Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk in Dolby Vision HDR, 3D, 120 fps, Atmos Sound - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 95 Old 11-09-2016, 11:16 AM
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What the heck, a guy on Twitter said he got an email from Sony saying their plans have changed and no Dolby Cinema release? WHAT? I seriously hope this is a caveat, the November 3rd Hollywood Reporter article said the 2K 120 fps 3D Dolby Vision version would be in Dolby Cinemas......
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post #62 of 95 Old 11-09-2016, 11:44 AM
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I'd been checking my local Dolby Cinema's showtimes for the upcoming weekend and they finally posted them this morning: Dr. Strange will continue for another week (I'm guessing Fantastic Beasts the week after, Moana the week after that, then La La Land, followed by Rogue One). I don't see where they could fit BLLHW into the Dolby Cinema schedule. I was hoping this weekend, but apparently not. Every weekend after seems booked with a new movie.

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post #63 of 95 Old 11-09-2016, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manu Delpech View Post
What the heck, a guy on Twitter said he got an email from Sony saying their plans have changed and no Dolby Cinema release? WHAT? I seriously hope this is a caveat, the November 3rd Hollywood Reporter article said the 2K 120 fps 3D Dolby Vision version would be in Dolby Cinemas......
I can confirm that none of the Dolby Cinemas in my area (Orlando and Jacksonville) has it scheduled. That's a shame.

All other cinemas don't have it opening until the 18th. So we'll have to wait and see if any will have HFR showings.

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I'd been checking my local Dolby Cinema's showtimes for the upcoming weekend and they finally posted them this morning: Dr. Strange will continue for another week (I'm guessing Fantastic Beasts the week after, Moana the week after that, then La La Land, followed by Rogue One). I don't see where they could fit BLLHW into the Dolby Cinema schedule. I was hoping this weekend, but apparently not. Every weekend after seems booked with a new movie.
AMC doesn't post their schedules for the upcoming weekend beginning on Friday (or sometimes Thursday night in the case of a major release) until Wednesday mornings. This has always bothered me with trying to purchase advance tickets.

I agree, they should have been able to fit it in for a one week run time before Fantastic Beasts opens next week. Especially since Dr. Strange will still be in IMAX and most Dolby cinemas are co-located in AMC's with both formats.
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post #64 of 95 Old 11-10-2016, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone know if an official list has been released of theaters showing it and at what specs?
I just confirmed AMC's plan for Billy Lynn and added it to the OP in a clearly marked update. It turns out that there are only a few theaters showing it at 120 fps: two starting Nov. 10 for one week only (AMC Loews Lincoln Square 13 in NYC and ArcLight Cinerama Dome in LA, both showing it in 4K, 3D, 120 fps, but no HDR) and three starting Nov. 17 (the Dolby Cinema at AMC Village on the Parkway 9 in Dallas [3D, HDR] as well as the AMC Loews Boston Common 19 in Boston and AMC Tysons Corner 16 in McLean, VA [both in 2D and not in the Dolby Cinema auditorium, so no HDR]. Apparently, it will be in no other Dolby Cinemas because of Fantastic Beasts coming out at the same time.

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post #65 of 95 Old 11-11-2016, 03:41 AM
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Ugh, Sony, what the frack are you doing? They're dumping this, it's only widening to 1100 + theaters on the 18th ! I'm guessing if they didn't change release plans last minute, it would have had at least one week in Dolby Cinemas, such a mess. I can't imagine Ang being thrilled right now.

It was a mistake to show it in HFR at its first screening, this is just too early, too many preconceived ideas, too much resistance, the NYFF reception was murderous, and god knows negativity online spreads very fast. Hopefully, they treat it better overseas, it's out in China, HK, and India.
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post #66 of 95 Old 11-11-2016, 08:30 AM
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Interesting. Does this mean we can expect to see 3d presentations at Dolby Cinemas any time soon? If they have already, I totally missed the boat on that one. My impression was that they were 2D only, at least in the U.S.
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Normally, AMC has decided not to show 3D in its Dolby Cinemas, but they are fully capable of it. I'm guessing that they might make an exception in this case, since 3D is so important to Ang Lee's vision for the movie.
Sorry for being a little off-topic to Billy Lynn but AMC booked the 3D version of The Jungle Book remake into the Dolby Cinema room at the NYC Empire 25 theatre back in April 2016. It was the first time they've showed a 3D movie in a Dolby Cinema theatre. I chatted with the theatre manager at the time and she said it was an experiment for them. She was pretty excited about it. Not sure what conclusions they drew from the run but so far, AMC hasn't placed any other 3D movies in any of its Dolby Cinema rooms.

