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post #10411 of 10905 Old 07-25-2018, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
KRCA virtual 62-1 & 2 has started the process of transitioning to subchannels of physical 7. It is now visible there, but is also still on physical 35 (as of 7/21 early AM). Having the same virtual channels on two physical channels could cause problems so I DON'T recommend doing a rescan until physical 35 goes off the air which presumably will happen soon.

This is part of a game of Musical Chairs which will include KTLA moving from physical 31 to 35 and then KCBS vacating 43 for 31.

EDIT: As of 7/23 AM physical 35 is off the air.
And needing of mention as well I guess is that KJLA 57-1 and six of it's subchannels (Their remaining ten subchannels are still sharing RF 23 with KVMD-31) have vacated their former RF 49 and entered a CSA with KXLA-44 on RF 51. Which will in turn move to RF 30 sometime during the next repack transition phase.

I think this should complete the implementations for all the CSAs in this market. With the next repack phase set for between 12/1/18-4/12/19 involving wholesale RF channel movements for both CS and non-CS stations to either get below RF 36. Or if already under RF 36, to move around and clear channels for stations coming from above RF 36.

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post #10412 of 10905 Old 07-26-2018, 11:12 AM
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Oh ... and as usual TiVo/Rovi's slowness in adjusting to these repack changes (for the LA market at least) is causing messy guide issues on my TiVo OTAs.

With the former listings for KRCA and KJLA now receiving no signal (V52 error) since the guide mappings are now pointing to the wrong RF channels.

And the new guide listings detected after a rescan appearing underneath the old ones with the correct RF channel mappings, but without any guide info. for program descriptions ("Title not available").

Sign ...

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post #10413 of 10905 Old 07-26-2018, 12:40 PM
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Hopefully Schedules Direct and Gracenote will be more on the ball.

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post #10414 of 10905 Old 09-03-2018, 07:26 PM
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Decades in LA

anyone know when decades will show up on channel 54-2 as it says on decades. I have no channel 54-2 as yet?
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post #10415 of 10905 Old 09-03-2018, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Sitcomics View Post
anyone know when decades will show up on channel 54-2 as it says on decades. I have no channel 54-2 as yet?
Oh great ....

Didn't even realize this had happened ...

That means it's on KAZA 54-2, which channel shares on low power Spanish station KHTV-CD 27. Where you may have noticed a lot written about earlier on this thread regarding its reception problems and formerly errant PSIP data it took forever for them (with help from posters here) to get straightened out.

I hope you can receive its weak signal.

Just checked the TV's ATSC tuner, and it's indeed picking up DECADES now on 54-2. And like MeTV on 54-1, the station has no PSIP info. for any EPG.

My TiVo OTA guide has nothing yet on this change (no surprise there). But a rescan brings it in, without any EPG program descriptions of course ("Title not available").

But the biggest problem with my TiVo now is with DECADES moving to crappy low power KHTV-CD. Is to figure out a way to receive low power KHTV and full power station KFTR-46, which overloads the TiVo's tuners and breaks up on reception unless I place about 12db of attenuation on the antenna feed. Which kills KHTV's already poor signal.

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post #10416 of 10905 Old 09-04-2018, 08:10 AM
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My EPG still shows Decades on 2.2 but when tuning it shows startTV.

Not sure what that is but I need to contact Schedule Direct to see about getting it updated. Decades will now be one of those channels I rarely watch that I will not watch at all I suppose.

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post #10417 of 10905 Old 09-04-2018, 08:16 AM
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I just checked, and I see that am receiving 54.2 here too. And it is quite strong, about 60% of full scale and very stable.
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post #10418 of 10905 Old 09-04-2018, 09:11 AM
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Oh, and in case anyone's interested...

I asked the tech. supervisor of KAZA/KHTV at the time about the lack of any EPG, program titling, or program run time info. on almost all their subchannels when I spoke with him several months ago to get their PSIP guide mapping data fixed properly.

And he said to look for that to be fixed by early to mid-July when they installed a new PSIP generator.

Well ... you can see how far that claim held up ...

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post #10419 of 10905 Old 09-04-2018, 12:21 PM
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Well ... found out one pleasant surprise ...

I just re-ran the setup for an old AM21 OTA antenna module I have attached to my DIRECTV Genie DVR to see if per chance they made an update to their OTA database for KAZA 54-2.

And much to my shock and surprise, it appeared with full guide info. Even though their programming info. on 2-2 is still erroneous.

