"Dawn of Justice" Gets a Mere 2 1/2 Stars out of 4... - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 254 Old 03-23-2016, 08:07 PM
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I have told people that I saw this a mile away!

In all honesty, they needed a strong leading man for this part. Lex's persona is strong minded, like wise, his physical characteristics should have matched to a degree. Lex isn't suppose to be a little chump! It's known that Luthor has a love/hate relationship with the Man of Steel, and even though he hates Superman, he also admires him, at least his physical attributes, and in some cases, his intellect. Basically, Superman is the man Luthor can never be, but in a crazy way, that doesn't stop him from trying to be that man. Eisenberg, frankly, is not that man. Even someone as cliché a choice as Billy Zane would have made a better Lex than Eisenberg. Eisenberg neither has the voice "talent", or physical presence for the part, nor did he respect Luthor's mannerisms. Instead, he tried to emulate the joker, and his mannerisms from the social network. Though copying can be a form of flattery, in this case, it's not!
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post #32 of 254 Old 03-23-2016, 08:33 PM
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I don't care for the endless Marvel vs DC debates, I just want a good movie. A lot of Marvel movies, maybe all, follow the same basic formula with heavy doses of humor. It works in some movies, falls flat in others.

MoS was a disaster on nearly every level for reasons that have been discussed a thousand times. I think Cavill has zero charisma, and the script did not help. I'm pretty sure the only positive in BvS is going to be Affleck and it seems the early reviews confirm this. Snyder has done some great work, but he cannot make superhero movies like this, with constant action, paper thin plots and no understanding of the actual characters.

Did anyone not think the casting for Lex Luthor was terrible? It's now clear Snyder is to blame, can't really deflect it on Goyer anymore since he's long gone.

And this has nothing to do with humor or lack thereof. Nolan's films are said to be cold, clinical and lacking both humor and females. They are 100x better films than MoS and I'm sure BvS.
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post #33 of 254 Old 03-23-2016, 11:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kenoh89 View Post
Even someone as cliché a choice as Billy Zane would have made a better Lex than Eisenberg.
Agreed.


I wouldn't be surprised if the studio pushed for JE.
At this moment in Hollywood, he is an actor on their invisible "Hot List."



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post #34 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 07:38 AM
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JE has been pretty much one-note. But the trailers gave me the impression he learned to "act" a little. In any case, I'll go and find out for myself.
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post #35 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 09:43 AM
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I think Cavill has zero charisma, and the script did not help.
The script was the best part of MOS.
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post #36 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 09:43 AM
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well my kids have off school all next week, my plan is take them to the Cinema to see this Friday 4/1 if it gets decent "real" reviews.....
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post #37 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 10:27 AM
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How could it not be a good movie,Zack gave us 300,Watchmen,Dawn of the Dead & I know Sucker Punch which was killed by critics but I liked it a little(lot of cute girls!)I'm going to go see it anyway,critics didn't like Man of Steel but I liked it.From the previews I was worried that Eisenberg would ruin Lex Luther by acting too goofy,usually he's a good actor.
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post #38 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 01:05 PM
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I don't pay no mind to critics. Besides, it's well known when they get home at night, their fat and psychopathic wives will thrash them within inches of their lives.
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post #39 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 01:27 PM
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I don't pay no mind to critics. Besides, it's well known when they get home at night, their fat and psychopathic wives will thrash them within inches of their lives.
Comments like this are really unproductive.
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post #40 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 01:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
Besides, it's well known when they get home at night, their fat and psychopathic wives will thrash them within inches of their lives.
That's one of the most thought provoking post I've ever seen!
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post #41 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanx for the review.

LOFL....

Quote:
Huh?
Everyone around here loved it!
You need to stop looking at other sites/sources for movie reviews....

First of all, I am WELL versed in cinema and cinematic disciplines, having graduated from a well-respected U.S. film school with a concentration in expository writing. I am not "looking at other sites/sources for movie reviews," I only cited THIS one because it's been such a building sensation since the announcement of it. I wanted to share with other members what was going on with the initial critic feedback. Second of all, everyone at AVS "may have loved it," but that's not the whole universe, is it? It is hugely accepted, at least in the circles I have traveled, that Snyder is considered a Michael Bay-like "hack" (I strongly disagree) and that Dawn of the Dead was FAR inferior as compared to Romero's original.
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post #42 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That's one of the most thought provoking post I've ever seen!

