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post #14251 of 14294 Old 11-30-2019, 06:02 PM
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34 has been stable here, but I have been futzing with the antennas over the last few weeks so perhaps it's not the most reliable indicator. Seems good no matter where I point
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post #14252 of 14294 Old 11-30-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post
I notice now the WVIZ Thompson Repeater in 34 has been useless in the last couple months the signal has diminished, now when I enter 25 on the set it goes to the repeater on 34 first not 35 even though I hid 34.🤔

Token, have you noticed any diminished signal on 34? Or perhaps this is like my reverse effect with foliage on the trees enhancing my signal?
Sony TV? I noticed that they don't handle multiple stations with the same PSIP very well. My uncle's Sony will find WOIO's RF 10 first during a scan, but when it detects their repeater further down, it will override RF 10 instead of creating a second set of channels for their repeater. It sounds like the TV is pointing at the first "25" that it sees, which would be on RF 34. But even when deleted, it should point to WVIZ's RF 35. If the WVIZ repeater used it's RF for the virtual channel as well as the repeater's calls, then things would be less problematic. Depending on the TV's flexibility, the only thing that would correct the problem is performing a re-scan during a time that their repeater isn't coming in for you.

Speaking of repeaters, WOIO's repeater has been a no-show for over a month. When they switched over to RF 18, it came in much stronger and more frequently than RF 24. Now it appears to be less frequent than before the repack. Even my garage TV with it's own antenna doesn't receive their repeater anymore, and even their RF 24 came in better and more often compared to my main antenna.

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post #14253 of 14294 Old 11-30-2019, 08:13 PM
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Tropo this morning delivered WNEP Scranton and WCNY Syracuse here in Akron.

All locals have been stable here, including WCDN-LD 7/53, which is usually right at the decode threshold but seems to decode more reliably now.
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post #14254 of 14294 Old 11-30-2019, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
Sony TV? I noticed that they don't handle multiple stations with the same PSIP very well. My uncle's Sony will find WOIO's RF 10 first during a scan, but when it detects their repeater further down, it will override RF 10 instead of creating a second set of channels for their repeater. It sounds like the TV is pointing at the first "25" that it sees, which would be on RF 34. But even when deleted, it should point to WVIZ's RF 35. If the WVIZ repeater used it's RF for the virtual channel as well as the repeater's calls, then things would be less problematic.
Not a Sony, it's my Zenith 901 Box, I should just delete 34 out of there. After the switch the 34 repeater was actually better than 35 now I no longer get the repeater in anymore, I can simply delete 34 I guess but I currently have it hidden.

When the repeater went to RF 19 it was always available though, when it was on RF 38 it never decoded.
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post #14255 of 14294 Old 12-01-2019, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
Sony TV? I noticed that they don't handle multiple stations with the same PSIP very well. My uncle's Sony will find WOIO's RF 10 first during a scan, but when it detects their repeater further down, it will override RF 10 instead of creating a second set of channels for their repeater. It sounds like the TV is pointing at the first "25" that it sees, which would be on RF 34. But even when deleted, it should point to WVIZ's RF 35. If the WVIZ repeater used it's RF for the virtual channel as well as the repeater's calls, then things would be less problematic. Depending on the TV's flexibility, the only thing that would correct the problem is performing a re-scan during a time that their repeater isn't coming in for you.

Speaking of repeaters, WOIO's repeater has been a no-show for over a month. When they switched over to RF 18, it came in much stronger and more frequently than RF 24. Now it appears to be less frequent than before the repack. Even my garage TV with it's own antenna doesn't receive their repeater anymore, and even their RF 24 came in better and more often compared to my main antenna.
RF 18 seems to be stronger for me than RF24. Just need WBNX to up there power.
Stan
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post #14256 of 14294 Old 12-01-2019, 09:43 AM
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RF 18 seems to be stronger for me than RF24. Just need WBNX to up there power.
Stan
Hmmm... Not quite sure if WOIO did something to the repeater, and I doubt that its W43CZ-D (now W18ES-D) interfering with them as I'm nowhere near their coverage area, which was about the time when I lost them. Oh well, I get WOIO's RF 10 with no issues, so its no big deal.

