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post #1 of 62 Old 08-25-2014, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE - General Discussion

Now that there are "a few" Marvel films that have been produced over the years and considering they are based on a concept film universe with ties to each other, I thought it was time to have a thread dedicated to their overall discussion. The idea of the thread is to simply enable an open discussion to flow naturally about the Marvel Cinematic Universe as conversation dictates without concern of getting "off topic" relative to a specific Marvel film.

Current Marvel Films

1998
Blade New Line Cinema



2000
X-Men 20th Century Fox



2002
Blade II New Line Cinema
Spider-Man Columbia Pictures



2003
Daredevil 20th Century Fox
X2 20th Century Fox
Hulk Universal Pictures



2004
The Punisher Artisan Entertainment
Spider-Man 2 Columbia Pictures
Blade: Trinity New Line Cinema



2005
Elektra 20th Century Fox
Man-Thing Lionsgate / Artisan Ent.
Fantastic Four 20th Century Fox



2006
X-Men: The Last Stand 20th Century Fox



2007
Ghost Rider Columbia Pictures
Spider-Man 3 Columbia Pictures
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer 20th Century Fox


2008
Iron Man Marvel Studios
The Incredible Hulk Marvel Studios
Punisher: War Zone Lionsgate Entertainment



2009
X-Men Origins: Wolverine 20th Century Fox
Iron Man 2 Marvel Studios



2010
Thor Marvel Studios
X-Men: First Class 20th Century Fox



2011
Captain America: The First Avenger Marvel Studios
Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance Columbia Pictures
Marvel's The Avengers Marvel Studios
The Amazing Spider-Man Columbia Pictures



2012
Iron Man 3 Marvel Studios
The Wolverine 20th Century Fox
Thor: The Dark World Marvel Studios



2013
Captain America: The Winter Soldier Marvel Studios
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Columbia Pictures
X-Men: Days of Future Past 20th Century Fox



2014
Guardians of the Galaxy Marvel Studios


Marvel Film Projects In Production or Announced


2015
Avengers: Age of Ultron Marvel Studios
The Fantastic Four 20th Century Fox
Ant-Man Marvel Studios 2016
Third Captain America film Marvel Studios
X-Men: Apocalypse 20th Century Fox
Doctor Strange Marvel Studios
The Sinister Six Columbia Pictures



2017
Untitled The Wolverine sequel 20th Century Fox
Untitled The Fantastic Four sequel
Guardians of the Galaxy 2 Marvel Studios



2018
Third The Amazing Spider-Man film Columbia Pictures




Marvel Short Films

2011
The Consultant Thor Blu-ray release
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Thor's Hammer
Captain America: The First Avenger Blu-ray release



2012
Item 47 Marvel's The Avengers Blu-ray release



2013
Agent Carter Iron Man 3 Blu-ray release and digital download



2014
All Hail the King Thor: The Dark World Blu-ray release and digital download

Marvel's Agent's of SHIELD (and upcoming Agent Carter) should be considered for discussion as well.

Lastly, given the range of potential topics and the possible need to tie in certain events or dialogue into current or past features, it is my opinion that there should be no need for the concern of spoiler tags. This way discussion can flow more freely around a given topic. I hope you guys find this thread useful.
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post #2 of 62 Old 08-25-2014, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll kick off the discussion by making note that one of the reasons I greatly enjoy watching some of these movies is the staging and cinematography that seems to pull directly from a comicbook panel. In Iron Man, the scenes when he walks away as the tank blows up as well as the "He's all yours" scene are a couple to speak of. There is also the scene in Iron Man 2 when Rhodey fly's away and Iron Man is sitting there watching. Captain America has a few as well. Also, it seems that the later movies have much less of this type of cinematography causing the movies to take on more of a "movie" feel as opposed to a comicbook feel.

Has anyone else noticed this?

And as a side note, oddly that it's in reference to Batman Begins (DC Comics), the scene where he's perched atop a building and the camera is panning around him as Batman overlooks Gotham City is another strong "comicbook panel" scene. Just wanted to mention it.
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post #3 of 62 Old 08-25-2014, 06:29 PM
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I only don't like how nearly everything seems to revolve around the Avengers right now. I'm guessing if/when film rights for Spiderman & X-Men revert back to Marvel Studios, it will start to become a true universe. However (outside of Batman), they've got to be making DC Comics green with envy.

