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post #5881 of 5949 Old 06-10-2019, 01:44 PM
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(Boldface mine --ebo)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IN2tvClassics View Post
I use 2 remotes to watch OTA TV. One is for the VIZIO, the other to control the Ematic. My Vizio Remote has four connection types: TV AV COMP HDMI
I select TV for OTA, HDMI 1 for Roku, HDMI 2 for AMFTV

My Clearstream V2 Antenna is plugged into the back of Ematic using the RF IN connection. The Ematic connects to my Vizio using its HDMI Out connection
To have a OTA picture using the Ematic, I press TV on my VIZIO remote tuned to CH 3. I change channels using the Ematic remote, and adjust volume with the Vizio remote.
OK, here's a test. Tune an OTA channel as you normally do. While watching the channel, disconnect the HDMI cable from the Ematic. Did you lose the picture? I'm guessing you didn't. From your description, you're using the Ematic's RF Out, set to Ch. 3, connected with a coax cable (like the one from your antenna that's connected to RF In) to the Vizio's RF input (labeled DTV/TV CABLE/ANTENNA). The Vizio is tuned to Ch. 3 and obviously its analog tuner works. The RF output of the Ematic is NTSC analog, just like all US TV was before digital. It's not HD even if the Ematic is tuned to an HD channel. Even the SD channels (equivalent to NTSC resolution) won't look as good as they would if you were using an all-digital path.

If the Roku and AMFTV are connected to HDMI 1 and 2 respectively on the rear panel, then the Ematic's HDMI cable should be connected to HDMI 3 on the right side. To use it, you need to select HDMI 3, not TV. If you get no picture when you do that, and the HDMI cable is connected (and works; sometimes they don't) then you may need to change some menu settings on the Ematic. All I know about it is what I read in the manual I downloaded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IN2tvClassics View Post
I do see static on the Ematic menus but they are not as pronounced because of the color.
If there's static on the menus, then the interference is not coming in through the antenna because the menus are internally generated. Most likely it's affecting the Ematic's Ch. 3 output, the Vizio tuner or the coax between them. If you're determined to continue watching OTA this way, you could switch both the Ematic and the Vizio to Ch. 4 to see if that helps. But even if it removes the static, the picture still won't be as good as it would be if you were using HDMI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IN2tvClassics View Post
The antenna tuner on my Vizio doesn't work correctly. That's why I added the Ematic. The Ematic was working fine for a couple months. It only started having this static issue when my new upstairs neighbors moved in.
The previous neighbors didn't bother my tv signal.
Which says that the source of the static is something they added. And if it's fairly constant when (and only when) they're there and awake, my guess is light bulbs, either fluorescent or LED. Some LEDs generate RF interference, some don't.
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post #5882 of 5949 Old 06-10-2019, 08:24 PM
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Darn. Looks like I'm no longer able to receive WFNY out here in North Greenbush (for now). I'm assuming it's because of the leaves on the trees. I was getting an "okay" signal from my rooftop antenna, now it's completely gone.
I’m out of town for a couple days...but WFNY, HAS been acting up a bit lately. One day last week, it was gone. Then it returned. Normally the signal is only 1 “bar” anyway...but lately (without pixelation) it’s ZERO bars! There aren’t many trees in my immediate WFNY path, so I’d thought maybe the problems were weather related. I’m hoping that maybe this isn’t a preview of what’s to come for the summer!
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post #5883 of 5949 Old 06-10-2019, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebo View Post
(Boldface mine --ebo)

OK, here's a test. Tune an OTA channel as you normally do. While watching the channel, disconnect the HDMI cable from the Ematic. Did you lose the picture? I'm guessing you didn't. From your description, you're using the Ematic's RF Out, set to Ch. 3, connected with a coax cable (like the one from your antenna that's connected to RF In) to the Vizio's RF input (labeled DTV/TV CABLE/ANTENNA). The Vizio is tuned to Ch. 3 and obviously its analog tuner works. The RF output of the Ematic is NTSC analog, just like all US TV was before digital. It's not HD even if the Ematic is tuned to an HD channel. Even the SD channels (equivalent to NTSC resolution) won't look as good as they would if you were using an all-digital path.

