Stars Wars - The Last Jedi (December 2017) - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 274 Old 12-16-2017, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
This movie has an "A" CinemaScore. Makes me think there's something not right about that viewers rating on RT.
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Originally Posted by deveng View Post
The dichotomy between 'professional' reviewers and the audience is not really surprizing.
CinemaScore is based on audience exit polls, not professional critics. What Wabo is saying is that it's suspicious that CinemaScore claims the audience loves this movie while Rotten Tomatoes claims they hate it.

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post #62 of 274 Old 12-16-2017, 06:52 PM
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Disappointed. I know The Force Awakens had its detractors, but I'm glad JJ Abrams will be back for Episode 9. I went in a group of 5 -- 3 loved it, the other disliked it more than me. This movie will probably be very divisive.
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post #63 of 274 Old 12-16-2017, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
I'm blaming it on a low midichlorians.

Hmm... Could be onto something there. This is one of the reviews cited on Wikipedia...

Quote:
Richard Brody of The New Yorker wrote, "Despite a few stunning decorative touches... the movie comes off as a work that’s ironed out, flattened down, appallingly purified. Above all, it delivers a terrifyingly calculated consensus storytelling, an artificial universality that is achieved, in part, through express religious references."

(My emphases.)

Medved also liked it...

http://www.michaelmedved.com/movie-r...the-last-jedi/

Maybe "Disneyfied" is a better word?
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post #64 of 274 Old 12-17-2017, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deveng View Post
The dichotomy between 'professional' reviewers and the audience is not really surprizing. The people that will watch the movie on opening weekend, and then take time to post a comment are typically the fans that have invested a lot of time enjoying the star wars expand universe (SWEU). This would include the hundreds of books, comics, cartoons, including the Clone Wars cartoons and Rebels cartoons.

Thus, the movie fails when taken in the context of the SWEU both on content and storytelling. I will not elaborate on this movie any farther for fear of spoilers
Spoiler!

If looking at the movie not from the SWEU, and perhaps not even in context of the 1st 6 movies, then it is a 'decent' movie.
For what it's worth, they specifically address your spoiler tag in Last Jedi. Whether it's a sufficient reason will be up to you.

Personally, I liked it though the issue others have raised that it's a bit overlong is not without it's merits. B to B+ for me.
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post #65 of 274 Old 12-18-2017, 03:53 AM
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I enjoyed it but many didn't. Is this the "review" section for this movie? I expected many more responses.
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post #66 of 274 Old 12-18-2017, 08:04 AM
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They should have renamed this movie "The Loooooong
Spoiler!
Escape" I would say among the worst SW movies, certainly visually and the story line which was littered with borrowed scenes and lines from previous films. One of the worst light saber fights no surprise there since TFA was just as bad in this regard, the humor was cute but often made you wonder if you are watching a different movie like "Spaceballs" they just didn't quiet fit. Very few people in the theater laughed indeed. The only redeeming part was
Spoiler!

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post #67 of 274 Old 12-18-2017, 08:33 AM
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Weird that this has a 93 percent favorable rating on RT, and an 8.0 on IMDB, yet when I read the reviews on IMBD I went through 7 pages without seeing anything above a 6. Lots of ½ and 1's though.
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post #68 of 274 Old 12-18-2017, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post
Weird that this has a 93 percent favorable rating on RT, and an 8.0 on IMDB, yet when I read the reviews on IMBD I went through 7 pages without seeing anything above a 6. Lots of ½ and 1's though.
Haters are always the most vocal critics.

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post #69 of 274 Old 12-18-2017, 10:43 AM
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Haters are always the most vocal critics.

I get that, this just seems like a wider gulf than normal. Look at the reviews on IMBD. It's a substantial number. I just found it odd.
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post #70 of 274 Old 12-18-2017, 11:05 AM
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It's entertaining in the current scripting environment. At over 2 1/2 hours, the beginning was dragging a bit. The light sabre fight has not much to add, neither is some of the dramatic twists and turns.

It's definitely over 6 of 10, but not a 7 material. Might be a minority since I've saw the original series back in the 70's. Episode V is still the best.

It might not be a fair analogy. I enjoyed the first Kingsman but the newer version stinks.

