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post #8011 of 8097 Old 04-27-2020, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by el gran chico View Post
I've heard "by the end of May". I have not been able to independently verify this. For now, you'll need to be the judge of whether this is a "We hope to ... " or " We will be... " or not even true.
Lets hope it is true. WNLO just filed for another STA different antenna lower on the tower, with a little less power. I already seen a drop in power (not that I can pick them up). Perhaps it is sign that they are getting things in position on the tower to complete their build. But I have no knowledge of what they are doing, just hoping.
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post #8012 of 8097 Old 05-04-2020, 08:53 AM
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Wivb

FYI;
WIVB's signal (RF36) is down 11db as of this post time and date. I had a report it was that way over an hour ago.

It appears that they are back up to full power (or it appears that way by a level check) 5/5/20. It was for tower work upgrading.
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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??

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post #8013 of 8097 Old 05-06-2020, 10:48 AM
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Canadian station Musical Channels continues;
Hopefully this is it;

WBXZ will now move to RF 23 from RF 17 due to protecting CIII (which is good news),
CIII will now move to RF 17 from 41 (possibly interfered by WNYO, one of the Sinclair 'problem' stations),
CFMT will now move to RF 30 from 47 (all foreign language),
CJMT will move to RF 26 from 40 (mostly foreign language w/ some American programming),
CKVP will move to RF 29 from 42,
CITY will now move to RF 18 from RF 44 (which is more good news),

BUT, CHCH (Hamilton) is still unreceivable due to WBNF both on RF 15

(Note; numbers w/o the 'RF' indicates a virtual & physical channel)

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??

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post #8014 of 8097 Old 05-06-2020, 02:58 PM
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Canadian station Musical Channels continues...CKVP will move to RF 29 from 42...
And with WDTB Lakeview staying put as yet another nobody's watching "send-us-a-dollar-and-we'll-pray-for you" waste of TV spectrum space on RF 29 from the top of Seneca One.

That should give us the same situation on RF 29 as we get right now on RF 15, so there goes any chance of getting CTV TWO 'round these parts anymore.

WHAT a friggin' mess! So much UHF is getting crammed into RF 14 to 36 over the Buffalo/Niagara area that maybe it'll keep the chicken wings warm without an oven.

But, 5G coverage EVERYWHERE now! Just what the kids wanted!


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post #8015 of 8097 Old 05-06-2020, 03:34 PM
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Isn't that 5G what caused the virus??
Too bad more didn't choose to use the VHF high band.

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post #8016 of 8097 Old 05-06-2020, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_the_xmtr_tech View Post
WHAT a friggin' mess! So much UHF is getting crammed into RF 14 to 36 over the Buffalo/Niagara area that maybe it'll keep the chicken wings warm without an oven.
Now you guys outside the northeast corridor are experiencing what WE have been dealing with OTA since June 2009. Just wait for the next tropospheric boost, and you'll really see some interference!
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post #8017 of 8097 Old 05-06-2020, 06:35 PM
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Now you guys outside the northeast corridor are experiencing what WE have been dealing with OTA since June 2009. Just wait for the next tropospheric boost, and you'll really see some interference!
Yeah, we are sort of screwed in WNY by the "Great Lakes Basin" and all the stable inversion conditions it causes. Back in the ol' analog days it used to be fun to see what would come in through the "venetian blind" bars on the normally empty channels here, but over a decade now since the switch to ATSC, tropo inversions are often no longer very helpful or interesting--the weaker co-channel stations just tend to cancel themselves out.

And since the repack, I'm sorry to hear that along the Atlantic Corridor every channel is so crammed as you go from region to region. What really "grinds my gears" is how most of our first- AND second-adjacents here close to the border are pretty much "toast" these days, because the FCC and CRTC apparently both "decided" that the signals suddenly stop at the borders.

A big part of the problem for my location is that the Toronto and Buffalo population centers are situated just a "tad" close to each other and pretty much exhausted all the available channels quite a while ago. I can imagine that New England, N.Y.C., Philly, and Washington D.C./Northern VA/Baltimore MD areas have same kind of "congestion" issues.

IMHO it's a shame that so many OTA RF channels were taken away from us just as folks were starting to re-discover OTA TV!
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post #8018 of 8097 Old 05-07-2020, 06:09 PM
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IMHO it's a shame that so many OTA RF channels were taken away from us just as folks were starting to re-discover OTA TV!
True! According to Nielsen, the percentage of OTA households in the USA has risen from a nadir of 8.5% in 2010 to about 16% in 2018. As you have alluded to earlier, the telecoms wanted more spectrum, and congress said "sure thing." We need more people to go OTA so the FCC doesn't totally dismiss our needs.
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post #8019 of 8097 Old 05-08-2020, 02:17 AM
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I've been saying that a vast majority have no clue what is available over the border as far as television programming. Thou much of it is duplicated US network material, that isn't always the case.
It seems the only time watching Canadian TV comes into play is during hockey playoffs and the finals.

