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post #10831 of 11001 Old 07-27-2019, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adream8 View Post
Hello LA OTA gang.

Newbie here. Just cut the cord.

I live in the Hollywood Hills just north of the Sunset Strip.

Put an RCA ANT751E Yagi antenna (70 mile range, no amp) on my roof. Pointed directly at MT. Wilson (64% true from my spot). Ran a quality 100ft Mediabridge RG6 coax down to the latest generation AirTv dual tuner black box.

To watch programming via WiFi, I'm using the Sling app (paid subscription version) on both my TV (Roku streaming stick Plus) and my iPhone (iOS). Also have a new WD MyPassport 2TB portable hard drive plugged into my AirTV box for recording OTA.

I have 1-2 mountain crests between me and Mt. Wilson. This is verified by my TVFool report.

(Apparently, since I'm new here, and my post count is less than 5, I can't yet post a link to my TVFool report, but I will when I am able.)

On the bright side, I'm getting good solid consistent (2-3 of 5 bars) reception on all the major networks. CBS2, NBC4, KTLA5, ABC7, KCAL9, and KCOP13 are all coming in clearly and seldom pixilate or drop out. I'm quite happy about this considering I'm in the hills without a direct line of sight to Mt. Wilson.

On the down side, I'm having trouble getting in the PBS stations (which I really love and want), and some of the better secondary stations (which would be fun to have).

Interestingly, if do a rescan several times a day, over a period of several days, the tuner on the AirTV box will occasionally pick them up, I guess depending on the right weather and troposphere conditions. But even if I leave the scan in place, once that "ideal weather window" closes, I get a 'no signal' message on those channels.

I get 24 KVCR PBS (Empire, FNX, Encore, Create), 30 KPXN (ion, Qubo, ion Life), and 56 KDOC (MeTV, Comet, Charge!) in consistently alongside the networks mentioned above.

The ones I get in rarely and not consistently that I'd really like to are:

28 KCET PBS
50 KOCE PBS SoCal
58 KLCS PBS

.. and to a less important extent, any of these..

34 KMEX Univision (Bounce, Justice)
46 KFTR UniMás (getTV, Escape, Grit, Quest)
54 KAZA (MeTV, Decades)

ALL of these station are also broadcasting from Mt Wilson, 20 miles from me at 64*.

I tried adding a Wingard LNA-200 pre-amp at the antenna, but quickly learned that it didn't help. The decibel boost seems to be too strong, so the strong stations just slightly overload and prevent the weaker signal stations from coming in at all, even in ideal weather conditions. So I've had better results without it.

So I'm think of trying:

1) pointing the antenna up to 20* in either direction from its current 64* direct aim at Mt. Wilson, with the hope that it might lessen the strength of the stronger signals, and allow the weaker ones to come through. I suspect this probably won't work, and the I'll just start having issues with the good signal channels, but maybe I'll get lucky?

2) trying a lower-decibel adjustable gain pre-amp, and just turning it up enough to make up for the ~6db loss over the 100ft coax, plus maybe just a few extra decibels, with the hope that those inconsistent signals might become more consistent, without the stronger signals getting boosted enough to blow them out. I've only found one quality adjustable gain pre-amp with a very low noise rating (Kitztech KT-500) and it's expensive, but I guess it's worth a shot.

Are either of these ideas worthwhile?

What else should I try?

Those who are knowledgable, please feel free school me! I'm new to this. My OTA knowledge is limited.

I feel like a bigger antenna won't necessarily make the difference since I'm ~20 miles from Mt. Wilson, and this one is rated for 70 miles. I fact, I get in NBC, ABC, and KPBS all from San Diego more consistently than I get in these nearby channels. (Thanks Socal smog troposphere bounce..?!) (Maybe these longer distance signals are contributing to preventing the closer weaker ones from coming in? Perhaps the antenna is too effective over long distance for my situation?)

Perhaps mounting the antenna higher on a mast?

