Pittsburgh, PA - OTA - Page 168 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 41Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #5011 of 5030 Old 03-05-2020, 07:01 PM
Senior Member
 
Brian in CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Fairfield, Conn.
Posts: 287
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockin1jr View Post
Bottom line, I'll be moving closer to Pittsburgh, where the Pittsburgh OTA signals are very strong. But I'm interested in the weaker channels that show up in my TVFool report. My strongest signal is WPCB at 76 NM, next strongest is KDKA at 63 NM. The question is, is the CM-7776 16 dB preamp too much gain for those strong signals? I'm sure my cable run will be minimum 50 feet (not started this project yet, just doing the math and research).
Pittsburgh OTA transmitters are within 16 miles, but I have interest in WFMJ, WNEO, and WTRF etc.
TVFool report added (location is Trafford)
Thanks in advance.
First of all, bag the TV Fool website. Their information is almost THREE years out of date. Instead, use the "Signal Search Map" on www.rabbitears.info. You can post the resulting table on this site. RabbitEars has pretty much all the same bells and whistles as TVFool. Just remember, change your height above ground from the default of 30 feet if necessary. Many users forget to do that. Also, if you click on the transmitter distance in your "Results List," you will get a neat terrain path. This would show any obstructions in the signal's way.

Unless you're just a few miles from the transmitter, a 16 dB preamp probably won't overload the strongest signals. This is especially true if you plan on splitting the signal. Each time you split your signal in two, you lose about 3.5 dB of signal strength. So if you use a four-way splitter to feed different TVs, you would be losing about 7.0 dB per line. Looking forward to seeing your RabbitEars Report.

Last edited by Brian in CT; 03-05-2020 at 07:04 PM.
Brian in CT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5012 of 5030 Old 03-05-2020, 08:29 PM
Member
 
rockin1jr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southwestern PA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in CT View Post
First of all, bag the TV Fool website. Their information is almost THREE years out of date. Instead, use the "Signal Search Map" on www.rabbitears.info. You can post the resulting table on this site. RabbitEars has pretty much all the same bells and whistles as TVFool. Just remember, change your height above ground from the default of 30 feet if necessary. Many users forget to do that. Also, if you click on the transmitter distance in your "Results List," you will get a neat terrain path. This would show any obstructions in the signal's way.

Unless you're just a few miles from the transmitter, a 16 dB preamp probably won't overload the strongest signals. This is especially true if you plan on splitting the signal. Each time you split your signal in two, you lose about 3.5 dB of signal strength. So if you use a four-way splitter to feed different TVs, you would be losing about 7.0 dB per line. Looking forward to seeing your RabbitEars Report.
https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...study_id=66813

And WPCB is 1.5 miles from my new location, that's why I was asking about the 16dB preamp overloading that signal. 2nd closest is WTAE at 7.5 miles.
rockin1jr is offline  
post #5013 of 5030 Old 03-06-2020, 06:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Brian in CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Fairfield, Conn.
Posts: 287
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 36
From what I can see in your results table, WPCB and WBYD are the only stations you should be worrying about overloading. It just depends on how important those LPTV stations are for you to receive. I see you set your antenna height at 13 feet. Is this antenna going to be a second floor indoor antenna or a rooftop antenna for a single story house? If your setup is going to be the former, you probably will only get TV stations with a field strength of "Good" or "Fair." If it's the latter, then you can add stations listed as "Poor" to the mix. Just remember to get a all-band antenna if want to receive VHF stations like WPCW and WQED.

The reason you have TV stations so close to you with "Fair" of "Poor" signal quality is due to high ground (to your NW) partially blocking those signals. If that hill wasn't there, those weaker Pittsburgh signals would be coming in like gangbusters.
Brian in CT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5014 of 5030 Old 03-06-2020, 08:12 PM
Member
 
HBO Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pgh. PA. (Ross, W. View area)
Posts: 181
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Is WIIC or WWBP back on the air as ch. 31? I have REVN, ACTION and FAM on ch 31's 3 sub-channels. Wikipedia and rabbitears.info still lists old info. and I haven't seen any call letters yet. oh, and QVC on 31-4 which I forgot I had deleted.

