Star Trek Beyond in Dolby Vision HDR and Atmos Sound - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 74 Old 07-24-2016, 07:27 PM
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After the my family and I stumbled out of the last Avenger's movie half deaf, I've got to wonder why anyone would go to a commercial theater anymore if you have to carry ear plugs for comfort and safety, but it is nice to know that all Abrams copied this time was the poster unlike "Star Trek into Darkness" or "Star Wars: A New Ripoff".



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post #32 of 74 Old 07-24-2016, 07:59 PM
 
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This one's a definite "rental".

I was going to see it in Dolby Vision since I'm in Cali right now but after reading the reviews I decided not to bother. The main thing that bothers me is that the Enterprise gets blown up at the beginning of the movie. Yeah, no. The ship is one of the main actors, and it's already been destroyed too many times. It's been done too often already. Played out, no longer fun. I wanted to see some more traditional Star Trek type storytelling but without the ship it's just another Hollywood action flick and that's it.

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post #33 of 74 Old 07-24-2016, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
How did the Dolby Vision image compare with the TCL Imax laser-illuminated projectors?
DV had brighter specular highlights, which was easily noticeable (e.g., background lights on the bridge of the Enterprise). That level of almost 3D-like pop was missing from the IMAX image (which, ironically, was in 3D).

Blacks looked good on both; I would give the edge to DV (maybe the brighter whites made the blacks look darker?). Blacks were continuing to improve, both on commercial projectors and consumer displays, even before HDR. It is the bright portions of the image where differences in various HDR implementations are really starting to separate from each other.

Having said all that, I continue to notice fine details in the IMAX image that I consistently don't pick up when I see the same movie at a Dolby Cinema (Force Awakens was another example I had seen both ways). The projected image at DCAP looks just slightly out-of-focus by comparison.

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post #34 of 74 Old 07-24-2016, 11:53 PM
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It's the mix. Caught the movie at a new Dolby Cinema at AMC Norwalk on Saturday night

Where did you end up sitting and what are the best seats there? I got my tickets for Suicide Squad and sitting in g8/g9, never been there before.

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post #35 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 01:33 AM
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One issue at least at my local Dolby Cinema is because the projectors are offset, alignment is good for most of the frame but looking at the edge of the picture, things aren't quite perfect alignment-wise.

Ironically this is likely only visible because AMCs no longer use any masking.

Do others see this too?
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post #36 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
I always played THX films at 75 dB Dolby reference level as that's how loud the filmmakers intended it to be in the mixing studio; I'm not going to turn it down because it's a little loud as they wanted it that loud.

For example, I remember the filmmakers instructing theaters that Twister was to be played 5 dB louder than normal, and if the owners needed to, warn patrons about it. My local theater did, and it was magnificent.

I further remember having to write letters to the editor as people complained my local THX theatre played films too loud, when in fact they didn't get that for once they were being played at the level intended, that was part of the whole point of THX - a 100 dB gunshot in the mixing room was supposed to be a 100 dB gunshot in the theater. I've yet to find a theater that plays movies anywhere close to the proper volume, where an explosion should be felt through your body the same way dance clubs have their subs cranked up.

I've yet to hear a movie anywhere near the volume level of an average rock concert or one of the Honky Tonks along Broadway in Nashville, let alone the 110 dB regularly hit at a dance club that used to be across from the local AMC.
Had your hearing checked recently? I can tell you that I value maintaining my hearing more than following the decisions of a movie-maker or theater owner about how much damaging noise I "should: experience. And yes, people are getting permanent damage to their hearing from those loud rock concerts. OSHA Required Hearing Protection in Factory is 85dB. Sustained Exposure May Cause Hearing Loss is 90dB. Scott Wilkinson measured an average sound level of 94+ dB over the course of this movie.

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post #37 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
This one's a definite "rental".

I was going to see it in Dolby Vision since I'm in Cali right now but after reading the reviews I decided not to bother. The main thing that bothers me is that the Enterprise gets blown up at the beginning of the movie. Yeah, no. The ship is one of the main actors, and it's already been destroyed too many times. It's been done too often already. Played out, no longer fun. I wanted to see some more traditional Star Trek type storytelling but without the ship it's just another Hollywood action flick and that's it.
That is what my wife and I thought after we walked out of the theater. "How many times are they going to destroy the Enterprise? At what point do they decide to give it a different name because that one is such bad luck, it is always getting destroyed?" I did like the film despite the fact they should have taken more time to fill in some of the plot.
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post #38 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
I use an iPhone app called AudioTools and an external, omnidirectional microphone called the iTestMic, both from Studio Six Digital. I tape the mic to a cane pointing straight up. The metrics I quote in my reviews are provided by an optional module called SPL Graph, which is an in-app purchase.
Geek!!!!
Just glad people don't look at that cane/mic combo and wonder if it's something else...with the recent events stuff
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post #39 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by wallfly View Post
That is what my wife and I thought after we walked out of the theater. "How many times are they going to destroy the Enterprise? At what point do they decide to give it a different name because that one is such bad luck, it is always getting destroyed?" I did like the film despite the fact they should have taken more time to fill in some of the plot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
This one's a definite "rental".

