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post #8911 of 9003 Old 10-18-2019, 05:04 PM
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I am seeing KATU (RF24 vir.2) at a slightly larger amplitude than in the past this afternoon. How is your reception of KOIN (RF25, vir.6)? The two signals are transmitted from the same antenna with the same power. However, I received KOIN's signal from the new site badly for several days and then it cleared up on its own; one of the mysteries of transmitted RF.


If you haven't rescanned you DTV set yet, you will need to do so to continue to get KATU since it shut down its RF43 transmitter this afternoon. That was the last hold out for Portland's channel repack so all of its DTV stations are now below RF37. Note that a bunch of the licensed stations below RF37 are not on the air at present..


Unfortunately it's not a prime afternoon to rescan a DTV set. KNMT (RF32 Vir.24 after a week of ~half power operations with very large adjacent channel emissions is now 25 dB below its former amplitude.


And, just to make it interesting, KUNP-LD (RF34 Vir.47) was completely off the air but the RabbitEars site ( https://m.rabbitears.info/index.php?...107241E4&tno=3 ) indicates it has returned to the air since I looked an hour ago.


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post #8912 of 9003 Old 10-18-2019, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LinleyG View Post
I am seeing KATU (RF24 vir.2) at a slightly larger amplitude than in the past this afternoon.
My reception problem was temporary. They finally shut down RF 43 today and my homemade DVR informed me that it couldn't get PSIP data from it. I was like, "Oh, yeah! KATU!" so I checked RF 24 and got a puny unreadable signal from it on all receivers. Now it's just as strong as the other stations, so whatever.

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If you haven't rescanned you DTV set yet, you will need to do so to continue to get KATU since it shut down its RF43 transmitter this afternoon.

Linley
I don't exactly have a DTV set. I have an HTPC which I coded back in the early HDTV days. I just had to change a bunch of 43's to 24's, just like I did when KOIN moved.
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post #8913 of 9003 Old 11-07-2019, 04:52 PM
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Just for the record; stations on/off:


KOXI-CD (Vir20, RF20) has been and remains off the air since October 28th.


KNMT (Vir24, RF32) has been and remains 25 dB below its normal amplitude since October 17th.


KOIN and KATU's new transmitters now show a nearly ideal spectrum on my low gain antenna. Their power still moves up and down more than normal. Both seem to have extraordinarily clean adjacent channel emissions.


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post #8914 of 9003 Old 11-10-2019, 04:25 PM
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2 and 6 are more stable for me since the they completed the repack to lower RF frequencies. Doing a channel scan and signal measurement I notice a odd behavior with the Tivo Bolt that initially a signal will be measured in the high 70s then slowly levels off to 72. I'll be honest I never really paid that much attention over the years till KATU made the RF change so this could be old news to frequent readers.

Not sure if I'm contributing anything here but for stats, approx. 7.5 miles South of the towers, Tigard, signals are coming in strong. (Antenna in the attic.)

I'm contemplating buying a new antenna and mounting it on the roof. Questions i have...

* What do people recommend?
* Should the antenna use the same grounding rod that services the house? There is a long distance, approximately 120' between where to mount the antenna and ground rod.
* Any body use or heard of people using the Commdeck dish mounting system? https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...iABEgJDsPD_BwE

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by LinleyG View Post
Just for the record; stations on/off:


KOXI-CD (Vir20, RF20) has been and remains off the air since October 28th.


KNMT (Vir24, RF32) has been and remains 25 dB below its normal amplitude since October 17th.


KOIN and KATU's new transmitters now show a nearly ideal spectrum on my low gain antenna. Their power still moves up and down more than normal. Both seem to have extraordinarily clean adjacent channel emissions.


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post #8915 of 9003 Old 11-12-2019, 09:51 PM
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Klipko,


I have pondered your posting and keep wondering why you're considering an outside antenna? You said the signals are coming in strong and apparently you are doing well with the present antenna in your attic.