Help!

What else should I try?

Thanks in advance for any and all insightful input. 🙏

- Anthony
Have you tried an inline attenuator? This works the opposite of an amp weakening a too strong signal.
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post #10832 of 11001 Old 07-27-2019, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post
KAZA is hard to get, try KDOC for ME-TV nothing on ME-TV is in HD so you won't miss KAZA.


I’ve seen a few color filmed programs on KAZA and if they’re not HD their DVD resolution is impressive. Rich and detailed color tells the tale even on grainy


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post #10833 of 11001 Old 07-27-2019, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by northrk View Post
Have you tried an inline attenuator? This works the opposite of an amp weakening a too strong signal.
I haven't! Thank you for the tip. I'll research it.
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post #10834 of 11001 Old 07-28-2019, 06:16 PM
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Here's my TV Fool chart. Advice still appreciated.

Could use some help.

I posted a while back. Quoted my original post here. Read it if you like.

Long and short of it:

I get these stations in only occasionally and weakly:

28 KCET PBS
34 KMEX Univision (Bounce, Justice)
46 KFTR UniMás (getTV, Escape, Grit, Quest)
50 KOCE PBS SoCal
54 KAZA (MeTV, Decades)
58 KLCS PBS

Because I do occasionally get them in, that leads me to believe that I may be able to get them in consistently if I strengthened their signals. I'm trying to figured out how to do this without overdriving and blowing out the stronger signals I already get in solidly.

Most all signals coming from same peak on Mt. Wilson.

RCA ANT751E Yagi antenna on the roof pointed right at it (64*).

Using the newer dual tuner AirTV black box as tuner.

Tried Winegard LNA-200 preamp, but I always scan less channels when it's connected, so it doesn't seem to be helping. I receive more channels without it.

My antenna has about a 6db gain on it's own, and I'm running a 100ft RG6 copper coated coax (but I'm going to switch to a 100ft solid copper coax because I read that it will carry the preamp power better), so I probably lose roughly that same 6db over the length of the cable.

From my TV Fool chart, it looks like most of my problem channels are in the 0-8db NM range.

Should I try..

1) a 6-12db attenuator with the LNA-200 preamp, since it's pushing about a 16db gain which is probably too much?

2) another preamp that is lower gain or adjustable?

3) something else?

I feel like I maybe only need about 6-12db more at most to get those weaker signals, but it seems like most non-variable preamps available push much more than this.

I'm new to this, so insights are appreciated. Thanks again! - Anthony







Quote:
Originally Posted by adream8 View Post
Hello LA OTA gang.

Newbie here. Just cut the cord.

I live in the Hollywood Hills just north of the Sunset Strip.

Put an RCA ANT751E Yagi antenna (70 mile range, no amp) on my roof. Pointed directly at MT. Wilson (64% true from my spot). Ran a quality 100ft Mediabridge RG6 coax down to the latest generation AirTv dual tuner black box.

To watch programming via WiFi, I'm using the Sling app (paid subscription version) on both my TV (Roku streaming stick Plus) and my iPhone (iOS). Also have a new WD MyPassport 2TB portable hard drive plugged into my AirTV box for recording OTA.

I have 1-2 mountain crests between me and Mt. Wilson. This is verified by my TVFool report.

(Apparently, since I'm new here, and my post count is less than 5, I can't yet post a link to my TVFool report, but I will when I am able.)

On the bright side, I'm getting good solid consistent (2-3 of 5 bars) reception on all the major networks. CBS2, NBC4, KTLA5, ABC7, KCAL9, and KCOP13 are all coming in clearly and seldom pixilate or drop out. I'm quite happy about this considering I'm in the hills without a direct line of sight to Mt. Wilson.

On the down side, I'm having trouble getting in the PBS stations (which I really love and want), and some of the better secondary stations (which would be fun to have).

