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post #10171 of 11001 Old 04-11-2018, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post
Sick and tired of getting taken by Spectrum. I've already started using YoutubeTV to get a lot of Cable/Satellite Channels and get the family prepared for the transition. I currently use two Silicon Dust HDHR Prime CableCARD tuners and WMC with multiple Ceton Echo Extenders and an xBox 360 for a whole home solution. First I'm going to drop down to Spectrum Select or even just plain ole basic.. Then I'm getting a Silicon Dust HDHR Quatro and an antenna. I'm out east and to not go into exact specifics but west of March AFB. Here's my plot from FoolTV (strangely KCBS is missing but it shows up on AntennaWeb).


The rear of my house has 33x240w solar photo-voltaic system with 33x215w MicroInverters on it (glad to see those posts so recently to mine as I didn't even think of the effects of that). This whole portion of the roof faces almost due south and I have a gable roof. At any rate, I'm trying to figure on a decent antenna to get and was thinking of mounting it to the barge rafter at the peak of the gable roof as there's a pretty clear shot to Mt. Wilson from there but now I'm wondering about interference from the solar panels..

I'm currently considering the following but am open to suggestions:

Channel Master Altratenna 60

or

LAVA 8008 Omnidirectional

TIA
Not sure about those Omni directional antennas, but the double bow ties are geared toward UHF mostly, unless you're pretty close to the transmitters.
I've installed a few of these https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=HDB4X BUT they always have trouble with KABC, KCAL, KTTV, and KCOP because these stations are H-VHF.
Sooo we've had to install 2 antennas (one larger VHF and the HDB4X) and combine them into the RCA pre-amp to receive all UHF and VHF stations. Without the separate VHF antenna, you may pick up H-VHF stations at certain times of the day or year but it can be frustrating when you're wanting to watch/record a show that starts at 8pm and then the station drops at 7:30pm!

The HDB4X's frequently go on sale for $24.99 at Solid Signal or on Amazon.
I've installed 3 of these in Claremont, Los Angeles (Griffith Park area), and Ontario.
The Ontario install has no problems with H-VHF because it's pretty much LOS.
The Claremont install has issues with KABC and KCAL. (I'll be adding a small VHF antenna to this one this week.)
The Los Angeles install has issues with KABC and KCAL.

As far as solar panels, I can only speak for myself. My neighbor behind me one door down has panels directly in my LOS to Mt. Wilson. Late in the afternoon KABC and KCAL seem to drop out. Not sure if it's his invertors or panels or just a low freq. interference...?
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Large HD8200XL antenna with HDB91X and RCA preamp and a RCA VH226F rotor motor
,aimed at Mt. Wilson (Los Angeles) from Etiwanda area.
CM3410 Dist. amp in attic for a 5 room hookup.
Located in foothills behind Mt. Baldy, and experiencing signal loss and pixelation depending on time of day.

Last edited by DrDon; 04-12-2018 at 06:18 AM.
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post #10172 of 11001 Old 04-11-2018, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Teeps View Post
Who is your internet provlder?
LOL

Spectrum, but the other choice is UVerse and that's not happening!

It's the TV that's the rub.

Right now I'm on a retention promo Gold Package @ $84 + garbage fees listed above but frankly we don't watch all that any more and there's other ways to watch anyhow. En total it is north of $100 a month for TV!

Even Basic is $24 + 2 x $2 for CableCARDS + $9 Broadcast TV Surcharge + $10 tax and license or around $47 every month.

I know I loose the $10 combo credit on the Internet so that makes it $37 a month but after a year the tuner and antenna are paid for.

I'm locked in @ $35 on YoutubeTV and they even have the major locals anyhow with no bogus Broadcast TV Surcharge. I use Emby and have an extensive and constantly revolving media library on top of that.

Maybe I don't even need an antenna at all!?

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post #10173 of 11001 Old 04-11-2018, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerrymc777 View Post
Not sure about those Omni directional antennas, but the double bow ties are geared toward UHF mostly, unless you're pretty close to the transmitters.
I've installed a few of these https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=HDB4X BUT they always have trouble with KABC, KCAL, KTTV, and KCOP because these stations are H-VHF.
Sooo we've had to install 2 antennas (one larger VHF and the HDB4X) and combine them into the RCA pre-amp to receive all UHF and VHF stations. Without the separate VHF antenna, you may pick up H-VHF stations at certain times of the day or year but it can be frustrating when you're wanting to watch/record a show that starts at 8pm and then the station drops at 7:30pm!

