Buffalo, NY - HDTV - Page 265 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7921 of 7943 Old 09-20-2019, 03:17 AM
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I don't think too many would loose much sleep over not being able to watch that.

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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post #7922 of 7943 Old 09-20-2019, 09:58 AM
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Rogers has filed applications to swap channels in Toronto at the time of repack. CITY-TV would move to Ch. 18 with a significant power increase to 49.4 KW - non-directional from the CN Tower. The signal should be receivable in parts of Buffalo. CFMT-TV would move to channel 30 - non-directional at 16kw.

Both would transmit from the CN Tower. It is assumed that City-tv's programming would be of greater interest to WNY viewers than (ethnic) CFMT. Global Network's CIII-TV will broadcast on Ch, 17 with 59,800 watts. Global may be more difficult to receive since it is first-adjacent to Ch. 16 (repack of Ch. 49) Buffalo.

On air testing would take place May 2, 2020.
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post #7923 of 7943 Old 09-20-2019, 10:00 AM
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City-tv comparative coverage map
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post #7924 of 7943 Old 09-20-2019, 10:52 AM
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Yes, WNYO 16 will knock out CIII 17, just as WNED 43 has killed CITY 44 (unless you are east and/or north of Buffalo). CITY 30 should of been ok (at least better) with WNED on 31 since CITY's 'pilot' wouldn't of been buried as it is now. Note I did state "should" since that situation doesn't exist here yet (the stronger station above the weaker).

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??

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post #7925 of 7943 Old 09-21-2019, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medialaw View Post
City-tv comparative coverage map

That file won't open. It states "not found".
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post #7926 of 7943 Old 09-21-2019, 06:37 PM
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That file won't open. It states "not found".
Maybe you've been hacked by Moses Znaimer? The PDF just opened fine for me.

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post #7927 of 7943 Old 09-22-2019, 08:32 AM
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here is the revised application for Citytv-DT on Channel 18. The black contour is Ch. 18 from the CN Tower.
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post #7928 of 7943 Old 09-22-2019, 09:22 AM
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Looks like the noise-limiting contour, the rough equivalent of what the engineers used to call the "Grade B" back in the analog days, will go right thru the middle of Buffalo! Wonder if the "big 4" U.S. network Buffalo affiliates will complain about that? I know that 20 years ago, they would have raised "holy hell" about it. OTOH, U.S. cable systems are not allowed to carry CITY, and there doesn't seem to be that many OTA'ers in the area anymore.

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post #7929 of 7943 Old 09-22-2019, 04:13 PM
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Maybe you've been hacked by Moses Znaimer? The PDF just opened fine for me.

It didn't like Firefox. Opened fine in Chrome.
Isn't Znaimer almost 100 years old by now??
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post #7930 of 7943 Old 09-22-2019, 04:18 PM
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OTOH, U.S. cable systems are not allowed to carry CITY, and there doesn't seem to be that many OTA'ers in the area anymore.

Why is it banned? Is it due to CITY's relaxed views on language or content??
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post #7931 of 7943 Old 09-22-2019, 05:05 PM
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CITY's not on the FCC's Significantly viewed list for any of the bordering counties. Only CFTO and CBLT are on the list for Niagara and portions of Erie county, along with CHCH for Niagara county. So if any cable company were to pick it up, syndex rules would apply and nearly everything except Breakfast Television, CityNews and the Sunday morning CHIN block would be blacked out.

Maybe back in the day when Moses was still running the show and most of the programming was locally produced they could have gotten interest and been added to the list, but these days the chances of any additional Canadian stations being granted significantly viewed status are slim to none.

BTW, Moses is still around, just not at City. He now runs ZoomerMedia who owns two small TV stations in western Canada, two cable channels and 4 radio stations in Ontario, including AM 740.
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post #7932 of 7943 Old 09-22-2019, 05:31 PM
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Sadly, the feds only will allow "two Canadian services" to be carried on Buffalo cable now. Nothing to do with content or language on stations like CITY, it's all about money. So for instance Spectrum Cable opts to only carry CBLT and CFTO. If either one of those stations happen to be carrying a U.S. network show that airs at the same time that a Buffalo station has it, Spectrum's TOC has to obey the "sim-sub" laws and delete it with a blank screen or an informercial channel. When Buffalo first was wired with cable in the 1970s, the system that covers the whole city was allowed to carry CHCH, CFTO, CBLT and CICA, then they were told to drop CICA in the 80's, and finally, Buffalo cable viewers ended up with just CFTO and CBLT. And, DirectTV and Dish are also actually not allowed to import any signals from the Toronto area.

Much of this has come about because various managers at the Buffalo network affiliates over the years have traditionally complained about Toronto signals being "unfair competition" for the Buffalo market--which is hilarious (and a total crock of s***) when you consider how they traditionally have treated the Toronto market as if it was their own. Meanwhile, when people go on cable or satellite in the Buffalo area, they now end up losing all but two of the Toronto stations. It's because of stupid "protective" regulations that clearly got written to favor the stations over the viewers. That's why I keep telling my friends in the area that they need to dump cable and go OTA!
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post #7933 of 7943 Old 09-22-2019, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_the_xmtr_tech View Post
If either one of those stations happen to be carrying a U.S. network show that airs at the same time that a Buffalo station has it, Spectrum's TOC has to obey the "sim-sub" laws and delete it with a blank screen or an informercial channel.

