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post #14281 of 14551 Old 12-05-2019, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post
nothing filed with the FCC in regards to a license to cover. Last thing is a suspension of operations in October. That superceded a construction permit extension to April 15, 2020 to get channel 3 up and running
WGGN Transition Plan progress report from a couple days ago - they apparently are still waiting on tower crew and/or antenna mount.

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...6ecd47cb1a2c83
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post #14282 of 14551 Old 12-05-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post
My Sony has a toggle between analog and digital, and in digital, entering just a channel number sort-of tunes it to the RF channel (you can see the signal strength but it's too dumb to actually tune in the channel - except for WKYC as previously explained).

Analog is all dead in my area, LaMega's video carrier (3 watts IIRC) is too weak and the audio will not tune with no video signal
No toggle on mine. But the tuner is great overall.
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post #14283 of 14551 Old 12-05-2019, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by nsa1062 View Post
My Sony has a toggle between analog and digital, and in digital, entering just a channel number sort-of tunes it to the RF channel (you can see the signal strength but it's too dumb to actually tune in the channel - except for WKYC as previously explained).

Analog is all dead in my area, LaMega's video carrier (3 watts IIRC) is too weak and the audio will not tune with no video signal
My RCA HDTV as well as my RCA CRT with integrated digital tuner (garage TV) both have an analog/digital toggle button, as well as a separate button for the inputs. The RCA HDTV annoyingly has individual tuners where the RCA CRT has them both of them combined. When manually keying in RF channels that are not currently programmed in memory, my Samsung HDTV checks the digital side first, and if it doesn't find a decodible signal, automatically switches over to analog. I assume most TV's do this now if they allow for manual programming.

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post #14284 of 14551 Old 12-06-2019, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
My RCA HDTV as well as my RCA CRT with integrated digital tuner (garage TV) both have an analog/digital toggle button, as well as a separate button for the inputs. The RCA HDTV annoyingly has individual tuners where the RCA CRT has them both of them combined. When manually keying in RF channels that are not currently programmed in memory, my Samsung HDTV checks the digital side first, and if it doesn't find a decodible signal, automatically switches over to analog. I assume most TV's do this now if they allow for manual programming.
That RCA a 20 or 24 flat tube? Selectable would be nice before now Analog is also a thing of the past unless I needed to hook up a video game for an RF signal as there don't seem to be anything readily to go from an RF to composite. I know the reverse composite to RF adapter is available.

Would think the analog timers would be out of production by niw.& Speaking of which do the newer tv's have limitations to.channel 51 now instead of 69?

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post #14285 of 14551 Old 12-06-2019, 07:28 PM
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That RCA a 20 or 24 flat tube?
14.1" flat tube CRT from 2007.

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Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post
Speaking of which do the newer tv's have limitations to.channel 51 now instead of 69?
I was thinking about that. I wonder if future TV's, perhaps those with ATSC 3.0 capability, will be limited to 2-36 for a faster scan. AFAIK, just about every TV and device ranges from 2 to 69, even ones that were built after the digital transition when 52-69 became exclusive to the cellular companies. Personally I would leave it the way it is just in case in a rare event that a cluster of former TV frequencies are reclaimed.

As for analog tuning, I suppose manufactures still include it so that older devices that are strictly RF connected can still be used, like VCR's and game consoles. This may even lead to the analog tuner being limited to a few channels (2, 3 & 4) just for those devices and nothing else. Or perhaps analog tuning will be dropped altogether with ATSC 3.0 compatible devices to maintain the cost for 1.0 compatibility.

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post #14286 of 14551 Old 12-06-2019, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bismarck440 View Post
That RCA a 20 or 24 flat tube? Selectable would be nice before now Analog is also a thing of the past unless I needed to hook up a video game for an RF signal as there don't seem to be anything readily to go from an RF to composite. I know the reverse composite to RF adapter is available.

