Has the Electric Guitar taken a backseat in todays music? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 110 Old 07-07-2019, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by shivaji View Post
I was going to insert this gif into the power cord thread only to find it had closed before I could do so. Doh! So, please disregard this post, just practicing my gif insertions. Nothing to see here. I see I still need to practice.



on another note, I have been rewatching Californication on Netflix, when Dear Mr. Fantasy started playing, always loved that song. Stevie Winwood can play a mean guitar
It was posted ..I responded and that thread was closed...just as I said it would...

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post #32 of 110 Old 07-07-2019, 04:10 PM
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YOU are the problem if you want to listen to more/better GUITAR music....tune away from the URBAN/RAP Music Channels and look elsewhere....there is PLENTY to chose from. Sirius, Music Choice and other Channelized Music Streaming sources provide MANY "tailored" choices via SAT/CABLE/Internet....in particular I like the BRAZILIAN, HAWAIIAN, JAZZ and sometimes SMOOTH JAZZ Music Feeds [although I prefer CD/SACD's for the best QUALITY]....but YOU may prefer COUNTRY....or R&B....or FOLK....or maybe FUNK???
https://www.reviews.com/music-streaming-services
https://www.siriusxm.com/sxm/pdf/xm/channelguide.pdf
http://corporate.musicchoice.com/aff...channel-change
https://musicchoice.com
https://www.accuradio.com [Variety of Internet Radio Feeds]
https://channelstore.roku.com/browse/music [ROKU, et.al. have MANY Music Streaming Choices]
https://tidal.com [TIDAL provides LOSS-LESS FLAC, TRUE HI-FI Music Streaming]
https://www.whathifi.com/us/advice/2...s-and-features [TIDAL Tips & Tricks]
https://www.gottabemobile.com/tidal-...fy-tidalforall [TIDAL vs SPOTIFY]


I first learned to play Ukulele and Guitar when I was a teenager in HAWAII....hence Slack Key Guitar (Ki Ho'alu) was and continues to be one of my most favorite types. If you have never heard it, you MUST give it a chance:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2...l#post57305084

I also particularly like BRAZILIAN....and CLASSICAL Guitar for their OUTSTANDING fingering exercises...and melodic tone:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/44-mo...l#post57620780

Also check out some of the best contemporary JAZZ, ROCK & POP Guitarists:
https://www.guitarworld.com/artists/...h-checking-out
https://www.musicradar.com/news/10-c...u-need-to-hear
https://www.musicradar.com/news/the-...orld-right-now
https://www.musicradar.com/news/13-g...o-hear-in-2018
https://www.roadietuner.com/blog/top...unk-guitarists

And if you ever get out of the house, check out your "local" Live Music Scene, where you WILL Hear and See LOTS of Guitarists....

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post #33 of 110 Old 07-07-2019, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post
It was posted ..I responded and that thread was closed...just as I said it would...

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Yeah, I did see that and your post, but I kept having trouble inserting a live working Gif and by the time I kind of figured it out, it had shut down.
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post #34 of 110 Old 07-07-2019, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by shivaji View Post
Yeah, I did see that and your post, but I kept having trouble inserting a live working Gif and by the time I kind of figured it out, it had shut down.
Yeah...it's there though...

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post #35 of 110 Old 07-07-2019, 04:25 PM
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Thankfully, there are plenty of people still honing their craft in playing the guitar. Though he has been around for some time, Michael Hedges always come to mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaIN...&frags=pl%2Cwn

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post #36 of 110 Old 07-07-2019, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SmittyJS View Post
Guitar sales have been steady, so people are playing even if no one is listening. There is a huge underground guitar audience on YouTube. The most skilled guitarists ever are among today's artists (Guthrie Govan, Buckethead, Tosin Abasi, John Petrucci, etc.). And IMO, the best guitar album in the last thirty years was released in 2016 (Nick Johnston's Remarkably Human).

I doubt guitars will ever return to prominence in pop music. The attention span isn't there for anything but a simple beat. All the monotonous singing shows have made vocals the focus. And rap made it acceptable to create music using no musical talent. But even the synthetically created music in pop music is pretty simplistic.

The trouble with synthetically created music is that it sounds - fake. Maybe it's because I play guitar, but when I hear something that's obviously been enhanced or programmed it just doesn't sound right. It doesn't sound - human. It has no variance. It has no feel.

