Tomorrowland in Dolby Vision HDR and Atmos at El Capitan Theatre - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post
This is what i hope doesn't happen with movies and why i'm not too excited about HDR. I don't want a director making a shot around new technology. Whould they do it otherwise? No. Keep your focus on your original ideas.
I have no problem with filmmakers exploring the capabilities of a new technology. Sure, sometimes it can be gimmicky, especially with 3D, but I didn't find this to be the case with HDR in Tomorrowland. To address your question, "Would they do it otherwise?," perhaps they would have liked to do it, but they couldn't because of the limitations of the technology available to them. Now that they have greater dynamic range, they can compose shots that would have been impossible before, and this might actually serve to enhance the story, or as you say, their "original ideas." Moviemaking is storytelling, and a big part of that is the images on the screen. If a new technology like HDR allows a wider range of possibilities in those images, that's a good thing in my book. Of course, it takes some time for directors to become familiar with any new technology, and early attempts often look primitive compared with later efforts when directors have more experience with it. But in my view, Tomorrowland is an excellent first step into the world of HDR.
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post #32 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 12:19 PM
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So are the new IMAX Laser projectors HDR capable?
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post #33 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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So are the new IMAX Laser projectors HDR capable?
I have not gotten a definitive answer to this question yet. The Imax laser-illuminated projectors are certainly capable of HDR—Age of Ultron and Furious 7 were shown with a peak brightness of 22 foot-lamberts, and that was with the lasers at 30% output. But those movies were not graded for HDR, and I don't know what system would be used to prepare an HDR-graded movie to be shown in HDR in an Imax LIP theater. It probably wouldn't be Dolby Vision—that is proprietary to Christie projectors, and Imax uses Barco projectors—which leaves the Technicolor, Philips, and BBC HDR formats. I don't know if Imax has been working to implement one of these systems—or something else—in its LIPs, but I'm trying to find out. Stay tuned...
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post #34 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 01:40 PM
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Too many years of badly calibrated video and sound combined with humans and their disgusting, noisy ways drove me back to my cave. Maybe it is time peak my head in again. Your reviews on the latest in theater tech have tickled my curiosity and it also helps that I recently moved to Seattle which has what appears to be a really nice theater called the Cinerama.
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post #35 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 01:46 PM
 
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post #36 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 01:46 PM
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got to see this Movie... lets hope when it's released on Blu-Ray that it' will include Dolby Atmos.

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post #37 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 02:19 PM
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Nope, not a problem at all!
Let the naysayers know then!

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post #38 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 02:22 PM
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I'm going to a showing tonight at the Atlanta location. Will be the first time I've been to a theater (other than my own) in years.
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post #39 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 02:42 PM
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Question for you guys about HDR with consumer gear.


Does/will/should HDR in it's final iteration get passed through current AVR's, or will (presumably) the next generation of AVR's have specific features to support HDR?

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post #40 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Clearly, Geoff Morrison had a similar experience to my own...he must have been at the same screening I was, but I didn't see him there.
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post #41 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I hope you didn't burn out your retinas Scott!
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Nope, not a problem at all!
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Let the naysayers know then!
I tried to in the OP: "Also remarkable was the simultaneous detail in dark and bright portions of the picture, and bright objects—such as the sun directly behind Clooney in a couple of shots—looked entirely realistic without being blown out or too bright for comfort."

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post #42 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by StickyFingaz View Post
Scott, do you know if there are any theaters in Canada with Dolby Cinema?
Not that I know of, sadly. If you find one, please let me know so I can add it to my master list of worldwide theaters with laser-illuminated projection.
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post #43 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post
Scott, how did the video quality of the Tomorrowland preview that was shown at the TCL Chinese Theater compare to HDR if you can remember? Was it a big difference? Better, worse?
Hard to say; that was a couple of weeks ago now, with a vacation in between. It certainly looked great in the TCL Chinese Imax, but I'd need to do an immediate comparison to really discern any differences. I assume the preview at the Chinese was not graded for HDR, but I don't know that for sure.
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post #44 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Scott,
I posted in a DCI thread - I guess its best to post here...
Seating arrangement for Deerbrook AMC Houston - I will be watching on Monday..

Thanks for posting this here; those look like excellent seats, as long as it's stadium seating, which I presume it is. Enjoy!
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post #45 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 04:23 PM
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I tried to in the OP: "Also remarkable was the simultaneous detail in dark and bright portions of the picture, and bright objects—such as the sun directly behind Clooney in a couple of shots—looked entirely realistic without being blown out or too bright for comfort."