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post #4 of 62 Old 08-25-2014, 06:37 PM
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I don't mean to be pedantic, but Marvel Cinematic Universe is a term of art being used by Marvel themselves to describe the inter-linked films launched by Marvel Studios starting with Iron Man in 2008. Pre-2008 titles mentioned above, while (obviously) drawn from Marvel comic books are not part of the official MCU - nor are the Spider-Man films from Sony or the X-Men films from Fox.

Having gotten my nit-picking out of the way, a general comment: I *loved* Guardians of the Galaxy, but I'm fascinated at how different it was in tone from the other MCU movies. Even more of a comedy. Cosmic Marvel has always been a little, well, strange, and Guardians really showed that. It does make me sad that we won't get to see Edgar Wright's Ant-Man, which I gather was torpedoed due to it being wrong in tone for the overall MCU - Guardians showed that it can be OK to be coloring outside of the lines.
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post #5 of 62 Old 08-25-2014, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
I don't mean to be pedantic, but Marvel Cinematic Universe is a term of art being used by Marvel themselves to describe the inter-linked films launched by Marvel Studios starting with Iron Man in 2008. Pre-2008 titles mentioned above, while (obviously) drawn from Marvel comic books are not part of the official MCU - nor are the Spider-Man films from Sony or the X-Men films from Fox.
Hey dschulz....I don't regard it as nitpicking. What you speak of is factual and I am well aware that technically the MCU starts with Iron Man. It just seemed appropriate to include those prior to 2008 (there are actually a few others even before that), to have a sense of a complete list. I figured the vast majority would know the interlinking of story concepts starts with Iron Man.

Regarding everything being centered around The Avengers, it does make a certain amount of sense to me to have the big tie in's lead up to one point (The Avengers); however, in true comicbook fashion, it also would have been interesting to just have things linked to some of the other movies in general. Even to the point of characters having that one scene surprise guest appearance in another character movie, similar to that of Black Widow in Cap2 (although that wasn't just one scene). What I absolutely don't want is continuous character crossover, meaning for the most part I want each characters movie to stand on its own with that character. That would get boring.
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post #6 of 62 Old 08-25-2014, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post
Hey dschulz....I don't regard it as nitpicking. What you speak of is factual and I am well aware that technically the MCU starts with Iron Man. It just seemed appropriate to include those prior to 2008 (there are actually a few others even before that), to have a sense of a complete list. I figured the vast majority would know the interlinking of story concepts starts with Iron Man.

Regarding everything being centered around The Avengers, it does make a certain amount of sense to me to have the big tie in's lead up to one point (The Avengers); however, in true comicbook fashion, it also would have been interesting to just have things linked to some of the other movies in general. Even to the point of characters having that one scene surprise guest appearance in another character movie, similar to that of Black Widow in Cap2 (although that wasn't just one scene). What I absolutely don't want is continuous character crossover, meaning for the most part I want each characters movie to stand on its own with that character. That would get boring.
I think its a safe bet that notwithstanding the first few non Disney distributions like the first Iron Man, etc, the future of the MCU will be Marvel + Disney. Given Disney's strategy of planning story archs and arch crossovers from to film to film, planned years in advance, but each with unique plots and characters, there isnt much to worry about. This is essentially the treatment the SW franchise is getting.

Anyhow, I am somewhat grateful for the char licensing schisms bt disney fox and sony because we dont have quite the char bleed/mess the comics ended up to be, not that theres anything wrong w that in a comic franchise...
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post #7 of 62 Old 08-26-2014, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post
Hey dschulz....I don't regard it as nitpicking. What you speak of is factual and I am well aware that technically the MCU starts with Iron Man. It just seemed appropriate to include those prior to 2008 (there are actually a few others even before that), to have a sense of a complete list. I figured the vast majority would know the interlinking of story concepts starts with Iron Man.