With today's guitar modeling, plug-ins and effects, you can pretty much make a guitar sound like anything, however you're still limited by the player's skill. It will be a long time before all the techniques of the electric guitar can be accurately programmed. It could be done, but it will be a massive undertaking.
All of those names are considered as GODS in my world.

Couldn't agree more with this. A prime example is Eddie Van Halen's sound on the 1984 track Top Jimmy. This one has a really awesome metallic string tone to it. Love it!

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post #37 of 110 Old 07-07-2019, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman
Not a personal like/dislike of a particular artist.
My posts are not about like/dislike. Some folks just have a odd sound. As stated i like plenty of Pat Metheny stuff. I even like some Robert Fripp stuff..not a lot though


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post #38 of 110 Old 07-07-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by shivaji View Post
Thankfully, there are plenty of people still honing their craft in playing the guitar. Though he has been around for some time, Michael Hedges always come to mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaIN...&frags=pl%2Cwn
I think you mean 'hasn't been around for a long time'
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post #39 of 110 Old 07-07-2019, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Scotth3886 View Post
I think you mean 'hasn't been around for a long time'
lol, in the scheme of things he has not, though I first heard him on a CD I have "Windham Hill-25 years of Guitar," which came out in 2001. That is a few years ago anyways.
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post #40 of 110 Old 07-07-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by shivaji View Post
lol, in the scheme of things he has not, though I first heard him on a CD I have "Windham Hill-25 years of Guitar," which came out in 2001. That is a few years ago anyways.
I wasn't sure if you knew

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hedges
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post #41 of 110 Old 07-07-2019, 05:45 PM
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Stanley Jordan was originally trained in Classical Piano....and then became a self-taught JAZZ Guitarist, mastering the art of "hammering on" and pulling unusual harmonics....so BOTH of his hands are moving furiously up and down the Frets....must be SEEN to understand:
https://www.google.com/search?client...30.VDC-ElC8Ews
Bartok Concerto shows him playing Piano with one hand and Guitar with the other.....

"Hammering On", aka "Touch Technique" explained:
https://www.wikihow.com/Hammer-on-a-Guitar-Note
[Hanspeter Kruesi: Advanced Touch Techniques, note 2 fingers on Right Hand play Harmonics]

Keep watching that channel for more demos....
https://music.apple.com/album/live-p...eter/907878622 [LIVE PURE Album on iTunes]
https://itunes.apple.com/artist/hans...si/id265385062 [Other Apple iTunes by Hanspeter Kruesi]

More "hammering on" Touch Techniques can be seen watching last week's AGT's Guitar Whiz Marcin Patrzalek where he plays a blend of "New Age" [usually very precise] and Flamenco [usually very sloppy] Guitar styles....with frequent Harmonics thrown in for good measure. He's only 18-yo, so he should be quite a sensation a few years from now:
https://www.goldderby.com/article/20...oven-agt-video
BTW: I suspect that he is using a "Slack Key" type Guitar Tuning....where certain strings are loosened so that without holding down any Frets, strumming generates a (usually) Major Chord, rather than garbanzo...

Although he has certainly mastered the "Touch" Technique, Stanley Jordan did NOT invent it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_guitar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapping

===============================================
FYI: In fol. video, Stanley Jordan talks about changing from Standard Guitar Tuning to "P4 Tuning" [Perfect Fourths, normally used with Bass Guitars], wherein you get the SAME Note when holding down the FIFTH Fret on the next smaller string, as you progress through all of the string pairs to tune the guitar. THAT means that the finger locations for any particular Chord are the SAME, whether played on the top 4 strings, the bottom 4 strings or the middle 4 strings. Stanley said he had trouble changing his "mind set" in-between songs and frequently had the "wrong" Guitar in hand. [PS: A Hawaiian Slack Key Guitarist typically plays half a dozen....or MORE different Guitar Tunings (some a closely held family secret)....just an accepted part of the gig....and BTW, most learning is mano a mano without Tablature, so everything is played from Finger Memory for an assumed Tuning Choice....so in live recordings there is always a lot of time for jokes as they retune in-between most songs]:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_fourths_tuning
https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-...4ths-p4-es-041
[P4 explanation begins at about 1:30]

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post #42 of 110 Old 07-07-2019, 06:20 PM
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I have to say, after I quit playing guitar, I don't listen to guitar at all. I expand my view( hearing). I am more into piano, sax, and song writing. Favorite is Dave Grusin.