Would think the analog timers would be out of production by niw.& Speaking of which do the newer tv's have limitations to.channel 51 now instead of 69?
You could use a VCR or older DVD recorder or DVR with an analog tuner to go from an RF signal to composite or s-video connection for that matter.

Last year, I purchased a 24 inch Vizio for a bedroom which has a digital/analog tuner in it and it's even 1080p capable for blu-ray so it's interesting what features some of these tv's have even at a lower price point.
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post #14287 of 14551 Old 12-07-2019, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jkeldo View Post
You could use a VCR or older DVD recorder or DVR with an analog tuner to go from an RF signal to composite or s-video connection for that matter.

Last year, I purchased a 24 inch Vizio for a bedroom which has a digital/analog tuner in it and it's even 1080p capable for blu-ray so it's interesting what features some of these tv's have even at a lower price point.
Actually that is how I run the Zenith 901 through my Westinghouse TV via a VCR (although not HD, the Zenith Tuner is simply more capable than the built in on the Westinghouse) though that setup is very clunky ...I also have to use composite too. Adapters composite to HDMI are very pricy for what they are.

Surprisingly most 32" sets for some reason are or at least were 720p for some reason, while their smaller counterparts got 1080p treatment.
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post #14288 of 14551 Old 12-07-2019, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
14.1" flat tube CRT from 2007.


I was thinking about that. I wonder if future TV's, perhaps those with ATSC 3.0 capability, will be limited to 2-36 for a faster scan. AFAIK, just about every TV and device ranges from 2 to 69, even ones that were built after the digital transition when 52-69 became exclusive to the cellular companies. Personally I would leave it the way it is just in case in a rare event that a cluster of former TV frequencies are reclaimed.

As for analog tuning, I suppose manufactures still include it so that older devices that are strictly RF connected can still be used, like VCR's and game consoles. This may even lead to the analog tuner being limited to a few channels (2, 3 & 4) just for those devices and nothing else. Or perhaps analog tuning will be dropped altogether with ATSC 3.0 compatible devices to maintain the cost for 1.0 compatibility.
I doubtfully think the TV band will be reclaimed, though a carrier could possibly use it for a pay OTA? Once the OTA tv band is gone it's gone, the industry dictates his you will watch tv even with the recent interest in cord cutting. Amongst all things are like that as we may know Ford will no longer produce sedans or coupes, as EVERYONE wants to drive a massive full size pickup with a back seat now.... Being in the market for a small pickup now I find I have to go back 15 years to get what I want.

What happened to channels 70 to 83 as they were seldom used anyway?

You bring up a good point in retaining analog channels 2-4 in sets, though if say that they would rather have us trash out old technology now, ie: 78 rpm records, 8 track tapes even reel to reel, by simply not supporting it.

14, unusual size CRT, I had a 13" in the 70's.
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post #14289 of 14551 Old 12-07-2019, 08:30 AM
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What happened to channels 70 to 83 as they were seldom used anyway?
They were removed back in the mid 80's to be used with cell phones and pagers, which were pretty much luxury items at that time. I believe 70-83 were mainly allocated to translator stations, so that may explain why very few stations ever went up that high.

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post #14290 of 14551 Old 12-07-2019, 01:18 PM
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Actually that is how I run the Zenith 901 through my Westinghouse TV via a VCR (although not HD, the Zenith Tuner is simply more capable than the built in on the Westinghouse) though that setup is very clunky ...I also have to use composite too. Adapters composite to HDMI are very pricy for what they are.

Surprisingly most 32" sets for some reason are or at least were 720p for some reason, while their smaller counterparts got 1080p treatment.
It's good to have some old stuff around when you need to connect things differently as you could pay more for an adapter that might not work any better than using the old equipment.

When I was looking at Best Buy recently, the small 24 inch Vizio was 720p and at the time last year, that similar 24 inch one was the only one they had with 1080p in that size so not sure if it's still available online or the models changed.
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post #14291 of 14551 Old 12-07-2019, 01:34 PM
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When I was looking at Best Buy recently, the small 24 inch Vizio was 720p and at the time last year, that similar 24 inch one was the only one they had with 1080p in that size so not sure if it's still available online or the models changed.
My understanding was that anything smaller than 37" was automatically 720p as there wouldn't be any clarity benefit for a screen that small, unless you're viewing from a few feet away.