The HDB4X's frequently go on sale for $24.99 at Solid Signal or on Amazon.
I've installed 3 of these in Claremont, Los Angeles (Griffith Park area), and Ontario.
The Ontario install has no problems with H-VHF because it's pretty much LOS.
The Claremont install has issues with KABC and KCAL. (I'll be adding a small VHF antenna to this one this week.)
The Los Angeles install has issues with KABC and KCAL.

As far as solar panels, I can only speak for myself. My neighbor behind me one door down has panels directly in my LOS to Mt. Wilson. Late in the afternoon KABC and KCAL seem to drop out. Not sure if it's his invertors or panels or just a low freq. interference...?
It seems the antenna you linked was a smaller Bowtie?

As far as Claremont goes, that is buried in the base of a mountain on the other side of Mt. Wilson so I can see that being an issue. I'm not sure about the Los Angeles installation because that can be anywhere.. In the flats of the Valley or the hills of Calabasas or just about anywhere without a clear shot of the towers on Mt. Wilson. Ontario, well that's in the flats with a pretty clear shot at maybe 25 to 30 miles to the towers so that should work pretty well.

As my plot shows, I'm 48 miles or so out at 285ish degrees but there's some locals in other directions, hence the omnidirectional.. BTW, both these antennae came up in the ad links on AntennaWeb but that doesn't mean they're the best for me. My house is higher up if you know the lay of the land to the west of March AFB, we're higher up than Ontario and (from the roof anyhow) have a clear shot across the valley towards the mountains north of LA where Mt Wilson is.

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post #10174 of 11001 Old 04-11-2018, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post
LOL

Spectrum, but the other choice is UVerse and that's not happening!

It's the TV that's the rub. Even Basic is $24 + 2 x $2 for CableCARDS + $9 Broadcast TV Surcharge + $10 tax and license or around $47 every month.

Right now I'm on a retention promo Gold Package @ $84 + garbage fees listed above but frankly we don't watch all that any more and there's other ways to watch anyhow. En total it is north of $100 a month for TV!

I know I lose the $10 combo credit on the Internet so that makes it $37 a month but after a year the tuner and antenna are paid for.

I'm locked in @ $35 on YoutubeTV and they even have the major locals anyhow with no bogus Broadcast TV Surcharge. I use Emby and have an extensive and constantly revolving media library on top of that.

Maybe I don't even need an antenna at all!?
Understood and agree about cable tv pricing/service.
But, how much is your internet service going to go up because you are no longer in the bundle pricing scheme?

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post #10175 of 11001 Old 04-11-2018, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Teeps View Post
Understood and agree about cable tv pricing/service.
But, how much is your internet service going to go up because you are no longer in the bundle pricing scheme?
$10 a month. With the savings on the TV I may get the 300Mbps internet which is $25 more than I'm paying now. Fast internet is more important to me now.. Fortunately Spectrum has no caps (yet) and agreed to not throttle services as part of taking over TWC. Frankly, I've been with Spectrum for a very long time and am still happy with them but am just moving away from CableTV..
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post #10176 of 11001 Old 04-11-2018, 09:26 AM
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Does anyone know of a way to get an estimate of the clarity of the line of sight from a particular residence to the tower location? I've tried Google maps street view and photos from both directions and it is really hard to see quite as far as the tower or the general location of my house..

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post #10177 of 11001 Old 04-11-2018, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post
I'm currently considering the following but am open to suggestions:

Channel Master Altratenna 60

or

LAVA 8008 Omnidirectional

TIA
I'm in Oxnard, and 68 miles from Mt. Wilson. I'm using the next one up from that Channel Master, a 4228 with an 80 mile range. Same configuration but a little larger. It works really well, better than the equivalent Antennas Direct model (Clear Stream or something) that I had before.