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post #43 of 110 Old 07-07-2019, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
Electric guitar had been taken a back seat for a long time. E guitar was in full glory in the late 60s to early 70s and has be in the background since with occasionally one or two broke through like Van Halen.

Why do I know? Because I was a guitarist, quite good at that in the 70s standard. But towards the late 70s, I was really going nowhere. I cannot sing, I don't have talent in song writing ( because I cannot sing). That was pretty much the end of the road. Yes, I could play in clubs and all, but that's not a way to have as a career. Luckily in the process of modifying my guitar amp, I found my new passion much more over music......Electronics. Had a full career, and even now that I am retired, I still design amps as hobby.

Here is a recording of a street jam in 1978 where I played the guitar. It was recorded by a small hand held cassette recorder only. Sound quality was really low, but I quit not long after that and was my last tape.

Guitar playing advanced a lot, judge my playing with the standard in the 70s.

Since I retired, I actually designed a noise cancellation circuit that I got a US Patent in 2014. This is a demo of my invention:

I turned my guitar playing into electronics.

No reaction the first time, so tried again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
I have to say, after I quit playing guitar, I don't listen to guitar at all. I expand my view( hearing). I am more into piano, sax, and song writing. Favorite is Dave Grusin.
I, I, I, I. Since when was this thread all about you Alan?

You do realise, don't you, that every thread you enter on AVS does not have to revolve around you, right? Give us a break, please.
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post #44 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by alan0354 View Post
Electric guitar had been taken a back seat for a long time. E guitar was in full glory in the late 60s to early 70s and has be in the background since with occasionally one or two broke through like Van Halen.
I would put it closer to mid/late 80's. That's when all the people who were influenced by Van Halen and Yngwie Malmsteen came out. There was a flood of them and the guitar scene really took off. Metal, glam and hair metal were big and they were all centered on guitar. Specific shred labels like Sharpnel came out. Guitar magazines were all over the racks. Guitar companies like Charvel, Kramer and Jackson suddenly caught fire. With Van Halen and Malmsteen showing the way, skill levels jumped across the board. A lot of the radio-friendly acts, like Bon Jovi, Tom Petty, ZZ Top, Def Leppard, Scorpions, Dokken, Dire Straits and GnR, were guitar-centered. Metallica exploded even without radio play. Even the grunge of the early 90's was guitar-centered. Rap and hip-hop killed guitar. But the most skilled guitarists, en masse, are playing today.

Example:
Guthrie Govan
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA8fzsE7tWU
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post #45 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by SmittyJS View Post
I would put it closer to mid/late 80's. That's when all the people who were influenced by Van Halen and Yngwie Malmsteen came out. There was a flood of them and the guitar scene really took off. Metal, glam and hair metal were big and they were all centered on guitar. Specific shred labels like Sharpnel came out. Guitar magazines were all over the racks. Guitar companies like Charvel, Kramer and Jackson suddenly caught fire. With Van Halen and Malmsteen showing the way, skill levels jumped across the board. A lot of the radio-friendly acts, like Bon Jovi, Tom Petty, ZZ Top, Def Leppard, Scorpions, Dokken, Dire Straits and GnR, were guitar-centered. Metallica exploded even without radio play. Even the grunge of the early 90's was guitar-centered. Rap and hip-hop killed guitar. But the most skilled guitarists, en masse, are playing today.

Example:
Guthrie Govan
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA8fzsE7tWU

Pro Tools has killed musicianship
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post #46 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SmittyJS View Post
I would put it closer to mid/late 80's. That's when all the people who were influenced by Van Halen and Yngwie Malmsteen came out. There was a flood of them and the guitar scene really took off. Metal, glam and hair metal were big and they were all centered on guitar. Specific shred labels like Sharpnel came out. Guitar magazines were all over the racks. Guitar companies like Charvel, Kramer and Jackson suddenly caught fire. With Van Halen and Malmsteen showing the way, skill levels jumped across the board. A lot of the radio-friendly acts, like Bon Jovi, Tom Petty, ZZ Top, Def Leppard, Scorpions, Dokken, Dire Straits and GnR, were guitar-centered. Metallica exploded even without radio play. Even the grunge of the early 90's was guitar-centered. Rap and hip-hop killed guitar. But the most skilled guitarists, en masse, are playing today.

