Star Wars: The Force Awakens Teasers/Trailers Discussion Thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 12:39 PM
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BTW, what "political stuff" are you referring to?
Did you sleep through the prequels, Oink?


We have to pass that bill!


So we know what's in it.
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post #152 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 12:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post
Freaking trade disputes, clandestine military coups, religious persecution, the list goes on.
Well, we were talking about the fall of an empire.
There usually are reasons for that...



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Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
Less of a duh. Has anyone asked why TIE fighters can fly in the atmosphere?
Can't say it was a question that even occured to me...

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About as aerodynamic as a crumpled up popcorn cup.
So does this thing:



Spoiler!




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post #153 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 12:57 PM
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Star Wars: The Force Awakens Teasers/Trailers Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post
Well...
So does this thing:



Spoiler!
That was a myth. The early prototypes were called the Wobbly Goblin, but the production models flew just fine. Did up to .85 mach. How do I know? I crewed a USCG Falcon out of Mobile AL to an airshow in TX, the third where they displayed an F117A after the public disclosure. My pilots and I got to talk to the USAF pilots of the thing. Learned some interesting tidbits about the plane, I did.

I had loads of fun at that particular airshow (pic on the right):


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post #154 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 01:06 PM
 
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Without massive data processing on-board it falls out of the sky like a rock, I heard.



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post #155 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 04:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
For fun (I love these guys' "cinema sins" videos):

http://youtu.be/UHL0SO1Gv3s
"black robe" and "evil Mark Hamill"? I guess the narrator didn't see Return of the Jedi.

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post #156 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 04:41 PM
 
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Has anyone asked why TIE fighters can fly in the atmosphere?
Anything can fly in movie atmosphere even if it doesn't have wings.



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post #157 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 04:41 PM
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"black robe" and "evil Mark Hamill"? I guess the narrator didn't see Return of the Jedi.

Having just watched that "sin" trailer in hopes of something funny I came away with nothing.
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post #158 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 10:27 PM
 
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Anything can fly in movie atmosphere even if it doesn't have wings.



No argument here...



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post #159 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post
Freaking trade disputes, clandestine military coups, religious persecution, the list goes on. Way too much time spent on that crap. I'd rather have seen more of the romance so we felt more for Anakin.

BTW Maul was one dimensional because he had like 37 seconds of screen time not counting falling into the pit.

Not exactly the same but similar to what killed the Matrix sequels.
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post #160 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
http://youtu.be/erLk59H86ww

Earlier today, I misunderstood a new thread started by Morhpeo, and unintentionally hijacked his thread. But I thought a new thread devoted to discussions about this and future teasers and trailers for the film is a good idea.

Anything is up for discussion; story theories implied and/or inferred, impressions of tone/spirit, tech aspects such as cinematography (surprise!), sound, visual effects, etc..

Here is my opening salvo covering all that plus my analysis of the Falcon fighter maneuvers, and some crew inside info. You guys take it from here.

Love the voice talent for the voice-over. Clearly this pays homage to the classic cinematographic styles of episodes 4-6, but adds some modern touches such as the chaotic documentary style in the storm trooper assault landing. Love the handheld camera, flashing fluorescents, smoke, and wind.

Nice introductory hero shot of the female lead. Not sure the intro shot of the male lead is so flattering.

Awesome shot of the low-level ingress across the lake by X-wings! That looks like a filmed aerial background plate with the X-wings added.

I love that there was not a JJ Abrams blue-streak anamorphic lens flare to be seen.

Love the dark, cold, snow shot in the forest. The light sabre shaft has a more tangible dangerous appearance. That shot looks like it is done with Steadicam in low mode with the operator coming down steps at first, then following the actor. A-camera operator is South African Colin Anderson who follows Abrams from the Star Trek movies. Colin came to the U.S. in the mid-90s to make his way with the mentorship of fellow South African Steadicam operator, Chris Haarhoff. Both terrific guys! Damn, what an opportunity to do this gig!

I put on my fighter pilot cap (A-7, A-10, F-16) to comment on the Falcon shot. This is a remarkably realistic shot! Unlike the P-51s in Red Tails that flew ridiculously unrealistically, this is really good. The Falcon is doing a loaded roll to get the nose down quickly, and even pulls some higher Gs after about 90 degrees of roll, evident by the "G-conning/cottonballing"; an extremely realistic touch! It continues the roll to level just above the deck with quite a bit of G to stop the downward vector.

This is realistic enough, but the added complexity is the chase camera "platform" POV. It's not POV from the Falcon. It's an imaginary chasing camera that performs the same maneuvers as the Falcon to keep up with it. Both must look very realistic, or it blows the shot for both. It rolls and pulls down with the Falcon, but in an interesting touch, rolls the opposite direction to level off, and even overtakes the Falcon a bit alarmingly close at the end as the TIE fighter pass in the merge. I've been there and done about the same things countless times in the late 70s and the 80s and 90s in the stuff I flew. They clearly have very good aviation consultants on this.

