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post #3841 of 3869 Old 08-18-2019, 08:56 AM
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Ion

ION has left KHRR 40.3 and moved to KOLD 13.4. Great news for me since KHRR is too weak at my location to watch but KOLD is 100%.

Chuck
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post #3842 of 3869 Old 08-19-2019, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
ION has left KHRR 40.3 and moved to KOLD 13.4. Great news for me since KHRR is too weak at my location to watch but KOLD is 100%.

Caught that Saturday night when I was down in the Old Pueblo. KHRR has channel 40.3 still up with a graphic informing viewers that effective immediately, Ion is no longer on channel 40.3 and that they should contact Ion for more information.


I wonder what they'll put in its place, if anything? In Phoenix, the Telemundo station runs TeleXitos on .2 and Cozi TV on .3, even though Cozi TV is also on the CBS channel.
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post #3843 of 3869 Old 08-20-2019, 08:10 AM
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I wonder what they'll put in its place, if anything? In Phoenix, the Telemundo station runs TeleXitos on .2 and Cozi TV on .3, even though Cozi TV is also on the CBS channel.

I don't know but I hope it's nothing I want to watch since KHRR is basically a no go here. Too bad KHRR isn't on Mt. Bigelow with all the other stations.

My TiVo added sub channels 4-4 and 4-5 to KVOA. There is no programming on either. I wonder what's going on there? One HD channel and 4 SD channels? Seems like that might be pushing it a bit.

Chuck
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post #3844 of 3869 Old 08-20-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post
My TiVo added sub channels 4-4 and 4-5 to KVOA. There is no programming on either. I wonder what's going on there? One HD channel and 4 SD channels? Seems like that might be pushing it a bit.

That must have just happened because neither subchannel was there Saturday night. I know that KVOA is slated to carry the new CBS lifestyle network, DABL, on channel 4.4. The network debuts Sept. 9, but I don't know when KVOA plans to start airing it. Sounds like they might be preparing to launch with the network. I haven't heard anything about a channel 4.5 yet.


I just recently saw an article about how encoder technology is improving to the point that a 1 HD / 4 SD setup is doable, but we'll see, I guess.


Edit: Found the article - https://tvnewscheck.com/article/2372...e-tv-capacity/

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post #3845 of 3869 Old 09-21-2019, 03:07 AM
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Interesting goings on, live in the Bigelow Shadow area in Marana NW, so no 11 or 18, had poor 4 and sometimes poor 13. Been using a Direct TV DB-8 (Approx 20')for 2years now 161 & 219 compass, primarily a UHF Antenna. Bought their VHF added on and added a reflector to it, mounted at about 28' on tower, tied it into the DB-8 and aimed it direct at flat topped mountain where I could see towers on top (Approx 7 miles), did the trick, perfect 4 and 13. With the moves and adding channels, it was worth it, would have lost Grit to poor quality on 4, now crystal clear. Hopefully they will fill the abandoned Grit and Ion with something else and maybe 11 will add something at one of these sites. Saved approx. $3,000 so far since cutting the cord on TV (Had Dish, approx. $189, now Hulu, $13 and OTA), Phone (had AT & T, $69, now Ooma, $4.88) and getting Xfinity $66.99 had Hughes approx.$90. They had kept increasing cost till it pissed me off enough to look into OTA, got tired of having to call them to drop rates every few months. I used to work for Cable TV here in 70's and remember in monthly Staff Meetings they would post the "Chump's" Max Monthly Rate Increase Number From The National CATV Ass. It was the max rate increase where your Pissed off Cust's that disconnected would be covered by the increased revenue of the Increase Fee's!
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post #3846 of 3869 Old 09-22-2019, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by xichlo View Post
Interesting goings on, live in the Bigelow Shadow area in Marana NW

Can you receive the Phoenix stations? I ran a search in Rabbitears from the middle of the "shadow" at Hwy 10 and the signal levels for the Phoenix stations were pretty good.

Chuck

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post #3847 of 3869 Old 09-22-2019, 11:48 AM
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Can you receive the Phoenix stations? I ran a search in Rabbitears from the middle of the "shadow" at Hwy 10 and the signal levels for the Phoenix stations were pretty good.