Example:
Guthrie Govan
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA8fzsE7tWU
I like how he started off with "Popcorn."
Not the original version, but the hit version, and the best.
OT, but one of my favorite songs.
Now, I've made it about me.

To bring it back on topic.
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post #47 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Hey Scott,


Not sure if you have seen this, but this is an excellent, short documentary that explains what happened to musicianship.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVME_l4IwII
Thanks, I'll spread this one around.

I agree with every single word he said !!!!
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post #48 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Molon_Labe View Post
Stay out of my playlist please Even pop music of that era had some great guitar riffs i.e Michael Jackson's Dirty Diana with Steve Stevens.
When the grandkids are here, they scroll through my Tidal favorites list looking for something they know and comment that they don't recognize a single piece in it. By design. Also by design that I keep trolling the Harman fanboi threads with 'time for a little music break' with material that's a bit out there and never anything that they've heard before. There's still individualism and creativity, but it's much much harder to find. You now have a Pro Tools 'plug-in' to go boom boom boom and one to go click click click between the booms all at 120 bpm and a plug-in for fake ass hand clap and one for finger snaps, etc etc etc. When it gets to the point when even Madonna complains about the repetitiveness and sameness, it's time to move on folks to something a little new and different.
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post #49 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 06:48 AM
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I checked out top 100 charts of many years. I am pretty shure that it all started in the eighties when there were lots of songs in the charts with horrible synthe sound. Rap also started in the eighties (end seventies). There you have the basis for todays music.

wiki quote:
In the 1980s, the invention of the relatively inexpensive Yamaha DX7 synth made digital synthesizers widely available. 1980s pop and dance music often made heavy use of synthesizers.
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post #50 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 06:59 AM
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I checked out top 100 charts of many years. I am pretty shure that it all started in the eighties when there were lots of songs in the charts with horrible synthe sound. Rap also started in the eighties (end seventies). There you have the basis for todays music.

wiki quote:
In the 1980s, the invention of the relatively inexpensive Yamaha DX7 synth made digital synthesizers widely available. 1980s pop and dance music often made heavy use of synthesizers.
We went from the wonderful creativity and variety up to the mid 70s and then we sorta suffered through a few years of the sameness with disco, but then in 1979 B-52s and a few others of the nearly eight year 'new wave' era burst on the scene with what I expected to be more sameness as disco, but it really wasn't. Wonderful variety, but after that era with popular music, it's just gotten worse, much worse. I generally chalk that up to me becoming just another grumpy old man, but I see that I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
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Originally Posted by Class A View Post
Today many modern artists have an increasing preference for electronic instrumentation. There is a feeling that the Electric Guitar has gone as far as it can and Electric composition is unlimited. Songwriting software can do some excellent work. However can a synthesized guitar equal a Clapton, Hendrix or Duane Allman? The human creativity. Your thoughts and opinions.
That is TOTALLY dependent on the genre in question. Pop music and rap sure electronic instrumentation is WAY more popular. But for things like Rock, Country, Jazz, etc. nothing can replace a electric or acoustic guitar. No synth can replace the feel and touch of a human directly interacting with the strings. The pressure they put on the frets, the force and type of pick the strum with, you can't replicate that electronically.
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post #52 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
I checked out top 100 charts of many years. I am pretty shure that it all started in the eighties when there were lots of songs in the charts with horrible synthe sound. Rap also started in the eighties (end seventies). There you have the basis for todays music.

wiki quote:
In the 1980s, the invention of the relatively inexpensive Yamaha DX7 synth made digital synthesizers widely available. 1980s pop and dance music often made heavy use of synthesizers.

Started earlier than that with Kraftwerk, Gong and Soft Machine, etc.