It was a good writeup and those attributes are exactly what we are looking for in UHD content with the extra bit depth providing better whiter than white detail.

You mention it wasn't too bright for comfort. Would it be wild for me to guess that you wouldn't want that shot with the sun and Clooney you describe to have the sun's luminance be displayed 100 times brighter than it was graded for in that shot? I'm going to hazard an even wilder guess that they wouldn't even bother to do so if they could...
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post #46 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 05:03 PM
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Thsnks for the report Scott. I'm very excited for HDR projection!! Going soon to check it out for myself at the AMC Barrywoods 24 in KC.

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post #47 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
(The AMC Burbank 16 was supposed to be ready for Tomorrowland, but there is some delay at that location.)
When is Burbank scheduled to be finished with the delay?

Will it still be in time to see Tomorrowland?
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post #48 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 06:16 PM
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To answer your question Scott, is HDR good enough to entice people to go to theaters again? the answer is NO.
While the quality of the image has improved, the quality (behavior) of the people attending is worse than ever.
I wonder where you go to movies...

In most Texas theaters I have been to, a vast majority of folks are respectful and I haven't seen any problems that would keep me from watching movies out.
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post #49 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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When is Burbank scheduled to be finished with the delay?

Will it still be in time to see Tomorrowland?
I don't know; I hope so, because that theater is way better than the El Cap in terms of seating. I heard a rumor that it would be ready by June 1, but I cannot confirm that. The best thing to do is call the theater periodically and ask if it's done.
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post #50 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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It was a good writeup and those attributes are exactly what we are looking for in UHD content with the extra bit depth providing better whiter than white detail.

You mention it wasn't too bright for comfort. Would it be wild for me to guess that you wouldn't want that shot with the sun and Clooney you describe to have the sun's luminance be displayed 100 times brighter than it was graded for in that shot? I'm going to hazard an even wilder guess that they wouldn't even bother to do so if they could...
Well, 100 times brighter would be pretty uncomfortable, so I seriously doubt anyone would do that even if they could. This is one thing many people seem to misunderstand about HDR—it's not meant to duplicate the brightness of the real world completely. There's no way that any display device can reproduce the actual brightness of the sun, which is damaging to the human visual system if you look directly at it. The goal of HDR is to reproduce as much of the instantaneous dynamic range of the human visual system as possible, which is about five orders of magnitude. (That range shifts up and down depending on the overall amount of ambient light, which is why I say "instantaneous dynamic range.") Current cinema technology can reproduce maybe two orders of magnitude, so seeing an image with five orders of magnitude of dynamic range is breathtaking, even if it's not the entire dynamic range of the real world.
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post #51 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 06:48 PM
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I wonder where you go to movies...

In most Texas theaters I have been to, a vast majority of folks are respectful and I haven't seen any problems that would keep me from watching movies out.
There's another thread which details why so many no longer go out to movies. I do support the idea of going on a Thursday afternoon 3 weeks after the movie has been out.
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post #52 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 07:43 PM
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I don't know; I hope so, because that theater is way better than the El Cap in terms of seating. I heard a rumor that it would be ready by June 1, but I cannot confirm that. The best thing to do is call the theater periodically and ask if it's done.
$28 per seat at the El Captain, uncomfortable seats, cold popcorn, crowded restaurants, bad parking and hollywood traffic make for a less than Arclight / AMC Prime experience.

BTW - when will you be at T.H.E. Show Newport, is there a GTG?
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post #53 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 08:01 PM
 
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Clearly, Geoff Morrison had a similar experience to my own...he must have been at the same screening I was, but I didn't see him there.
Did you have your glasses on Scott?
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post #54 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
$28 per seat at the El Captain, uncomfortable seats, cold popcorn, crowded restaurants, bad parking and hollywood traffic make for a less than Arclight / AMC Prime experience.

BTW - when will you be at T.H.E. Show Newport, is there a GTG?
I totally agree, the El Cap is far from a great place to see a movie for all the reasons you cite, except for the fact that it's the only Dolby Vision theater in the L.A. area for now. I can't wait for AMC Burbank 16 to finish its installation!

I'll be at THE Show on Saturday, and I'll post an item about a GTG early next week.
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post #55 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 09:39 PM
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This is what i hope doesn't happen with movies and why i'm not too excited about HDR. I don't want a director making a shot around new technology. Whould they do it otherwise? No. Keep your focus on your original ideas.
While I sort of get what you're saying, I think a distinction can be made between the utilization of technologies such as HDR (and yes even 3D) to convey a shot or perform visual storytelling vs. making a shot "around new technology", i.e. a shot that exists solely to demonstrate or call attention to that same technology. In this sense ANY film tech can be used as a gimmick. Is that sudden loud sound you hear behind your shoulder in the latest greatest horror flick a "gimmick", or "immersive sound"?