Chuck
Never tried, we are about middle and 1-2 miles from I-10 might look that link up and see which chan's might make it and if they are ones we'd want give it a shot. I'm almost 72 so climbing that tower in 110 days gets old quick, made 3 multi hour trips in July and Aug but with all the moving around, the Engineer's had signal down or tuning so waited till other day to move and fine tune the VHF antenna. Our Tower is only 30+ feet so don't know what Rabbit will say our luck will be.
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post #3848 of 3869 Old 09-22-2019, 12:07 PM
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Just looked it up, just shows what I have, even shows a few as poor that I am getting great. I like my DB-8 and the VHF add on from direct Antenna, most UHF are 70% and 20+ db, KVOA VHF is 50% and 22 db, KOLD VHF is 62% and 26 db. All chan are picture perfect and solid now, KVOA used to break up bad especially hot or weathery days, KOLD did also some what and even KGUN UHF did in really bad weather, CW has the strongest, best signal.
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post #3849 of 3869 Old 09-22-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by xichlo View Post
Just looked it up, just shows what I have, even shows a few as poor that I am getting great. I like my DB-8 and the VHF add on from direct Antenna, most UHF are 70% and 20+ db, KVOA VHF is 50% and 22 db, KOLD VHF is 62% and 26 db. All chan are picture perfect and solid now, KVOA used to break up bad especially hot or weathery days, KOLD did also some what and even KGUN UHF did in really bad weather, CW has the strongest, best signal.
I ran a report in the middle of Marana 1.5 miles west of the the freeway and got the same results as you did. No Phoenix stations. Picacho Peak is nearly dead center in the Mt. Bigelow shadow. Marana is just outside the shadow and signals are weak but not impossible, certainly no worse than I have here outside of Sierra Vista. It was worth a look but you're not quite far enough north for Phoenix.

I pay more attention to the Noise Margins in the table and not the verbiage which I think is too conservative. You should be able to receive stations with a Noise Margin of +10 or higher without much difficulty unless you have other reception issues. I have a little article on Noise Margins that has a color coded table with descriptions.

http://www.aa6g.org/DTV/Reception/tvfool_nm.html
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post #3850 of 3869 Old 09-22-2019, 10:39 PM
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I even tried a DB-4 @15'-20'-25' and 30' with no signal or pic on 19 UHF or 25 UHF, KTTU or KMSB. Heck we now have 25 working stations and Grit-13-3 and ION 40-3 that have Info placards saying they moved that will eventually get new programing. Plus Streaming free Tubi, Crackle, Pluto, Zumu, Kanapy and the $13 Hulu, so we have something great on all the time, a thousand times better then what available on Pay TV for hundreds of Dollars a month. Used to work for SSVEC as a Linemen in the 70's-80's out of Sierra Vista Office, there was a guy, forget his name in Hereford who would butcher our 4H animals from the Auctions. Really liked SV then, passed through a few times over the years, man its grown
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post #3851 of 3869 Old 09-23-2019, 04:08 PM
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Heck we now have 25 working stations and Grit-13-3 and ION 40-3 that have Info placards saying they moved that will eventually get new programing.

There have been some changes you may be unaware of.

KVOA 4-4 DABL
KVOA 4-5 Grit

KOLD 13-4 ION

K35OU 21-2 HSN2
K35OU 21-3 QVC
K35OU 21-4 QVC2
K35OU 21-5 QVC3
K35OU 21-6 DABL

The new K35OU sub channels are not yet on the air even though the PSIP info shows them. They just showed up in my TiVo channel list today. I see color bars on most of them.

I'm happy to see ION on KOLD since KHRR is extremely difficult to receive here... 81 miles over a 2 edge path. K35OU is very weak here because it only has 450 watts ERP in my direction.

I can't imagine why DABL is scheduled to be shown on K35OU since it's already on KVOA with far more power at the same transmitter site.