I don't trust the Lava antenna for some reason. I'm not confident in omni-directional antennas that state "40 to 80 miles but reaches up to 130 miles". Sounds like hype to me. I like Channel Master, Winegard and Antennas Direct.
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post #10178 of 11001 Old 04-11-2018, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post
Does anyone know of a way to get an estimate of the clarity of the line of sight from a particular residence to the tower location? I've tried Google maps street view and photos from both directions and it is really hard to see quite as far as the tower or the general location of my house..
TVFool.com

Large HD8200XL antenna with HDB91X and RCA preamp and a RCA VH226F rotor motor
,aimed at Mt. Wilson (Los Angeles) from Etiwanda area.
CM3410 Dist. amp in attic for a 5 room hookup.
Located in foothills behind Mt. Baldy, and experiencing signal loss and pixelation depending on time of day.
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post #10179 of 11001 Old 04-11-2018, 01:17 PM
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TVFool.com


That's what I used. So the dB values in the plot above should be close to what I expect to get?

Thanks.

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post #10180 of 11001 Old 04-11-2018, 01:33 PM
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Guys, let's PLEASE don't use the word "rape" casually as we have victims of such abuse frequenting these forums and they're way more than a little offended by this.

Posts edited

Thanks and please try to be more considerate of the women who frequent this forum.
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post #10181 of 11001 Old 04-11-2018, 01:42 PM
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Guys, let's PLEASE don't use the word "rape" casually as we have victims of such abuse frequenting these forums and they're way more than a little offended by this.

I will leave it to all of you to go back and kindly edit it out of your posts and quoted posts. If I have to do it, it'll come with an infraction.

Thanks and please try to be more considerate of the women who frequent this forum.
Fixed and sorry to offend.
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post #10182 of 11001 Old 04-11-2018, 11:10 PM
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Were any UHF antennas ever re-designed for 14-51 (vs 69)? It sure doesn't seem like it. Maybe they were waiting for the 14-36 it's becoming now?

In any event, it seems my Winegard 8800 is still king in this range, but it's no longer made. Any other suggestions? I'm trying to help a friend in Ladera Ranch, with his attic antenna. He can't get 28 at all for some reason when 18 and 31 are quite good on his CM4221. And if I'm going to replace that antenna, I might as well get something optimized for 14-36.

Thanks,
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post #10183 of 11001 Old 04-12-2018, 04:15 AM
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Were any UHF antennas ever re-designed for 14-51 (vs 69)? It sure doesn't seem like it.
The only ones I know of from the larger companies that were, for certain, redesigned for the post 2009 UHF band were the bowties ("e"-series) and the Clearstream loop antennas from Antennas Direct. Winegard discontinued their UHF-only antennas and has never changed the UHF portion of their combo models. AntennaCraft went out of business having never changed theirs. Channel Master changed their marketing literature but there wasn't any evidence that they changed the actual design of the antennas.

It will probably be a couple of years before anything redesigned yet again for 14-36 shows up, if at all.
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post #10184 of 11001 Old 04-12-2018, 05:18 AM
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I'm in Oxnard, and 68 miles from Mt. Wilson. I'm using the next one up from that Channel Master, a 4228 with an 80 mile range. Same configuration but a little larger. It works really well, better than the equivalent Antennas Direct model (Clear Stream or something) that I had before.

I don't trust the Lava antenna for some reason. I'm not confident in omni-directional antennas that state "40 to 80 miles but reaches up to 130 miles". Sounds like hype to me. I like Channel Master, Winegard and Antennas Direct.
Under the right conditions you can get long range on an antennae, but omni directional is no substitute for a more directional antennae and a proper rotor and at 68 miles an omni won't help distance. You are not trying to pull in stations from Santa Barbara also are you.
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post #10185 of 11001 Old 04-12-2018, 06:51 AM
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The only ones I know of from the larger companies that were, for certain, redesigned for the post 2009 UHF band were the bowties ("e"-series) and the Clearstream loop antennas from Antennas Direct. Winegard discontinued their UHF-only antennas and has never changed the UHF portion of their combo models. AntennaCraft went out of business having never changed theirs. Channel Master changed their marketing literature but there wasn't any evidence that they changed the actual design of the antennas.