According to this, the Toronto-Hamilton market is the 4th largest behind Chicago and that doesn't include WNY (which is a joke);
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...north-america/

These lamo companies with these counts seem to think there is a invisible 'RF wall' between countries starting with Nielson.
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post #8020 of 8097 Old 05-08-2020, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
...these lamo companies with these counts seem to think there is a invisible 'RF wall' between countries starting with Nielson.
Right! And I swear it seems as if they're actually counting on local viewers not to even attempt OTA reception, because OTA viewers are considered to be "hard to track," and these days tracking data is everything. For some companies, if you're not watching on cable or satellite, you're not important to them.

As you've said, most viewers in this market now seem to have no idea of what they can (or can't, in the case of CHCH) get for free via OTA reception, which a lot of folks don't even try for anymore because they're now on satellite or cable. I still remember the days when almost every house in the city and the 'burbs would have all-channel antennas on rotators so they could watch twice the number of area stations, getting all the "goodies" like the NHL Hockey on CBLT, the 4-days-to-a-week advance showings of the Big 3 U.S. network fare on CHCH and CFTO, Japanese monster-stompin' Tokyo flicks on WUTV, and Sesame Street and all the high-quality PBS stuff on WNED.

I can't believe so many folks in Buffalo are willing to pay so much money for satellite or cable, not even getting half the stuff that's available for free via area OTA signals. Out here in Gardenville just about every house has Dish or Direct, with a few clueless idiots still tethered to Spectrum because of their Internet service.

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post #8021 of 8097 Old 05-08-2020, 08:52 AM
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because OTA viewers are considered to be "hard to track," and these days tracking data is everything.
Not if you have a DVR that allows returning viewing habits data.

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post #8022 of 8097 Old 05-08-2020, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
Not if you have a DVR that allows returning viewing habits data.
Problem is, actual DVR numbers are steadily dropping now and millennials are saying they can do without them in increasing numbers. I hate to say that streaming is taking over viewing--but streaming IS taking over viewing.

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post #8023 of 8097 Old 05-08-2020, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
According to this, the Toronto-Hamilton market is the 4th largest behind Chicago and that doesn't include WNY (which is a joke);
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...north-america/
At 60 miles, Buffalo and Toronto are not that close TV wise. If it wasn't for Lake Ontario (which hardly degrades LOS TV signals, unlike what land does), it would be much harder to receive Toronto from Buffalo and vice-versa. Boston & Providence (40 miles apart), Hartford & Springfield (25 miles), Baltimore & Washington (35 miles), and Syracuse & Utica (45 miles) anchor Nielsen markets situated much closer together. That's just in the northeast. To the point about a wall at the border, I believe any person with a people meter in the USA gets counted when watching a Canadian station.
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post #8024 of 8097 Old 05-12-2020, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
... with these counts seem to think there is a invisible 'RF wall' between countries ...

Counts are for advertisers. WNY Personal Injury attorneys have no interesting in paying for access to Canadians. Southern Ontario recreational pot vendors have no interest in paying to reach Americans.


" ... because the FCC and CRTC apparently both "decided" that the signals suddenly stop at the borders"


Signals don't but rights do. CTV pays the NFL a lot of money for Canadian rights. They have a vested interest in making sure they get what they paid for. By the same token, if CTV somehow started drawing viewers away from WUTV, WIVB, WGRZ in WNY (that is, the rights holder for the location in question), they'd do the same.
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post #8025 of 8097 Old 05-12-2020, 08:13 AM
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WNLO/WIVB's RF 36 signal is looking lousy this morning, like they're on their aux antenna. Could be that they're finally getting a chance to complete the work that's been so delayed out in Colden today!

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post #8026 of 8097 Old 05-18-2020, 03:18 PM
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WNLO WIVB Tower work

WNLO/WIVB is definitely working on their tower. At what stage in process they are, I have no idea. But they have what looks like a crane attached to the top of the tower, with a basket attached to it.
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post #8027 of 8097 Old 05-18-2020, 04:22 PM
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WNLO/WIVB is definitely working on their tower. At what stage in process they are, I have no idea. But they have what looks like a crane attached to the top of the tower, with a basket attached to it.
From here in the near Southtowns it sure looks like they've been switching to auxiliary almost every day for the past week during the daytime, usually going back up in power again just before their 5 p.m. newscast.