WBNX is still side-mounted half-way up on the tower. It looks like you'll have to wait until spring until they replace their old top-mounted analog antenna with their main RF 17 repacked antenna. I really wish that WBNX would have taken the opportunity to readjust the pattern for RF 17, especially towards the west where the signal was limited to protect WGTE's analog signal prior to the digital transition. The null towards Erie, PA could go, and one can be applied over Lake Erie to protect Canada. Basically all they need is a light null towards the northwest (to protect CHWI Windsor, ON) and the existing null towards the southeast (to protect WJMB-CD Butler, PA). This would have been beneficial to many viewers as WBNX's main top-mounted signal will cover less ground compared to their former RF 30 signal.

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post #14257 of 14294 Old 12-01-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
Sony TV? I noticed that they don't handle multiple stations with the same PSIP very well. My uncle's Sony will find WOIO's RF 10 first during a scan, but when it detects their repeater further down, it will override RF 10 instead of creating a second set of channels for their repeater. It sounds like the TV is pointing at the first "25" that it sees, which would be on RF 34. But even when deleted, it should point to WVIZ's RF 35. If the WVIZ repeater used it's RF for the virtual channel as well as the repeater's calls, then things would be less problematic. Depending on the TV's flexibility, the only thing that would correct the problem is performing a re-scan during a time that their repeater isn't coming in for you.
Speaking of Sony TV's, mine has a strange bug since WKYC moved to RF19 - If you enter 19 w/o the .1 or .2, then WOIO will be replaced by WKYC on virtual 19.x (and is also still on 3.x), with WOIO wiped out of the TV's memory. The only way to get WOIO back is to do a full re-scan. Entering 10 (or entering the RF channel for any other station) doesn't work.

No other channel behaves this way. For example, entering 17 does not cause WBNX to replace WDLI. And I don't remember this happening when WKYC was on RF17 (but I never watched WDLI when they were religious and usually deleted the channel so I can't swear to it).
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post #14258 of 14294 Old 12-01-2019, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by brianhardy View Post
RF 18 seems to be stronger for me than RF24. Just need WBNX to up there power.
Stan
No problems with 55 up here at all since the switch, are they not on full power?

WOIO came in fine until the last minute of the game as 8 also started pixelating too, leading me to.believe it's external interference, I even turned on my LED 3 way near the set during the game with no effect today 🤔, and usually CFL's & variable LED's will clobber a vhf signal, this is strange.

Edit: correcting the horrific autocorrect.

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post #14259 of 14294 Old 12-01-2019, 06:10 PM
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Speaking of Sony TV's, mine has a strange bug since WKYC moved to RF19 - If you enter 19 w/o the .1 or .2, then WOIO will be replaced by WKYC on virtual 19.x (and is also still on 3.x), with WOIO wiped out of the TV's memory. The only way to get WOIO back is to do a full re-scan. Entering 10 (or entering the RF channel for any other station) doesn't work.
Did you try running a scan without the antenna connected, and then running another scan with it connected? As strange as it sounds, some devices may retain old channel information, even after a complete rescan. I remember FOX 8 had a video about doing this after the digital transition, claiming that some devices keep mapping to their old RF 31 allocation after a rescan.

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post #14260 of 14294 Old 12-01-2019, 08:23 PM
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Did you try running a scan without the antenna connected, and then running another scan with it connected? As strange as it sounds, some devices may retain old channel information, even after a complete rescan. I remember FOX 8 had a video about doing this after the digital transition, claiming that some devices keep mapping to their old RF 31 allocation after a rescan.
It's not an issue with the scan, as rescanning sets up everything OK with 19.x mapped to RF10 as it should be. The problem is when you enter 19 without the .1 or .2, it apparently looks at RF19, sees WKYC there, and due to something unique to WKYC's PSIP, suddenly remaps 19.x to RF19 (with 3.x still mapped to RF19 as well). This is unique to WKYC as entering the channel number without the .x for any other RF channel does not exhibit this behavior* (even for the similar case of 17 where one station's virtual is another station's RF).