Interestingly, if do a rescan several times a day, over a period of several days, the tuner on the AirTV box will occasionally pick them up, I guess depending on the right weather and troposphere conditions. But even if I leave the scan in place, once that "ideal weather window" closes, I get a 'no signal' message on those channels.

I get 24 KVCR PBS (Empire, FNX, Encore, Create), 30 KPXN (ion, Qubo, ion Life), and 56 KDOC (MeTV, Comet, Charge!) in consistently alongside the networks mentioned above.

The ones I get in rarely and not consistently that I'd really like to are:

28 KCET PBS
50 KOCE PBS SoCal
58 KLCS PBS

.. and to a less important extent, any of these..

34 KMEX Univision (Bounce, Justice)
46 KFTR UniMás (getTV, Escape, Grit, Quest)
54 KAZA (MeTV, Decades)

ALL of these station are also broadcasting from Mt Wilson, 20 miles from me at 64*.

I tried adding a Wingard LNA-200 pre-amp at the antenna, but quickly learned that it didn't help. The decibel boost seems to be too strong, so the strong stations just slightly overload and prevent the weaker signal stations from coming in at all, even in ideal weather conditions. So I've had better results without it.

So I'm think of trying:

1) pointing the antenna up to 20* in either direction from its current 64* direct aim at Mt. Wilson, with the hope that it might lessen the strength of the stronger signals, and allow the weaker ones to come through. I suspect this probably won't work, and the I'll just start having issues with the good signal channels, but maybe I'll get lucky?

2) trying a lower-decibel adjustable gain pre-amp, and just turning it up enough to make up for the ~6db loss over the 100ft coax, plus maybe just a few extra decibels, with the hope that those inconsistent signals might become more consistent, without the stronger signals getting boosted enough to blow them out. I've only found one quality adjustable gain pre-amp with a very low noise rating (Kitztech KT-500) and it's expensive, but I guess it's worth a shot.

Are either of these ideas worthwhile?

What else should I try?

Those who are knowledgable, please feel free school me! I'm new to this. My OTA knowledge is limited.

I feel like a bigger antenna won't necessarily make the difference since I'm ~20 miles from Mt. Wilson, and this one is rated for 70 miles. I fact, I get in NBC, ABC, and KPBS all from San Diego more consistently than I get in these nearby channels. (Thanks Socal smog troposphere bounce..?!) (Maybe these longer distance signals are contributing to preventing the closer weaker ones from coming in? Perhaps the antenna is too effective over long distance for my situation?)

Perhaps mounting the antenna higher on a mast?

Help!

What else should I try?

Thanks in advance for any and all insightful input. 🙏

- Anthony
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post #10835 of 11001 Old 08-12-2019, 06:09 AM
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Tip of the hat to the KCBS engineering crew. Saturday night's Rams-Raiders game had the best PQ I've seen on an NFL game in a LONG while.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.

Last edited by DrDon; 08-12-2019 at 10:26 AM.
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post #10836 of 11001 Old 08-12-2019, 10:01 AM
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@adream8

It almost looks as if you're TOO close. You have a band of 2 to 4 degrees (62 to 66) between the main stations and they're almost all looking to need an outdoor antenna. If you look at the profile of your reception you're probably shielded by a local hill or other obstruction too. I'm nearly 50 miles out and most all the stations are at the nearly identical azimuth for me and there's no local shielding.

For example, here's KOCE Virtual 50.1 / Real 48. You're probably shielded by the mountains on the left side of the profile.
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post #10837 of 11001 Old 08-12-2019, 10:06 AM
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By contrast, here's the same profile in ZIP 90069. Also, verify your aiming. At that distance there'll be a bigger spread from Magnetic and True orientation due to compass inclination (difference between true north and magnetic north).
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post #10838 of 11001 Old 08-12-2019, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
---Quote (Originally by adream8)---
I'm new to this, so insights are appreciated. Thanks again! - Anthony
---End Quote---
Anthony: I think you need to see what's available AT the antenna, first. If those stations' signals aren't good AT the antenna, there's nothing you can do to "fix" that downstream (unless there's a nearby FM or something else that needs to be filtered out).