Regarding everything being centered around The Avengers, it does make a certain amount of sense to me to have the big tie in's lead up to one point (The Avengers); however, in true comicbook fashion, it also would have been interesting to just have things linked to some of the other movies in general. Even to the point of characters having that one scene surprise guest appearance in another character movie, similar to that of Black Widow in Cap2 (although that wasn't just one scene). What I absolutely don't want is continuous character crossover, meaning for the most part I want each characters movie to stand on its own with that character. That would get boring.
The "Marvel Cinematic Universe" is only comprised of Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, The Incredible Hulk, The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, and the upcoming Ant-Man, plus Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter on TV. Maybe there will be more in the future. Despite being based on Marvel comics, the film rights to the other properties (X-Men, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, etc.) are held by different studios and are not part of the MCU.

You will not see Spider-Man or X-Men interlink with The Avengers, or with each other. Spider-Man is held by Sony and X-Men by Fox. Each of these studios wants to hold on tight to their film rights, and none of them wants to play in the same sandbox as the others.

You may see X-Men cross over with Fantastic Four, because both of those franchises are with Fox, but they won't be part of the MCU.

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post #8 of 62 Old 08-26-2014, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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So does anyone seriously thing there is really going to be a Howard the Duck movie?
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post #9 of 62 Old 08-26-2014, 02:13 PM
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Straight to video maybe with full 'bad movie hipster' support.

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post #10 of 62 Old 08-26-2014, 02:16 PM
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So does anyone seriously thing there is really going to be a Howard the Duck movie?
As a standalone feature? No, but he may show up as a supporting character in a future Guardians or Avengers movie.

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post #11 of 62 Old 08-26-2014, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post
Hey dschulz....I don't regard it as nitpicking. What you speak of is factual and I am well aware that technically the MCU starts with Iron Man. It just seemed appropriate to include those prior to 2008 (there are actually a few others even before that), to have a sense of a complete list. I figured the vast majority would know the interlinking of story concepts starts with Iron Man.
I understand the interlinking of the recent films, but since the MCU is comprised of almost solely The Avengers, it seems a small "universe" to myself. Anyway, doesn't this technically start with The Incredible Hulk's Tony Stark after-credit scene? Or am I misremembering?

They plotted the MCU well, if not a little fast, IMO. Meaning I for one, could've used some more Cap'n A before The Avengers release.

"I knew you'd say that"...*BLAM!*
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post #12 of 62 Old 08-26-2014, 02:35 PM
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Straight to video maybe with full 'bad movie hipster' support.

They should just support the original, I can't imagine it getting any worse. I did enjoy the cameo at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy though, gave me a good chuckle.
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post #13 of 62 Old 08-26-2014, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rezzy View Post
I understand the interlinking of the recent films, but since the MCU is comprised of almost solely The Avengers, it seems a small "universe" to myself. .
This is the reason I wish Marvel/Disney had the rights to all the properties even if it would probably be abused with too much crossing over. The fact that The Avengers and X-Men: Days of Future Past can use Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch, but one can't mention who their father is or their origin is a bit maddening to the child comic nerd in me. Plus this prevents a Marvel Civil War type story line. I do like the direction the new X-Men movies are taking and I am looking forward to Apocalypse since he is my all time favorite villain.

Last edited by trab37; 08-26-2014 at 03:38 PM.
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post #14 of 62 Old 08-26-2014, 03:28 PM
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Someone said here once, that some time ago Marvel sold some film rights to whoever was willing to purchase them. With the decline of comics, it seems they undervalued their IP. Bet they wish they hadn't done that now. Combined with Dizney, they should have more than enough cash-flow to buy them rights back!

I'd like to see some crossing over (Inhumans vs X-Men, etc). They could probably co-fund a Hulk vs Supes film now (at least that's my dream). IF that ever happened, it certainly wouldn't be before a Justice League project could be released.