One of the startling features of DTV is that once you have a signal that is above threshold, that is, one that makes a stable, watchable picture, that's as good as its ever going to be. More signal will not make it better. That said, you need enough signal so that small variations caused by storms, snow, etc. will not take you below threshold. I recommend checking to make sure all the stations you are interested in are still above threshold after inserting a 6 dB or 10 dB attenuator in the antenna line. After removing the attenuator, there should be enough signal margin for a reliable picture.


Once above threshold, the picture quality you get depends somewhat on the details of your set, but more importantly on the picture quality the station chooses to transmit. Some Portland DTV stations crowd too many signals onto their channel making some of the pictures very soft.


With the now replaced analog TV system, getting higher signal amplitude improved the picture quality by reducing the background noise (clutter) in the picture's background. With DTV, if you get a picture at all, it will be noise and shadow free.


Sorry, but I am not an expert on grounding external antennas. Don't want to comment and get it wrong.


Linley

Last edited by LinleyG; 11-15-2019 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Correct the Engliah.
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post #8916 of 9003 Old 11-17-2019, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LinleyG View Post
Klipko,


I have pondered your posting and keep wondering why you're considering an outside antenna? You said the signals are coming in strong and apparently you are doing well with the present antenna in your attic.


One of the startling features of DTV is that once you have a signal that is above threshold, that is, one that makes a stable, watchable picture, that's as good as its ever going to be. More signal will not make it better. That said, you need enough signal so that small variations caused by storms, snow, etc. will not take you below threshold. I recommend checking to make sure all the stations you are interested in are still above threshold after inserting a 6 dB or 10 dB attenuator in the antenna line. After removing the attenuator, there should be enough signal margin for a reliable picture.


Once above threshold, the picture quality you get depends somewhat on the details of your set, but more importantly on the picture quality the station chooses to transmit. Some Portland DTV stations crowd too many signals onto their channel making some of the pictures very soft.


With the now replaced analog TV system, getting higher signal amplitude improved the picture quality by reducing the background noise (clutter) in the picture's background. With DTV, if you get a picture at all, it will be noise and shadow free.


Sorry, but I am not an expert on grounding external antennas. Don't want to comment and get it wrong.


Linley
I'm going to contradict myself here.

While I can receive the primary channels (2, 6, 8, 10, 12, 32, 49) just fine, it's the low power stations that the signals are weak and come across pixelated or no signal at all. This I want to improve. I read that its like a crapshoot receiving signals with antennas in the attic because it depends on a number of factors like roofing material, number of layers and etc. so I figure if I have the antenna outside that eliminates one obstacle.

Right now I'm not interested in using anything powered like an amp or pre-amp.

I use to have a 15 dB attenuator during my FiOS TV days. (The ONT would pump out a very hot signal.) If I can find that, I'll do some testing.

Last edited by Klipko; 11-17-2019 at 08:59 PM.
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post #8917 of 9003 Old 12-24-2019, 03:45 PM
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A new DTV signal has appeared on RF ch.21. By all appearances, it should be KPXG-LD. However, since it is 35 dB lower in amplitude than KPXG-TV's signal on RF ch.22, I have been unable to decode it. The new signal and KPXG-TV's signal gain and fade together as my antenna is rotated so the two signals are apparently located in the same area.


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post #8918 of 9003 Old 12-28-2019, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LinleyG View Post
A new DTV signal has appeared on RF ch.21. By all appearances, it should be KPXG-LD. However, since it is 35 dB lower in amplitude than KPXG-TV's signal on RF ch.22, I have been unable to decode it. The new signal and KPXG-TV's signal gain and fade together as my antenna is rotated so the two signals are apparently located in the same area.


Linley

KPXG-LD returned to the air on Dec. 26th, on RF 21 at 15 kW.

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...cilityId=69792

Jim - Springfield, Missouri

Antennas - Antennacraft MXU59 UHF antenna & home-brew version of Antennacraft VHF Y-10-7-13 antenna @ 25'. Both antennas fed through a Channel Master 7777 30dB pre-amp.
Tuners - Zenith DTT901 converter box; AirSpy HF+ sdr; Silicon Dust HDHomerun Dual ATSC tuner, using Rabbitears autologger support.
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post #8919 of 9003 Old 12-29-2019, 05:03 PM
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"KPXG-LD returned to the air on Dec. 26th, on RF 21 at 15 kW."