Tactically, it's a reasonable maneuver to give the TIE fighters a very difficult/low PK shot with the high aspect (beak to beak) merge. Maneuvering to ensure a maximum aspect merge is a superb defensive tactic if they are the only bandits in the area. No two reasonably matched aircraft can pass beak to beak and either party be able to make the 180 degree turn and chase down the other. It's a sure separation strategy to escape when low on fuel or out of weapons ("Winchester"). But these two spacecraft are not equally matched. I will pay good money to see how this engagement continues.


Overall, promising, but only time will tell if we have a winner.
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post #161 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 10:31 PM
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Not exactly the same but similar to what killed the Matrix sequels.
Filled with crap that didn't have anything that made the first movies great?

I don't give a s**t about Zion or whatever A&E series soap opera crap is filled with it.

I don't give a s**t about the Senate or trade embargo or passing a damn bill.

We wanted more slo-mo bullet dodging with blaring Marilyn Manson and Rage Against the Machine.

We wanted more lightsabers, landspeeders and Force powers.

No spazzy coked up Yoda either.
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post #162 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post
Without massive data processing on-board it falls out of the sky like a rock, I heard.

Most of the high performance stuff since around the early nineties does the same. Violently spinning rocks before the obligatory fiery cartwheel.

Fiery. Cartwheel.
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post #163 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 10:41 PM
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When it comes to modern jet fighters... they are aerodynamically unstable because of this they can be insanely maneuverable.
@Cam Man might know what I'm on about.
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post #164 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post
Without massive data processing on-board it falls out of the sky like a rock, I heard.

You beat me to it, Scott. Yes, same for the F-16 ... which is dynamically unstable. Although a better description would be that it would not be flyable with traditional controls.


Can you imagine the parasite drag on the Millennium Falcon with all its surface clutter?! :-)


I really like the new teaser/trailer. The photography looks to be of very high quality, reminding me of Hope and Empire, depending on the shot. I can't say I'm happy to see more racing around inside giant spacecraft. It was pretty ridiculous in Return, but I'll have to bear it. ;-)
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post #165 of 584 Old 04-18-2015, 10:46 PM
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Filled with crap that didn't have anything that made the first movies great?

I don't give a s**t about Zion or whatever A&E series soap opera crap is filled with it.

I don't give a s**t about the Senate or trade embargo or passing a damn bill.

We wanted more slo-mo bullet dodging with blaring Marilyn Manson and Rage Against the Machine.

We wanted more lightsabers, landspeeders and Force powers.

No spazzy coked up Yoda either.
Succinctly and perfectly stated. The prosecution rests, Your Honor.
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post #166 of 584 Old 04-19-2015, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Filled with crap that didn't have anything that made the first movies great?

I don't give a s**t about Zion or whatever A&E series soap opera crap is filled with it.

I don't give a s**t about the Senate or trade embargo or passing a damn bill.

We wanted more slo-mo bullet dodging with blaring Marilyn Manson and Rage Against the Machine.

We wanted more lightsabers, landspeeders and Force powers.

No spazzy coked up Yoda either.
Quote:
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Succinctly and perfectly stated. The prosecution rests, Your Honor.
Agreed 100%. Lucas got away from what the OT was all about and what made it great--it was the characters, not the setting. The focus was on Luke, Leia and Han, and the whole Empire thing was in the background. That got switched in the PT, showing how degraded Lucas had become as a writer and director. The focus should have been on Obi-Wan, Anakin and Amidala, with the whole fall of the Republic set in the background. The story should have centered on the Clone Wars from the beginning and gong right to a point shortly before where Ep IV begins (perhaps when Leia baords the Tantive IV for her mission to Alderan?). Oh yeah, what also ruined the PT was Lucas's infatuation with CGI after seeing Jurassic Park, as the PT seems like a tech demo for ILM.

The new teaser is so much awesome! People may complain that JJA is making a glorified fan film, but honestly, we NEED this to remove the foul taste of the PT.
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post #167 of 584 Old 04-19-2015, 08:55 AM
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Lucas did not kill anything, loads of people love the prequels. All opinions are personal not factual, may seem like a small thing. But since I have to read about how horrible Lucas is for the rest of my life, a small personal qualifier like, "personally I think" attached to all the moaning would be nice. Now I am off to watch some SW.

Edit.

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post #168 of 584 Old 04-19-2015, 09:46 AM
 
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Violently spinning rocks before the obligatory fiery cartwheel.

Fiery. Cartwheel.
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You beat me to it, Scott. Yes, same for the F-16 ... which is dynamically unstable. Although a better description would be that it would not be flyable with traditional controls.
Modern military planes are obscenely expensive.
Unfortunately, we have to have some.
There are people in the world who wish to do us harm (although I think our missile tech is probably a better deterrent).