I'm sure Episode VIII will do well in the box office, so does Disney with all those toys.
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post #71 of 274 Old 12-18-2017, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSchmoe007 View Post
"I Am One With the Force and the Force Is With Me" repeated 1,000 times.

This is all I remember from the previous movie. Or was that the one before that?
That character has some very good Kung Fu movies.

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post #72 of 274 Old 12-18-2017, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RolandOG View Post
I saw stories about that and I just don't get it. Some of the twitter comments are insane, like "TLJ ruined the original trilogy for me" and "The prequels were better". I feel like I didn't watch the same movie as them.

I have some minor complaints about the movie but overall I loved it and am looking forward to seeing it a few more times in the theater.
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Originally Posted by Mikazaru View Post
Disappointed. I know The Force Awakens had its detractors, but I'm glad JJ Abrams will be back for Episode 9. I went in a group of 5 -- 3 loved it, the other disliked it more than me. This movie will probably be very divisive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post
They should have renamed this movie "The Loooooong
Spoiler!
Escape" I would say among the worst SW movies, certainly visually and the story line which was littered with borrowed scenes and lines from previous films. One of the worst light saber fights no surprise there since TFA was just as bad in this regard, the humor was cute but often made you wonder if you are watching a different movie like "Spaceballs" they just didn't quiet fit. Very few people in the theater laughed indeed. The only redeeming part was
Spoiler!
Not sure anyone cares about my two bits worth, but here they are.

Photography was very nice. I think I liked the orchestral performance of this score better than TFA. There were satisfying moments and surprises. But...so as to not introduce any spoilers, I will ask all of you who have seen it, and those who have not, several questions.

At the end of TFA, did you not feel that a "new hope" for the resurrection of The Force may exist in this rather unimportant yet well-meaning young woman named Rey?

Did you feel at the end of TFA that Rey's primary motivation to find Luke Skywalker was to resolve her inner conflict with this new feeling described to her by Maz as The Force?

Upon Rey and Luke facing each other at the end of TFA did you not feel anticipation that a relationship of some sort would develop...and that relationship might provide resolution/growth for Rey and redemption/peace for Luke?

At the end of TFA did you feel that Rey was an important character for the saga and next movie?

Now I ask you to all ask yourselves the same questions at the end of The Last Jedi.

The Last Jedi is a fine romp, but what has always made Star Wars special is its heart and soul...deeper than the wizz bangs of violence all around the characters. We invested in the bond that bound characters, whether blood-related or not. The mysterious “Force” was the material of this bond. Whether religion, supernatural, metaphysics, friendship or all of those, it bound characters in deep ways. We humans identify with that on a romantic level. It was the binding glue to the Star Wars franchise...at least on the Skywalker story arc.

We became very attached to the farm boy who became a hero and Jedi Master who redeemed the greatest villain of his time, then for some reason moved into exile. That a spark in a similarly unimportant young person came to light in TFA also got our attention. Rey’s journey eventually to find Luke defined exactly what The Last Jedi should be: The story of Luke and Rey and the galaxy’s future.
Spoiler!






IMHO, the crowning moment in the Star Wars saga was the intense emotional cry of young Luke Skywalker when confronted by the juxtaposition of his hate for Vader and the moment of revelation of his lineage to him. I contend that Hamill’s performance out on that precipice defines the heart of the Star Wars saga and what made it work for so long. He cried out in hopeless emotional and physical agony, chose his fate, yet survived...but with the menacing threat of Vader still intact. It may be the greatest cliffhanger in cinema history.
Spoiler!


So now I ask you to ask yourself the questions again...and tell me where the saga goes from here.
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post #73 of 274 Old 12-18-2017, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

At the end of TFA, did you not feel that a "new hope" for the resurrection of The Force may exist in this rather unimportant yet well-meaning young woman named Rey?
No, what I felt is here we go again....
Quote:
Did you feel at the end of TFA that Rey's primary motivation to find Luke Skywalker was to resolve her inner conflict with this new feeling described to her by Maz as The Force?
Yeah that was pretty obvious, although it seems she wasn't sure of this first.....
Quote:
Upon Rey and Luke facing each other at the end of TFA did you not feel anticipation that a relationship of some sort would develop...
naturally
Quote:
and that relationship might provide resolution/growth for Rey and redemption/peace for Luke?
Yes since this is entire trilogy seems a repeat of previous story lines with minor adjustments.
Quote:
At the end of TFA did you feel that Rey was an important character for the saga and next movie?
is that a trick question?