It will probably be a couple of years before anything redesigned yet again for 14-36 shows up, if at all.
Thank you. So, the situation is as bad as I thought then. I might have better luck getting an antenna from the UK then, for their Group A, which is not cheap to do from here.

Why are the US manufacturers dragging their feet on this with OTA uptake on the rise for years? They can't say it's for Canada and Mexico sales I'm sure as they also dropped 51-69, didn't they?

Edit:

What do we know about this antenna?

GE 29884 Pro Outdoor/Attic Mount Antenna

Also, the Antennas Direct e series aren't cheap.

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post #10186 of 11001 Old 04-12-2018, 07:15 AM
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Under the right conditions you can get long range on an antennae, but omni directional is no substitute for a more directional antennae and a proper rotor and at 68 miles an omni won't help distance. You are not trying to pull in stations from Santa Barbara also are you.
His response was answering my question but for me all the "majors" are on Mt. Wilson (of course) @ 290ish° but I have a few "minors" to the NNE of me.

Unless the rotator is automated and not outrageously expensive I think maybe two antennae and a combiner. Or am I just flat out wrong in my thinking?


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post #10187 of 11001 Old 04-12-2018, 07:43 AM
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His response was answering my question but for me all the "majors" are on Mt. Wilson (of course) @ 290ish° but I have a few "minors" to the NNE of me.

Unless the rotator is automated and not outrageously expensive I think maybe two antennae and a combiner. Or am I just flat out wrong in my thinking?


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The two antennaes with a combiner would be the way to go, especially if you want to record a program while you're away. You won't have to worry about which way the antennae is pointed which can be a problem with a rotor.
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post #10188 of 11001 Old 04-12-2018, 07:49 AM
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The two antennaes with a combiner would be the way to go, especially if you want to record a program while you're away. You won't have to worry about which way the antennae is pointed which can be a problem with a rotor.
Any suggestions on good combiners?

Also, looking at my plot, would I need 3 antennae?

Also looking at this post too..


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post #10189 of 11001 Old 04-12-2018, 08:02 AM
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Another question comes to mind..

What if I use the bow tie aimed towards Mt. Wilson and a smaller Yagi aimed towards the other stations nearer to me on the same pole?

New to OTA as things have changed since going Cable back in the 80's.. pretty much all my adult life. When I was a kid, my dad just had a big Yagi type on the roof and we got ever other channel in the range 2 - 13 in glorious, snowy B&W and I think that channel 7, KABC didn't come in at all.

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post #10190 of 11001 Old 04-12-2018, 09:25 AM
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What stations to your northeast are you trying to receive? Other than KVCR, which is super powerful and may well come in off the back of the antenna, I'm not sure I see much in that direction worth your time. (And KVCR is moving to low-VHF early next year and will need a different antenna at that point anyway.)

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post #10191 of 11001 Old 04-12-2018, 10:24 AM
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Good point. I looked at TitanTV and none of those even have programming I want to see so if they come in, great, if not, oh well.

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post #10192 of 11001 Old 04-12-2018, 10:36 AM
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And that brings up another point.. Do I even need to bother if I'm already using YoutubeTV to get some of my CableTV channels and it includes the major local channels anyhow?

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post #10193 of 11001 Old 04-12-2018, 06:49 PM
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And that brings up another point.. Do I even need to bother if I'm already using YoutubeTV to get some of my CableTV channels and it includes the major local channels anyhow?
If you don't watch anything beyond ABC,NBC,CBS, FOX, PBS, and The CW (KTLA) and don't mind using cloud dvrs and on demand you don't need OTA if you have solid internet. OTA can give a little better picture quality and consistent 5.1 sound compared to streaming but with the OTT options like YouTube TV it just easier to try the streaming option. You can always mess with an antenna later on if you have to/Want to.

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post #10194 of 11001 Old 04-13-2018, 07:26 AM
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If you don't watch anything beyond ABC,NBC,CBS, FOX, PBS, and The CW (KTLA) and don't mind using cloud dvrs and on demand you don't need OTA if you have solid internet. OTA can give a little better picture quality and consistent 5.1 sound compared to streaming but with the OTT options like YouTube TV it just easier to try the streaming option. You can always mess with an antenna later on if you have to/Want to.
I don't DVR the locals much anymore anyhow.. I use Sonarr, et al, for that. We have 100/10 internet and with the savings on CableTV can spring for 300/20. Spectrum in my area is and has been very reliable plus as it is now if the internet goes down pretty much so does the TV signal as it is all on the same RG11 cable.