NEXSTAR must be too cheap to rent a helo-crane. Guess it will all be worth it when we see what their new 800 kilowatts ERP can do from that new impressive height

BTW, you guys in the Southern Tier prolly never receive the Buffalo LPs, but lil' tiny WBXZ 56 (RF 17) was supposed to swich to RF 23 this past weekend, and at the last minute couldn't do it cos their new transmitter has not arrived yet. Global TV Toronto must be getting ready to fire up their new RF 17 soon. And to make things even more confusing WDTB 39 (RF 29) Lakeview has been running color bar test patterns on 39.2. That's supposed to be Buffalo's first Spanish language OTA station. Envíales un dólar y rezarán por ti!

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post #8028 of 8097 Old 05-18-2020, 06:02 PM
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NEXSTAR must be too cheap to rent a helo-crane.
Maybe but they appear to be getting up and running before WKBW and WUTV, both of which are waiting on Helicopters.

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BTW, you guys in the Southern Tier prolly never receive the Buffalo LPs, but lil' tiny WBXZ 56 (RF 17) was supposed to swich to RF 23 this past weekend, and at the last minute couldn't do it cos their new transmitter has not arrived yet.
Actually I have pick up WBXZ when the weather inversions set-up, if only for an hour or to in the morning, but not often. I also get the CBC Ch.5 (RF 20) and TVO on Ch.19 and the French on CH.25, those three stations more often with the weather inversions.

That said I am looking forward to WNLO/WIVB and WKBW completing their build. Right now I get WPXJ Ion, I think I could get them in with a paperclip for an antenna here. WGRZ is problematic in the warmer weather,(always has been for the last 14 years) comes in in the morning and at night, drops out during the day. WKBW and WIVB were always reliable when up to full power and broadcasting from Colden. However with the lower power and more directional signal, I don't get either of them. So looking forward to them completing this build
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post #8029 of 8097 Old 05-19-2020, 12:09 PM
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Would love to see a photo of the WIVB/WNLO "tower crane gizmo".

Anyone know when the copter will be at the WKBW site?
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post #8030 of 8097 Old 05-19-2020, 05:44 PM
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Would love to see a photo of the WIVB/WNLO "tower crane gizmo".

Anyone know when the copter will be at the WKBW site?
I wish I took one. With the traffic on the road and only my Cellphone that wasn't feasible (and I won't be back in that area for a long time). You can see the WIVB tower from a distances and you can see the transmitter building, but you can't see the property around the transmitter from the road. However on the side of the tower at the top, you can see extension with a hook next to the antenna, but you really can't see the antenna, you can see what looks like a beacon light above the hook. You could also see a good size Basket (like one you could see attached to a hot air balloon), towards the bottom of the tower, clearly connected to guide wires going up towards the top of that crane. It looks similar at the top like what is on this YouTube video
As far as when WKBW will be doing their Helicopter lift I have no idea, but back on April 6th WUTV gave this to the FCC. Helicopter pick scheduled 5/26/20. I suspect weather plays a factor with Helicopter crews, so we will see if that happens on time for WUTV.
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post #8031 of 8097 Old 05-19-2020, 07:40 PM
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Great news about the antenna work. Can someone please refresh my memory: which Buffalo stations are currently at less than full height and power?
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post #8032 of 8097 Old 05-19-2020, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dheian View Post
Great news about the antenna work. Can someone please refresh my memory: which Buffalo stations are currently at less than full height and power?
WNLO/WIVB
WKBW
WUTV
WNYO

And WBXZ-LP still needs to move from RF 17 to RF 23
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post #8033 of 8097 Old 05-19-2020, 07:50 PM
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Thanks.
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post #8034 of 8097 Old 05-20-2020, 10:43 PM
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WNLO/WIVB
WKBW
WUTV
WNYO
Source for WUTV & WKBW not being at full power?

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post #8035 of 8097 Old 05-20-2020, 11:10 PM
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It's from the technical details on RabbitEars and WKBW's and WUTV's own FCC filings. They have yet to file a license to cover for their final post repack facilities to indicate that the work is done, and their most recent progress reports they filed said the work isn't completed.

WUTV is currently operating on a STA from WNLO's old facility on WNED's tower transmitting 1000 kW at 989' giving them a 60.4 mile contour, their final facility will be on WUTV's own tower transmitting 1000 kW at 1079', giving them a 62.6 mile contour.

Back in March they filed a tolling request to extend their contruction deadline, in the narrative they explained why:
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...709bd6bc3816ba
Quote:
The Station is operating using the above-referenced interim facility which is the former Channel 32 site of WNLO as a result of a Petition for Rulemaking granted by the Commission which exchanged channels between WUTV and WNLO. WUTV has made its transition to its new post-transition Channel 32 by utilizing WNLO’s existing facility pending the construction of a new WUTV Channel 32 facility, authorized by construction permit file number 0000075316. WUTV requests authorization to continue its interim operation using the former WNLO Channel 32 facility until the new facility is completed. The Commission concluded that the channel swap and the facilities detailed herein serve the public interest.