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post #14292 of 14551 Old 12-07-2019, 02:21 PM
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My understanding was that anything smaller than 37" was automatically 720p as there wouldn't be any clarity benefit for a screen that small, unless you're viewing from a few feet away.
Not necessarily as here is the one I have:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/vizio-2...?skuId=6032516

Smaller sets don't benefit as much but the clarity of 1080p is still beneficial for something like blu-ray.
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post #14293 of 14551 Old 12-07-2019, 06:35 PM
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They were removed back in the mid 80's to be used with cell phones and pagers, which were pretty much luxury items at that time. I believe 70-83 were mainly allocated to translator stations, so that may explain why very few stations ever went up that high.
The only full-power station I'm aware of operating above channel 69 at the time those channels were being removed from TV use was WBGU in Bowling Green (channel 70). There was one more allotment on channel 77 in New Jersey and a few in Puerto Rico, but they weren't operating stations as far as I know.

As you say, translators were the main stations found on those channels. They didn't work well over any kind of distance, so the rest of the stations that did operate on those channels and hadn't gone out of business had already moved to lower channels. (See WLIO in Lima, as an example.)

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post #14294 of 14551 Old 12-07-2019, 07:55 PM
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The only full-power station I'm aware of operating above channel 69 at the time those channels were being removed from TV use was WBGU in Bowling Green (channel 70). There was one more allotment on channel 77 in New Jersey and a few in Puerto Rico, but they weren't operating stations as far as I know.

As you say, translators were the main stations found on those channels. They didn't work well over any kind of distance, so the rest of the stations that did operate on those channels and hadn't gone out of business had already moved to lower channels. (See WLIO in Lima, as an example.)

- Trip
And according to WFMJ's Wikipedia article, they originally signed on channel 73 in 1953 before moving to 21 a year later. WXTV (now WYTV) then used the former 73 allocation before moving to channel 45 as WKST in 1959 and then to the current 33 allocation in 1962. And of course, WNEO eventually signed on 45 in 1973.

I can't remember, but didn't WVIZ have a translator years ago that was in the 70-83 range?

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post #14295 of 14551 Old 12-08-2019, 02:33 PM
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Last night's tropo delivered WICS Springfield IL and WQRF Rockford IL on the former WGGN RF channel 42. WMYS-LD South Bend also new on RF 28.
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post #14296 of 14551 Old 12-08-2019, 05:32 PM
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And according to WFMJ's Wikipedia article, they originally signed on channel 73 in 1953 before moving to 21 a year later. WXTV (now WYTV) then used the former 73 allocation before moving to channel 45 as WKST in 1959 and then to the current 33 allocation in 1962. And of course, WNEO eventually signed on 45 in 1973.

I can't remember, but didn't WVIZ have a translator years ago that was in the 70-83 range?
The Thompson translator was on 67, Conneaut on 64 they may had moved around before & one on 22 in Gates Mills. I only remember seeing CITY in Toronto on channel 79 back in the early '80's.

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It's good to have some old stuff around when you need to connect things differently as you could pay more for an adapter that might not work any better than using the old equipment.

When I was looking at Best Buy recently, the small 24 inch Vizio was 720p and at the time last year, that similar 24 inch one was the only one they had with 1080p in that size so not sure if it's still available online or the models changed.
My tablet moved the response to this below...

In addition I hate to have a boat anchor to do such a job but in rare occasions I still time shift in the VCR. I can also play the video game through it as you mentioned before, I'm surprised someone hadn't come out with a cheap easy fix for converting RF Out to composite, sort of a reverse video modulator.

Speaking of which, I'm still looking for my Macrovision killer I believe it was lost in the 2006 flood.