Quote:
Now I ask you to all ask yourselves the same questions at the end of The Last Jedi.
same answers since the story really circled back where it started.
Quote:
The Last Jedi is a fine romp, but what has always made Star Wars special is its heart and soul...deeper than the wizz bangs of violence all around the characters. We invested in the bond that bound characters, whether blood-related or not. The mysterious “Force” was the material of this bond. Whether religion, supernatural, metaphysics, friendship or all of those, it bound characters in deep ways. We humans identify with that on a romantic level. It was the binding glue to the Star Wars franchise...at least on the Skywalker story arc.


We became very attached to the farm boy who became a hero and Jedi Master who redeemed the greatest villain of his time, then for some reason moved into exile. That a spark in a similarly unimportant young person came to light in TFA also got our attention. Rey’s journey eventually to find Luke defined exactly what The Last Jedi should be: The story of Luke and Rey and the galaxy’s future.
Spoiler!








IMHO, the crowning moment in the Star Wars saga was the intense emotional cry of young Luke Skywalker when confronted by the juxtaposition of his hate for Vader and the moment of revelation of his lineage to him. I contend that Hamill’s performance out on that precipice defines the heart of the Star Wars saga and what made it work for so long. He cried out in hopeless emotional and physical agony, chose his fate, yet survived...but with the menacing threat of Vader still intact. It may be the greatest cliffhanger in cinema history.
Spoiler!


So now I ask you to ask yourself the questions again...and tell me where the saga goes from here.
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post #74 of 274 Old 12-18-2017, 04:09 PM
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No, what I felt is here we go again....

Yeah that was pretty obvious, although it seems she wasn't sure of this first.....
naturally
Yes since this is entire trilogy seems a repeat of previous story lines with minor adjustments.
is that a trick question?

same answers since the story really circled back where it started.


rinse, spin, recycle.
It is a trick question. My point is that the answers to those questions are different at the end of TLJ than they were at the end of TFA.
Spoiler!
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post #75 of 274 Old 12-18-2017, 04:54 PM
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Cam Man,

Given your comments, I'm going to drop this from a 6 to a 5. I did not care for how the new writing of the Force to a comical level nor do I want to invest further in the Rey character. Don't really care much for the next episode either, unless JJ Abrams could perform a miracle. Judging from TFA, I'm not holding my breath.

The Princess Leia piece did not work for me. It's one of those WTF moments. Neither was Luke. It's a popcorn flick.
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post #76 of 274 Old 12-18-2017, 08:23 PM
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6/10


Very disappointed. I may not even buy this on Blu-ray.
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post #77 of 274 Old 12-18-2017, 11:13 PM
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Some discussions I've seen around the web usually use the term "expectations" to explain away the criticism. So this is what I had to say about that:

Why is everyone attributing the negative reactions to "expectations"? THE STORY IS PROBLEMATIC!...it has been since the opening crawl of "The Force Awakens"...this story is flawed not because of something I wanted to see, but because of the way they crafted it:

Spoiler!

Ultimately it feels like movies nowadays are about scenes/situations--the creators want certain scenes in a movie--cool scenes--so they ask writers to come up with reasons for those cool scenes, and the writers end up dropping the ball, because the cooler the scene, the less likely it is to make sense. If I can fix the script, anyone can--the end product just wouldn't have as many crazy or exciting situations to film...it would be a better story though.

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post #78 of 274 Old 12-19-2017, 01:20 AM
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^Really? You're going to give away the entire movie without spoiler tags. That's some selfish nonsense.
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post #79 of 274 Old 12-19-2017, 06:38 AM
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^Really? You're going to give away the entire movie without spoiler tags. That's some selfish nonsense.
Now that the movie is out, why would anyone be here to discuss the movie if they haven't seen it? If someone is afraid of having the story spoiled, they'd probably avoid discussion boards. "Selfish nonsense"? Maybe if I posted in a thread that wasn't about "The Last Jedi".