I was going to see it in Dolby Vision since I'm in Cali right now but after reading the reviews I decided not to bother. The main thing that bothers me is that the Enterprise gets blown up at the beginning of the movie. Yeah, no. The ship is one of the main actors, and it's already been destroyed too many times. It's been done too often already. Played out, no longer fun. I wanted to see some more traditional Star Trek type storytelling but without the ship it's just another Hollywood action flick and that's it.
I am 110% in agreement with you, stop blowing up the ship! Sheesh.
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post #40 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post
Where did you end up sitting and what are the best seats there? I got my tickets for Suicide Squad and sitting in g8/g9, never been there before.
We were in the middle of row F, but row G (where you've booked your seats) looked to be the sweet spot of the theatre.
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post #41 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
Hi Scott. I must say that I enjoyed the movie more than you did. I too saw all three seasons in the 60's and felt that the movie captured more of the feel of the old series than the last film which was quite poor. As for plotholes, Star Trek was always full of them. The biggest being that fact that a transporter souls need some sort of capturing and reconstruction device at the other end. But I digress. As their us still no theater in Philly that does either Dolby Vision or Atmos, I can't comment on that. However, I did watch it at a RPX theater and found the dialogue to be unintelligible quite often, especially the Krall character.
One thing I can say about the local IMAX (at the Riverview Regal on Columbus Blvd.) is the sound was fantastic. It's a brand-new amphitheater as far as the gear goes, and the audio (dialog included) could not be clearer than what I heard. Plus, there was no noise leakage coming from other theaters. I wished for Atmos for the height effects but aside from that I was very pleased, very impressed with the sound. My regret was watching it in 3D.

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post #42 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 08:38 AM
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I found the 3D to be distracting and frankly horrible.

Louder is NOT better!
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post #43 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post
I found the 3D to be distracting and frankly horrible.
I was so bothered by the 3D presentation, I wrote it up: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/44-mov...d-3d-imax.html

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post #44 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 09:46 AM
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I generally find IMAX presentations near me are often far too fraking loud. Batman TDKR was a miserable experience even with ear plugs, also the Imax screens generally exclusively show 3D when the option is available.

When I saw the first promos with the Enterprise being destroyed I also had a strong aversion to since it felt like returning to the well but in context of the film frankly it does not feel a like retread or a rehash of prior sequences. Thankfully the film does not feel like a lesser remake of a revered classic and for me it was fun time and plan to seeing it again and hopefully there is an extended cut that addresses some of the leaps in the narrative which are a bit jarring.

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post #45 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 10:28 AM
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I watched it last night in our Cinetopia 80' screen with Dolby 3D and Atmos. It was a visually stunning movie and the sound was great. The movie and its plot was a massive disappointment (I am an old school Star Trek guy bu I really *loved* the first 2 remake movies). Its till worth watching but don't expect much.

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post #46 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 10:50 AM
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I just got back from seeing Beyond and yeah it was ok. Wasn't bad or great but it kept me entertained. I do think Chris Pine was quoted to saying "most audiences today isn't ready for a cerebral Trek movie." I know I am ready but maybe the majority going to the theaters these days just want to see action through out the film, dunno? I did enjoy the Dolby Atmos sound and the movie definitely worked the subwoofers out! Visually the movie was ok, my theater uses regular DLP so I don't think it is up to snuff like the newer projector systems.
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post #47 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
I didn't know Star Trek Beyond had been made for Barco Escape; interesting...I'm tempted to go see it at the Barco Escape theater in the Howard Hughes Center in West Los Angeles, but I'm not sure I can sit through the movie again just for that.
One of the readers of my blog saw the movie at a Barco Escape theater and didn't care for the presentation. He wrote:

"Just got back from seeing this in panoramic format and unfortunately the presentation left much to be desired.

For starters, the peripheral screens weren’t installed completely straight so when the movie opened up to all three, the image didn’t line up properly a lot of the time and was more distracting than anything else.

Secondly, because of the added screens and projectors to light them, the theatre became rather bright much too often and contrast took a big hit.

Thirdly, the overall image quality during the panoramic sequences was dogsh*t compared to the single screen stuff. It would look soft/muddy/blurry depending on the shot. After awhile it was almost like watching two different films and thus not very immersive.