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post #15 of 62 Old 08-26-2014, 06:19 PM
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Marvel's flicks trend means we will not see the great stories of the past instead just productions straight jacketed into the 'Universe' conformity. I have no idea why any director would work under such an environment and certainly the big name ones are highly unlikely.
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post #16 of 62 Old 08-26-2014, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I did read recently that they are working on an Inhumans movie concept, which I suspect will offer to a degree, a crossover into Agents of SHIELD. I say this based on the revelation of Coulson and Skye being injected with Kree blood. And to finish the thought, it's my belief that Captain Marvel will emerge as a result.
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post #17 of 62 Old 08-26-2014, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a link to an article discussing Bryan Singers treatment of X-Men: DOFP and its complexities relative to The Avengers more simplistic approach. I just thought it was an interesting read. Enjoy.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/26/6067173...st-powers-gifs
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post #18 of 62 Old 08-26-2014, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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And here's another article discussing Renner's Hawkeye possibly having a bigger role in Cap3. It seems to make sense per how many of the comics were scripted, even more so than Black Widow being in Cap2 (not that I'm complaining). And IMO it will take the pressure off, so to speak, of finding relevance for him in Avengers 2.

http://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/j...ica-3/#!bKU9Gi
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post #19 of 62 Old 08-27-2014, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post
Here is a link to an article discussing Bryan Singers treatment of X-Men: DOFP and its complexities relative to The Avengers more simplistic approach. I just thought it was an interesting read. Enjoy.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/26/6067173...st-powers-gifs
I liked how they described Brett Ratner as "the cinematic equivalent of a wood chipper". Not a lot of good things to say about that guy.
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post #20 of 62 Old 08-27-2014, 11:05 AM
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Someone said here once, that some time ago Marvel sold some film rights to whoever was willing to purchase them. With the decline of comics, it seems they undervalued their IP. Bet they wish they hadn't done that now.
The current comic movie renaissance began with X-Men and Spider-Man. At the time, Marvel was not in a position to produce movies on its own. The company had no choice but to sell the rights to major studios.

Previous attempts to adapt Marvel comics to movies ranged from dismal failures (The Punisher) to modestly profitable (Blade). X-Men and Spider-Man were the first true blockbuster hits for Marvel properties. If those hadn't been made by Fox and Sony respectively, the comic movie boom never would have happened, Marvel never would have been able to raise enough capital to create its own movie studio, and the MCU would just be a pipe dream.

So, as much as Marvel may wish that it could reclaim the rights to Spider-Man, X-Men, Fantastic Four, etc. back for itself now, I doubt anyone there regrets selling those rights in the first place. That decision saved the company at a time it was on the verge of folding, and directly led Marvel on the path to becoming the powerhouse that it is today.

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post #21 of 62 Old 08-27-2014, 11:20 AM
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The current comic movie renaissance began with X-Men and Spider-Man. At the time, Marvel was not in a position to produce movies on its own. The company had no choice but to sell the rights to major studios.

Previous attempts to adapt Marvel comics to movies ranged from dismal failures (The Punisher) to modestly profitable (Blade). X-Men and Spider-Man were the first true blockbuster hits for Marvel properties. If those hadn't been made by Fox and Sony respectively, the comic movie boom never would have happened, Marvel never would have been able to raise enough capital to create its own movie studio, and the MCU would just be a pipe dream.

So, as much as Marvel may wish that it could reclaim the rights to Spider-Man, X-Men, Fantastic Four, etc. back for itself now, I doubt anyone there regrets selling those rights in the first place. That decision saved the company at a time it was on the verge of folding, and directly led Marvel on the path to becoming the powerhouse that it is today.
Are you referring to Dolph Lundgren or Thomas Jane Punisher? Not that either were great, but one was better than the other. I enjoyed the first two Blade movies, could have done without Trinity; poor story and Snipes was too high to "act".
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post #22 of 62 Old 08-27-2014, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezzy View Post
Someone said here once, that some time ago Marvel sold some film rights to whoever was willing to purchase them. With the decline of comics, it seems they undervalued their IP. Bet they wish they hadn't done that now.
The current comic movie renaissance began with X-Men and Spider-Man. At the time, Marvel was not in a position to produce movies on its own. The company had no choice but to sell the rights to major studios.

Previous attempts to adapt Marvel comics to movies ranged from dismal failures (The Punisher) to modestly profitable (Blade). X-Men and Spider-Man were the first true blockbuster hits for Marvel properties. If those hadn't been made by Fox and Sony respectively, the comic movie boom never would have happened, Marvel never would have been able to raise enough capital to create its own movie studio, and the MCU would just be a pipe dream.