Last edited by HBO Kid; 03-06-2020 at 08:17 PM.
HBO Kid is offline  
post #5015 of 5030 Old 03-07-2020, 06:59 AM
Member
 
rockin1jr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southwestern PA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in CT View Post
From what I can see in your results table, WPCB and WBYD are the only stations you should be worrying about overloading. It just depends on how important those LPTV stations are for you to receive. I see you set your antenna height at 13 feet. Is this antenna going to be a second floor indoor antenna or a rooftop antenna for a single story house? If your setup is going to be the former, you probably will only get TV stations with a field strength of "Good" or "Fair." If it's the latter, then you can add stations listed as "Poor" to the mix. Just remember to get a all-band antenna if want to receive VHF stations like WPCW and WQED.

The reason you have TV stations so close to you with "Fair" of "Poor" signal quality is due to high ground (to your NW) partially blocking those signals. If that hill wasn't there, those weaker Pittsburgh signals would be coming in like gangbusters.
Yes I know all of that. I was using 13 feet because it didn't seem like I needed to get any higher to get even a lot of the weak channels. I'll be using a Winegard HD8200U antenna, I wanted something that would do further distances. It's a one story house where the back side is only one story, hence 13 feet is above the roofline. I was used to the Noise Margin data from TVFool, is Rabbit Ears Signal Margin data the same idea/info roughly? (ie - needing enough antenna gain to outdo negative signal/noise margins for positive numbers etc.) I was comparing notes to what I currently get with a worse antenna at a worse location, and feel like my odds are pretty decent for even WFMJ and WNEO from Youngstown (obviously will get all the low power channels).

Thanks.
rockin1jr is offline  
post #5016 of 5030 Old 03-07-2020, 07:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Brian in CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Fairfield, Conn.
Posts: 287
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockin1jr View Post
I'll be using a Winegard HD8200U antenna, I wanted something that would do further distances. It's a one story house where the back side is only one story, hence 13 feet is above the roofline. I was used to the Noise Margin data from TVFool, is Rabbit Ears Signal Margin data the same idea/info roughly? (ie - needing enough antenna gain to outdo negative signal/noise margins for positive numbers etc.) I was comparing notes to what I currently get with a worse antenna at a worse location, and feel like my odds are pretty decent for even WFMJ and WNEO from Youngstown (obviously will get all the low power channels).

Thanks.
The Winegard HD8200U looks like a very nice piece of equipment. This model could probably outdo the range of my Channel Master. Now I know why you were worried about signal overload with a preamp. That said, receiving Youngstown with any antenna from your location is going to be very difficult (unless you get a lucky bounce). The boast about having a "65+ mile range," if true, would be for distance over flat terrain. Additionally, most of the mileage figures I see are holdovers from the analog era. With your preamp, WTAE (on RF 27) should come in fine when your antenna is pointed at the other Pittsburgh TV stations. This "null" position should keep that station from overloading. You also have a repeater for that station in Pittsburgh proper (RF 22) you should receive, too.

I believe "Noise Margin" and "Signal Margin" are the same thing. You can contact Trip, the webmaster for RabbitEars, just to make sure.

Last edited by Brian in CT; 03-07-2020 at 07:20 PM.
Brian in CT is offline  
post #5017 of 5030 Old 04-23-2020, 05:17 AM
Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 48
ATSC 3.0 in Pittsburgh

I see in LMS this morning WPNT will be the Next Gen station in Pittsburgh and will shed its primary ATSC 1.0 stream to WPGH and the multicast streams to WTAE. According the the exhibit in the filing they're supposed to notify viewers 30 days out. I'm kind of excited to see how this plays out.
PA_MainyYak likes this.

Bob
C.E. WFMJ/WBCB
Chief Engineer is offline  
post #5018 of 5030 Old 04-23-2020, 09:54 AM
Advanced Member
 
firemantom26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wintersville, Ohio
Posts: 512
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Engineer View Post
I see in LMS this morning WPNT will be the Next Gen station in Pittsburgh and will shed its primary ATSC 1.0 stream to WPGH and the multicast streams to WTAE. According the the exhibit in the filing they're supposed to notify viewers 30 days out. I'm kind of excited to see how this plays out.