I'll probably see Billy Lynn at the AMC Lincoln Square today or tomorrow so will post some personal impressions afterwards.
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post #67 of 95 Old 11-11-2016, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for being a little off-topic to Billy Lynn but AMC booked the 3D version of The Jungle Book remake into the Dolby Cinema room at the NYC Empire 25 theatre back in April 2016. It was the first time they've showed a 3D movie in a Dolby Cinema theatre. I chatted with the theatre manager at the time and she said it was an experiment for them. She was pretty excited about it. Not sure what conclusions they drew from the run but so far, AMC hasn't placed any other 3D movies in any of its Dolby Cinema rooms.

I'll probably see Billy Lynn at the AMC Lincoln Square today or tomorrow so will post some personal impressions afterwards.
Yeah, I've heard of a couple of examples of an AMC Dolby Cinema showing 3D, but not many. As I stated in the update to the OP, the Dolby Cinema at AMC Village on the Parkway 9 in Dallas will be showing Billy Lynn in 3D and HDR, but it's the only one.

I look forward to your impressions of the movie at Lincoln Square!
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post #68 of 95 Old 11-11-2016, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
I just confirmed AMC's plan for Billy Lynn and added it to the OP in a clearly marked update. It turns out that there are only a few theaters showing it at 120 fps: two starting Nov. 10 for one week only (AMC Loews Lincoln Square 13 in NYC and ArcLight Cinerama Dome in LA, both showing it in 4K, 3D, 120 fps, but no HDR) and three starting Nov. 17....
Scott,
Can we assume that you'll be seeing this in LA, and filling us in on how it compares to the screening you've already witnessed?

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post #69 of 95 Old 11-11-2016, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
I just confirmed AMC's plan for Billy Lynn and added it to the OP in a clearly marked update. It turns out that there are only a few theaters showing it at 120 fps: two starting Nov. 10 for one week only (AMC Loews Lincoln Square 13 in NYC and ArcLight Cinerama Dome in LA, both showing it in 4K, 3D, 120 fps, but no HDR) and three starting Nov. 17 (the Dolby Cinema at AMC Village on the Parkway 9 in Dallas [3D, HDR] as well as the AMC Loews Boston Common 19 in Boston and AMC Tysons Corner 16 in McLean, VA [both in 2D and not in the Dolby Cinema auditorium, so no HDR]. Apparently, it will be in no other Dolby Cinemas because of Fantastic Beasts coming out at the same time.
So the Boston Common is 120 fps, but not 3D or HDR? Any idea if that one's 2k or 4k?

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post #70 of 95 Old 11-11-2016, 10:52 AM
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I saw a comment on a forum of someone seeing it in 60 fps in China, might be hope for more HFR shows overseas.

120 fps without 3D or HDR can only be the 2K 120 fps 2D version.
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post #71 of 95 Old 11-11-2016, 11:59 AM
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120 fps without 3D or HDR can only be the 2K 120 fps 2D version.
I think I'll pass. I feel bad for Ang Lee that basically no one will be able to see his movie the way he made it.

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post #72 of 95 Old 11-11-2016, 12:23 PM
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It's Sony's fault, they didn't put the infrastructure for it in time, and also got cold feet, because we KNOW that those 7 different versions do exist (hell China has the 3D 60 fps version). Maybe that's why it's releasing in most of the world late January, February, give it more time for the HFR infrastructure.

But yeah, it was never going to be a home run, Ang said he hoped it would be but knows it's just too jarring for many people, that maybe he tried too much too soon, but hopefully Studio 8 & Sony let him continue to use the format on Thrilla In Manila next.
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post #73 of 95 Old 11-11-2016, 01:29 PM
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...But yeah, it was never going to be a home run, Ang said he hoped it would be but knows it's just too jarring for many people, that maybe he tried too much too soon, but hopefully Studio 8 & Sony let him continue to use the format on Thrilla In Manila next.
Yes but isn't that going to be a problem for believability for the boxing scenes in 120 fps 4K 3D if it's actors - won't people see that the boxing isn't real more easily - at least if it's shot in the conventional way (not using visual effects) but in that format. It might not be the best film for the HFR format to gain acceptance - surely films that better take advantage of the higher frame rates would be better.
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post #74 of 95 Old 11-11-2016, 02:10 PM
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Well, Ang specifically talked about this, so I'm guessing some of those punches will have to connect for real. He said he's still figuring it out (and he did tests for a year on Thrilla before Billy Lynn, he thought about 60 fps before meeting Trumbull and deciding on 120), what works, what doesn't work, so I'm sure he's going to find a way. I love how he thinks and pushes the technology, it opened up a new world for him, a new way to make movies, and even though many are bound to reject it, it's awesome that he's the one to do it and keep learning.
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post #75 of 95 Old 11-11-2016, 02:56 PM
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From a technical perspective, the 120 fps 3D presentation worked better than Hobbit at 48 fps. Motion felt much more natural. There were some camera movements that felt uncomfortable in 3D that I ended up closing one eye for. The image was very sharp with lots of detail.