So, as much as Marvel may wish that it could reclaim the rights to Spider-Man, X-Men, Fantastic Four, etc. back for itself now, I doubt anyone there regrets selling those rights in the first place. That decision saved the company at a time it was on the verge of folding, and directly led Marvel on the path to becoming the powerhouse that it is today.
While I agree they probably don't regret selling the rights given the outcome I bet they do regret signing over exclusive rights. Under the circumstances I'd bet they could have retained the ability to "make their own movies" (even though unlikely at the time) provided no other licensing to any other studios. But I'm sure Marvel wasn't able to forsee what these movies would be able to become.
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post #23 of 62 Old 08-27-2014, 11:27 AM
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Are you referring to Dolph Lundgren or Thomas Jane Punisher? Not that either were great, but one was better than the other.
Both. The Lundgren version went straight to video, and the Thomas Jane version was a box office bomb.

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post #24 of 62 Old 08-27-2014, 11:32 AM
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With what the MCU films have grossed, I doubt anyone there is crying about it too much. Though, I'm sure there are some executives that see the dollar signs and wish for a time machine. As a fan it's kind of a bummer, but I would much rather have what we are getting than nothing at all. I like what Fox has done with the new timeline created in the X-Men films and how they basically retconned X3 from existence.
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post #25 of 62 Old 08-27-2014, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by trab37 View Post
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/26/6067173...st-powers-gifs

I liked how they described Brett Ratner as "the cinematic equivalent of a wood chipper". Not a lot of good things to say about that guy.
That article author obviously has no love for Ratner, and I certainly can't blame him for that. However, his facts and his timeline aren't quite correct. He implies that Ratner was solely responsible for everything wrong with the X-Men franchise until First Class course-corrected it, but Ratner had nothing to do with the dreadful X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Further, despite the fact that nobody actually liked either movie, both The Last Stand and Origins were big box office hits.

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post #26 of 62 Old 08-27-2014, 11:36 AM
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Both. The Lundgren version went straight to video, and the Thomas Jane version was a box office bomb.
Yeah, I remember watching the Lundgren version as a kid when it came out, pretty awesome as a 10 year old, pretty lame as a 34 year old. I'm not sure how they could make a successful one, it pretty much has to be rated R and that doesn't usually equate to success at the box office. Though I think a rated R Wolverine would do well.
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post #27 of 62 Old 08-27-2014, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
That article author obviously has no love for Ratner, and I certainly can't blame him for that. However, his facts and his timeline aren't quite correct. He implies that Ratner was solely responsible for everything wrong with the X-Men franchise until First Class course-corrected it, but Ratner had nothing to do with the dreadful X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Further, despite the fact that nobody actually liked either movie, both The Last Stand and Origins were big box office hits.
I think the success had more to do with fan anticipation(Origins) and the limited offerings at the time(Last Stand). I know I paid to see both and I know I left wishing I had my money back. Now both are pretty much erased from the timeline, but that bitter taste still lingers a bit.
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post #28 of 62 Old 08-27-2014, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by trab37 View Post
Yeah, I remember watching the Lundgren version as a kid when it came out, pretty awesome as a 10 year old, pretty lame as a 34 year old. I'm not sure how they could make a successful one, it pretty much has to be rated R and that doesn't usually equate to success at the box office. Though I think a rated R Wolverine would do well.
Punisher: War Zone was a hard R, and it bombed even worse than the Thomas Jane version. I think that The Punisher is just not a character that movie audiences find compelling.

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post #29 of 62 Old 08-27-2014, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Punisher: War Zone was a hard R, and it bombed even worse than the Thomas Jane version. I think that The Punisher is just not a character that movie audiences find compelling.
Yeah, it was pretty over the top and had some real cringe-worthy moments. The comic can be fun, but a character based on sheer violence can be hard to sell as a movie. Off topic from the MCU, but I always thought a modern Spawn movie would be good; it may be past the point of most people caring though.
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post #30 of 62 Old 08-27-2014, 12:11 PM
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The comic can be fun, but a character based on sheer violence can be hard to sell as a movie.
And yet there was this little flick in 1984 called The Terminator... I guess it depends on the story first, and the lead actor's charisma and quality in the acting department. Thomas Jane is not a leading man, neither is Lundgren imo. It worked with Arnold because he had few lines, and his amazing screen presence.
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