Wow ... for someone who's OTA database has been dormnat and seemingly left to "wither on the vine" since '09. DIRECTV is now regularly beating out TiVo/Rovi in updating their guide channels and info. for off-air channels.

Must be in preparation for their new soon to be released OTA USB dongle the "Local Channel Connector" (LCC) to replace the big boxy old AM21 that is now obsolete.

https://support.directv.com/equipmen...-connector-faq

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post #10420 of 10905 Old 09-14-2018, 09:19 AM
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I use a ChannelMaster DVR+ and it uses the Tivo guide data. Decades is still shown for 2.2, although it is really StartTV content.

Channel 54 is evidently too weak for me to receive here; it doesn't even show up on my TV Fool report. Wikipedia lists both MeTV (54.1) and Decades (54.2) there. Wikipedia has the real channel as 27, but for my location real channel 27 is the ABC affiliate in Santa Barbara, KEYT. I actually get that station off the back of my CM 4228 antenna, but the reception is spotty. TV Fool report.

So, buh bye Decades. I actually did watch it from time to time. I liked their historical retrospectives. Kind of a nice twist to the "old reruns" all these sub channels tend to show.
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post #10421 of 10905 Old 09-14-2018, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fshagan View Post
I use a ChannelMaster DVR+ and it uses the Tivo guide data. Decades is still shown for 2.2, although it is really StartTV content.

Channel 54 is evidently too weak for me to receive here; it doesn't even show up on my TV Fool report. Wikipedia lists both MeTV (54.1) and Decades (54.2) there. Wikipedia has the real channel as 27, but for my location real channel 27 is the ABC affiliate in Santa Barbara, KEYT. I actually get that station off the back of my CM 4228 antenna, but the reception is spotty. TV Fool report.

So, buh bye Decades. I actually did watch it from time to time. I liked their historical retrospectives. Kind of a nice twist to the "old reruns" all these sub channels tend to show.
Yeah ...

While I still receive DECADES well after the channel change. I certainly understand your pain here.

As has been discussed on this thread a lot lately KAZA-54 is really a virtual station channel sharing with Spanish KHTV-CD 27 on their low power transmitter at only around 8 KW erp. So no surprise you and others lost DECADES with the move.

Anyway, try looking for KHTV-CD in your TV fool report.

And I don't understand why your CM DVR+ is still showing the listings for the DECADES ch. if it truly uses TiVo/Rovi giude data. Since, after some constant prodding of TiVo tech. support, I'm happy to say the guide is "finally" correct for Start TV as of this morning (although the guide icon still incorrectly has DECADES).

Tivo/Rovi actually changed to Start TV on my two Roamio OTAs and a Mini here over a week ago, but the guide was wrongly advanced by 3 hrs., which I got TiVo/Rovi to correct today.

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post #10422 of 10905 Old 09-15-2018, 09:47 AM
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I am down in Orange county, I too have lost all of my OTA PBS stations, the ones on the 28's 50's and 58's. I see no replacements for them when I rescan. are they as I have read here, being displayed on other channels?

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post #10423 of 10905 Old 09-15-2018, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoTatII View Post
Anyway, try looking for KHTV-CD in your TV fool report.

And I don't understand why your CM DVR+ is still showing the listings for the DECADES ch. if it truly uses TiVo/Rovi giude data. Since, after some constant prodding of TiVo tech. support, I'm happy to say the guide is "finally" correct for Start TV as of this morning (although the guide icon still incorrectly has DECADES).

Tivo/Rovi actually changed to Start TV on my two Roamio OTAs and a Mini here over a week ago, but the guide was wrongly advanced by 3 hrs., which I got TiVo/Rovi to correct today.
I don't see KHTV-CD on my TV Fool report, so no luck there. Also, on the guide data, I had forgotten that ChannelMaster started providing their own guide data shortly after the Rovi/Tivo merger and no longer uses the Tivo guide data. I'll need to contact them for the correction.
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post #10424 of 10905 Old 09-15-2018, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by shivaji View Post
I am down in Orange county, I too have lost all of my OTA PBS stations, the ones on the 28's 50's and 58's. I see no replacements for them when I rescan. are they as I have read here, being displayed on other channels?
Well KCET 28 hasn't been a PBS station for years, but is still broadcasting on RF channel 28, on program stream #s 1, 2, and 3. However KLCS 58 (PBS) recently moved and is now channel sharing with KCET with its main and 2 subchannels on program stream #s 4, 5, and 6 (same RF channel of course).