Quote:
Can you imagine the parasite drag on the Millennium Falcon with all its surface clutter?! :-)
Thank goodness it has a tweaked hyperdrive system to overcome this.


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Succinctly and perfectly stated. The prosecution rests, Your Honor.
This.


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Originally Posted by IceAgeTom View Post
Agreed 100%. Lucas got away from what the OT was all about and what made it great--it was the characters, not the setting. The focus was on Luke, Leia and Han, and the whole Empire thing was in the background.
Being an old guy boar helps in this situation.
I can remember well the shock fans felt when it was revealed Darth was Luke's Daddy...
It's been called the Biggest Reveal in the history of movies and I wouldn't disagree.

Everyone was asking how is this even possible?
How can a father of the purest essence of goodness and justice in the galaxy (Luke) have become so evil?
How did this 180 happen and why did the Jedi ACTUALLY lose control of the empire?
People really DID want to know the answers...
And this is what GL tried to answer in the PT.
The degree of success he achieved is a matter of opinion.

Quote:
Oh yeah, what also ruined the PT was Lucas's infatuation with CGI after seeing Jurassic Park, as the PT seems like a tech demo for ILM.
This doesn't bother me too much...
He was the founder and owner of ILM, a company that changed the way films can look and sound.It stands to reason he would use it as part of his toolkit.


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post #169 of 584 Old 04-19-2015, 10:33 AM
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One word:
Spoiler!
Spoiler!
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post #170 of 584 Old 04-19-2015, 10:41 AM
 
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Spoiler!
I thought we've discussed this before.
Leave my man, Hudson, out of it...



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post #171 of 584 Old 04-19-2015, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post
Anything can fly in movie atmosphere even if it doesn't have wings.




Well some kind of magic anti-grav may enable those things to fly ... or what was it landspeeders were supposed to have, "repulser tech?" I don't assume ships flying in the atmosphere to "fly" via some onboard repulser technology.

I've always presumed it was momentum, and tons and tons o' throost (that Scottish chicken in Chicken Run speaking) keeping it going.

Yes, the F117 and F16 have fly by wire sheot, lots of it. I'm not going to take the bait, comparing the aerodynamic qualities of a TIE fighter with an F16. I'm just not. Pfft.


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post #172 of 584 Old 04-19-2015, 06:06 PM
 
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I don't assume ships flying in the atmosphere to "fly" via some onboard repulser technology.
For movies, it's OK to "assume too much".
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post #173 of 584 Old 04-19-2015, 08:52 PM
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The latest trailer has gotten a fantastic amount of buzz, but I have to admit after watching it I felt . . . nothing.

Granted, we learned almost nothing about the story, and the scope is more grand than in the first trailer, so there's no fair way to judge the final product at this point. The only thing that I was left with after the first viewing was how fake the shot of the downed Star Destroyer looked. Nifty concept for an image, but it didn't look believable to me, more like a 2D matte painting. The rest of the shots were OK looking, although the hovering TIE fighters threw me for kind of a loop.

Still looking forward to the new movie, but not due to anything in this trailer.

Scott

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post #174 of 584 Old 04-19-2015, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
Quote:
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Only problem is everybody puts the blame 100% on Jar Jar whos really not that bad and onscreen for not that much time."
You may get a chuckle out of this, but there is a warning for the sensitive, the speaker does use the word a--hole twice, unfortunately:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1p98VuP69k#t=609
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post #175 of 584 Old 04-20-2015, 04:27 AM
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more like a 2D matte painting.
Practical effects for the win.
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post #176 of 584 Old 04-20-2015, 06:35 AM
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Anyone want to start taking bets whether Disney will release the eventual blu-ray in 3D for the North American market?
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post #177 of 584 Old 04-20-2015, 10:07 AM
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On the subject of the downed Star Destroyer, perhaps it's because they're in a desert. You can see the sand blowing around in the foreground, and the ship is set substantially in the background. Maybe that's adding to the matte look of the downed ship (the thick sand in the air). I'm guessing the budget was there to make it look like whatever they intended.

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post #178 of 584 Old 04-20-2015, 11:42 AM
 
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The only thing that I was left with after the first viewing was how fake the shot of the downed Star Destroyer looked. Nifty concept for an image, but it didn't look believable to me, more like a 2D matte painting.
I didn't think it looked so 2D despite being low rez trailer on computer screen.

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post #179 of 584 Old 04-20-2015, 11:58 AM
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The Star Destroyer looked great imo, as the rest of the trailer. At least we now see them sweating, wearing dirty clothes, in other words the opposite of the prequels which looked completely fake with lousy production design, unforgiveable for movies of that scope.

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post #180 of 584 Old 04-20-2015, 01:39 PM
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Tough to get covered in dirt and sweaty when you're filming in an air conditioned warehouse with green carpet and walls and working with cardboard cutouts and sticks with red tape.
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