Blade Runner 2049 - In Theaters 10/6/17 - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 633 Old 12-27-2017, 02:30 PM
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Wow, streamed last night first viewing. I have a bad back and 245 in the theater is too much. Lucky for me I finished my Velvet pit some months ago so I was by no means slumming it. I have a 120in front projection screen with masking and a JVC X500 PJ. My room is completely and totally triple black velvet. So all I see is the image floating into the void....

Anywho, my initial reaction is one of my all time favorite movies.This,imho is a work of art and rivals GOD Father 2 for best sequel. I could not ask for anymore, told it's own story with in the story without stepping on toes or pandering or any number of the short falls sequels and reboots tend to do these days. Every performance was strong and nuanced and expanded the world. To say nothing of all that eye candy drizzled with hints of the original score. So haunting and so alluring, I can not wait to get this on disc.

On a side note, I need bass. I can only imagine how much rumble I missed in this movie.lol
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post #152 of 633 Old 01-08-2018, 05:30 PM
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My thoughts:

It has some impressive visuals (giant interactive ads, landscapes, etc.) The dreaded teal/orange ugliness rears its inundating cliche head, but it's not as pervasive as I had feared. It's VERY loud in spots, with overwhelming bass. I'm glad I did NOT see it in an IMAX venue.

I had problems with the story. It didn't really go anywhere interesting beyond the original. I don't think it really could have, since the fundamental questions about and implications of the existence of replicants had already been addressed well in the original.

Spoiler!


I give it style points, but the story doesn't measure up.
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post #153 of 633 Old 01-08-2018, 06:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
I had problems with the story. It didn't really go anywhere interesting beyond the original. I don't think it really could have, since the fundamental questions about and implications of the existence of replicants had already been addressed well in the original.

Spoiler!


I give it style points, but the story doesn't measure up.
Which "original" are you referring to, the theatrical release or the director's (final) cut?
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post #154 of 633 Old 01-08-2018, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
Which "original" are you referring to, the theatrical release or the director's (final) cut?
Since the fundamental questions about and implications of being a replicant are essentially the same in either version (yes, I'm aware of the whole "is Deckard a replicant" debate that Scott tried to skew with his later edit), it doesn't really matter. There's really nothing new in BR 2049 beyond what I addressed, and that development doesn't really lead to anything.
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post #155 of 633 Old 01-08-2018, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
... impressed visuals ... loud in spots, with overwhelming bass....

the story. It didn't really go anywhere interesting beyond the original.[/SPOILER]

I give it style points, but the story doesn't measure up.
yup. exactly.

it has some visual style but the story lacked.
simple prolonged repetitive story on a pretty picture... i dont even know that i have patience to watch it again, except to turn it up for the occasional bass
... as opposed to the original which still feels interesting
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post #156 of 633 Old 01-08-2018, 09:38 PM
 
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Spoiler!


I give it style points, but the story doesn't measure up.
Spoiler!
I only saw it once so I may have missed something.
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post #157 of 633 Old 01-08-2018, 10:05 PM
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Spoiler!
I only saw it once so I may have missed something.
Spoiler!

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post #158 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by RobertR View Post
My thoughts:

It has some impressive visuals (giant interactive ads, landscapes, etc.) The dreaded teal/orange ugliness rears its inundating cliche head, but it's not as pervasive as I had feared. It's VERY loud in spots, with overwhelming bass. I'm glad I did NOT see it in an IMAX venue.

I had problems with the story. It didn't really go anywhere interesting beyond the original. I don't think it really could have, since the fundamental questions about and implications of the existence of replicants had already been addressed well in the original.

Spoiler!


I give it style points, but the story doesn't measure up.
I love loud movies with great LFE but sometimes even a self confessed bass-head like me wishes the LFE could have been dialed back a bit. The opening scene in this film had such loud, low LFE that the low frequencies not only pounded my chest but caused my family room's plantation shutters and the door to my master bedroom to rattle rather alarmingly. Fun in a way I guess but I think a little moderation here could have made it better.

I disagree profoundly with your analysis of the film.
Spoiler!


Pardon my prolixity but I am a Blade Runner nerd so I can't help myself.

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post #159 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
I love loud movies with great LFE but sometimes even a self confessed bass-head like me wishes the LFE could have been dialed back a bit. The opening scene in this film had such loud, low LFE that the low frequencies not only pounded my chest but caused my family room's plantation shutters and the door to my master bedroom to rattle rather alarmingly. Fun in a way I guess but I think a little moderation here could have made it better.

I disagree profoundly with your analysis of the film.
Spoiler!