The Station has made significant progress in constructing its post-transition facilities, including installation of the Station’s full power post-transition transmitter and has scheduled installation of the Station’s permanent top-mount antenna. The Station will continue to operate at full power at the WNLO site, until the Station has its antenna installed at its permanent location with ASR 1019110, the current CP facility. This tower is for WUTV and is owned by the licensee. The helicopter pick to install the permanent antenna is scheduled for May 26, 2020.
WUTV's latest progress report from April indicates their work is not done, and that the helicopter crew to install the final antenna is scheduled for 5/26, although because of Covid-19 related work shutdowns last month it's possible that crew is now backlogged with other stations and will be delayed:
Quote:
Helicopter pick scheduled 5/26/20

WKBW is still operating on a STA transmitting a highly directional 560 kW signal at 1143' giving them a 56.4 mile contour. Their final facility will be 660 kW at 1417' giving them a 63.7 mile contour.

WKBW's latest progress report from March says they were waiting on a tower crew
Quote:
WKBW is waiting on date from tower crew when it will be able to install new main antenna. Station is currently operating on an broadband interim side-mount antenna.
The extension they filed back in February provided additional details:
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...7064a4a62a042d
Quote:
WKBW-TV had been on track to complete construction of its new, main Ch. 34 facility by March 13, 2020 (Phase 8 deadline) and had planned to begin operating with its new channel on that date; however, the company retained to install the new main antenna recently notified WKBW-TV that it will not be able to complete the installation until April 2020 at the earliest.

WKBW-TV has already installed a broadband, side-mounted antenna capable of operating on Ch. 34. WKBW-TV intends to have the new main Ch. 34 transmitter routed to the side-mounted interim antenna by the transition deadline. WKBW-TV, along with the filing of the request for a CP extension, plans to file a request for Special Temporary Authority to operate on Ch. 34 with its auxiliary/interim antenna and main transmitter since WKBW-TV will not be able to meet the March 13, 2020 construction permit deadline due to the unexpected delay in antenna installation.
(Thanks to COVID-19 related work shutdowns, that April 2020 date has come and gone without the tower crew arriving)
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post #8036 of 8097 Old 05-21-2020, 12:43 AM
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Sounds as more like 'musical towers' than anything else.
What happened to WUTV's RF 14 setup?? (I assume the frequency change was too great to use their old antenna.) But, more important, what's wrong with WNYO's RF 32 facility that, that can't be used as is?? Is it a pattern issue?
Seems like a bunch of wasted time & money.

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post #8037 of 8097 Old 05-21-2020, 01:33 AM
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Because if WUTV kept WNLO's RF 32 facility they would have to pay a tower lease to WNED and a lease on the transmitter building, which would be a waste of money when they already have their own tower available on Grand Island. Plus WUTV's new antenna will have an elliptical polarization, which will help for mobile reception if they are the ones to eventually switch to ATSC 3.0, while WNLO's old RF 32 facility is only horizontally polarized.

Very few stations reused their existing antenna during the repack as most broadcasting antennas are cut for specific frequencies. Even moving up or down one channel number required a new antenna in many cases. There was also a maximization window opened as part of a repack which let many stations across the country increase their coverage areas and change their patterns to match the biggest signal in their market. i.e. WUTV's old RF 14 signal was highly directional from 983', their new RF 32 signal will be non-directional from 1079' and reach a larger area.
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post #8038 of 8097 Old 05-21-2020, 06:32 AM
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IIRC, Sinclair already announced that WNYO was going to be their first Buffalo signal to go "3.0;" has that plan changed now?

Tower structural reinforcements while installing the heavier waveguide needed for ATSC 3.0 (the extra bulk is a b*tch to work with) are also causing many stations to fall behind in their renovations, but right now they seem to like to use the coronavirus crisis as the big "dog ate our homework" excuse.

Speaking of excuses, gotta wonder if anyone got fired when WUTV lost their signal last Wednesday right during the middle of "The Masked Singer?"

Don't fear the Reaper. Fear the Repack!

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post #8039 of 8097 Old 05-21-2020, 07:33 AM
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It’s interesting to note that WNED signal would of been stronger, but they were not able to maximize their signal. CITY Woodstock decided not to follow repack plan and stayed on rf31 forcing WNED to run at lower power than applied for.
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post #8040 of 8097 Old 05-21-2020, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Because if WUTV kept WNLO's RF 32 facility they would have to pay a tower lease to WNED and a lease on the transmitter building
That was my bad, I forgot about that.
Quote:
There was also a maximization window opened as part of a repack which let many stations across the country increase their coverage areas and change their patterns to match the biggest signal in their market.
I wasen't aware of that, I figured since the coverage area was already decided (same market) ERP & pattern would remain the same.

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Recording free OTA TV for 'time shifting' has been here since 1975. Will there be DVR's to do the same when ATSC3 obsoletes existing DVR's??
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