If you have a small TV and an extension cord, try to get in a position where you're using the shortest amount of RG6 possible with the preamp out of the line. If everything's solid, then we can look at different preamps and schemes to get those stations in. If they're still intermittent with, say, ten feet of coax hooked directly to the balun, then you're going to need either more antenna or elevation. Or both.

I'm not a local, so I'm not as familiar as others with signal issues where you are. Hopefully, this bump will get some attention.
AGREED. Point taken. The little ANT751E is doing remarkably well considering the terrain. But I think more antenna is needed if I have chance of getting in everything I want. Ordered a CM-4228HD. We shall see.

With the little Yagi, more height has not helped. I ran a 10' mast up from the roof line, and scanned at 1' increments from 10' down to 3' (so far). While the strongest signals were a touch stronger up high, the marginal ones didn't even start to scan until I got down to around 3-4' above roof line. I think maybe either the signals are conveniently bouncing down there somewhere, or the stronger signals are reduced enough down there to allow "room" for and not blow out the weaker signals, or perhaps some combination of both. So I'm doing better down lower in general.

Thanks for the useful advice!

I posted a lot more info and have gotten some help in the 'Antenna and Related Hardware' forum here, if you want to take a look and contribute:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...l#post58393448

Appreciated!
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post #10839 of 11001 Old 08-12-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post
@adream8

It almost looks as if you're TOO close. You have a band of 2 to 4 degrees (62 to 66) between the main stations and they're almost all looking to need an outdoor antenna. If you look at the profile of your reception you're probably shielded by a local hill or other obstruction too. I'm nearly 50 miles out and most all the stations are at the nearly identical azimuth for me and there's no local shielding.

For example, here's KOCE Virtual 50.1 / Real 48. You're probably shielded by the mountains on the left side of the profile.
Yes, I believe you're right.

I have one steep mountain ridge maybe about 300 yards away (quite close), that is probably the primary obstruction between me and Mt. Wilson.
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post #10840 of 11001 Old 08-12-2019, 11:32 AM
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By contrast, here's the same profile in ZIP 90069. Also, verify your aiming. At that distance there'll be a bigger spread from Magnetic and True orientation due to compass inclination (difference between true north and magnetic north).
Roger that. Yes, magnetic is 52* and true is 64*. And my compass has given me some variation in readings, so I have played around with aiming about +/-10* from that directed heading, just to see what happens. So far, for the most part, 64* true has proved about as optimal as I have found.

I posted in more detail here in the 'Antennas and Related Hardware' forum, in case you want to check it out and contribute:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...l#post58393448

Thanks!
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post #10841 of 11001 Old 08-21-2019, 10:47 PM
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Newbie here. Can't figure out how to make new topic. Is KCBS 2 off the air tonight? No reception in Tustin area tonight. - Tim
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post #10842 of 11001 Old 08-21-2019, 11:44 PM
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Newbie here. Can't figure out how to make new topic. Is KCBS 2 off the air tonight? No reception in Tustin area tonight. - Tim
I lost CBS as well today for some reason here in in Santa Monica.

Just did a channel scan and still no CBS which is weird since it was one of my stronger signals with 9 out of 10 bars usually!
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post #10843 of 11001 Old 08-22-2019, 12:04 AM
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I lost CBS as well today for some reason here in in Santa Monica.

Just did a channel scan and still no CBS which is weird since it was one of my stronger signals with 9 out of 10 bars usually!
I'll have to check when I get home but they wouldn't be the first station to have a transmitter/tower problem while the feed to cable and satellite systems is still running. People not using OTA would never know there was a problem. When I lived in the midwest this could happen in thunderstorms on occasion.