Pardon my prolixity but I am a Blade Runner nerd so I can't help myself.
It's always been obvious that Deckard and Rachel wound up together, even if Scott tried to obfuscate it in the so called "final cut". I never saw any Blade Runner devotee say anything like "golly gee, I sure hope this new movie answers the question of whether Deckard and Rachel got together" prior to it coming out. Can you point out a post where this was said?

As for your other point,

Spoiler!
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post #160 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 10:19 AM
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@RobertR -- Despite my profound disagreement with your negative opinion and your analysis leading to your conclusion, understand that you weren't crazy about the film.

In stark contrast to your opinion of the film, on IMDb I gave Blade Runner 2049 a vote of 10 Stars out of 10 and nearly 200,000 other IMDb voters have given an average rating of 8.3 Stars out of 10. The critical acclaim it has received has been equally lavish. The reviews collected by Rotten Tomatoes were 87 percent "Fresh." I think we can agree, then, that although you are certainly entitled to your opinion of the film, it puts you in a decided minority. What the hell though, without differences of opinion we wouldn't have horse racing.

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post #161 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 10:34 AM
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I think we can agree, then, that although you are certainly entitled to your opinion of the film, it puts you in a decided minority
It doesn't put me in a minority among movie goers in general, since the movie was a box office flop. More to the point, saying that some people liked it does nothing at all to counter my specific criticisms.
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post #162 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 11:16 AM
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It doesn't put me in a minority among movie goers in general, since the movie was a box office flop.
Being a box office flop is not the same thing as saying that people didn't like it. All it means is that people weren't interested enough to pay to see it. If they haven't seen it, they have no way of deciding whether they liked it or not.

The original film was also a box office flop.

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post #163 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 11:44 AM
 
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It's always been obvious that Deckard and Rachel wound up together, even if Scott tried to obfuscate it in the so called "final cut". I never saw any Blade Runner devotee say anything like "golly gee, I sure hope this new movie answers the question of whether Deckard and Rachel got together" prior to it coming out. Can you point out a post where this was said?
As for the original, besides the theatrical release in USA, there was alternative release targeted for European market which has more nudity and love scene. In 1982 European cut, the ending didn't show Rick & Rachel driving into the sunset. Instead, it ends when the elevator door closes (just like the director's butchered / cut ) but the speculation / talks in town was that Rick brought Rachel out in the field and "retired" her with his pistol. IOW, he kept his professional duty.

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Spoiler!
If my memory serves,
Spoiler!
Convoluted plot? Yes.


This will be solved in 7 days!
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post #164 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 11:45 AM
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Being a box office flop is not the same thing as saying that people didn't like it. All it means is that people weren't interested enough to pay to see it. If they haven't seen it, they have no way of deciding whether they liked it or not.
It's reasonable in many cases to assume that people don't bother to see a movie because they know they wouldn't like it. That was certainly the case with me and a number of movies including the Transformers franchise.

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The original film was also a box office flop.
My point is that specific criticisms of a movie aren't obviated simply by saying "x group of people liked it".
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post #165 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 11:57 AM
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As for the original, besides the theatrical release in USA, there was alternative release targeted for European market which has more nudity and love scene. In 1982 European cut, the ending didn't show Rick & Rachel driving into the sunset. Instead, it ends when the elevator door closes (just like the director's butchered / cut ) but the speculation / talks in town was that Rick brought Rachel out in the field and "retired" her with his pistol. IOW, he kept his professional duty.
In my years of reading threads about BR, I've never seen speculation along those lines. It doesn't make sense in the context of earlier scenes clearly showing mutual romantic interest. If he was so eager to "do his duty", why would he wait to off her?

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If my memory serves,
Spoiler!
Please point out the scene where what you said happens.

Spoiler!
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post #166 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 12:15 PM
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As for the original, besides the theatrical release in USA, there was alternative release targeted for European market which has more nudity and love scene. In 1982 European cut, the ending didn't show Rick & Rachel driving into the sunset. Instead, it ends when the elevator door closes (just like the director's butchered / cut )
The only difference between the American and European theatrical cuts is that the Euro version had some extra snippets of violence (not sex or nudity). From IMDb:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083658/...f_=tt_ql_trv_5

-When Roy attacks Tyrell we clearly see him pushing his thumbs into Tyrell's eyes, and blood spurting out
-When Pris (Daryl Hannah) attacks Deckard, she reaches down and grabs him by the nostrils
-When Deckard shoots Pris, he shoots 3 times instead of 2
-When Roy pushes the nail through his hand, there is a shot of the nail coming through the skin on the other side.

Both of these versions of the movie have the happy ending where Deckard and Rachel drive off into the forest. Aside from the early 1982 Workprint (which was test-screened for selected audiences but represented an uncompleted version of the movie), the 1992 Director's Cut was the first official version of the movie to end with the elevator doors closing.