My take on HDR, HFR, variable FR, 3D, surround sound in all forms, color, b&w, etc. is that they are ALL simply tools for the artists (directors, DP's, cinematographers, editors and so forth) to paint the canvas of their films and stories with. We may not always like the colors they paint with, or a particular style, but that does not make any one of these technologies a wholesale gimmick unto itself.

What of the girl in the red dress in Spielberg's Schindler's List? Was the red dress in an otherwise black and white film a gimmick, a way to guide the user's attention, visual storytelling, or perhaps something deeper?

Perhaps this is all cliche and has been said before, but everytime I hear someone refer to a new(ish) technology as a gimmick, it makes me want to re-emphasize that any such tech CAN be used in a gimmicky way, but that doesn't mean the tech can't also be used in artistic and meaningful ways as well. And before condemning any particular tech to gimmick-status, we should think about what we mean when we say gimmick. Many many films are designed to manipulate viewers emotions and elicit responses in various ways, from subtle to 800lb gorilla. Better films imho let viewers choose how to feel about the story/visuals without beating them over the head with it. But it's all subjective and preference. Some may like the jumpscare of a villain leaping out from behind a door that turns out to be nothing but a cat, while others may prefer the creepy mishappen shadow under the crack of the door that is evidently something other than human.

So HDR is not a gimmick. Atmos is not a gimmick. 3D is NOT a gimmick. They are tools that may or may not be used in gimmicky ways in the hands of skilled or not-so-skilled directors and artists. And finally, even gimmicks can be entertaining in their own right in the eye of any one beholder. You know, that whole "What is art/entertainment?" question thingy... Ok my chest feels much lighter now lol.

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post #56 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 09:55 PM
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Scott, I've been wondering about eye-strain in regards to HDR. At home I sometimes find that me eyes don't like an overly bright image in a darkened room. Conversely my everyday HDR viewing of the natural world on bright sunny days doesn't seem to cause any undue discomfort.
Since there was no mention of it, I assume you experienced no eye fatigue or strain with the HDR viewing? That's been my only concern thus far. Otherwise very excited for this tech.
Edit: Disregard all the above. I think the my question is adequately answered in the posts preceding that I hadn't read / hadn't posted at the time of writing,

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post #57 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 09:58 PM
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I just returned from my viewing and I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. There were quite a few scenes that were rather breathtaking, but they were few and far between. The first thing I immediately noticed were the stunning black levels. When the screen went black a few times between scenes, it literally looked like the projector was turned off.

I was a bit over-hyped going in and was hoping to have my socks knocked off, which didn't quite happen. My wife saw it with me and she is most certainly not an enthusiast. She was aware that there was new tech in the theater, but I purposefully glossed over what it was to keep from setting up any expectations. Afterwards, I asked her if she noticed any differences and she mentioned the blacks (probably because she's heard me griping against our projector in the past) and that it looked more 'real'.

I think that this is the key difference: everything is more believable. The buildings look like real buildings and the people look like they are in the room with you. It was usually subtle, but just enough to add an extra level of immersion to the picture.

All in all, I am still very excited about the technology and can not wait for it to trickle down to the home and eventually into my theater.
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post #58 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
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I feel bad for all of you that go through this. Behavior issues simply arent' a problem at either of the theaters that we frequent.
The only behavior problems they tend to have at theaters where I live is with the employees. I've been to movies where they leave the light on in the projection booth, or the projector is out of focus. Using picture quality such as HDR in theaters where the staff isn't competent will never work as a sales tactic.

Granted, I'm in a town of 50,000 people. Drive to the nearest city (Denver), and the technical quality tends to be a lot better.

Movies have to be really special to be worth a drive though. The last movie I did that for was one of the Harry Potter films. (Incidentally, the first movie I saw in Denver was Empire Strikes Back.)
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post #59 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post
I wonder where you go to movies...

In most Texas theaters I have been to, a vast majority of folks are respectful and I haven't seen any problems that would keep me from watching movies out.
Yeah people like to complain about all sorts of things... just like the yelp reviews where the quality of artesian water being served wasn't up to the customer's standards. I go to the theater about every 2 weeks, I very rarely encounter problems... just don't go on a Friday night if people aren't your thing.
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post #60 of 157 Old 05-22-2015, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron
To answer your question Scott, is HDR good enough to entice people to go to theaters again? the answer is NO.


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Same here.
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