It wasn't thought provoking; it was rather cruel and insensitive. I suspect we have Donald Trump and Ted Cruz to thank for this phenomenon of bagging on other people's wives now when they feel theirs is "the best in the world."
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post #43 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 01:40 PM
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Lol. I see the estrogen levels are rather high in here today. You have Roger Waters to thank for those poetic pearls.

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post #44 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post
How could it not be a good movie,Zack gave us 300,Watchmen,Dawn of the Dead & I know Sucker Punch which was killed by critics but I liked it a little(lot of cute girls!)I'm going to go see it anyway,critics didn't like Man of Steel but I liked it.From the previews I was worried that Eisenberg would ruin Lex Luther by acting too goofy,usually he's a good actor.

I liked Man of Steel as well -- to me, it was everything Superman II should/could have been if it weren't for the technical limitations of the time (we finally got to see Superman duke it out with Zod and his gang without it looking like completely silly green screen work) -- and outside of some quirks (the Perry White casting, making Martha and her husband much younger, the "Sucker Punch-meets-300" world of Krypton, Russell Crowe as Jor El, etc.) it was everything we could ask for in an angry superhero/revenge-seeking story.


The thing with Eisenberg I just don't get -- what was Snyder and the CSA casting team thinking? Just his lines in the teaser trailers were enough to make me run and hide in embarrassment; when ever was Luthor a millennium-type annoying twit who was less threatening than Richard Pryor's character in Superman III? Who came up with this idea? Do we even get to see him in his classic bald incarnation in the film? Originally, I thought Snyder was going for a young take on Luthor -- like a backstory kind of thing, which could have made sense using Eisenberg -- but from what I understand, we're already immersed in Luthor's world in Dawn of Justice (and we already saw his name on items in Man of Steel, such as the oil trucks and the buildings, etc.)...


This casting decision parallels the awful choice of Michael Shannon to play Zod in Man of Steel (he cannot hold a candle to Terence Stamp's cool, calculating performance in Superman II) but I eventually got over that and accepted it; hopefully we can do the same with Luthor...
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post #45 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Lol. I see the estrogen levels are rather high in here today. You have Roger Waters to thank for those poetic pearls.

Right...because saying someone's "wife is fat" has to do with US having "high estrogen levels"...


Got-cha.
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post #46 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It is a remake. Regularly folks make excellent remakes. It is less difficult than to come up with a original concept. btw i like that one a lot.

I disagree with the "regularly folks make excellent remakes" assessment; more often than not, it seems, particularly in the horror genre, the reverse is opposite -- consider the God-awful Amityville Horror remake, The Hitcher remake, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake (save for Jessica Biel's sweet ass) and the good-as-garbage House of Wax remake with that pig Paris Hilton. The plus column has merely a few; the aforementioned Dawn of the Dead, House on Haunted Hill, The Haunting et al. As far as other genres go, at times remakes get it right, such as Tony Scott's Man on Fire...but for the most part originals are always superior.
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post #47 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 02:40 PM
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I disagree with the "regularly folks make excellent remakes" assessment; more often than not, it seems, particularly in the horror genre, the reverse is opposite -- consider the God-awful Amityville Horror remake, The Hitcher remake, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake (save for Jessica Biel's sweet ass) and the good-as-garbage House of Wax remake with that pig Paris Hilton. The plus column has merely a few; the aforementioned Dawn of the Dead, House on Haunted Hill, The Haunting et al. As far as other genres go, at times remakes get it right, such as Tony Scott's Man on Fire...but for the most part originals are always superior.
...excellent remakes AFAIK..Rotten Tomatoes agrees
Cape Fear 76% RT
Dawn Of the Dead 75% RT
War of The Worlds 74% RT
The Thing 84% RT
Down and Out in Beverly Hills 84% RT
12 Monkeys 88% RT
King Kong 92%
Scarface 82% RT
Insomnia 92% RT
No Way Out 90% RT
The Departed 91% RT
True Grit 96% RT
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Originally Posted by kenoh89 View Post
I have told people that I saw this a mile away!

