further updates on the new 12” sub? Is there a new eta, FR, pricing, etc?
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post #29 of 29 Old 06-01-2020, 08:43 AM
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Can’t wait to see what Chinese cabinet subs will be available!

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