I apologize but I’m not quite understanding what this is going to do


Sent from my iPhone XR using Tapatalk

Tom
firemantom26 is offline  
post #5019 of 5030 Old 04-23-2020, 10:10 AM
Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by firemantom26 View Post
I apologize but I’m not quite understanding what this is going to do


Sent from my iPhone XR using Tapatalk

Once they make the transition, WPNT will be broadcasting in ATSC 3.0 which is not compatible with all our existing ATSC 1.0 tuners. The brand name for ATSC 3.0 is Next Gen TV. By law, any station that transitions to ATSC 3 must make their primary and multicast stream available through a sharing arrangement with an ATSC station so all the viewers with existing tuners don't lose channels. Based on the applications filed WPNT will move MyTV to WPGH and Stadium, Comet, and TBD to WTAE.
Brian in CT likes this.

Bob
C.E. WFMJ/WBCB
Chief Engineer is offline  
post #5020 of 5030 Old 04-24-2020, 10:42 AM
Advanced Member
 
PA_MainyYak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Johnstown, PA
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Engineer View Post
Once they make the transition, WPNT will be broadcasting in ATSC 3.0 which is not compatible with all our existing ATSC 1.0 tuners. The brand name for ATSC 3.0 is Next Gen TV. By law, any station that transitions to ATSC 3 must make their primary and multicast stream available through a sharing arrangement with an ATSC station so all the viewers with existing tuners don't lose channels. Based on the applications filed WPNT will move MyTV to WPGH and Stadium, Comet, and TBD to WTAE.

The other side of the equation is that WPNT will be able to carry a largish number of x.1 feeds from the other Pittsburgh stations on the Next Gen (ATSC 3.0) standard. Their own MyTV feed, probably WTAE’s ABC feed, WPGH’s Fox feed, and maybe others will be carried, as well as some number of subchannels. Next Gen uses the available bandwidth on a given TV channel far more efficiently.

"One of the few good things about modern times: If you die horribly on television, you will not have died in vain. You will have entertained us."
- Kurt Vonnegut
-0-
PA_MainyYak is offline  
post #5021 of 5030 Old 04-25-2020, 07:46 PM
Member
 
Soon2Bdark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Engineer View Post
Once they make the transition, WPNT will be broadcasting in ATSC 3.0 which is not compatible with all our existing ATSC 1.0 tuners. The brand name for ATSC 3.0 is Next Gen TV. By law, any station that transitions to ATSC 3 must make their primary and multicast stream available through a sharing arrangement with an ATSC station so all the viewers with existing tuners don't lose channels. Based on the applications filed WPNT will move MyTV to WPGH and Stadium, Comet, and TBD to WTAE.
I'm guessing that it would be possible for the MyTV, Stadium, Comet, and TBD streams to still map as 22.x channels after being moved to WPGH and WTAE to avoid utter confusion.
Soon2Bdark is offline  
post #5022 of 5030 Old 04-25-2020, 07:49 PM
Advanced Member
 
PA_MainyYak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Johnstown, PA
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soon2Bdark View Post
I'm guessing that it would be possible for the MyTV, Stadium, Comet, and TBD streams to still map as 22.x channels after being moved to WPGH and WTAE to avoid utter confusion.

That is how is is supposed to be done..

"One of the few good things about modern times: If you die horribly on television, you will not have died in vain. You will have entertained us."
- Kurt Vonnegut
-0-
PA_MainyYak is offline  
post #5023 of 5030 Old 04-26-2020, 03:55 AM
Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soon2Bdark View Post
I'm guessing that it would be possible for the MyTV, Stadium, Comet, and TBD streams to still map as 22.x channels after being moved to WPGH and WTAE to avoid utter confusion.

Yes, they've stipulated that in the attachment to the filing. 22.x will remain.