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post #10844 of 11001 Old 08-22-2019, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by euskadi71 View Post
I lost CBS as well today for some reason here in in Santa Monica.
I confirm. KCBS-HD (OTA) is off the air for some reason here in Marina Del Rey.
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post #10845 of 11001 Old 08-22-2019, 04:54 AM
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Still on the air here in So. LA as of 4:53 AM local ...

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post #10846 of 11001 Old 08-22-2019, 10:21 AM
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I'll have to check when I get home but they wouldn't be the first station to have a transmitter/tower problem while the feed to cable and satellite systems is still running. People not using OTA would never know there was a problem. When I lived in the midwest this could happen in thunderstorms on occasion.
Ah, thanks. Have occasionally lost signal like this before but no more than 15 mins or so, (unless I wasn't watching and unaware of it happening of course).

I checked at 10am and it was still off air. Checked again at 10:10am and it was back on in Santa Monica. Getting a steady 10 out of 10 bar signal now!
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post #10847 of 11001 Old 08-22-2019, 10:26 AM
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Anyone having problems with KABC Los Angeles at night?
Seeing pixelation on programs recorded on OTA TiVo on ch 7.
Reef Break was unwatchable last week, last night Goldbergs had some pixelation but was watchable.

Cheers, Tp

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post #10848 of 11001 Old 08-22-2019, 10:29 AM
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KCBS-HD is back on the air in Marina Del Rey.
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post #10849 of 11001 Old 08-22-2019, 12:16 PM
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Never knew it was off the air but it's working fine now out in Riverside (and by extension through Emby here in San Diego).

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post #10850 of 11001 Old 08-22-2019, 01:26 PM
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Anyone having problems with KABC Los Angeles at night?
Seeing pixelation on programs recorded on OTA TiVo on ch 7.
Reef Break was unwatchable last week, last night Goldbergs had some pixelation but was watchable.
I've had the same problem the last few months or so. I'd check my signal strength and even while getting 6 - 8 bars out of 10 signal strength there'd be occasional pixelation and sometimes blacking out.

KABC has been a mess for me starting a few months ago too. Near unwatchable in day but better signal strength at night. It was one of my stronger station signals until fairly recently.

I use a Terk indoor directional antenna mounted on an extension arm monitor wall mount so I have a good range of adjustment to play with but can't really dial in a consistent good signal anymore.
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post #10851 of 11001 Old 08-22-2019, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by euskadi71 View Post
I've had the same problem the last few months or so. I'd check my signal strength and even while getting 6 - 8 bars out of 10 signal strength there'd be occasional pixelation and sometimes blacking out.

KABC has been a mess for me starting a few months ago too. Near unwatchable in day but better signal strength at night. It was one of my stronger station signals until fairly recently.

I use a Terk indoor directional antenna mounted on an extension arm monitor wall mount so I have a good range of adjustment to play with but can't really dial in a consistent good signal anymore.
Thanks for the reply.

Cheers, Tp

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post #10852 of 11001 Old 08-22-2019, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adream8 View Post
Could use some help.

I posted a while back. Quoted my original post here. Read it if you like.

Long and short of it:

I get these stations in only occasionally and weakly:

28 KCET PBS
34 KMEX Univision (Bounce, Justice)
46 KFTR UniMás (getTV, Escape, Grit, Quest)
50 KOCE PBS SoCal
54 KAZA (MeTV, Decades)
58 KLCS PBS

Because I do occasionally get them in, that leads me to believe that I may be able to get them in consistently if I strengthened their signals. I'm trying to figured out how to do this without overdriving and blowing out the stronger signals I already get in solidly.

Most all signals coming from same peak on Mt. Wilson.

RCA ANT751E Yagi antenna on the roof pointed right at it (64*).

Using the newer dual tuner AirTV black box as tuner.

Tried Winegard LNA-200 preamp, but I always scan less channels when it's connected, so it doesn't seem to be helping. I receive more channels without it.