Ah yes... that's what Canadian cable has done for years! However their practice was to switch whatever was on 2, 4, or 7...with whatever Toronto station was airing the same program. I'm not certain...but I THINK they do the same thing with the Bell satellite service as well. (as long as the programs are airing at the same time)


I remember many years ago, the Canadian networks used to air many of the popular US hits, a day or two BEFORE they aired on the US nets!
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post #7934 of 7943 Old 09-22-2019, 09:07 PM
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I'm not certain...but I THINK they do the same thing with the Bell satellite service as well. (as long as the programs are airing at the same time)
correct
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post #7935 of 7943 Old 09-24-2019, 05:09 PM
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Re: WNLO/WIVB's new antenna going up to the top of their Colden tower

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...the antenna they are installing weighs 5950 lbs. , just under three tons, on top of tower at 1027 feet. They either have to build a tower next to their current tower, with a crane attached, or use a helicopter tower crew like WKBW plans on doing with their build in the spring. I have no idea what type of tower crew WNLO/WIVB plan on using, but tower crews are at a premium with the current repack of channels. I hope it is soon, but WNLO building permit is good until July 1, 2022. I suspect tower crews and weather will play a big factor.
This is how they did it up in the Burlington, Vermont market:


BTW, it costs over $5000 per hour to do it if they want to use a Sikorsky SkyCrane chopper!

I think those guys really do earn every cent of what they get paid!
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post #7936 of 7943 Old 09-25-2019, 03:06 AM
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AFA CATV being limited to the number of Canadian stations they can carry, how is that different than all the 'competition' from all the other CATV networks that the 'locals' have to compete with?
That might of made sense in the early 70's when there were a dozen or so stations on the cable systems, but that was then.

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post #7937 of 7943 Old 10-09-2019, 04:58 PM
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I have never heard of any such not allowed to carry rule, but I wouldn't be privy. I have always just assumed Spectrum and all the others prior, preferred not to carry anything from Canada at all, if they had it their way. I was always under the impression they weren't allowed to alter the picture quality of OTA broadcasts (eg video bandwidth). To this day they are still only showing as SD anyway. Guess they get a pass on the Canuck content? But whatever, I have my antenna system.

I believe what many of the local stations here complain about to no avail, is that the Canadian BDUs carry all their stations, without their consent and no compensation. Rightly so... I would complain too if I were them.

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post #7938 of 7943 Old 10-09-2019, 11:53 PM
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"Canadian BDU's" Huh ????

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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post #7939 of 7943 Old 10-10-2019, 05:05 AM
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BDU ->"Broadcast Distribution Undertaking"
from wiki

Canadian multichannel television providers are legally referred to as broadcast distribution undertakings (BDUs).

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post #7940 of 7943 Old 10-10-2019, 05:14 AM
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Never heard of it. Who comes up with the stuff??

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??

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post #7941 of 7943 Old 10-10-2019, 05:20 AM
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The Canadians have been using that term for a very long time. We here in the US have our own acronym-based term for it, MVPD. Multichannel Video Programming Distributor.

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post #7942 of 7943 Old 10-10-2019, 05:29 AM
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MVPD yes, this other no, either here of any Canadian forum that I ever visited.
But, do any of our 'locals' parent companies fall under MVPD's?

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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post #7943 of 7943 Old 10-10-2019, 08:31 AM
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I have never heard of any such not allowed to carry rule, but I wouldn't be privy. I have always just assumed Spectrum and all the others prior, preferred not to carry anything from Canada at all, if they had it their way. I was always under the impression they weren't allowed to alter the picture quality of OTA broadcasts (eg video bandwidth). To this day they are still only showing as SD anyway. Guess they get a pass on the Canuck content? But whatever, I have my antenna system.

I believe what many of the local stations here complain about to no avail, is that the Canadian BDUs carry all their stations, without their consent and no compensation. Rightly so... I would complain too if I were them.
U.S. program owners are compensated for distant cable carriage in Canada. The Canadian Copyright Act was amended in the early 1980's (pursuant to the original Canada-US Free Trade Agreement) to require compensation of owners of programs whose programs were distributed by Canadian cable and satellite companies. The Canadian Copyright Board adjudicates tariffs, which now exceed $100Million per year. The problem is, for Buffalo broadcast stations and some other stations that their locally-produced programming i.e. Eyewitness News at 6 and 11, (which they "own") doesn't pick up significant ratings. As you would expect, network shows such as Grey's Anatomy do get high ratings in Canada, but much of that is sim-subbed. So only the shows that actually get retransmitted, without sim-sub, are eligible for payment. The process to "divvy up" the large pot of gold, takes place over a number of years. The so-called Border Broadcasters, own/operate a copyright collective that draws from the $100M a year pool, but they are not satisfied they are getting enough $$$. But if their shows aren't watched, they have had a weak case and have never put forward a credible "alternative" argument. BTW they don't own any of the shows that run in their prime time schedules, or any of the major league sports they broadcast.
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