The body of the Resumption of Operations Notice KPXG-LD filed with the FCC on Dec, 26th does state that KPXG-LD was transmitting at full power. However in the appendix attached to that Notice we find this:


Word of God Fellowship, Inc.
KPXG-LD, Portland, Oregon
Facility ID No. 69792


Exhibit 1


4816‐5854‐2256.1




Notification of Resumption of Operation




Word of God Fellowship, Inc., the licensee of low power television station KPXG-LD,
Portland, Oregon, hereby notifies the Commission that it has resumed operation, effective
December 20, 2019, but at reduced power. KPXG-LD had been silent pursuant to Special
Temporary Authority granted January 25, 2019. If circumstances dictate that KPXG-LD must
remain at reduced power for a period of time longer than 30 days, then the appropriate STA
request will be filed with the Commission.
KPXG-TV on channel 22 has an ERP of 1 MW. KPXG-LD's signal is currently 35 dB or so below that power, or about 350 Watts. It sounds like they are fully aware of the problem and are working to fix it.


Five years ago, Charles Rhodes and I measured 17 DTV sets for their ability to withstand interference. Using a signal that had very low adjacent channel interference we found that the very best DTV sets would fail when an adjacent channel signal was about 35 dB greater than the desired one. That's how much larger KPXG-TV is than KPXG-LD at my house. Then there's the problem that KPXG-TV's ch. 22 signal is not a lab signal and has, like every operating DTV station, small, but significant emissions in KPXG-LD's ch. 21 slot. This makes the situation even worse. Between the sets' limitation and DTV's inherent adjacent channel emissions, not a set in my house can decode KPXG-LD,


Because of the inherent emissions into the adjacent channel from any DTV transmitter, the FCC's allocation process does not allow very low power DTV transmitters to be in the next adjacent channel to very powerful ones.


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post #8920 of 9003 Old 01-20-2020, 03:34 PM
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New or Soon-To-Be-An-Antenna user in Beaverton. I live near Murray and Allen in the Highland neighborhood. The back of house faces East. There's a ton of tall trees in this neighborhood.

I'm lucky, I think, in that my TV is mounted adjacent to the north-facing wall, though, looking north I contend with lots of tall pine trees.

Will an indoor antenna be sufficient? If so, what would guys recommend to pick up the major broadcast towers?

Thanks in advance.
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post #8921 of 9003 Old 01-20-2020, 04:50 PM
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JKmak00,


I helped a friend set up an indoor antenna in a condo just south of Allen and Erickson. We used an un-amplified Wingard Flatwave, FL5000 antenna and had excellent results. From memory, from a ground floor location in the middle of the house we received all the major stations and most of the minor ones. We even got duplicate OPB signals from its translator. From her (and apparently your) location, it was a toss-up as to whether the east or the north wall was the best, so we just put the antenna up on the wall behind the TV set and took pot luck. This antenna is flat, about 12" square and is white on one side and dark on the other, so that one side or the other pretty much will blend into the wall.


I have been monitoring the signal amplitude of a similar Flatwave antenna at my home in Aloha for over a year. I am perhaps a mile or so further away (as the crow flies) from the TV stations than you. There are also trees between us and the stations yet I see enough signal to view all the stations that are currently at full power.


I push the Flatwave antenna because I think its design is elegant. However, almost any of the available indoor antennas will probably work for you. At your distance, you most probably don't need an amplified antenna. But, especially behind the trees, your signal amplitudes will be low enough that an amplified antenna won't overload so either will work.


Feel free to contact me directly if you have more questions. I'm always interested in reception problems.


Linley

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post #8922 of 9003 Old 04-04-2020, 03:10 PM
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Mobile telephone transmitters were turned on in the channels above RF37 about 10 days ago. If you are suddenly having trouble receiving off air DTV signals on some channels this might be your problem. I would expect this to be especially true for higher UHF channels like KNMT (RF32, vir24), KCRW (RF33, vir32), KUNP-LD (RF34, vir47) and KKEI (RF36, vir38) are the most likely to be hit with receiver overload interference. But, in extreme cases (e.g. next door to a base station) it could be any channel.