* even though entering the channel number without the "dot-subchannel" does not mess up the mapping for channels other than WKYC/WOIO, there is a trick where you can enter the RF channel this way, and see the signal strength on that RF channel (via the diagnostics menu) which is useful for DX-ing. Though you have to rescan to actually SEE the channel (if it's a DX channel not in the tuner's memory).

Last edited by nsa1062; 12-01-2019 at 08:30 PM.
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post #14261 of 14294 Old 12-02-2019, 04:02 AM
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Sony TVs have long been notorious (at least to me) for their odd tuning. I'm not really sure that it's unique to WKYC so much as unique to the fact that WKYC RF channel is now WOIO's virtual channel.

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post #14262 of 14294 Old 12-02-2019, 02:41 PM
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I noticed WIVM-LD Canton has a construction permit to move from 11 to 34 now. That should help them out quite a bit. Although I’m still not sure what they plan to do with the 2 other Canton-area transmitters they have on RF 13 and 27.
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post #14263 of 14294 Old 12-02-2019, 03:50 PM
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I noticed WIVM-LD Canton has a construction permit to move from 11 to 34 now. That should help them out quite a bit. Although I’m still not sure what they plan to do with the 2 other Canton-area transmitters they have on RF 13 and 27.
Use them to redundantly cover the same area as WIVM?

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post #14264 of 14294 Old 12-02-2019, 03:58 PM
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I've never seen this site mentioned here, though kind of vague & possibly dated information the reception reports are rather accurate (or pessimistic) especially for an indoor antenna.

https://nocable.org/

I have NO green channels for my area! 8, 19 (43 which is still listed on 28 but for me was an easy indoor before the move to 10) & the Akron's are in Red.
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post #14265 of 14294 Old 12-02-2019, 04:11 PM
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I've never seen this site mentioned here, though kind of vague & possibly dated information the reception reports are rather accurate (or pessimistic) especially for an indoor antenna.

https://nocable.org/

I have NO green channels for my area! 8, 19 (43 which is still listed on 28 but for me was an easy indoor before the move to 10) & the Akron's are in Red.
Very dated (all RF channels pre-repack and channel-sharing) and very pessimistic, with no green channels at my location, and WJW and WOIO in red (both of which I can easily receive with old rabbit ears in my basement), and no signal on WMFD (which I get nearly 24/7 on my outdoor antenna if pointed in the right direction).

EDIT: WUAB (on old RF28) is red for me as well, even though you could get it with a paperclip. Certainly WKYC and WEWS should be green (they are blowtorches at my location), they are listed as yellow.

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post #14266 of 14294 Old 12-02-2019, 07:34 PM
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Very dated (all RF channels pre-repack and channel-sharing) and very pessimistic, with no green channels at my location, and WJW and WOIO in red (both of which I can easily receive with old rabbit ears in my basement), and no signal on WMFD (which I get nearly 24/7 on my outdoor antenna if pointed in the right direction).

EDIT: WUAB (on old RF28) is red for me as well, even though you could get it with a paperclip. Certainly WKYC and WEWS should be green (they are blowtorches at my location), they are listed as yellow.
For me, it shows 1 bar for both WJW & WOIO, even though both stations come in at full scale. The predictions must be for people who use those paper thin window antennas.

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post #14267 of 14294 Old 12-02-2019, 10:58 PM
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Very dated (all RF channels pre-repack and channel-sharing) and very pessimistic, with no green channels at my location, and WJW and WOIO in red (both of which I can easily receive with old rabbit ears in my basement), and no signal on WMFD (which I get nearly 24/7 on my outdoor antenna if pointed in the right direction).