All this adds up to the fact that I wont be watching anymore films in the Barco Escape format anytime soon."

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post #48 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Had your hearing checked recently? I can tell you that I value maintaining my hearing more than following the decisions of a movie-maker or theater owner about how much damaging noise I "should: experience. And yes, people are getting permanent damage to their hearing from those loud rock concerts. OSHA Required Hearing Protection in Factory is 85dB. Sustained Exposure May Cause Hearing Loss is 90dB. Scott Wilkinson measured an average sound level of 94+ dB over the course of this movie.
Like you, I value my hearing far more than what anyone else says I "should" experience, but the OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) limits are a bit more complicated than you state here. According to the Occupational Noise Exposure document from OSHA, that organization's permissible exposure limit is an average of 90 dBA for eight hours. But the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) specifies a limit of 85 dBA for eight hours, and OSHA requires employers to implement a hearing-conservation program when workers are exposed to average noise levels of 85 dBA or higher.

Most of my measurements are taken using dBC weighting, which takes into account low frequencies more than dBA. Some of the metrics generated by my app are in dBZ (flat, no weighting). Measurements in dBC and dBZ are generally about 10 dB higher than dBA, so the measurements I give correspond to numbers about 10 dB lower when expressed in dBA. Thus, my measurements for Star Trek Beyond (and most movies) are actually within the OHSA and NIOSH requirements—plus, the audience's exposure to those levels is "only" for two hours or so, not eight.

That being said, I believe that the OSHA and NIOSH limits are too high for real safety. Of course, I'm not a doctor, but the ENTs and audiologists I've talked with about this tend to agree that repeated exposure to an average level of 85 dBA for two hours can lead to permanent hearing damage over time. Notice I said "repeated exposure"; being exposed to 85 dBA for two hours once might cause temporary ringing in the ears (aka tinnitus) or hearing loss, but doing it repeatedly for years can cause those conditions to become permanent. Add loud rock concerts (which easily reach 100 dBA and more) to that, and permanent damage will become evident much sooner. So my advice is, protect what you have, because once it's gone, it's gone for good.

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post #49 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

That being said, I believe that the OSHA and NIOSH limits are too high for real safety. Of course, I'm not a doctor, but the ENTs and audiologists I've talked with about this tend to agree that repeated exposure to an average level of 85 dBA for two hours can lead to permanent hearing damage over time. Notice I said "repeated exposure"; being exposed to 85 dBA for two hours once might cause temporary ringing in the ears (aka tinnitus) or hearing loss, but doing it repeatedly for years can cause those conditions to become permanent. Add loud rock concerts (which easily reach 100 dBA and more) to that, and permanent damage will become evident much sooner. So my advice is, protect what you have, because once it's gone, it's gone for good.
I know some film mixers who had to stop mixing due to hearing damage, which seemed to come from listening to reference levels for long periods of time. I spent tons of time in mixing theaters and playing back my tracks at reference levels, and it seemed to contribute to a serious exacerbation of tinnitus. (So I'm more careful now).

Movies are more dynamic and played much louder these days. It used to be only once in a while people would go to movies and experience these sound levels. Having been perusing tinnitus/hyperacusis boards for years, I've seen numerous accounts of people developing hearing issues, or having their issues greatly exacerbated, by exposure to one loud movie experience.

Now home theater fans can spend a lot more time blasting their ears at reference levels and "feeling those subs" at home many nights a week, which was never the case before. Something to think about if one values hearing.
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post #50 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 01:13 PM
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I saw this at The Pacific Theater at The Americana in 3d and I have to say, I enjoyed it but Into Darkness was to me a better movie than Beyond when it came to depth of story, this felt more like what you would see in a 2 part episode of Star Trek on TV not something you would see at a Feature Film. Again first one awesome, second one I enjoyed, third one I found less enjoying than the second movie.

I plan to go see it with my brother at the Dolby Cinema in AMC 16 so that I can compare my viewing experience so I can get a better idea of the different hardware.

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post #51 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 01:25 PM
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I encourage the use of hearing protection! Generic foam plugs offer a lot of attenuation, but not a flat frequency response. Custom-molded ear plugs are much flatter, but not quite as attenuating...plus, they are quite expensive at a couple hundred bucks. I use custom-molded plugs because I want a flatter frequency response.
I use these ear plugs.

Etymotic Research ER20 $12.99

https://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Rese...ords=ear+plugs
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post #52 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 02:15 PM
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Thanks for all the replies in regards to ear plugs. I'll have to pick something up.
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post #53 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness
(That's also another problem with Quinto: like so many people trying to imitate spock he just can't re-create the way Nimoy delivered lines that suggested real, deep intelligence. What you get is someone trying to deliver lines in a sort of clipped "trying to sound precise and intelligent" manner, instead of actually believing it).
Agreed. I said at the first reboot, Quinto sounded like Sylar attempting to channel Spock. Abrams loses points for not directing him to emulate Nimoy.