Mobile phone interference can be minimized by use of an appropriate low pass filter. Channel Master sells the CM-3201 LTE filter that passes up to 600 MHz and rejects above that. If you have been here before, and think you already have a CM-3201 from a few years ago, Channel Master has done the astounding thing of using the same part number as for the 700 MHz version of this filter they sold five (?) years or so ago. Before you believe you have the correct filter read the fine print just above the model number on the filter.
The two filters I have measured seem to have a dB or so insertion loss across the entire passband. There seems to be an extra dB of loss over that in ch32, 2dB more in ch34 and 3dB more in ch36. They reject the mobile phone signals in ch39 by a bit more than 20dB which normally is sufficient to cure an overloaded receiver.


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post #8923 of 9003 Old 05-24-2020, 08:24 PM
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Yesterday, for the first time in memory, KORK (RF35) appeared on the air. This is the first time I have ever observed a signal on RF35. My daily records go back only 18 months while my data from episodic measurements goes back to 2011.


I have never tooled up with a PSIP reader. From what I can gather from my TV sets, KORK has only one virtual channel, Vir35.1. When I looked last night and this morning, it was transmitting a 480i version of Valley17, which can be seen in a 720P format on KWVT (RF11, Vir17.1).


Linley

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post #8924 of 9003 Old 05-26-2020, 01:35 PM
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The Portland stations filed their ATSC 3.0 simulcast plans with the FCC last week

KPDX and KRCW will be converting to ATSC 3.0 on July 28th.
KPDX's RF 30 signal will carry ATSC 3.0 simulcasts of KPDX, KPTV and KGW
KRCW's RF 33 signal will carry ATSC 3.0 simulcasts of KRCW, KATU and KOIN

These will be KPDX's ATSC 1.0 simulcasts:
49.1 MyNet will be on KPTV's RF 12 signal
49.2 CourtTV Mystery will be on KGW's RF 8 signal
49.3 Bounce will be on KPTV's RF 12 signal
49.4 Grit will be on KGW's RF 8 signal

These will be KRCW's ATSC 1.0 simulcasts:
32.1 CW will be on KATU's RF 24 signal
32.2 Antenna will be on KOIN's RF 25 signal
32.3 CourtTV will be on KOIN's RF 25 signal
32.4 TBD will be on KOIN's RF 25 signal


KOXO-CD (RF 15), KORS-CD (RF 16) and KKEI-CD (RF 36) will also be converting to ATSC 3.0 at some point, with KORK-CD (RF 35) hosting their ATSC 1.0 simulcasts
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post #8925 of 9003 Old 05-27-2020, 07:27 AM
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The Portland stations filed their ATSC 3.0 simulcast plans with the FCC last week

Thanks for the info! I was wondering if anyone else in the area was part of the HDHomerun kickstarter for the ATSC3.0 tuner? I backed it about an hour after it went live... Currently use a HDHR4 on my MythTV HTPC. I'm a bit worried that my old Nvidia GTX 430 won't be able to handle the HEVC signal.. I may need to pick up a fanless 1030.


With the simulcast of the main stations, it's looking the like only having two ATSC3.0 tuners in the box won't be much of an issue as it can record multiple sub-streams... Interesting times!
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post #8926 of 9003 Old 05-31-2020, 01:30 PM
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I backed it as well and decided to get the developer edition so I can have all the toys even if I might not use them. They ended up doing a second run it did so well and added a Apple TV stretch goal that was also met.

I have a Prime now so will be interesting to add it and some kind of antenna into the mix but will be fun playing with something on the ground floor.
It's closed now and we should get units in July as early round backers.
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post #8927 of 9003 Old 05-31-2020, 01:59 PM
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Thanks for the info! I was wondering if anyone else in the area was part of the HDHomerun kickstarter for the ATSC3.0 tuner? I backed it about an hour after it went live... Currently use a HDHR4 on my MythTV HTPC. I'm a bit worried that my old Nvidia GTX 430 won't be able to handle the HEVC signal.. I may need to pick up a fanless 1030.