I didn't care for the creative direction he took. Much of it was a very forced POV that I don't expect to translate well to 2D. Even in 3D it felt silly to have a closeup of a face looking and speaking directly at the audience. The way it was lit did not feel very cinematic. There was a lot of spurious activity in the background that in a normal movie you would chalk up to someone accidentally walking through the set. I suspect this was done to make it feel more real and like a live documentary, and less like a theater with actors emoting in front of a still background painting. Even so, I never really felt that the technical capabilities of the presentation were necessary to tell the story.

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post #76 of 95 Old 11-12-2016, 07:53 AM
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It's a shame that only a few select markets will be getting anything other than 24FPS.

What happened to all those theaters that upgraded projectors for the Hobbit in HFR?

Would those projectors not be capable of showing this?
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post #77 of 95 Old 11-12-2016, 10:20 AM
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It's Sony being douches and not having set the infrastructure for the HFR wide release in place, in time. Look at this thread for more info: http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb...002838/p1.html

Maybe Sony got scared of many theaters potentially showing a bad HFR presentation and giving even more bad publicity to the film, they screwed up big time, makes me think that the tensions between Tim Rothman (Sony Pictures boss) & Ang Lee about the HFR + the bad NYFF reception led to this. I mean, they're dumping the movie in only 1100 + releases next week, it's a ridiculously small release, it's doing very well this weekend in 2 theaters though.

@EvLee : Didn't see the movie yet, but Lee wanted to place us firmly in Billy's shoes, hence the POV heavy feel of it, about it not feeling very cinematic to you, are you sure it's not because of the HFR itself? Watching and rewatching the second trailer in top quality on a big screen, in 24 fps obviously, it looks really great imo, in fact, it's the best I've seen the F65 look ever and I'm a film guy. About the spurious activity you mention, Lee said that in HFR, you notice everything so much more, acting and etc, which means that you notice the extras acting. They were figuring a lot of stuff out on the spot, Lee had to rethink how to direct, production designers spoke of how much more scrutiny was going to be placed on everything and they had to sell the whole "fakeness" of it all that much more.

He's still figuring out what works, what doesn't work, and he felt the HFR would lend itself to the story with the contrast between the halftime show, and the war. I'm sure not all of it will work, because it's still new, but it's impressive that he did that, and will keep pushing the technology.
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post #78 of 95 Old 11-12-2016, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
It's a shame that only a few select markets will be getting anything other than 24FPS.

What happened to all those theaters that upgraded projectors for the Hobbit in HFR?

Would those projectors not be capable of showing this?
Not at 120 fps. These presentations are being done using modified Christie Mirage projectors.
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post #79 of 95 Old 11-12-2016, 10:57 AM
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Except that many theaters can show the movie in regular 2D, 2K at 120 fps, or 3D 2K 60 fps.
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post #80 of 95 Old 11-12-2016, 02:33 PM
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I saw the 4k/120fps/3D version at Lincoln Square in NYC today. The detail and clarity of the image is extraordinary but the 120fps didn't work for me. The impression I had was that the movie was both more "live" but also less realistic. I agree with EvLee that it felt more like watching live theater. Now, that's an amazing achievement; that light can be manipulated in a way that photons give the sense of presence you get from being in a room with living, breathing people is mind-boggling. It's the stuff of magic. On the other hand, the 120fps coated everything with that stagey quality you get from live theater; things are live but they don't seem real. It's a strange effect. The scenery looked like sets even when it was on location, the characters seemed like actors wearing costumes, not clothes, and they were exchanging pre-written dialogue, not spontaneous conversation. This impression was reinforced by a couple highly artificial staging choices. The climatic halftime show at a football game features a performance by a well-known girl group. The real-life singers aren't in the movie but Lee includes them using a behind-the-head camera POV, allowing him to use body doubles to stand in for the singers without having to show their faces. It looks incredibly awkward and fake, like something from a Roger Corman movie but without the wink and cheese.

The one sequence where the staginess disappeared was the firefight in Iraq. The battle seems real, visceral and completely engrossing. One viewing isn't enough to say why this sequence worked for me - maybe because the cuts were quicker and the takes were brief? Maybe static dialogue scenes are not a friend to high frame rate cinema?