EDIT: WUAB (on old RF28) is red for me as well, even though you could get it with a paperclip. Certainly WKYC and WEWS should be green (they are blowtorches at my location), they are listed as yellow.
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For me, it shows 1 bar for both WJW & WOIO, even though both stations come in at full scale. The predictions must be for people who use those paper thin window antennas.
Well, it was pretty much spot on for me except for the 43 on rf 28. 🙄
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post #14268 of 14294 Old 12-03-2019, 03:48 PM
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For me, it shows 1 bar for both WJW & WOIO, even though both stations come in at full scale. The predictions must be for people who use those paper thin window antennas.
Speaking of flat antennas, I noticed lately that there are several houses on my street that have them hanging on their windows instead of utilizing a proper outdoor setup for all their devices. At least one appears to be in a different position every time I drive past that particular house. The funny thing is that none of these houses have the antenna pointed towards the transmitters in Parma, so for the most part their strongest signals would be from the Akron stations, with the Cleveland stations being on the weaker side, likely plagued with multipath. I'm sure they all have issues receiving WJW as well as WOIO/WUAB, unless they can maintain a reliable signal from their Akron repeater. They would all have a different opinion about OTA television if they had a good outdoor antenna that could pull in all the Cleveland stations with zero breakups and without fiddling around with antenna placement. Also imagine their surprise when they discover extra channels from the low power stations that the flat antenna couldn't pull in.

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post #14269 of 14294 Old 12-03-2019, 06:39 PM
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For me, it shows 1 bar for both WJW & WOIO, even though both stations come in at full scale. The predictions must be for people who use those paper thin window antennas.
Speaking of flat antennas, I noticed lately that there are several houses on my street that have them hanging on their windows instead of utilizing a proper outdoor setup for all their devices. At least one appears to be in a different position every time I drive past that particular house. The funny thing is that none of these houses have the antenna pointed towards the transmitters in Parma, so for the most part their strongest signals would be from the Akron stations, with the Cleveland stations being on the weaker side, likely plagued with multipath. I'm sure they all have issues receiving WJW as well as WOIO/WUAB, unless they can maintain a reliable signal from their Akron repeater. They would all have a different opinion about OTA television if they had a good outdoor antenna that could pull in all the Cleveland stations with zero breakups and without fiddling around with antenna placement. Also imagine their surprise when they discover extra channels from the low power stations that the flat antenna couldn't pull in.
Everyone should have an outdoor VHF/UHF yagi on a tower.
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post #14270 of 14294 Old 12-04-2019, 02:41 AM
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Everyone should have an outdoor VHF/UHF yagi on a tower.
It's Andrew K centric! 🙂
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post #14271 of 14294 Old 12-04-2019, 04:32 AM
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Everyone should have an outdoor VHF/UHF yagi on a tower.
Everyone should have two outdoor VHF/UHF Yagi's on a tower with A/B switch.
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post #14272 of 14294 Old 12-04-2019, 05:23 AM
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Well if your an old geezer you can't climb up there and mess around with that antenna anymore.
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post #14273 of 14294 Old 12-04-2019, 08:04 AM
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Well if your an old geezer you can't climb up there and mess around with that antenna anymore.
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Well, hire someone then.... tut tut..



I have a hard enough time getting into my attic (let alone getting down out of it) myself.
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post #14274 of 14294 Old 12-04-2019, 01:43 PM
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It's not an issue with the scan, as rescanning sets up everything OK with 19.x mapped to RF10 as it should be. The problem is when you enter 19 without the .1 or .2, it apparently looks at RF19, sees WKYC there, and due to something unique to WKYC's PSIP, suddenly remaps 19.x to RF19 (with 3.x still mapped to RF19 as well). This is unique to WKYC as entering the channel number without the .x for any other RF channel does not exhibit this behavior* (even for the similar case of 17 where one station's virtual is another station's RF).