With the simulcast of the main stations, it's looking the like only having two ATSC3.0 tuners in the box won't be much of an issue as it can record multiple sub-streams... Interesting times!
(edit as my info was wrong - was looking at what some were using vs what they could use).
The 430 can't do HEVC. I got the 1030 a few years ago specifically for UHD Blu-ray playback and it worked great for that and general/non-gaming use.

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post #8928 of 9003 Old 05-31-2020, 02:13 PM
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That card can't do H.265 but that isn't a problem for you as ATSC 3.0 standard is H.264 which I believe your card has hardware support for. I don't see anywhere in the standard summaries I've seen of 3.0 where 265 is even a future option.
ATSC 3.0 is using HEVC/H.265 for video.

We're a long way from having 4K Over the air and the network feeds still originate in 1080i or 720p, most computers made in the past 5-8 years should be able to handle software HEVC decoding at that resolution. Basically if you're using something purchased during Windows 7 era you should be good, but if you're using something from the Vista era you might have problems unless you have a CPU that was considered high end at the time.

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post #8929 of 9003 Old 05-31-2020, 02:14 PM
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I got a nearly new 1070gtx just before video card prices went nuts due to crypto mining and as far as I know it supports most everything. It's been great for editing and recoding all my HDTV captures from the Prime to watch later on Plex. It really speeds everything up along with a old 4960x hex core cpu.
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post #8930 of 9003 Old 06-01-2020, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyL416 View Post
ATSC 3.0 is using HEVC/H.265 for video.

We're a long way from having 4K Over the air and the network feeds still originate in 1080i or 720p, most computers made in the past 5-8 years should be able to handle software HEVC decoding at that resolution. Basically if you're using something purchased during Windows 7 era you should be good, but if you're using something from the Vista era you might have problems unless you have a CPU that was considered high end at the time.

Looks like I'm in the market for an upgrade!


My MythTV HTPC is running a 9 year old AMD A6-3500 with the GT-430 video card. Wow... I didn't realize how long it's been since I put this together...
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post #8931 of 9003 Old 06-02-2020, 10:24 AM
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Looks like I'm in the market for an upgrade!


My MythTV HTPC is running a 9 year old AMD A6-3500 with the GT-430 video card. Wow... I didn't realize how long it's been since I put this together...
If you want to do as little as possible, you can just start with the graphics card unless you are just feeling like doing a new build because it is time. For just media playback tasks, the graphics card will take essentially all the decoding load. For a new build, the built-in graphics on new intel CPUs and amd APU's can handle it without separate GPU.
Until a few months ago, I had a cpu from 2006 (Intel QX6700) that I was using with the 1030 and I could play UHD Blu-ray's and only use a very small % of the cpu and the video on those discs are more bitrate intensive than anything that will be sent OTA.
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post #8932 of 9003 Old 06-02-2020, 03:53 PM
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If you want to do as little as possible, you can just start with the graphics card unless you are just feeling like doing a new build because it is time. For just media playback tasks, the graphics card will take essentially all the decoding load. For a new build, the built-in graphics on new intel CPUs and amd APU's can handle it without separate GPU.
Until a few months ago, I had a cpu from 2006 (Intel QX6700) that I was using with the 1030 and I could play UHD Blu-ray's and only use a very small % of the cpu and the video on those discs are more bitrate intensive than anything that will be sent OTA.

Yeah, the current setup is fine with the exception of the video card. I've played with the idea of converting the HTPC to a remote backend and using a small OdroidC4 as the frontend. Quickest and easiest.... Just pick up a 1030.
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post #8933 of 9003 Old 06-08-2020, 04:15 AM
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Out here on the Northern Oregon Coast we probably will be seeing any 3.0 for years, but since we do not have a lot of diginets, we are looking forward to the stacking. A lot of outdoor antennas have gone up on the Northern Oregon Coast since the number of TV translators increased. We have 16 OTA offerings at the moment, with 2,6,8, & 10 giving us the same as in Portland, but we only get the KPTV/KPDX mux with none of the sub channels. I am hoping that will change on July 28th, or whenever the stacking starts. we should go up to 25 OTA offerings including Antenna TV and Cozi. Ones we have been wanting for years. It will be nice to finally see KRCW OTA too. For years Tribune owned KRCW and they did not believe in translators, so there were few. I am glad KRCW was sold as Nexstar wants KRCW out here. We want it too.