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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
They were removed back in the mid 80's to be used with cell phones and pagers, which were pretty much luxury items at that time. I believe 70-83 were mainly allocated to translator stations, so that may explain why very few stations ever went up that high.
I should had known that being a HamOp, that was the controversy over the unblocked 800 mhz scanners at the time tapping in on cell calls.

Strange why they did that with the screen size unless trying to deplete an abundance of 720p 32" panels, that 32" size continues to be hanging around for quite a while. I'm not sure if my 37" was a 720 or 1080, but that was an ideal size for me at the time. I will NEVER buy a set I cannot move around by myself!

Edit: I still consider a mobile phone to be a luxury item, but true the cost of airtime was astronomical at the time.

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post #14297 of 14551 Old 12-09-2019, 04:04 AM
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I'm surprised someone hadn't come out with a cheap easy fix for converting RF Out to composite, sort of a reverse video modulator.
I used to have one of these, I used it because I had a video camera that could only put out composite, and my capture card had a weird issue where the video looked awful over composite, but was fine iver RF.. not sure what it was called or if they still make them.. it was about the same size as an old cable modem, but it worked pretty well. They've definitely made them at some point, might be worth keeping an eye on eBay for one to pop up

Edit: just checked eBay for 'composite to RF', and there's a bunch of em on there, new ones, $15-ish. Even on Amazon, same price.

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post #14298 of 14551 Old 12-09-2019, 06:14 AM
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I used to have one of these, I used it because I had a video camera that could only put out composite, and my capture card had a weird issue where the video looked awful over composite, but was fine over RF.. not sure what it was called or if they still make them.. it was about the same size as an old cable modem, but it worked pretty well. They've definitely made them at some point, might be worth keeping an eye on eBay for one to pop up

Edit: just checked eBay for 'composite to RF', and there's a bunch of em on there, new ones, $15-ish. Even on Amazon, same price.
That's a RF Modulator with an RF 3-4 output. I wanted the reverse.

As jkeldo stated in a prior post, a VCR can generally accomplish this by using it's internal analog tuner picking up the RF on 3 or 4, & outputting via composite (or S) to the TV. but uses up a massive amount of space doing so.

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And according to WFMJ's Wikipedia article, they originally signed on channel 73 in 1953 before moving to 21 a year later. WXTV (now WYTV) then used the former 73 allocation before moving to channel 45 as WKST in 1959 and then to the current 33 allocation in 1962. And of course, WNEO eventually signed on 45 in 1973.
WXTV never used channel 73. They were on 45 as a very weak independent from late 1960-March 1962. By late 1961 they were on from 6-11PM with very cheap syndicated and local programming, showing the same 3-4 movies multiple times a week and rotating different ones out the following week
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post #14300 of 14551 Old 12-09-2019, 08:25 AM
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WXTV never used channel 73. They were on 45 as a very weak independent from late 1960-March 1962. By late 1961 they were on from 6-11PM with very cheap syndicated and local programming, showing the same 3-4 movies multiple times a week and rotating different ones out the following week
Then the Wiki is wrong or I didn't understand it correctly. (The way it was worded was kind of confusing).

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post #14301 of 14551 Old 12-09-2019, 09:12 AM
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And according to WFMJ's Wikipedia article, they originally signed on channel 73 in 1953 before moving to 21 a year later. WXTV (now WYTV) then used the former 73 allocation before moving to channel 45 as WKST in 1959 and then to the current 33 allocation in 1962. And of course, WNEO eventually signed on 45 in 1973.