Bob
C.E. WFMJ/WBCB
Chief Engineer is offline  
post #5024 of 5030 Old 05-09-2020, 09:13 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Does anybody know what happened to Decades? Was watching at about 1:20 this morning, and it went out all of a sudden and when it came back it was mirroring HSN. When I did a rescan, it was gone.
ViQueen33 is offline  
post #5025 of 5030 Old 05-10-2020, 09:22 AM
wbf
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Pittsburgh - North Hills
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViQueen33 View Post
Does anybody know what happened to Decades? Was watching at about 1:20 this morning, and it went out all of a sudden and when it came back it was mirroring HSN. When I did a rescan, it was gone.
WOSC and WPTG experience frequent technical problems, which seems to be a common theme for HC2 stations. They eventually sort things out in a few hours (or days) so don't panic when one or more of their subs suddenly go missing or some other glitch occurs. Decades is back but you probably know that already.
wbf is offline  
post #5026 of 5030 Old 05-10-2020, 02:55 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbf View Post
WOSC and WPTG experience frequent technical problems, which seems to be a common theme for HC2 stations. They eventually sort things out in a few hours (or days) so don't panic when one or more of their subs suddenly go missing or some other glitch occurs. Decades is back but you probably know that already.
Right you are! Thanks for letting me know!
ViQueen33 is offline  
post #5027 of 5030 Old 05-21-2020, 07:10 AM
Member
 
rockin1jr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southwestern PA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 10
LTE noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in CT View Post
The Winegard HD8200U looks like a very nice piece of equipment. This model could probably outdo the range of my Channel Master. Now I know why you were worried about signal overload with a preamp. That said, receiving Youngstown with any antenna from your location is going to be very difficult (unless you get a lucky bounce). The boast about having a "65+ mile range," if true, would be for distance over flat terrain. Additionally, most of the mileage figures I see are holdovers from the analog era. With your preamp, WTAE (on RF 27) should come in fine when your antenna is pointed at the other Pittsburgh TV stations. This "null" position should keep that station from overloading. You also have a repeater for that station in Pittsburgh proper (RF 22) you should receive, too.

I believe "Noise Margin" and "Signal Margin" are the same thing. You can contact Trip, the webmaster for RabbitEars, just to make sure.
I have moved, and have my antenna up/everything set up. I am mostly ok with my reception, WTOV is my furthest/weakest signal out of the whole bunch (https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...study_id=66813).

But with my height, and the size of my antenna, I wasn't getting any of the weaker signals. Other than curve of the earth and just them being too weak, is there any possibility that I have some LTE interference?

I know there's 2 LTE towers within 2 miles of my location, one of them is right by (or on the WPCB tower).

Also, I posted this in the Receivers, Amps and Processors forum, but I have an FM6 FM antenna, and my reception there is lacking. I have a portable radio (CCrane product) that gets better reception, so what could the FM6 be picking up to hamper my reception on my tuner (Sherwood)? Could that be something with LTE also?

Each antenna has it's own line leading into the house.

Thanks in advance.
rockin1jr is offline  
post #5028 of 5030 Old 05-21-2020, 06:32 PM
Senior Member
 
Brian in CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Fairfield, Conn.
Posts: 287
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockin1jr View Post
I have moved, and have my antenna up/everything set up. I am mostly ok with my reception, WTOV is my furthest/weakest signal out of the whole bunch (https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...study_id=66813).

But with my height, and the size of my antenna, I wasn't getting any of the weaker signals. Other than curve of the earth and just them being too weak, is there any possibility that I have some LTE interference?

I know there's 2 LTE towers within 2 miles of my location, one of them is right by (or on the WPCB tower).

Also, I posted this in the Receivers, Amps and Processors forum, but I have an FM6 FM antenna, and my reception there is lacking. I have a portable radio (CCrane product) that gets better reception, so what could the FM6 be picking up to hamper my reception on my tuner (Sherwood)? Could that be something with LTE also?

Each antenna has it's own line leading into the house.

Thanks in advance.
First of all, great job receiving WTOV from your location. Not only does your predicted field strength for WTOV rate "bad" (which usually means you're out of luck), but the terrain path shows a lot of high ground that should be blocking the signal. Maybe it's that lucky bounce I mentioned before.