A friend told me on the KOIN News last night it was mentioned that Antenna TV will be carried by KOIN, but there wasn't any details. So I guess they are already getting the word out.

The 3.0 plan was originally April 20th, then June 9th, and now July 28th. So I am hoping they can keep the date.
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post #8934 of 9003 Old 06-09-2020, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost Dog View Post
Yeah, the current setup is fine with the exception of the video card. I've played with the idea of converting the HTPC to a remote backend and using a small OdroidC4 as the frontend. Quickest and easiest.... Just pick up a 1030.
I THINK if you want it to be able to take most of the load off the cpu you might need a 1050 gpu. If you're not recoding videos with it maybe it doesn't make any difference as long as it can play 4k for you.

If you do care the higher up you go the more power they have to help recode videos. My combination does 720p and 1080p captures at about 45 minutes of video to HEVC/H265 at around 800fps and H264 goes over 1k and is super fast but quite a bit larger when done.

You might find deals used on Craigslist and eBay and get lucky on a better grade used card.
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post #8935 of 9003 Old 06-09-2020, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
I THINK if you want it to be able to take most of the load off the cpu you might need a 1050 gpu. If you're not recoding videos with it maybe it doesn't make any difference as long as it can play 4k for you.

If you do care the higher up you go the more power they have to help recode videos. My combination does 720p and 1080p captures at about 45 minutes of video to HEVC/H265 at around 800fps and H264 goes over 1k and is super fast but quite a bit larger when done.

You might find deals used on Craigslist and eBay and get lucky on a better grade used card.

No need for recode. A 1030 will be more power than needed for decoding. As long as HEVC is hardware decoded it really doesn't matter how powerful the CPU is. I've got a ~4 watt Odroid-C2 which can decode 4k h.265 @ 60fps but I need something that will do a combined front end / backend of my HTPC.


I think I'll just go for the 1030 and call it good... While the 1050 is a better card, I'm looking for a fanless option.
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post #8936 of 9003 Old 06-09-2020, 07:11 PM
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Well then I guess you can find a 1030 cheap and be all set. I was thinking about getting a better card than the 640gt?or whatever it is in my win7 box so it could recode videos too and even a 1050 refurbished seemed kinda spendy for what it is so I let it capture with wmc and do the editing and heavy lifting with the win10 box with the good card and faster cpu with 32 gig.

Maybe someday I'll build a mini box just for media center and the big box can still do the editing and recoding every week or so.
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post #8937 of 9003 Old 06-10-2020, 09:02 PM
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KPDX's RF 30 signal will carry ATSC 3.0 simulcasts of KPDX, KPTV and KGW
KPDX will also be carrying KOPB on their ATSC 3.0 signal
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...3247f&goBack=N
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post #8938 of 9003 Old 06-14-2020, 07:55 AM
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The ATSC, in their May 26th progress report, claimed that Portland is an active NEXTGEN TV market.


I still don't see any relatively powerful signals that might support this. Are they stretching the truth or am I missing something?
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post #8939 of 9003 Old 06-14-2020, 11:20 AM
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There are currently no ATSC3 (NewGeneration) DTV stations on the air in Portland. The ATSC got it wrong. The original plan was for a mid April launch here. Then it was delayed until early June and now it's set for July 28. Given that the FCC has granted all of the stations involved permission to make the change in July, it's likely it will happen this time.
Linley

Last edited by LinleyG; 06-14-2020 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Correct typos
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post #8940 of 9003 Old 06-15-2020, 04:49 PM
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The ATSC got it wrong.
I wonder how many other markets that they said were active really aren't.


The most recent official term for ATSC 3.0 is "NEXTGEN TV".
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