Chuck
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post #3852 of 3869 Old 10-18-2019, 11:10 AM
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Heres a new one, thers a lot of changing going on in Tucson Market so I rescan every once in a while. So yesterday rescanned my "Tivo", only got 23 channels, missing the 4 "13's" 13-1 thru 13-4, tried everything to see what's going on, nothing? I checked the same Antenna feed off the splitter directly off the Sony TV tuner, Channel 13 was there with a great pic. Then thought maybe since Tivo is only Digital, channel 9 had had Transmitter problem recently, maybe KOLD had gone analog. OK next tried to rescan on the Sony Tuner, erased existing Stations and rescanned as it differentiates Analog and Digital in the scan info, no 13! So in the Tivo Diagnostics I can get the Channel 13 signal info but no Video; 13-1, 213000 KHz, 8-vsb, "Signal Lock Yes", 'NO program LOCK", Signal Strength 60%, 24dB, "Tune State Tuned Success", "Tune State In Progress, "Time since Tune Start and Since Signal Lock are in seconds and continues rolling non stop", Pending Tune Status- No Tune Status Pending

So the Signal is there and good but no audio or video? My guess is there is some kind of information on 13's info bar that triggers Tivo or TV's locking in that was removed or not added in again when the "Engineers" were tuning or play with the Transmitters?
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post #3853 of 3869 Old 10-19-2019, 09:04 AM
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maybe KOLD had gone analog.

The FCC is not allowing digital stations to convert back to analog. There are no longer any analog stations on the air in the Tucson area. The last one was K20FO but it's off and replaced by K28OY. I believe all low power analog stations have to be off the air by May 2021, a year following the completion of the repack.


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So the Signal is there and good but no audio or video? My guess is there is some kind of information on 13's info bar that triggers Tivo or TV's locking in that was removed or not added in again when the "Engineers" were tuning or play with the Transmitters?

It's probably just some issue with the translator on RF13 or the link. I can't receive that here so I can't check it. KOLD RF 32 is fine.

Chuck
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post #3854 of 3869 Old 10-19-2019, 09:38 AM
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I called their Engineering and gave him this info, he said they had not done anything but agreed they had a tick on Info Bar. that evening 13 was back on Tivo and Sony Tuner, he probably checked and found a switch off on Mod.
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post #3855 of 3869 Old 10-20-2019, 01:14 AM
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There are no longer any analog stations on the air in the Tucson area. The last one was K20FO but it's off and replaced by K28OY. I believe all low power analog stations have to be off the air by May 2021, a year following the completion of the repack.

Actually, unless there has been a change since August, KPCE-LP is still blasting 108 kW of glorious Daystar programming in analog on channel 29 from the Tucson Mtns.
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post #3856 of 3869 Old 10-20-2019, 09:28 AM
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Actually, unless there has been a change since August, KPCE-LP is still blasting 108 kW of glorious Daystar programming in analog on channel 29 from the Tucson Mtns.

Upon careful examination I can see a trace of its video & audio carriers on the spectrum analyzer. It's mixed up with the very weak and unstable signal from KTAZ also on RF 29. See attached analyzer trace. I can't find a Construction Permit for a KPCE digital station. Maybe they'll just shut down when LP analog sunset occurs.

I can see the K21GC video carrier poking out of KWBA on RF 21 if I point the antenna in that direction. I didn't consider that to be in the Tucson area.

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post #3857 of 3869 Old 10-20-2019, 12:56 PM
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Yes before I added a VHF 29 came in fuzzy, its as good as 4 and 13 now. Don't ask me how it improved a UHF Signal, maybe they fixed something about the same time. I don't have it in my line up but when rescan on the tv it is there, Tivo only does Didital. There's a bunch of signal in the TV Bands, especially 46-X but no video, don't know if these are private carriers or what but I flip through them to see if theres video occasionally to see

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post #3858 of 3869 Old 11-20-2019, 09:49 PM
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KGUN is off the air tonight and KVOA and KMSB are down about 10 dB. The other stations are normal. I wonder what's going on? Storm issues?

Chuck
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post #3859 of 3869 Old 11-21-2019, 06:41 AM
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It wouldn't surprise me.
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post #3860 of 3869 Old 11-21-2019, 07:32 AM
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KGUN is back this morning, KVOA is back to full strength but KMSB is still way down, about 15 dB.

Edit: KMSB was back to normal a little after 1 pm today.