If the Roku and AMFTV are connected to HDMI 1 and 2 respectively on the rear panel, then the Ematic's HDMI cable should be connected to HDMI 3 on the right side. To use it, you need to select HDMI 3, not TV. If you get no picture when you do that, and the HDMI cable is connected (and works; sometimes they don't) then you may need to change some menu settings on the Ematic. All I know about it is what I read in the manual I downloaded.
My Antenna connects to my Ematic RF IN, using Ematic HDMI Out to my Vizio.


I am not using the Ematic RF Out. The only coax cable I am using connects my Antenna to Ematic RF IN.

The Ematic Manual says I need to set my tv to channel 3 or 4 to use it. For my setup it was channel 3.
My HDMI connections go like this:

HDMI 1 - Roku
HDMI 2 - AMFTV
HDMI 3 - Ematic

But when I set my tv to HDMI 3 it doesn't show my OTA signal. It only shows when I press TV on my Vizio remote.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ebo View Post

If there's static on the menus, then the interference is not coming in through the antenna because the menus are internally generated. Most likely it's affecting the Ematic's Ch. 3 output, the Vizio tuner or the coax between them. If you're determined to continue watching OTA this way, you could switch both the Ematic and the Vizio to Ch. 4 to see if that helps. But even if it removes the static, the picture still won't be as good as it would be if you were using HDMI.

Which says that the source of the static is something they added. And if it's fairly constant when (and only when) they're there and awake, my guess is light bulbs, either fluorescent or LED. Some LEDs generate RF interference, some don't.
The static and rolling bar is there constant. But it gets worse when they are active. A friend that was over thought they heard something running. But couldn't make out what it was.
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post #5884 of 5949 Old 06-11-2019, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IN2tvClassics View Post
My Antenna connects to my Ematic RF IN, using Ematic HDMI Out to my Vizio.
Let's try this. Answer all of these, please.

What's connected to the RF input F-connector on the back of the Vizio?

If "nothing," then how close is the Enmatic to that connector?

You may have answered this one @ebo asked: does the OTA picture go away (TV set to ch 3) when you disconnect the Enmatic's HDMI cable? (by "disconnect," I mean removing the entire cable from both devices and placing it somewhere else)

The interference you're seeing is the kind that wouldn't appear on a digital picture. You don't get rolling bars of interference on digital. That leaves analog or a fault with the television. From the sound of things, you're viewing the Enmatic's output via analog as that's what happens when you select TV and tune to "3." And Channel 3 is prone to all kinds of interference, from electric motors to old cars passing by.

It's a WAG, but I'm wondering if the Enmatic is simply close enough for the Vizio to pick it up through the air. Sounds insane, but I've had televisions that didn't need antennas because we were only a mile or so from the transmitter and it was a VHF station. Could also be that the Enmatic is leaking its RF output to ground and that's getting carried over to the TV through the HDMI's shielding. The RF module inside of the Vizio, while shielded, does have a common ground with the HDMI connectors. And, since you said the ATSC portion of the tuner failed, there's ample reason to suspect whatever caused that (static? Blown capacitor?) is responsible for the analog circuitry being able to pick up the RF out of the Enmatic without a direct connection.

In any of these cases, something as simple as a box fan upstairs would give the rolling bars of interference.

So, assuming nothing at all is connected to the Vizio's F-connector and the picture remains with the HDMI cable disconnected, try terminating the RF output of the Enmatic. See what happens.

Might also look into borrowing someone else's TV to see if the HDMI output of the Enmatic works with a different set.

Something isn't right with one or the other.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.

Last edited by DrDon; 06-11-2019 at 09:56 AM.
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post #5885 of 5949 Old 06-11-2019, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
Let's try this. Answer all of these, please. What's connected to the RF input F-connector on the back of the Vizio?