My predecessors kept a journal going back to 1947. I haven't been in this journal for some time. Actually there were a couple iterations of channels for WFMJ, including (wait for it...) channel 33!. We did go on the air initially and briefly on channel 73 using a 300 foot tower in March of 1953. The pylons for the base and anchor points are still there. We tried to get channel 21 but a company in West Virginia got the construction permit. The journal doesn't give all the details, but there was a transfer of license before the current 1000 foot tower was completed to give us channel 21 in August1954.
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post #14302 of 14551 Old 12-09-2019, 09:58 AM
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My predecessors kept a journal going back to 1947. I haven't been in this journal for some time. Actually there were a couple iterations of channels for WFMJ, including (wait for it...) channel 33!. We did go on the air initially and briefly on channel 73 using a 300 foot tower in March of 1953. The pylons for the base and anchor points are still there. We tried to get channel 21 but a company in West Virginia got the construction permit. The journal doesn't give all the details, but there was a transfer of license before the current 1000 foot tower was completed to give us channel 21 in August1954.
1952, Yet the All-Channel Receiver Act really did not go into effect until 1964.
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That's a RF Modulator with an RF 3-4 output. I wanted the reverse.



As jkeldo stated in a prior post, a VCR can generally accomplish this by using it's internal analog tuner picking up the RF on 3 or 4, & outputting via composite (or S) to the TV. but uses up a massive amount of space doing so.
Ahhhh, so an ntsc tuner with composite/svideo out.. for some reason, those are running $80+ on the 'bay.. VCRs are notably cheaper. Makes very little sense, but I suppose VCRs were common at one point, and standalone ntsc tuners weren't.

Though it's crazy that there's no shortage of ~$10 ntsc tuners with USB output.. technically more complex, but again, economies of scale factoring in....

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post #14304 of 14551 Old 12-09-2019, 12:23 PM
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Ahhhh, so an ntsc tuner with composite/svideo out.. for some reason, those are running $80+ on the 'bay.. VCRs are notably cheaper. Makes very little sense, but I suppose VCRs were common at one point, and standalone ntsc tuners weren't.

Though it's crazy that there's no shortage of ~$10 ntsc tuners with USB output.. technically more complex, but again, economies of scale factoring in....
Would that USB output work on a USB jack on a TV? I think not, those are strictly for either Service modes or Aux power.

And now many sets are not coming with a composite input, strictly HDMI, which requires an additional pricey adapter!
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post #14305 of 14551 Old 12-09-2019, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Token Majove View Post
VCRs are notably cheaper. Makes very little sense, but I suppose VCRs were common at one point, and standalone ntsc tuners weren't.

Though it's crazy that there's no shortage of ~$10 ntsc tuners with USB output.. technically more complex, but again, economies of scale factoring in....
It's very hard to find a decent VCR that's in working condition for a reasonable price nowadays. I stop by the local Goodwills every once in a while to see what they have, and if they have anything, its usually cheaply produced 2000 era VCR's or VCR/DVD units that are all made by Funai. To make matters worse, Funai produced very few stereo/HiFi capable VCRs, so the majority of them are mono only. Anything that is decent or has a DVD recorder built in it is well over $100 used on eBay.

Earlier this year I wanted to transfer some old home movies from VHS-C tapes to DVD's. I bought a moderately priced USB capture card, but I guess my computer wasn't fast enough as MP4 capture had a heavy amount of audio noise (similar to what you hear if the HiFi can't track correctly), and AVI capture had a lot of frame dropouts and skips in it. I switched from the included CyberLink PowerDirector software to Debut Video Capture, and although the capture went smoother, the audio for some reason sounded AM-ish. (Below 10 kHz). Plus it didn't seem to handle the capture device driver correctly as it would occasionally throw BSODs. I eventually asked a neighbor if I could borrow his Magnavox VCR/DVD recorder unit, which he let me do. Although a little less than professional, I managed to transfer my tapes over to DVD.