I'm looking at the line up with all the ##.# stations but I still don't see a whole lot OTA beyond what I can get on YoutubeTV, which I got to fill in some sports and news that isn't OTA.

Just wondering if it is really worth the effort but knowing me I'll probably do it.

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post #10195 of 11001 Old 04-15-2018, 12:52 AM
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Well ...

TiVo/Rovi ("finally") got their virtual guide info. channel mapping for KAZA-54 (Physical RF 27-7) correct today.

But will now have to focus on KAZA/KHTV-CD's side of the problem, which is for some reason my TiVo's OTA tuners as well as a number of TV ATSC tuners here cannot get a program lock on that station.

Can only receive chs. KAZA 54-1 and KHTV-CD 27-1 to 27-5 by tuning to their physical ch. numbers 27-7, 27-9 to 27-13. Not by their virtual channels which mainly creates problems for the DVR.

Does anyone know of a contact Ph. number or email for KAZA/KHTV-CD's engineering?

Having trouble locating any ...

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post #10196 of 11001 Old 04-15-2018, 03:48 AM
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To note; ....

When you can only tune a station by its physical channel number on a TV's ATSC tuner due to missing or flakey PSIP channel mapping info. from the station, there's no program guide info.

Which is no real biggie for KAZA or the Spanish KHTV-CD channels (they're in a CSA) since they're not broadcasting any PSIP guide info. anyway (nor do I care about the KHTV-CD chs.) But on the OTA TiVo it causes a problem because stations which can only be tuned by their physical channel numbers may only be received and viewed on the TiVo server and can't be streamed live to Mini clients.

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post #10197 of 11001 Old 04-16-2018, 03:47 PM
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Just saw a message that April 23rd is "Rescan Day" at KLCS 50.x. It will be interesting to see how my Channels App DVR handles the change.

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post #10198 of 11001 Old 04-16-2018, 05:36 PM
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Just saw a message that April 23rd is "Rescan Day" at KLCS 50.x. It will be interesting to see how my Channels App DVR handles the change.
+1 here as well, for my TiVo Roamio OTA ...

Though the inauspicious start of the very slow way and repeated calls by me which TiVo/Rovi handled the CSA of KAZA-54 and KHTV-CD 27. I'm not optimistic about the coming CSA of KLCS-58 and KCET-28 next Monday.

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Last edited by HoTatII; 04-16-2018 at 05:51 PM.
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post #10199 of 11001 Old 04-16-2018, 08:16 PM
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+1 here as well, for my TiVo Roamio OTA ...

Though the inauspicious start of the very slow way and repeated calls by me which TiVo/Rovi handled the CSA of KAZA-54 and KHTV-CD 27. I'm not optimistic about the coming CSA of KLCS-58 and KCET-28 next Monday.

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I unplugged my Roamio OTA last week so I know the pain

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post #10200 of 11001 Old 04-23-2018, 02:58 AM
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Well ...

The CSA of KLCS-58 and KCET-28 began sometime after midnight ...

So far at least the good news is that KLCS primary channel 58-1 is now in 720p HD. The bad, if you were interested in that network, is that "First Nations Experience" (FNX) formerly on 58-4, was dropped apparently to create bandwidth for the HD channel.

KCET also dropped "KCETLink+" on 28-3 and moved the NHK network there from 28-4 for bandwidth as well. So bad news for those who liked that channel too.

So the new KLCS/KCET CSA combo looks like this.

Vir. 28-1 (RF phy. 28.1) KCET-HD
Vir. 28-2 (RF phy. 28.2) KCETLink (ws SD)
Vir. 28-3 (RF phy. 28.3) NHK (ws SD)
Vir. 58-1 (RF phy. 28.4) KLCS-HD (PBS)
Vir. 58-2 (RF phy. 28.5) PBS Kids (ws SD)
Vir. 58-3 (RF phy. 28.6) Create (ws SD)

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ch 2.1 , ch 43.1 , grand wega , kcbs , Ota , pasadena ca

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