In all honesty, they needed a strong leading man for this part. Lex's persona is strong minded, like wise, his physical characteristics should have matched to a degree. Lex isn't suppose to be a little chump! It's known that Luthor has a love/hate relationship with the Man of Steel, and even though he hates Superman, he also admires him, at least his physical attributes, and in some cases, his intellect. Basically, Superman is the man Luthor can never be, but in a crazy way, that doesn't stop him from trying to be that man. Eisenberg, frankly, is not that man. Even someone as cliché a choice as Billy Zane would have made a better Lex than Eisenberg. Eisenberg neither has the voice "talent", or physical presence for the part, nor did he respect Luthor's mannerisms. Instead, he tried to emulate the joker, and his mannerisms from the social network. Though copying can be a form of flattery, in this case, it's not!
that is the problem with this movie. Lex luthor in here is like a forced nerd charcther to please the nerds among us. but it is forced. same as wonder women is forced. it does not feel natural added in the movie. also Lex as you mentioned is a strong minded charchter. flawed yes. but he is strong. not some hippy nerd guy.

action wise this movie is really good. but it the directing is like a mtv videoclip. t. defintly is worth the price of admission for the action scenes. but dont expect dark knight awesomeness in terms of story telling. because for me the dark knight is the best comic to movie adaption so far.

if you guys want, i can spoiler, but i think it is best for after the weekend when lots of people have seen it?
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post #49 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
...excellent remakes AFAIK..Rotten Tomatoes agrees
Cape Fear 76% RT
Dawn Of the Dead 75% RT
War of The Worlds 74% RT
The Thing 84% RT
Down and Out in Beverly Hills 84% RT
12 Monkeys 88% RT
King Kong 92%
Scarface 82% RT
Insomnia 92% RT
No Way Out 90% RT
The Departed 91% RT
True Grit 96% RT

The ratings of Rotten Tomatoes never impressed me (I personally know some of the administrative staff) -- regardless, I was speaking more about the horror genre with regard to remakes; of the list you provided, I would agree that the following were worthwhile remakes (to include Dawn of the Dead):


Cape Fear
War of the Worlds
The Thing (Carpenter's remake is of course horror)
Scarface

But, honestly...do you really believe in your heart of hearts that most remakes are better than originals? The majority of film aficionados will tell you originals are most always superior in execution, tone -- nearly every category. Were there some great remakes that improved upon the originals? Yes. But I don't believe they're the majority.

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post #50 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 03:13 PM
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Jesse Eisenberg is playing the same character from Social Network which made him famous - a meagalomaniac billionaire with plans of world domination
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post #51 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 03:18 PM
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I read a couple reviews and the good news is Ben Affleck is fantastic as Batman and Bruce Wayne. The reviews aren't exactly glowing but many movies that get good reviews are movies I don't like. Some movies that don't review well are great. The Avengers movies are usually reviewed pretty well as was Captain America but I am not much a fan of them. It might be sad to say but I only watched The Avengers: Age of Ultron for Robert Downey Jr and Jeremy Renner.

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Lol. I see the estrogen levels are rather high in here today.
+1.
Worth repeating. I wonder if someone was subjected to a mad scientist's experiment on the injection of estrogen mixed with testosterone...
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post #53 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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that is the problem with this movie. Lex luthor in here is like a forced nerd charcther to please the nerds among us. but it is forced. same as wonder women is forced. it does not feel natural added in the movie. also Lex as you mentioned is a strong minded charchter. flawed yes. but he is strong. not some hippy nerd guy.

action wise this movie is really good. but it the directing is like a mtv videoclip. t. defintly is worth the price of admission for the action scenes. but dont expect dark knight awesomeness in terms of story telling. because for me the dark knight is the best comic to movie adaption so far.

if you guys want, i can spoiler, but i think it is best for after the weekend when lots of people have seen it?

I haven't seen the film yet, but right off the bat I can say that I agree with your first assessment regarding Luthor -- that he was thrown in to appease the fanboys and nerds that grew up with the books (we're all included here). I don't understand where the choice to cast Eisenberg came from, unless they were going for an origin story of the character -- this would make more sense, in that we'd see a young, millennial-esque douche such as this create the Lex Corp. dynasty. You are completely right regarding the Luthor character being "stronger" and nothing like what he's portrayed as in Dawn of Justice...in my opinion, no one has done this better than Gene Hackman (though by today's standards his performance is definitely campy and goofy). To me, he IS Lex Luthor -- Kevin Spacey didn't do the character any justice, with his awkward gestures and clichéd (for Spacey) line deliveries. It's almost like Marvel's problem with Fantastic 4 -- no one can seem to get the character right.


What happened to the marketing posters which portrayed Eisenberg as bald and menacing? Or were these mostly fan-driven quasi-phonies? I think he COULD have worked in the film, had they made him look like that...