Anyway, a friend saw this in IMAX 3D and greatly enjoyed the film as well as the 3D; I may catch it this weekend.
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post #54 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I use these ear plugs.

Etymotic Research ER20 $12.99

https://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Rese...ords=ear+plugs
Etymotic ER20s are very good! They have an attenuation factor of 20 dB.
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post #55 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 10:05 PM
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I saw 'Star Trek Beyond' at Arclight Bethesda on it's specialty 'widescreen' screen and while I thought the image was too dark to convey the 3D at times, the spastic camera work didn't help in that respect either; BUT aurally, the dynamics, calibration and volume setting is far superior to AMC Tyson's Dolby Cinema (by a landslide) - dialogue was always intelligible. Bass was tight and when it gets loud it's appropriately loud, but never overbearing. Directional dialog is excellent and in one instance of Kirk walking and talking, his voice pans from left, left-center, center, right center, right. The acoustics really puts Tyson's system to shame since that system voices sound sibilant, and in some truly odd instances they reverb into the surround tracks for no reason at all (this occurred during 'Captain America: Civil War' and 'Finding Dory'). Laser projection though at the Dolby Cinema location is where it proves it's worth: the brightness, the range of colors look absolutely fantastic BUT and here's where the Dolby folk did something truly dumb. In dropping the screen down to nearly floor level, the new red lighting that illuminates nearly everything in the room before the movie, during the movie (and due to fire codes) the safety lighting nearest the screen bounces back onto the screen. The redness creates blotches on the screen and is very noticeable in either dark scenes and in the letterbox borders during presentations of scope (2.35 - 2.40) movies. In promoting state of art projection, eye-popping colors, dark black levels, Dolby adds ancillary light thus diminishing the intended 'best cinematic experience' (and don't get me started how I hate the pseudo D-Box rumbling seats). Dolby Atmos mixing when done right is amazing, yet with a seriously flawed (and expensive) Dolby Cinema presentation, I have to choose how and where I want to see a movie - it toggles between Arclight Bethesda's two Atmos equipped screens or the two IMAX-laser systems at the Air & Space museums (intown or out in Chantilly Virginia) - Dolby Cinema at Tyson's is my last resort. My fingers are crossed that next month's planned AMC Georgetown Dolby Cinema opening doesn't create the same problems that are apparent at Tysons.
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post #56 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 10:20 PM
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Star Trek Beyond in Dolby Vision HDR and Atmos Sound

I saw Star Trek at Tysons and didn't notice any red global light bounce at all. Once the film started the speaker lights go off.
And there are scenes that get dark in Trek so I think I would have noticed.
I'll have have to check out Georgetowns AMC when I visit DC. But I enjoy the theater at Tyson.


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post #57 of 74 Old 07-25-2016, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
I saw Star Trek at Tysons and didn't notice any red global light bounce at all. Once the film started the speaker lights go off.
And there are scenes that get dark in Trek so I think I would have noticed.
I'll have have to check out Georgetowns AMC when I visit DC. But I enjoy the theater at Tyson.


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the red haze (as I saw it during 'Batman vs. Superman, 'Captain America: Civil War', and 'Finding Dory') is on the lower left and right bottom edges of the screen. Georgetown's Dolby Cinema screen is slated to open late August - barring any problems or delays.
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post #58 of 74 Old 07-26-2016, 09:49 AM
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Heard from a friend of mine that his seat at the AMC Prime in Burbank had a big rip in it. The manager's only response was to suggest using another seat. Very disappointed to hear this sort of thing.
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post #59 of 74 Old 07-26-2016, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
Heard from a friend of mine that his seat at the AMC Prime in Burbank had a big rip in it. The manager's only response was to suggest using another seat. Very disappointed to hear this sort of thing.
Wow, that's terrible! Especially since they are assigned seats, and there might not be another one available at a reasonable location with respect to the screen.
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post #60 of 74 Old 07-26-2016, 01:40 PM
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Pardon my ignorance but if reverence levels are, in your opinion, too loud and possibly dangerous to one's health, then why are these the references levels at all? Shouldn't the reference levels be set to what would be considered an average normal level or a compromise between the two?

Haven't seen the film yet but, despite the less than stellar reviews, I do look forward to seeing it anyway. In my opinion, a story is about the depth of the characters, the uniqueness of the plot line and simply good story telling. I love action films but the special effects should supplement that story. A movie that is nothing more than special fx (aka Transformers), is a waste of my time.
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