And KOCE 50 (PBS) with its main and 4 subchannels also recently moved to channel share with KSCI 18 on RF channel 18, program stream #s 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15.

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post #10425 of 10905 Old 09-15-2018, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by HoTatII View Post
Well KCET 28 hasn't been a PBS station for years, but is still broadcasting on RF channel 28, on program stream #s 1, 2, and 3. However KLCS 58 (PBS) recently moved and is now channel sharing with KCET with its main and 2 subchannels on program stream #s 4, 5, and 6 (same RF channel of course).

And KOCE 50 (PBS) with its main and 4 subchannels also recently moved to channel share with KSCI 18 on RF channel 18, program stream #s 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15.

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Thanks for responding. What I get on ksci 18- 11 through 15 all seem to be vietnamese channels. No PBS at all. When a station has moved such as channel 58, does that also mean they are sending their signal from a different tower and maybe my rooftop antenna is no longer receiving its signal? When I do a scan, channel 58 does not have any signal anymore and does not make it to the scanned list.
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post #10426 of 10905 Old 09-15-2018, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by shivaji View Post
Thanks for responding. What I get on ksci 18- 11 through 15 all seem to be vietnamese channels. No PBS at all. When a station has moved such as channel 58, does that also mean they are sending their signal from a different tower and maybe my rooftop antenna is no longer receiving its signal? When I do a scan, channel 58 does not have any signal anymore and does not make it to the scanned list.
What is the device you're scanning with?

And when I said for instance "18 with program stream #s 11-15." I'm referring to "physical RF channel 18, program stream #s 11 through 15, which KOCE is using on KSCI 18's transmitter.

However the channels you see for this are the "virtual channel numbers" for KOCE 50-1 to 50-5, which "should" map to the aforementioned physical numbers.

And yes, when a station enters into a channel sharing agreement (or a "CSA"). It surrenders its broadcast license and shutdown its transmitter to share with another station's which can cause reception issues.

Particularly if the shared station is of lower power and/or is at a location and signal coverage pattern that causes reduced signal strength at a given reception point. As with KAZA 54-1 and 54-2 channel sharing on low power Spanish station KHTV-CD 27.

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post #10427 of 10905 Old 09-15-2018, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by HoTatII View Post
What is the device you're scanning with?

And when I said for instance "18 with program stream #s 11-15." I'm referring to "physical RF channel 18, program stream #s 11 through 15, which KOCE is using on KSCI 18's transmitter.

However the channels you see for this are the "virtual channel numbers" for KOCE 50-1 to 50-5, which "should" map to the aforementioned physical numbers.

And yes, when a station enters into a channel sharing agreement (or a "CSA"). It surrenders its broadcast license and shutdown its transmitter to share with another station's which can cause reception issues.

Particularly if the shared station is of lower power and/or is at a location and signal coverage pattern that causes reduced signal strength at a given reception point. As with KAZA 54-1 and 54-2 channel sharing on low power Spanish station KHTV-CD 27.

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I have, for the last 15 years or so been using Dish and have their OTA module installed.
I am trying to decipher what you wrote in regards to channel 18 and 50. Are the PBS stations using the number 18-'s for their stations, or will they still be found and displayed on the channels 50 1-5?
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post #10428 of 10905 Old 09-15-2018, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by shivaji View Post
I have, for the last 15 years or so been using Dish and have their OTA module installed.
I am trying to decipher what you wrote in regards to channel 18 and 50. Are the PBS stations using the number 18-'s for their stations, or will they still be found and displayed on the channels 50 1-5?
Ok, while I actually have DIRECTV here with their OTA tuner module (the AM21) attached and TiVo OTA receivers. And know how the AM21 adjusts to these FCC incentive auction repack movements.

I don't know how the DISH OTA dongle is handling it. Will a rescan on the DISH receiver even fix it? Or does DISH have to make the changes on their end when a repack movement occurs?

On the DIRECTV unit as long as the virtual channels like (PBS) KLCS 58-1 to 58-3 and KOCE 50-1 to 50-5 are in DIRECTV's OTA database downloaded from the satellite. Re-running the AM21's setup will find where the channels actually moved to.

To help clear up the confusion over the "virtual" vs. "physical" channel numbers.