* even though entering the channel number without the "dot-subchannel" does not mess up the mapping for channels other than WKYC/WOIO, there is a trick where you can enter the RF channel this way, and see the signal strength on that RF channel (via the diagnostics menu) which is useful for DX-ing. Though you have to rescan to actually SEE the channel (if it's a DX channel not in the tuner's memory).
Since my Sony XBR is around ten years old and has analog capability, if I just enter a channel number such as 6 it will show the analog station which in our area is La Mega (which is still on by the way). However, if I were to enter 6.1 or similar, it would go to the digital station. I also use the signal strength meter for digital stations where you can enter directly as you said but that does not show any signal strength if the station is analog. I have had a few issues over the years with channels mapping extra numbers but nothing recently.
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post #14275 of 14294 Old 12-04-2019, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
Speaking of flat antennas, I noticed lately that there are several houses on my street that have them hanging on their windows instead of utilizing a proper outdoor setup for all their devices. At least one appears to be in a different position every time I drive past that particular house. The funny thing is that none of these houses have the antenna pointed towards the transmitters in Parma, so for the most part their strongest signals would be from the Akron stations, with the Cleveland stations being on the weaker side, likely plagued with multipath. I'm sure they all have issues receiving WJW as well as WOIO/WUAB, unless they can maintain a reliable signal from their Akron repeater. They would all have a different opinion about OTA television if they had a good outdoor antenna that could pull in all the Cleveland stations with zero breakups and without fiddling around with antenna placement. Also imagine their surprise when they discover extra channels from the low power stations that the flat antenna couldn't pull in.
It seems that most people are not going to put up a tower or even go up on a roof so they try the easiest method which would be the typical flat amplified antenna. But something like the GE attic antenna 34792, a Clearstream 2V or a Clearstream 4V would be a better choice even if used indoors although you might not be able to hide it behind a tv like the flat antenna which is probably what a lot of individuals try first. Even an old rabbit ears/UHF loop combination would work better than a flat model but they might not want to look at it as was done in the old days.
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post #14276 of 14294 Old 12-04-2019, 05:36 PM
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I put one of those cheapo falt antennas on my bedroom window as a laughable spare and it seems to work ok but I don't check it every day. I get all of the same stations as the super thing on the roof which did surprise me. I believe the flat one has a preamp in it also but I can't remember if I left the amp in or not.
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post #14277 of 14294 Old 12-04-2019, 08:14 PM
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I put one of those cheapo falt antennas on my bedroom window as a laughable spare and it seems to work ok but I don't check it every day. I get all of the same stations as the super thing on the roof which did surprise me. I believe the flat one has a preamp in it also but I can't remember if I left the amp in or not.
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I know Andrew K will disagree with this but depending on your local, in a lot of cases the cheapo antennas may get your job done sufficiently. I wish I had that option myself. 😞
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post #14278 of 14294 Old 12-05-2019, 12:45 AM
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I bought a flatty for shoots and googles.. actually was going to try to install it at my grandpa's house so he could get courttv.. I was not completely appalled by it. In certain spots in my room (single story house, absolutely plagued by interference) it was seeing 8vsb on WEWS/WKYC, and managed to decode WYTV/WFMJ, and almost pulled WYFX. Its just a flexible bow-tie, so really if it was placed decently, it'd likely do the job for pretty much anyone with a reasonable signal.... So basically, people on the west side
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post #14279 of 14294 Old 12-05-2019, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Token Majove View Post
I bought a flatty for shoots and googles.. actually was going to try to install it at my grandpa's house so he could get courttv.. I was not completely appalled by it. In certain spots in my room (single story house, absolutely plagued by interference) it was seeing 8vsb on WEWS/WKYC, and managed to decode WYTV/WFMJ, and almost pulled WYFX. Its just a flexible bow-tie, so really if it was placed decently, it'd likely do the job for pretty much anyone with a reasonable signal.... So basically, people on the west side
My neighbor has a Mohu Leaf in her first floor living room window, I was kind of surprised she occasionally gets one of the DTV America stations (20 or 28 I think) on it. 3,5, a weak 25,55, & 61 No VHF though.
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post #14280 of 14294 Old 12-05-2019, 11:59 AM
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Since my Sony XBR is around ten years old and has analog capability, if I just enter a channel number such as 6 it will show the analog station which in our area is La Mega (which is still on by the way). However, if I were to enter 6.1 or similar, it would go to the digital station. I also use the signal strength meter for digital stations where you can enter directly as you said but that does not show any signal strength if the station is analog. I have had a few issues over the years with channels mapping extra numbers but nothing recently.
My Sony has a toggle between analog and digital, and in digital, entering just a channel number sort-of tunes it to the RF channel (you can see the signal strength but it's too dumb to actually tune in the channel - except for WKYC as previously explained).

Analog is all dead in my area, LaMega's video carrier (3 watts IIRC) is too weak and the audio will not tune with no video signal
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