These Magnavox VCR/DVD units are pretty good for the most part. My only complaint is that encoding could be a bit better. Even at high quality (60 min), there is noticeable MPEG artifacting. Plus the interface from the VCR to DVD recorder appears to be S-Video, which made the transferred tapes look as clean as possible with no composite artifacting, which wouldn't been possible with the capture device unless I had a VCR that could output S-video. I actually did buy one of these Magnavox units back in 2007, mainly because it was one of the first devices available with a digital tuner in it, but I took it back because there was some sort of glitch that sometimes randomly caused the unit to factory reset when powering it on, erasing all settings and the time record schedule. Spent an extra $100 for a Panasonic model, but was displeased by the picture quality of the recorded material and lack of flexibility, so I took that back as well. I decided to wait a while before buying another one, but I never did. Now they are extremely overpriced since VCR's are no longer made anymore. I might see if I can buy my neighbor's VCR/DVD recorder off of him as he hardly uses it anymore.

Newer is not always better.
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post #14306 of 14551 Old 12-09-2019, 01:01 PM
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It's very hard to find a decent VCR that's in working condition for a reasonable price nowadays. I stop by the local Goodwills every once in a while to see what they have, and if they have anything, its usually cheaply produced 2000 era VCR's or VCR/DVD units that are all made by Funai. To make matters worse, Funai produced very few stereo/HiFi capable VCRs, so the majority of them are mono only. Anything that is decent or has a DVD recorder built in it is well over $100 used on eBay.

Earlier this year I wanted to transfer some old home movies from VHS-C tapes to DVD's. I bought a moderately priced USB capture card, but I guess my computer wasn't fast enough as MP4 capture had a heavy amount of audio noise (similar to what you hear if the HiFi can't track correctly), and AVI capture had a lot of frame dropouts and skips in it. I switched from the included CyberLink PowerDirector software to Debut Video Capture, and although the capture went smoother, the audio for some reason sounded AM-ish. (Below 10 kHz). Plus it didn't seem to handle the capture device driver correctly as it would occasionally throw BSODs. I eventually asked a neighbor if I could borrow his Magnavox VCR/DVD recorder unit, which he let me do. Although a little less than professional, I managed to transfer my tapes over to DVD.

These Magnavox VCR/DVD units are pretty good for the most part. My only complaint is that encoding could be a bit better. Even at high quality (60 min), there is noticeable MPEG artifacting. Plus the interface from the VCR to DVD recorder appears to be S-Video, which made the transferred tapes look as clean as possible with no composite artifacting, which wouldn't been possible with the capture device unless I had a VCR that could output S-video. I actually did buy one of these Magnavox units back in 2007, mainly because it was one of the first devices available with a digital tuner in it, but I took it back because there was some sort of glitch that sometimes randomly caused the unit to factory reset when powering it on, erasing all settings and the time record schedule. Spent an extra $100 for a Panasonic model, but was displeased by the picture quality of the recorded material and lack of flexibility, so I took that back as well. I decided to wait a while before buying another one, but I never did. Now they are extremely overpriced since VCR's are no longer made anymore. I might see if I can buy my neighbor's VCR/DVD recorder off of him as he hardly uses it anymore.
Most of the later and some older Magnavox DVD recorders were made by Funai and actually are excellent machines like the MDR867 which I have which can record in high definition to the hard drive for OTA channels. Some of the combo units are also Funai made. I believe Phillips still owns the Magnavox brand but licenses the name to Funai as it has for a long time.
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post #14307 of 14551 Old 12-09-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
It's very hard to find a decent VCR that's in working condition for a reasonable price nowadays. I stop by the local Goodwills every once in a while to see what they have, and if they have anything, its usually cheaply produced 2000 era VCR's or VCR/DVD units that are all made by Funai. To make matters worse, Funai produced very few stereo/HiFi capable VCRs, so the majority of them are mono only. Anything that is decent or has a DVD recorder built in it is well over $100 used on eBay.

Earlier this year I wanted to transfer some old home movies from VHS-C tapes to DVD's. I bought a moderately priced USB capture card, but I guess my computer wasn't fast enough as MP4 capture had a heavy amount of audio noise (similar to what you hear if the HiFi can't track correctly), and AVI capture had a lot of frame dropouts and skips in it. I switched from the included CyberLink PowerDirector software to Debut Video Capture, and although the capture went smoother, the audio for some reason sounded AM-ish. (Below 10 kHz). Plus it didn't seem to handle the capture device driver correctly as it would occasionally throw BSODs. I eventually asked a neighbor if I could borrow his Magnavox VCR/DVD recorder unit, which he let me do. Although a little less than professional, I managed to transfer my tapes over to DVD.
Slim pickings now @ the Goodwill on VCR's. If they accepted a tape & played I took my chances, my Sony spits out or hangs up in Eject & my Panasonic blacks out the video, so both on their last legs.