See the Rabbitears site here ...

https://rabbitears.info//market.php

Where the "Display Channel" (or virtual channel) is the one you see in your channel guide. But internally the DISH receiver must correctly map to the "Physical Channel" numbers listed in the opposite column or you can't receive the station.

This is apparently the problem with your Dish receiver.

For instance ...

KOCE-50

Vir. 50-1 must map internally to Phy. 18.11
50-2 to 18.12
50-3 to 18.13
50-4 to 18.14
50-5 to 18.15

For KLCS 58

Vir. 58-1 must map to Phy. 28.4
58-2 to 28.5
58-3 to 28.6

For the virtual number, the number before the dash is the old analog broadcast channel. And following the dash the main or secondary subchannel number.

With the physical, the first number before the decimal point is the RF TV channel number the station is actually broadcasting on. The number following the point is the program sub-stream number assigned to the multiplexed channels of the transport stream.

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post #10429 of 10905 Old 09-15-2018, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoTatII View Post
Ok, while I actually have DIRECTV here with their OTA tuner module (the AM21) attached and TiVo OTA receivers. And know how the AM21 adjusts to these FCC incentive auction repack movements.

I don't know how the DISH OTA dongle is handling it. Will a rescan on the DISH receiver even fix it? Or does DISH have to make the changes on their end when a repack movement occurs?

On the DIRECTV unit as long as the virtual channels like (PBS) KLCS 58-1 to 58-3 and KOCE 50-1 to 50-5 are in DIRECTV's OTA database downloaded from the satellite. Re-running the AM21's setup will find where the channels actually moved to.

To help clear up the confusion over the "virtual" vs. "physical" channel numbers.

See the Rabbitears site here ...

https://rabbitears.info//market.php

Where the "Display Channel" (or virtual channel) is the one you see in your channel guide. But internally the DISH receiver must correctly map to the "Physical Channel" numbers listed in the opposite column or you can't receive the station.

This is apparently the problem with your Dish receiver.

For instance ...

KOCE-50

Vir. 50-1 must map internally to Phy. 18.11
50-2 to 18.12
50-3 to 18.13
50-4 to 18.14
50-5 to 18.15

For KLCS 58

Vir. 58-1 must map to Phy. 28.4
58-2 to 28.5
58-3 to 28.6

For the virtual number, the number before the dash is the old analog broadcast channel. And following the dash the main or secondary subchannel number.

With the physical, the first number before the decimal point is the RF TV channel number the station is actually broadcasting on. The number following the point is the program sub-stream number assigned to the multiplexed channels of the transport stream.

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Thanks again for taking the time to respond. With the Dish module, it will scan any and all channels that the antenna is picking up and then add them to the guide. I will keep working it and see if the PBS stations can be found.
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post #10430 of 10905 Old 09-27-2018, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HoTatII View Post
Well KCET 28 hasn't been a PBS station for years, but is still broadcasting on RF channel 28, on program stream #s 1, 2, and 3. However KLCS 58 (PBS) recently moved and is now channel sharing with KCET with its main and 2 subchannels on program stream #s 4, 5, and 6 (same RF channel of course).

And KOCE 50 (PBS) with its main and 4 subchannels also recently moved to channel share with KSCI 18 on RF channel 18, program stream #s 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15.

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And KCET and KOCE will be merging so KCET will be PBS again, so it wouldn't hurt to have KCET, KOCE, and KLCS.
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post #10431 of 10905 Old 09-27-2018, 08:01 PM
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Has anyone noticed during live sports over the air, there is a loss of signal during the first half of the game. It doesn't happen on other programs. Just live sports. Not even during Live News. Live Sports and only live sports. I suspect the networks ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX all agree to disrupt their over the air signal on live sporting events to make people buy cable or satellite TV. I have an OTA DVR and when the signal goes away, it stops the DVR, so when I get home, the complete game isn't on the DVR. I now manually record a block of time and that fixes the problem.
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post #10432 of 10905 Old 10-12-2018, 07:39 PM
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Has anyone noticed during live sports over the air, there is a loss of signal during the first half of the game. It doesn't happen on other programs. Just live sports. Not even during Live News. Live Sports and only live sports. I suspect the networks ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX all agree to disrupt their over the air signal on live sporting events to make people buy cable or satellite TV. I have an OTA DVR and when the signal goes away, it stops the DVR, so when I get home, the complete game isn't on the DVR. I now manually record a block of time and that fixes the problem.
Strange, that has never happened with my Tivo's. What are you using for a dvr, sounds like you're having a software issue. I have seen signal disruption but it doesn't stop the recording.