Chuck

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post #3861 of 3869 Old 11-29-2019, 03:41 AM
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Grit has been discontinued on 13.3. It is now exclusively on 4.5.
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post #3862 of 3869 Old 12-02-2019, 08:45 PM
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OK, whats this "Circle" taking over 13.3 the old Grit station? Also where is "This" going from 58.3? Be nice if they would give notice of all these changes, give info of upcoming events and update the Program Guides like Tivo
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post #3863 of 3869 Old 12-02-2019, 10:15 PM
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OK, whats this "Circle" taking over 13.3 the old Grit station?
https://inthecircle.com/

Its a country music channel and Gray is part owner of it (if I recall) so most Gray owned stations will get it

The linear 24/7 network will begin in early 2020 with TV stations owned by Gray TV.
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post #3864 of 3869 Old 12-02-2019, 11:52 PM
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OK, whats this "Circle" taking over 13.3 the old Grit station? Also where is "This" going from 58.3? Be nice if they would give notice of all these changes, give info of upcoming events and update the Program Guides like Tivo

I am told that ThisTV has replaced Estrella TV on channel 18.2.
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post #3865 of 3869 Old 12-03-2019, 12:18 AM
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I am told that ThisTV has replaced Estrella TV on channel 18.2.
That's nice, we don't get that or 11 here
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post #3866 of 3869 Old 12-03-2019, 11:40 PM
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That's nice, we don't get that or 11 here

You must be in Marana or Oro Valley then. In the analog days, both were receivable, as KMSB 11 broadcast from Mt. Hopkins, so that it could reach Nogales (which was its city of license until the early 1990s) and KTTU 18 broadcast from the Tucson Mts. Management must assume that Marana and Oro Valley residents all get their TV signals via cable or satellite.
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post #3867 of 3869 Old 12-04-2019, 02:25 AM
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LOL, I used to work for SV CATV back in the day, we had a Mountain Site in Greaterville to shoot KMSB signal to our SV Head End, that we serviced monthly to check the Propane and Diesel Generators, Mods and stuff. Once in a while we went into Tucson to check our gear at their Studios, talk about a "Clown" outfit back then, the "Herbs" were heavy in the air. Orange Grove Shannon Area, Marana, we're all "Rich Snoots" here, lol, Cutting the Cord was the best thing we've done in years, between the Dish, $199, Hugh's $90, AT&T and Century, $69. We've saved I'm guessing about $4,000 or more now not even counting the rate creep increases every few months we were getting. we are retired, fixed income now so it was killing us. Just wish all this "Rescan" junk would get done, between the Program changes, Signal garbage and the "Tech's" constant retuning, Equipment dyeing, ECT.
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post #3868 of 3869 Old 12-04-2019, 07:52 AM
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If ATSC 3.0 lives up to its claim of multipath tolerance (and it's a big "if" if you read the ATSC 3.0 forum) you may find yourself in luck. They're doing a lot of 3.0 testing here in Phoenix and plan to test Single Frequency Networks (SFN, also called Distributed Transmission System - DTS - by the FCC). They're testing 3.0 SFNs in Dallas now.


It means that the stations could run their main signals off Mt. Bigelow and another from the Tucson Mtns.or Tumamoc Hill without interfering with the main signal. Since KVOA, KUAT, KGUN, KOLD, KUVE and KFTU are already running signals on separate channels, they could shut down those second channels and run everything on the main channels. KMSB and KTTU could put second signals up to reach the NW side. The cord cutting trend could make that worthwhile.


Who knows; maybe I'm just overly optimistic. The majority opinion on the ATSC 3.0 forum thinks so.
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post #3869 of 3869 Old Yesterday, 08:53 AM
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Whatever they decide to do with ATSC 3.0 I hope they don't forget about us on the fringes. Except for KHRR I can't receive any of those stations transmitting from relatively low elevation sites in Tucson. KHRR is not very strong and tends to be unstable. Signals from Mt. Bigelow are good and reception is reliable except for KMSB and KUVE which are competing with stations in Cananea Mexico. I've finally found a combination of antenna and location that receives KMSB most of the time but the SNR is low even though the Noise Margin is high. I put the antennas on my ham radio tower. Turns out higher is 6-10 dB better in most cases despite what the prediction programs say. I've attached a Noise Margin summary with all the stations I can except for the 6 Mexican stations. The UHF LPDA is at 67' in the antenna picture.

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