If "nothing," then how close is the Enmatic to that connector?
Nothing, the Ematic is one the shelf below the Vizio, about 12" down, maybe 24" away from the Vizio RF input.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
You may have answered this one @ebo asked: does the OTA picture go away (TV set to ch 3) when you disconnect the Enmatic's HDMI cable?
(by "disconnect," I mean removing the entire cable from both devices and placing it somewhere else)
I have not tried that yet, but will when I can later today.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
The interference you're seeing is the kind that wouldn't appear on a digital picture. You don't get rolling bars of interference on digital. That leaves analog or a fault with the television. From the sound of things, you're viewing the Ematic's output via analog as that's what happens when you select TV and tune to "3." And Channel 3 is prone to all kinds of interference, from electric motors to old cars passing by.

It's a WAG, but I'm wondering if the Ematic is simply close enough for the Vizio to pick it up through the air. Sounds insane, but I've had televisions that didn't need antennas because we were only a mile or so from the transmitter and it was a VHF station. Could also be that the Ematic is leaking its RF output to ground and that's getting carried over to the TV through the HDMI's shielding. The RF module inside of the
Vizio, while shielded, does have a common ground with the HDMI connectors. And, since you said the ATSC portion of the tuner failed, there's ample reason to suspect whatever caused that (static? Blown capacitor?) is responsible for the analog circuitry being able to pick up the RF out of the Ematic without a direct connection.

In any of these cases, something as simple as a box fan upstairs would give the rolling bars of interference.

So, assuming nothing at all is connected to the Vizio's F-connector and the picture remains with the HDMI cable disconnected, try terminating the RF output of the Ematic. See what happens.

Might also look into borrowing someone elses TV to see if the HDMI output of the Ematic works with a different set.

Something isn't right with one or the other.
I'll try removing the HDMI cable from the Ematic/Vizio connection. I can also try my smaller Smart TV if needed for comparison.
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post #5886 of 5949 Old 06-13-2019, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by joevideo23 View Post
I'm assuming it's because of the leaves on the trees. I was getting an "okay" signal from my rooftop antenna, now it's completely gone.
I've had the same issue with my Burlington VT reception, specifically on WCAX. Granted, I'm in Glens Falls and 95 miles from the transmitter! Thinking it's the trees growing in this last month.

Different question, regarding the repack, T Mobile just turned on Band 71 in a lot of places near here. And with that, I've immediately noticed issues with WCWN RF 43. Aren't they supposed to wait until the repack first? Any news from the local stations about when they'll be moving? Phase 4 starts next week and I haven't heard anything in the press.

Last edited by DrDon; 06-13-2019 at 06:39 AM. Reason: Fixed formatting
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post #5887 of 5949 Old 06-13-2019, 05:48 PM
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Phase 4 starts next week and I haven't heard anything in the press.
Considering OTA viewers make up only 14% of the U.S. TV audience (as of 2017), the mainstream press hasn't been doing stories on the repack. In my area, the local TV stations used mostly PSAs to give information about when they were changing RF channels.
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post #5888 of 5949 Old 06-15-2019, 10:26 AM
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Ok I had a decent amount of time to work on my setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
Let's try this. Answer all of these, please.

What's connected to the RF input F-connector on the back of the Vizio?
I was certain I didn't have anything connected to RF input on my Vizio. Holycrap, was I messed up.

My Ematic was connected to my Vizio using the RF input. Before I did anything else I disconnected the coax from the Vizio & Ematic.
Using my other TV I connected that to my Ematic using HDMI. That was clearly visible, no denials.

I set the tv to HDMI 3 which is my last HDMI connection on my Vizio.
No lines, or static from what I can see. I had a family member confirm, I wasn't just tired from all this PITA tv stuff. lol

I then proceeded to disconnect my other tv so I could make the changes to the Vizio. Now the lines are gone. Hopefully they stay gone.

I get that my RF connection on my Vizio could've been finally conking out. But why would noise, vibrations, or whatever from my upstairs neighbors make it worse?


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________


Now that I can focus on the signal aspect, anyone finding their channels hard to receive?

My problem channels are Ch 51 (My4), Ch 55 (ION), and of course Ch 6 (CBS)
I would also like to grab Ch 48 (WFNY) if I can.

Should I do a full scan or just a partial scan for each channel?

Going by RabbitEars https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=70 Ch 55 isn't suppose to move for another week. Ch 51 shouldn't move until next year.