My antenna has about a 6db gain on it's own, and I'm running a 100ft RG6 copper coated coax (but I'm going to switch to a 100ft solid copper coax because I read that it will carry the preamp power better), so I probably lose roughly that same 6db over the length of the cable.

From my TV Fool chart, it looks like most of my problem channels are in the 0-8db NM range.

Should I try..

1) a 6-12db attenuator with the LNA-200 preamp, since it's pushing about a 16db gain which is probably too much?

2) another preamp that is lower gain or adjustable?

3) something else?

I feel like I maybe only need about 6-12db more at most to get those weaker signals, but it seems like most non-variable preamps available push much more than this.

I'm new to this, so insights are appreciated. Thanks again! - Anthony
why not try to 2 antennas, one for each cluster stations, connected thru a splitter. I use here it works.
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post #10853 of 11001 Old 08-22-2019, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euskadi71 View Post
Ah, thanks. Have occasionally lost signal like this before but no more than 15 mins or so, (unless I wasn't watching and unaware of it happening of course).

I checked at 10am and it was still off air. Checked again at 10:10am and it was back on in Santa Monica. Getting a steady 10 out of 10 bar signal now!
I had at 5:30am this morning but it was futsy, UHF signals are really line of sight and lower transmitter power can affect reception. Channel 9 has gotten quirky, it's usually strong. I think 2 and 9 are sharing the same tower and they are on the part of the tower farm on MT. Wilson that is more to the west. For the record I'm using a indoor antenna on a second floor east facing in the mid San Fernando Valley.
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post #10854 of 11001 Old 08-24-2019, 08:35 AM
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I see Dabl is testing on channel 2.3. Official premiere scheduled for Sept 9.
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post #10855 of 11001 Old 08-24-2019, 11:02 AM
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I see Dabl is testing on channel 2.3. Official premiere scheduled for Sept 9.
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CBS' version of ABC's LiveWell network station...

Large HD8200XL antenna with HDB91X and RCA preamp and a RCA VH226F rotor motor
,aimed at Mt. Wilson (Los Angeles) from Etiwanda area.
CM3410 Dist. amp in attic for a 5 room hookup.
Located in foothills behind Mt. Baldy, and experiencing signal loss and pixelation depending on time of day.
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post #10856 of 11001 Old 08-24-2019, 11:52 AM
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CBS' version of ABC's LiveWell network station...
That's what I was thinking ...

Yet the various media write-ups on Dabl portray it as though it's a new idea. ...

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post #10857 of 11001 Old 08-25-2019, 07:39 AM
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That's what I was thinking ...

Yet the various media write-ups on Dabl portray it as though it's a new idea. ...

It could be worse.....
More Asian or Spanish channels...

I need my friends to teach me Mandarin...LOL
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Large HD8200XL antenna with HDB91X and RCA preamp and a RCA VH226F rotor motor
,aimed at Mt. Wilson (Los Angeles) from Etiwanda area.
CM3410 Dist. amp in attic for a 5 room hookup.
Located in foothills behind Mt. Baldy, and experiencing signal loss and pixelation depending on time of day.
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post #10858 of 11001 Old 08-25-2019, 03:38 PM
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CBS' version of ABC's LiveWell network station...
They have always counted on the new sub channels that cable and satellite services will just pick them up. The days coming when these services will say no. OTA alone will not make these channels viable if advertisers don't think they are getting enough eyeballs.

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post #10859 of 11001 Old 08-25-2019, 03:42 PM
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It could be worse.....
More Asian or Spanish channels...

I need my friends to teach me Mandarin...LOL
Learn Vietnamese, the waiters will love you, the next time you're in a Vietnamese restaurant. And you'll understand the TV programs too.
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post #10860 of 11001 Old 08-26-2019, 02:03 PM
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HEY! I like "Rick Bayless - Mexico, One Plate at a Time"!

Might be some cool stuff on Dabl too..
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