I bought one of those USB to Composite years ago (2013), but yet to hook it up, so no good for dubbing to DVD?

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Most of the later and some older Magnavox DVD recorders were made by Funai and actually are excellent machines like the MDR867 which I have which can record in high definition to the hard drive for OTA channels. Some of the combo units are also Funai made. I believe Phillips still owns the Magnavox brand but licenses the name to Funai as it has for a long time.
My Sylvania is a Funai & I believe it is a stereo unit.
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post #14308 of 14551 Old 12-09-2019, 03:24 PM
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Slim pickings now @ the Goodwill on VCR's. If they accepted a tape & played I took my chances, my Sony spits out or hangs up in Eject & my Panasonic blacks out the video, so both on their last legs.

I bought one of those USB to Composite years ago (2013), but yet to hook it up, so no good for dubbing to DVD?

My Sylvania is a Funai & I believe it is a stereo unit.
Yep. I've been very disappointed in their selection of electronics within the last few years. Not to mention the high prices for damaged, missing, or low quality stuff. One location near me had a Sony Beta player a few years ago that had the front panel buttons falling out, and they wanted $50 for it. OTOH, I've bought 3 Dell flat panel monitors each under $10, which I thought was a bargain as they usually sell for around $20.

One of the things that annoys the heck out of me with Goodwill is when I find an audio CD with no disc in it. Either customers are stealing the disc right out of the case or the donator forgot to include the disc, which Goodwill should check before placing it on the sales floor. After complaining to one location about missing discs, they moved the media section to the front of the store where the people at the cash registers can keep an eye on them. Then later they decided to take it up a notch and package-tape the cases shut so that the discs don't end up missing/stolen, which didn't sit well with me because I want to check the discs for heavy damage before buying them.

Panasonic VCRs in my experience were infamous for blanking out the picture when the slightest amount of static was present, even when the tape played fairly well in other machines. Really wished there was an option to disable it.

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post #14309 of 14551 Old 12-09-2019, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by snowdog 88 View Post
Earlier this year I wanted to transfer some old home movies from VHS-C tapes to DVD's. I bought a moderately priced USB capture card, but I guess my computer wasn't fast enough as MP4 capture had a heavy amount of audio noise (similar to what you hear if the HiFi can't track correctly), and AVI capture had a lot of frame dropouts and skips in it.

These Magnavox VCR/DVD units are pretty good for the most part. My only complaint is that encoding could be a bit better. Even at high quality (60 min), there is noticeable MPEG artifacting. Plus the interface from the VCR to DVD recorder appears to be S-Video, which made the transferred tapes look as clean as possible with no composite artifacting, which wouldn't been possible with the capture device unless I had a VCR that could output S-video.
Ah, this is my wheelhouse... A big problem with most capture cards is a few things: bus speed, bit depth, and yeah, the CPU as well (less of an issue since about 2013ish since the CPUs have dedicated encoders built in). A lot of the cards use usb2, which is just not sufficient. Some cards try to overcome this by encoding inside of the device itself (usually very poorly) or using a form of format stripping to squeeze it down.

There are a few options... A PCIe card is probably the best bet. They're cheap, won't be bus limited, and are good quality. I had a 10bit PCI card back in 2004, got it for a little over $50. It wasn't great but it did the job. I knew what I was getting, but was also broke so kinda had to make the sacrifice.