Am I reading the information correctly? Did these channels switch early?
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post #5889 of 5949 Old 06-15-2019, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by IN2tvClassics View Post

My problem channels are Ch 51 (My4), Ch 55 (ION), and of course Ch 6 (CBS)
I would also like to grab Ch 48 (WFNY) if I can.

Should I do a full scan or just a partial scan for each channel?

Going by RabbitEars https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?mktid=70 Ch 55 isn't suppose to move for another week. Ch 51 shouldn't move until next year.

Am I reading the information correctly? Did these channels switch early?
So glad you got the interference stuff all taken care of!

The only channel that has already moved is WFNY, they are now on 16. I don't know anyone personally who's been able to receive them but since they moved their power is increased!

WTEN, WCWN, WYPX aren't moving right away per se, but are required to move within the repack time period between next week and mid August. WXXA, WNYA, and WVER (for more northerners like me) is next year, that is correct.

WYPX is the only one I know of that is completely moving their transmission location, from Amsterdam to the Helderberg tower farm, soon to be truly Capital Region and I may be able to receive once they do.

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post #5890 of 5949 Old 06-16-2019, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by IN2tvClassics View Post
I get that my RF connection on my Vizio could've been finally conking out. But why would noise, vibrations, or whatever from my upstairs neighbors make it worse?
Like I said earlier, RF interference (like from some appliance) can wreak havoc with OTA signals (especially on VHF-Lo) even with the best of setups. If anything is connected wrong, the signal getting to your TV will be more susceptible. The reason could be anything, from a weaker signal to something in your Vizio.

Anyway, glad you were able to fix things.
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post #5891 of 5949 Old 06-16-2019, 08:38 PM
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@ Brian in CT & others.

Any suggestions on how to remedy problem channels Ch 51 (My4), Ch 55 (ION)?

I would also like to grab Ch 48 (WFNY) if I can.
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post #5892 of 5949 Old 06-17-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by IN2tvClassics View Post
@ Brian in CT & others.

Any suggestions on how to remedy problem channels Ch 51 (My4), Ch 55 (ION)?

I would also like to grab Ch 48 (WFNY) if I can.
Unfortunately, most of Troy is in a "terrain shadow" of WFNY and WYPX. If you go to RabbitEars.info and type in the stations' call signs (one at a time) AFTER clicking on "Market Listings," and then click "Technical Data," click on the transmitter icon next to the RF channel number and you will see what I'm talking about. These two stations' transmitters are well to the west of the other TV stations in the market. Luckily, WYPX is moving to the Helderburgs soon. WFNY is staying put near Gloversville, so your out of luck there. As for WNYA (which is on RF channel 13 and moving to 7), I don't know what is keeping you from getting that. Maybe the antenna you use for VHF is not that good.
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post #5893 of 5949 Old 06-17-2019, 08:51 PM
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Well I'd like to get WFNY for Antenna TV. But it looks like I'm outta luck for now.

But WYPX is coming in now. It may have been a weather issue. But WNYA is still giving my problems. Those started about a month ago.
I guess I will have to try rescanning for it again.

As for my antenna, it's a Clearstream V2
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post #5894 of 5949 Old 06-18-2019, 08:46 AM
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Well I'd like to get WFNY for Antenna TV. But it looks like I'm outta luck for now.

But WNYA is still giving my problems. Those started about a month ago.
For what it's worth.........
WNYA is weak. I get them solid, but they're never more than 1 or 2 signal bars...and that's with a dedicated, outdoor, VHF antenna. IIRC isn't a power increase part of their move to RF 7?

As for WFNY....they're weak all the time. The BEST I can get is ONE signal bar, and a lot of the time there's NO bar, but it rarely has pixel freezes. It usually stays solid even with no bars!
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post #5895 of 5949 Old 06-18-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by IN2tvClassics View Post
@ Brian in CT & others. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Any suggestions on how to remedy problem channels Ch 51 (My4), Ch 55 (ION)?

I would also like to grab Ch 48 (WFNY) if I can.
I wish I had a suggestion - I changed the LED bulbs in my bathroom to incandescent and the problem was fine, but those kind of bulbs aren’t as common as LED.