Discussing the film in here is fine, so long as you warn about spoilers, as I have been doing when clipping critics' comments -- as far as the aesthetics of the film that you mentioned and the editing, the trailers gave all that rapid-fire MTV-style editing away, with much of the CGI looking a bit haphazard in the fight sequences (a problem that burdens most of Snyder's work when it involves special effects; just look at Man of Steel, which had some sloppy action sequences with regard to logistics). As far as Chris Nolan goes with his Dark Knight saga, I respect the way he brought a real world, grounded feel to comic material -- however, sometimes I felt like it was TOO well-grounded in the way Bale moved about in the suit, sometimes coming across as "choppy" and "clunky" in his movements. In Batman Begins, I understand he was first donning the cape and cowl and "finding himself," but much of the action stunt work looked slow and "unprofessional" to me as Bale moved in the suit; this carried over to The Dark Knight in scenes such as when Bale hops onto the side of Scarecrow's van as he's trying to escape and attempts to cut through the van's exterior with his "super duper can opening" device...the whole thing looked "off" to me.


Now, looking at the way he's taking out the criminals in the clips from the Dawn of Justice trailers, in my opinion THIS is the way Batman should move and act -- LIGHTNING quick, throwing guys through walls and all over the place with no mercy. From the trailers, at least, it seems Affleck had this aspect down perfect -- though it's a bit surprising because he's supposed to be an older, more weathered Wayne in this, and he appears to be fighting and defending himself much better than he ever did in the Nolan films.
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post #54 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Jesse Eisenberg is playing the same character from Social Network which made him famous - a meagalomaniac billionaire with plans of world domination

That's true on some level -- but it doesn't seem to be correctly executed via this Lex Luthor characterization. Luthor WAS a megalomaniac billionaire with plans of world domination, but he didn't act or look like the millenialsuperdouche responsible for Facebook.
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post #55 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I read a couple reviews and the good news is Ben Affleck is fantastic as Batman and Bruce Wayne. The reviews aren't exactly glowing but many movies that get good reviews are movies I don't like. Some movies that don't review well are great. The Avengers movies are usually reviewed pretty well as was Captain America but I am not much a fan of them. It might be sad to say but I only watched The Avengers: Age of Ultron for Robert Downey Jr and Jeremy Renner.

Fair enough, cmd; indeed, it seems the title I chose for this thread -- referencing one of the first pieces of feedback from a critic and his rating system -- has ruffled feathers and bunched up panties in many (regardless of their testosterone and estrogen issues). Perhaps we should just regulate the conversation to discussing the film, for those just before they see it and after they see it, rather than continue on with the critic cynicism; with regard to Affleck: It is indeed very surprising that he's not being bashed on, as it seems anything he's in is pissed on. I knew from the first trailer that he was going to look and sound good beneath the cowl and cape, even if his jaw gives him away when he attempts to hide his identity from Gotham. I thought, initially, that these poor reviews were some kind of anti-Affleck crusade, but it seems that's not what's driving them after all.
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post #56 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 03:45 PM
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When Affleck was cast as Batman, it almost caused rioting on the streets, and it *did* cause rioting online, most people were calling for his head and declaring it a total joke. Now it seems he's the only good thing about the movie that everyone can agree on.

I find it rather ironic, but not surprising, he's proven himself as an actor and director in the 2nd part of his career. I'm pretty sure WB would've wanted him to direct as well.
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post #57 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 03:47 PM
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I don't pay no mind to critics. Besides, it's well known when they get home at night, their fat and psychopathic wives will thrash them within inches of their lives.

Lol!!


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post #58 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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When Affleck was cast as Batman, it almost caused rioting on the streets, and it *did* cause rioting online, most people were calling for his head and declaring it a total joke. Now it seems he's the only good thing about the movie that everyone can agree on.

I find it rather ironic, but not surprising, he's proven himself as an actor and director in the 2nd part of his career. I'm pretty sure WB would've wanted him to direct as well.

LOL...I remember the "almost rioting" scenarios when he was announced. Honestly, I never understood the hatred for him as an actor; there have been far worse. From what I can tell seeing interviews and witnessing him on talk shows, he doesn't seem to be that friendly of a guy in terms of keeping an ego in check and thinking he's NOT above everyone else, so perhaps that's where the hate is originating...


At any rate, with regard to the directing decision -- I believe he already expressed interest to Warner Bros. and Legendary that he wanted to make the next standalone Batman film.
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post #59 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 04:40 PM
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Gentlemen, settle down. Wabo's humor is an acquired taste. Heck, he's not even human...
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post #60 of 254 Old 03-24-2016, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
Lol. I see the estrogen levels are rather high in here today. You have Roger Waters to thank for those poetic pearls.
Know not these people 'The Wall' I knew it, and I know why you quoted it.

"Espresso is like tequila, when in doubt apply more shots."
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