Another option is a usb3 dongle. Reviews are key, the ADCs are the key, and the cheap ones really hurt the quality. You can likely find a good dongle for under $100, might even get one that have actual encoders built-in, so you don't have to use the CPU to do it.. though CPU encoders are the best quality, so I'd do a lossless transfer and encode after the fact in avidemux or something.. be sure to deinterlace (if avidemux, use yadif2) and use temporal cleaning... Vhs does some hacky things with color information that can look awful when converted to digital, and temporal cleaning goes a long way towards correcting that.. I'm not usually big on filtering things, as it's usually removing information to give the illusion of clarity, but that is one I always use for vhs copies. It basically takes the differing color information from frame to frame and averages it out. Since VHS alternates color encoding between frames, it makes each frame contain the colors the VHS is trying to emulate by rapidly switching colors displayed... And since modern encoding works by trying to carry similar data between frames, having each frame jumping between colors is havoc... Running temporal smoothing saves a lot of bits in the final file, looks better overall, and there is very minimal tradeoff.

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post #14310 of 14551 Old 12-09-2019, 04:48 PM
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Yep. I've been very disappointed in their selection of electronics within the last few years. Not to mention the high prices for damaged, missing, or low quality stuff. One location near me had a Sony Beta player a few years ago that had the front panel buttons falling out, and they wanted $50 for it. OTOH, I've bought 3 Dell flat panel monitors each under $10, which I thought was a bargain as they usually sell for around $20.

One of the things that annoys the heck out of me with Goodwill is when I find an audio CD with no disc in it. Either customers are stealing the disc right out of the case or the donator forgot to include the disc, which Goodwill should check before placing it on the sales floor. After complaining to one location about missing discs, they moved the media section to the front of the store where the people at the cash registers can keep an eye on them. Then later they decided to take it up a notch and package-tape the cases shut so that the discs don't end up missing/stolen, which didn't sit well with me because I want to check the discs for heavy damage before buying them.

Panasonic VCRs in my experience were infamous for blanking out the picture when the slightest amount of static was present, even when the tape played fairly well in other machines. Really wished there was an option to disable it.
Yes they have really crazy pricing @ the Goodwill, & noted the same things you are seeing, but like you I also picked up Dell Flat monitor triplets too. also when dad needed to replace his CRT monitor, I found a 17" 4x3 Sony LCD (similar to my 15), for $12. I have got high end DVD players for < $10, but when a Blue Ray player is there it's like > $30. Also found a missing Sony remote with nothing it would go to, possibly got separated from it's mate, no price, I got it for $1.

I think they are stealing the media...


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Another option is a usb3 dongle. Reviews are key, the ADCs are the key, and the cheap ones really hurt the quality. You can likely find a good dongle for under $100, might even get one that have actual encoders built-in, so you don't have to use the CPU to do it.. though CPU encoders are the best quality, so I'd do a lossless transfer and encode after the fact in avidemux or something.. be sure to deinterlace (if avidemux, use yadif2) and use temporal cleaning... Vhs does some hacky things with color information that can look awful when converted to digital, and temporal cleaning goes a long way towards correcting that.. I'm not usually big on filtering things, as it's usually removing information to give the illusion of clarity, but that is one I always use for vhs copies. It basically takes the differing color information from frame to frame and averages it out. Since VHS alternates color encoding between frames, it makes each frame contain the colors the VHS is trying to emulate by rapidly switching colors displayed... And since modern encoding works by trying to carry similar data between frames, having each frame jumping between colors is havoc... Running temporal smoothing saves a lot of bits in the final file, looks better overall, and there is very minimal tradeoff.
Woah, English please! I would like to transfer over a few things from VHS to a DVD & bought one of those Composite to USB deals, but later was told they did a horrible job. Well let's face it, it's VHS & it's not going to be pristine, & would think it couldn't be all that much worse than the VHS Tape.... or could it? I copied something in LP mode over to DVD on one of those DVD Recorders, yet on my 20" CRT, I cannot tell the difference. Same goes for my Reel to Reel, need to go through a box of tapes & see what I really want, digitize & off that Reel to Reel deck.
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