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post #10433 of 10905 Old 10-15-2018, 02:14 PM
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Does anyone have an update on when KVCR (26 > 5) and KBEH/KWHY (42 > 4) will be moving to Low-VHF? I just emailed KVCR as I didn't see anything on the website. Since we are in phase 2 it might be as soon as 12/1/18, but thought there would be more details by now.

Thanks,
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post #10434 of 10905 Old 10-15-2018, 02:25 PM
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Does anyone have an update on when KVCR (26 > 5) and KBEH/KWHY (42 > 4) will be moving to Low-VHF? I just emailed KVCR as I didn't see anything on the website. Since we are in phase 2 it might be as soon as 12/1/18, but thought there would be more details by now.

Thanks,
We're already in Phase 2? ...

I thought P. 2 doesn't actually begin until 12/1/18 and ends on 4/12/19?

See charts at the end of the article ...

https://blog.solidsignal.com/tutoria...he-fcc-repack/

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post #10435 of 10905 Old 10-15-2018, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by HoTatII View Post
We're already in Phase 2? ...

I thought P. 2 doesn't actually begin until 12/1/18 and ends on 4/12/19?

See charts at the end of the article ...

https://blog.solidsignal.com/tutoria...he-fcc-repack/

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Right. I meant in the sense that we (LA area) will be transitioning in phase 2. Not that we are in it yet. The FCC is in Phase 1 now.
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post #10436 of 10905 Old 10-15-2018, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post
Right. I meant in the sense that we (LA area) will be transitioning in phase 2. Not that we are in it yet. The FCC is in Phase 1 now.
I would expect that the entire LA market will change at the same time so that viewers will only have to rescan their TV's once.
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post #10437 of 10905 Old 10-15-2018, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by The Grunter View Post
Has anyone noticed during live sports over the air, there is a loss of signal during the first half of the game. It doesn't happen on other programs. Just live sports. Not even during Live News. Live Sports and only live sports. I suspect the networks ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX all agree to disrupt their over the air signal on live sporting events to make people buy cable or satellite TV. I have an OTA DVR and when the signal goes away, it stops the DVR, so when I get home, the complete game isn't on the DVR. I now manually record a block of time and that fixes the problem.
Yeah i agree with your comment, noticed that signal gets weaker, and then it drops altogether. The channel was coming in, with no problems an hour ago, they are on cohoots with cable operators, satellite, I believe that ota is going to be around 5-10 years maximum they will pressure the fcc to sell the rest of tv spectrum, no more free tv as we know it.
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post #10438 of 10905 Old 10-16-2018, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by LATV View Post
I would expect that the entire LA market will change at the same time so that viewers will only have to rescan their TV's once.
Nope. In fact, it's already started. The FCC timeline is for the cases where transmitter and antenna modifications are necessary. In cases where channels are vacated by consolidation on a single transmitter channel, it's mostly (or entirely) a done deal. Two examples: virtual 58 (KLCS) is now consolidated with virtual 28 (KCET) on the 28 transmitter and virtual 50 (KOCE) is consolidated with virtual 18 on the 18 transmitter. (And these changes occurred at different times.)

I'm guessing that you don't watch either 58 or 50 (or you view them on cable), because you'll find that neither of these are currently viewable (OTA) without a rescan.

There is at least one case where it is impossible for the change to occur at the same time: KCBS is moving to the frequency currently occupied by KTLA. For this to be possible, KTLA is moving to a new frequency and that will have to occur well in advance of the KCBS move to allow time for KCBS testing on the former KTLA frequency before they come online there.
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post #10439 of 10905 Old 10-16-2018, 11:33 AM
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KVCR replied to my email and advised they are planning to move to RF 5 in April. So, at or around the end of Phase 2.
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post #10440 of 10905 Old 10-16-2018, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post
KVCR replied to my email and advised they are planning to move to RF 5 in April. So, at or around the end of Phase 2.
Oh, good ...

That gives me plenty of time to decide whether to hassle with putting up a new VHF-lo band capable antenna to see if I can pull in KVCR off axis from Mt. Wilson/Harvard.

Or just stay as I am now where I can't, nor try, to get KVCR OTA. And just use DIRECTV's carriage of KVCR 24-1 (but in SD only) and 24-2 (FNX).

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