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post #53 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
I checked out top 100 charts of many years. I am pretty shure that it all started in the eighties when there were lots of songs in the charts with horrible synthe sound. Rap also started in the eighties (end seventies). There you have the basis for todays music.

wiki quote:
In the 1980s, the invention of the relatively inexpensive Yamaha DX7 synth made digital synthesizers widely available. 1980s pop and dance music often made heavy use of synthesizers.
In defense of the 80's, the synthesizers and electronic drums were primary used as another voicing or instrument not as the sole source of the music (there are exceptions like Thomas Dolby and others). Agreed, it was the beginning of the terrible trend we see today, but there is a difference between an electronic instrument being used to produce some of the sounds vs computers/electronics being used to produce all sounds i.e. sampling and playback through Pro Tools via plugins. I play the drums, and I use drum samples via my electronic kit for practice and loudness control for the neighbors. Even though the sample is the playback of an actual drum being recorded at varying velocity layers, it is void of all the nuances that a real acoustic kit will provide. It will never, ever capture flavor of the licks laid down of drummers like John Bohnam, Steve Smith, Jeff Porcaro, etc. Sadly, we have come very far from the synthesizers and electronic hand clap of Kim Carne's Bettie Davis Eyes to where we are today.
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post #54 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 07:41 AM
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In defense of the 80's, the synthesizers and electronic drums were primary used as another voicing or instrument not as the sole source of the music (there are exceptions like Thomas Dolby and others). Agreed, it was the beginning of the terrible trend we see today, but there is a difference between an electronics being used to produce some of the sounds vs electronics being used to produce all sounds i.e. sampling and playback through Pro Tools via plugins. I play the drums, and I use drum samples via my electronic kit for practice and loudness control for the neighbors. Even though the sample is the playback of an actual drum being recorded at varying velocity layers, it is void of all the nuances that a real acoustic kit will provide. It will never, ever capture flavor of the licks laid down of drummers like John Bohnam, Steve Smith, Jeff Porcaro, etc. Sadly, we have come very far from the synthesizers and electronic hand clap of Kim Carne's Bettie Davis Eyes to where we are today.
Agree.

A difference between the 80s New Wave era (which I thought was quite fun), and now is that you could see those groups live, which isn't so easy now. I saw many of them live, B-52s most of all, so although they used some elements of electronic music, it was no where close to what it's become today. These EDM raves it's the mixer / DJ who is the star. There's almost no need for a human element.
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post #55 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 07:49 AM
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Started earlier than that with Kraftwerk, Gong and Soft Machine, etc.
Yeah Kraftwerk, Giorgio Moroder, the OLD school EDM folks. I still LOVE Moroder from Midtnight Express, Scarface, Neverending Story 1 and 2
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post #56 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 07:57 AM
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(Jazz) Electric Guitar lives all over the world:


Save your money.
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post #57 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 08:07 AM
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Joe Walsh splains it all.
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post #58 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 08:50 AM
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Wonderful variety, but after that era with popular music, it's just gotten worse, much worse. I generally chalk that up to me becoming just another grumpy old man, but I see that I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
Here's the answer to why all today's songs sound the same.

https://nypost.com/2015/10/04/your-f...-by-these-two/
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post #59 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 08:51 AM
 
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Maybe if we gave artists health insurance and a livable wage, we'd have a lot more guitarists making music right now!
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post #60 of 110 Old 07-08-2019, 09:14 AM
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I would put it closer to mid/late 80's. That's when all the people who were influenced by Van Halen and Yngwie Malmsteen came out. There was a flood of them and the guitar scene really took off. Metal, glam and hair metal were big and they were all centered on guitar. Specific shred labels like Sharpnel came out. Guitar magazines were all over the racks. Guitar companies like Charvel, Kramer and Jackson suddenly caught fire. With Van Halen and Malmsteen showing the way, skill levels jumped across the board. A lot of the radio-friendly acts, like Bon Jovi, Tom Petty, ZZ Top, Def Leppard, Scorpions, Dokken, Dire Straits and GnR, were guitar-centered. Metallica exploded even without radio play. Even the grunge of the early 90's was guitar-centered. Rap and hip-hop killed guitar. But the most skilled guitarists, en masse, are playing today.

Example:
Guthrie Govan
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA8fzsE7tWU
Could be, I was completely out at the time. My guitar was in the closet for years. Ha ha, when I said quit, I really mean quit!!! I did not even touch the guitar nor listening to any music until late 90s when I tried to pick up the guitar and played around a little. I even bought two America Standard Strat and a Marshall JCM900. But that did not last long, maybe a few months. I just completely lost interest. I guess I skipped the second coming of the guitarist in the 80s.

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