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but the speculation / talks in town was that Rick brought Rachel out in the field and "retired" her with his pistol. IOW, he kept his professional duty.
I agree with RobertR that I had never heard anyone speculate this.
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post #167 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 12:24 PM
 
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Please point out the scene where what you said happens.
As shown in my spoiler on post number 163.
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In my years of reading threads about BR, I've never seen speculation along those lines.
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I agree with RobertR that I had never heard anyone speculate this.
Must have been a localized speculation / talk back in 1982.
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post #169 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 12:33 PM
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Must have been a localized speculation / talk back in 1982.
Based on what Josh said, there is no basis for the "European cut" to cause such speculation.
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Based on what Josh said, there is no basis for the "European cut" to cause such speculation.
I don't believe people on this planet all speculate / talk the same way. If we do, there won't be any use for Rorschach test.
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It's reasonable in many cases to assume that people don't bother to see a movie because they know they wouldn't like it.
In which case, most people also "knew" that they wouldn't like the original Blade Runner either.

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post #172 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 12:47 PM
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In which case, most people also "knew" that they wouldn't like the original Blade Runner either.
Yes.
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Yes.
Which does not make it a bad movie.

I disagree with some of your reading of 2049, but I would need to watch it again to be clear on some of the plot points.

Spoiler!
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post #174 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 01:18 PM
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Which does not make it a bad movie.

I disagree with some of your reading of 2049, but I would need to watch it again to be clear on some of the plot points.

Spoiler!
After reading the spoiler, I agree with your logic.

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post #175 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 01:27 PM
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I don't believe people on this planet all speculate / talk the same way. If we do, there won't be any use for Rorschach test.
Previously you said the speculation was caused by differences in the European cut. Now you're saying it's caused by differences in individual psychology, even though you're unable to point to anything that would have caused such speculation.
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Which does not make it a bad movie.
Again, my point is that a specific critique is not obviated by citing numbers on how many people liked something.

Quote:
I disagree with some of your reading of 2049, but I would need to watch it again to be clear on some of the plot points.

Spoiler!
Spoiler!
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post #177 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 01:51 PM
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In which case, most people also "knew" that they wouldn't like the original Blade Runner either.
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Yes.
In my case, I "knew" I wouldn't like Blade Runner (1982), either and skipped it in the theater. In fact, I had only seen it on TV until I bought the 5 Disc Complete Collectors Edition BDs in 2007. Then I fell in love with the film and became a genuine Blade Runner nerd. Finally I bought the UHD HDR TrueHD Atmos version last fall and was simply blown away. Both its UHD HDR video and TrueHD Atmos audio are a triumph and make this already great film more impressive than ever. Make of all this what you will. Exam to follow.
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post #178 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 01:59 PM
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In my case, I "knew" I wouldn't like Blade Runner (1982), either and skipped it in the theater. In fact, I had only seen it on TV until I bought the 5 Disc Complete Collectors Edition BDs in 2007.
You can't have been all that certain you wouldn't like it if you wound up buying the collector's edition. But yet again, this discussion doesn't address my specific critiques.
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In which case, most people also "knew" that they wouldn't like the original Blade Runner either.
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In my case, I "knew" I wouldn't like Blade Runner (1982), either and skipped it in the theater. In fact, I had only seen it on TV until I bought the 5 Disc Complete Collectors Edition BDs in 2007. Then I fell in love with the film and became a genuine Blade Runner nerd. Finally I bought the UHD HDR TrueHD Atmos version last fall and was simply blown away. Both its UHD HDR video and TrueHD Atmos audio are a triumph and make this already great film more impressive than ever. Make of all this what you will. Exam to follow.
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You can't have been all that certain you wouldn't like it if you wound up buying the collector's edition. But yet again, this discussion doesn't address my specific critiques.
It’s surely unintentional but you have overlooked my salient point that after I decided not to see Blade Runner in the theater, in 1982, I watched it on TV. In the event, I watched it on TV several times between the ‘80s, when it first appeared there, and 2007, when I bought the BDs. I should have added that long before the time I bought the disks, a critical consensus had been reached that the film was a classic.

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post #180 of 633 Old 01-09-2018, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post
It’s surely unintentional but you have overlooked my salient point that after I decided not to see Blade Runner in the theater, in 1982, I watched it on TV. In the event, I watched it on TV several times between the ‘80s, when it first appeared there, and 2007, when I bought the BDs. I should have added that long before the time I bought the disks, a critical consensus had been reached that the film was a classic.
I still don't know what this has to do with my specific critiques of BR 2049.
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