Finally, thematically, the movie seems like it's 5-8 years late. That's not Ang Lee's fault obviously but the movie seems like an odd duck today.
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post #81 of 95 Old 11-13-2016, 04:48 AM
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From what I read on Film-tech, it seems that 70mm film at 60 fps like Trumbull did actually looks much better than the same thing digitally, I'd be curious to see that. For this though, it'll always be incredibly divisive, Ang has been working in this format for a while, so he's used to it like he said, but everyone else not involved in the making of the film won't be, I remember The Hobbit being a shock at first, and this is going to be on another level beyond that. Our brains are so used to 24 fps, or that framerate as "cinematic", and movie magic, that anything beyond that starts to look alien, and I'm thinking it's going to take a lot of massaging and exposure to 120 fps or 60 for it to go away. I'm sure it won't go away for most people, but when you do get used to HFR, it's hard to go back on certain aspects.

This is going to be like 3D, those who like HFR will see it in HFR, and those who don't can enjoy the 24 fps version. But the dialogue scenes for example, and being able to revel in the faces like Lee said is actually one of the things he loves most about the format, so really, it's all about perception, everyone's eyes are different from one another, and it'll either work or it won't. Maybe he'll decide to only shoot the boxing scenes in 120 fps on Thrilla In Manila, but the hits are really going to have to connect, compared to 24 fps, it's what's exciting though from what he talked about, that he has to up his game because everything is up for scrutiny in 120 fps, you gotta admire Lee's hunger & push for technology and more.
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post #82 of 95 Old 11-13-2016, 06:13 PM
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Except that many theaters can show the movie in regular 2D, 2K at 120 fps, or 3D 2K 60 fps.
What bit depths and color subsamplings would these be at?
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post #83 of 95 Old 11-14-2016, 12:12 AM
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Zero idea, just that tens of thousands of theaters have projectors capable of displaying that.
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post #84 of 95 Old 11-14-2016, 07:36 AM
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Got to see it in 4K/3D/120fps this weekend at the Arclight Cinerama Dome in Hollywood, CA. Honestly, the actors staring right into the camera was more distracting than the high frame rate. It did take me some time to get used to the HFR, but the emotions of the movie pulled me in and I soon wasn't paying attention to the smoother motion. One place where I really appreciated HFR was during pans; there is one at a graveyard that would have been a juddering mess at 24fps (what with those white tombstones) but looked like real life at 120fps. The only other distraction was the lip synch, which seemed slightly off where we were sitting (because the theatre is so big). AVS member FilmMixer confirmed the lip synch problem at that theatre (bumped into him & his wife when they were coming in to see the next show while my friend and I were leaving from the previous show). Finally, the sense of being there in the middle of battle was uncanny. While I personally am not a hundred percent comfortable with HFR, I won't pretend it doesn't have its benefits.

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post #85 of 95 Old 11-15-2016, 09:15 AM
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post #86 of 95 Old 12-20-2016, 06:19 AM
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Bringing the thread back from the dead for amazing news !



First UHD Blu Ray 60 fps movie ever. So exciting !
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post #87 of 95 Old 12-20-2016, 07:33 PM
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...First UHD Blu Ray 60 fps movie ever. So exciting !
That's good news. I assume the Blu-ray (with 3D) is in 24 fps though - whereas 60 fps 3D could have looked more like it looked in the cinema. I wonder if they'll release a 24 fps as well as a 60 fps UHD Blu-ray and see which sell best/gets the best ratings (perhaps it would have cost too much to include both 24 fps and 60 fps UHD versions in the same disc release).

This seems to be the first 50 fps UHD Blu-ray:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-bl...l#post48936441
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post #88 of 95 Old 12-22-2016, 03:11 PM
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Seems clear to me that the UHD disc will only be the 60 fps version. 60 fps 3D in 4K is not possible anyway.
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post #89 of 95 Old 12-23-2016, 12:14 AM
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Seems clear to me that the UHD disc will only be the 60 fps version. 60 fps 3D in 4K is not possible anyway.
You mean it's not possible on UHD Blu-ray? Yes, currently it's not (not until they change the specs - or unless they encoded it side-by-side or something), but Blu-ray is capable of 720p60 3D, which would surely have been closer to how the film was shown in cinemas (ie. the main 120 fps 3D ones) than 1080p24 3D (in terms of the look of the film at least) yet they are most likely encoding the Blu-ray in 1080p24 3D.

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post #90 of 95 Old 12-24-2016, 09:57 AM
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On UHD Blu Ray yes. And they've made it very clear that UHD Blu Ray was a 2D deal only, fine by me. 720p 60fps would be awful, especially considering the source format

I hope they'll push the home release a bit harder, this could interest peeps who wouldn't otherwise have cared about the film to check it out, this is going to be reference quality. It's pretty bold is the 4K disc is indeed 60fps only, and you get 3 different versions of the film, that's pretty awesome.
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120 fps , billy lynn's long halftime walk , hdr

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