If you're receiving everything coming in stronger than WTOV on the results table (that you're pointed at), you're doing well. An antenna mounted at 13 feet AGL usually ends up dealing with street level obstructions that could cause reflections. Unfortunately, even if you doubled the height, receiving Youngstown might be a bridge too far.

I would only worry about LTE interference if there is a cell site within a half mile. That's my rule of thumb. LTE only affects TV reception on the UHF band, so if any of your Pittsburgh based UHF TV stations are pixelating, LTE might be the culprit. Then again at 13 feet, you might be dealing with trees or reflected signals (like off neighboring houses).

Your FM6 antenna should be working better than a dipole. Are you trying to listen to IBOC on FM? If so, then that's out of my wheelhouse. If you're not receiving many analog FM stations, then I'd check your setup. Even a misaimed FM6 FM antenna should be giving you all the Pittsburgh area FM stations. A radio guy hopefully will give you some good advice on that.
Brian in CT is offline  
post #5029 of 5030 Old 05-21-2020, 07:18 PM
Member
 
rockin1jr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southwestern PA
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in CT View Post
First of all, great job receiving WTOV from your location. Not only does your predicted field strength for WTOV rate "bad" (which usually means you're out of luck), but the terrain path shows a lot of high ground that should be blocking the signal. Maybe it's that lucky bounce I mentioned before.

If you're receiving everything coming in stronger than WTOV on the results table (that you're pointed at), you're doing well. An antenna mounted at 13 feet AGL usually ends up dealing with street level obstructions that could cause reflections. Unfortunately, even if you doubled the height, receiving Youngstown might be a bridge too far.

I would only worry about LTE interference if there is a cell site within a half mile. That's my rule of thumb. LTE only affects TV reception on the UHF band, so if any of your Pittsburgh based UHF TV stations are pixelating, LTE might be the culprit. Then again at 13 feet, you might be dealing with trees or reflected signals (like off neighboring houses).

Your FM6 antenna should be working better than a dipole. Are you trying to listen to IBOC on FM? If so, then that's out of my wheelhouse. If you're not receiving many analog FM stations, then I'd check your setup. Even a misaimed FM6 FM antenna should be giving you all the Pittsburgh area FM stations. A radio guy hopefully will give you some good advice on that.
Well the antenna ended up being at 11 feet, wasn't able to get it any higher. I am at a really high spot, to the point that I can usually get all the Pittsburgh full power tv stations with an indoor antenna.

I didn't know at which range LTE bothers the mid/upper UHF channels, but since I'm 1.5 mi from the closest one, then it's probably not an issue. All of my channels have strong signals, WTOV is the only one that pixelates at times (ie during a storm).

And with the FM reception, yes mostly conventional FM (some IBOC, some solely analog). Just the part that puzzles me is I get better reception on my CC radio. I could check the contacts on the 300 ohm to 75 ohm adapter on the antenna itself and the connection there. I know the cabling is fine, it's the same cable I used at the old location. Same with my grounding block and splitter. I get all my Pittsburgh FMs no matter what I do, it's the Youngstown ones and one from Butler that it gets worse. And of course I can get these on the CC radio outside. It's just weird.

Thanks though
rockin1jr is offline  
post #5030 of 5030 Old 05-22-2020, 06:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Brian in CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Fairfield, Conn.
Posts: 287
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockin1jr View Post
Well the antenna ended up being at 11 feet, wasn't able to get it any higher. I am at a really high spot, to the point that I can usually get all the Pittsburgh full power tv stations with an indoor antenna.

I didn't know at which range LTE bothers the mid/upper UHF channels, but since I'm 1.5 mi from the closest one, then it's probably not an issue. All of my channels have strong signals, WTOV is the only one that pixelates at times (ie during a storm).
Like I stated earlier in this thread, if the terrain wasn't so rugged to your north and west, you would be able to receive all the Pittsburgh TV stations (including LPTVs) with a modest indoor antenna. Unfortunately, your high spot is mostly surrounded by higher spots acting as obstructions. The question now is weather you want to keep such a huge TV antenna just to receive WTOV. If not, you may want to trade in the HD8200U (if you can) for a moderately sized duel band rooftop antenna.
Brian in CT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off