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post #80 of 274 Old 12-19-2017, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JediMastr View Post
Now that the movie is out, why would anyone be here to discuss the movie if they haven't seen it? If someone is afraid of having the story spoiled, they'd probably avoid discussion boards. "Selfish nonsense"? Maybe if I posted in a thread that wasn't about "The Last Jedi".

No. If you want to discuss the movie with others who have seen the film, then start a new thread "The Last Jedi discussion with spoilers".
Many (including myself) view the Last Jedi thread to see how others that I respect feel about the movie - - spoiler free. That is one reason I respect them.
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post #81 of 274 Old 12-19-2017, 07:57 AM
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No. If you want to discuss the movie with others who have seen the film, then start a new thread "The Last Jedi discussion with spoilers".
Many (including myself) view the Last Jedi thread to see how others that I respect feel about the movie - - spoiler free. That is one reason I respect them.
Ah, so then you don't respect me, even if my reasoning is sound, and the title of this thread doesn't include "no spoilers" or "spoiler free"?

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post #82 of 274 Old 12-19-2017, 08:11 AM
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Ah, so then you don't respect me, even if my reasoning is sound, and the title of this thread doesn't include "no spoilers" or "spoiler free"?
All that you cite in your long post is on the money, IMO. An edit to enclose much of that in spoilers is easy to do. You might consider it.

The last paragraph of your long review post is very important and accurate. I agree that a lot of that is happening. Many filmmakers are not looking at their movie holistically. It's an amusement park ride mentality. Also, the Star Wars franchise has well-established canon from which you should not depart...at least through episode 9.

I agree; huge issue.
Spoiler!
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post #83 of 274 Old 12-19-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JediMastr View Post
Ah, so then you don't respect me, even if my reasoning is sound, and the title of this thread doesn't include "no spoilers" or "spoiler free"?

Please read the thread - - Sticky: All Members Please Read: A Note On SPOILERS at the top of the forum page

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post #84 of 274 Old 12-19-2017, 10:00 AM
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A great review of what's wrong with the movie:
Spoiler!
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post #85 of 274 Old 12-19-2017, 10:45 AM
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I've been a fan of the Star Wars movies since the first one in '77. I didn't dislike this movie, but I'm not in love with it either. I'd give it a rating of 7/10. Here's some of my thoughts (I plagiarized myself a bit from another thread):

Spoiler!

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post #86 of 274 Old 12-19-2017, 11:13 AM
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I've seen some pretty funny YouTube rants about The Last Jedi, but this one was on network TV in Canada. There are spoilers in the video, so don't click if you haven't seen the movie.
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post #87 of 274 Old 12-19-2017, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikazaru View Post
I've seen some pretty funny YouTube rants about The Last Jedi, but this one was on network TV in Canada. There are spoilers in the video, so don't click if you haven't seen the movie.
https://youtu.be/ZQ8ir66M5XU
He was on point...the movie was an insult lol
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post #88 of 274 Old 12-20-2017, 06:40 AM
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I agree with Jedi...even more so after he put how silly it was to digital paper. This movie was an insult, but most of us get blinded by the fact it's Star Wars, which I would have thought would have a bigger impact on audience score versus critics score, but somehow the audience is actually more in tune with how awful this was.

I watched TFA after seeing this and it was a masterpiece in comparison.
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post #89 of 274 Old 12-20-2017, 10:29 AM
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I watched TFA after seeing this and it was a masterpiece in comparison.
Of course it is. It's a reboot of ANH with barely an original thought.

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post #90 of 274 Old 12-20-2017, 11:01 AM
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Amazing that one man could send two of my most beloved franchises in directions that are so completely disappointing for me.

Part of the problem in TLJ is that JJ made such a convoluted movie in TFA that Rian was forced to try and pull it together. Except he might have made a bigger mess. For me, TFA TLJ and the reboot Trek movies all suffer the same flaw. Sloppy writing and direction, they sure are fancy though. Say what you will about Lucas and the Prequels, but they made sense and had real depth to them.
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