I live in Hoosick and I get everything (except ch 48 which is a no show and if I move my antenna to receive 6, I loose 10/17/45, go figure even though same tower) in strong. I have an antenna outside and a 10db powered amp inside. This is in spite of the TV Fool data indicating I shouldn’t receive any of these.
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I live in Hoosick and I get everything (except ch 48 which is a no show and if I move my antenna to receive 6, I loose 10/17/45, go figure even though same tower) in strong. I have an antenna outside and a 10db powered amp inside. This is in spite of the TV Fool data indicating I shouldn’t receive any of these.
Just so you (and everyone else reading this) know, TV Fool hasn't been updated in two years. Some of the TV stations that should be there are missing. Keep this in mind when using the site in the future.
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post #5897 of 5949 Old 06-18-2019, 09:28 PM
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Well I did a rescan for WNYA. It "comes in" again, as long as my neighbors aren't to active. IDK what it is about my latest upstairs neighbors. Whenever they are moving around too much in their living room, my tv messes up.

My pictures start pixelating, or stop. I can't change my antenna/tv locations. I don't expect to change theirs. But is there anything I could modify? Would adding an antenna amplifier help?
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post #5898 of 5949 Old 06-19-2019, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IN2tvClassics View Post
IDK what it is about my latest upstairs neighbors. Whenever they are moving around too much in their living room, my tv messes up.

My pictures start pixelating, or stop. I can't change my antenna/tv locations. I don't expect to change theirs. But is there anything I could modify? Would adding an antenna amplifier help?
Unlikely an amp would help.

1) Maybe I missed it, but where IS your antenna located?

2) On which stations does the issue appear when they're moving about? Use call letters, please, even if it's "all of them."

3) What's the frequency of the freezing? Is it random or does it happen with predictable regularity, such as "every 30 seconds." Or does it only happen when you hear them moving about?

The rolling issue you saw on analog is indicative of some sort of ground loop or electrical interference. Since it only happens when your neighbors are home, I think we can rule out ground loop.

I think you're dealing with two issues.. electrical interference and multipath. But go through those questions just to be sure.

To confirm, THIS is your antenna, correct?

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #5899 of 5949 Old 06-19-2019, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by IN2tvClassics View Post
Well I did a rescan for WNYA. It "comes in" again, as long as my neighbors aren't to active. IDK what it is about my latest upstairs neighbors. Whenever they are moving around too much in their living room, my tv messes up.

My pictures start pixelating, or stop. I can't change my antenna/tv locations. I don't expect to change theirs. But is there anything I could modify? Would adding an antenna amplifier help?
I thought you already HAD an amplifier?
Have you ever SEEN these people, or are they mystery neighbors?? How do THEY get TV? Maybe they have multiple antennas and carry them around the rooms! There has to be a reason why THESE people are creating issues that previous neighbors weren't. In jest -- I'm wondering if they're Martians and the antennas on their heads are lousing things up!!
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post #5900 of 5949 Old 06-19-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
Unlikely an amp would help.

1) Maybe I missed it, but where IS your antenna located?

2) On which stations does the issue appear when they're moving about? Use call letters, please, even if it's "all of them."

3) What's the frequency of the freezing? Is it random or does it happen with predictable regularity, such as "every 30 seconds." Or does it only happen when you hear them moving about?

The rolling issue you saw on analog is indicative of some sort of ground loop or electrical interference. Since it only happens when your neighbors are home, I think we can rule out ground loop.

I think you're dealing with two issues.. electrical interference and multipath. But go through those questions just to be sure.

To confirm, THIS is your antenna, correct?

1- My Clearstream 2V is located inside pointed toward the east. But can adjust north or south. I can't put it outside in anyway I live in an apartment.
2-
WNYA (4 digi-channels) - These channels get impacted the worse.
WNYT (3/3 digi-channels) - While these are a close second.

While these get impacted, but not as bad.
WTEN (4 digi-channels)
WYBN (14 digi-channels)
WXXA (4 digi-channels)
WCWN (4 digi-channels)
WYPX (6 digi-channels)
__________________________________________________ ________
WRGB (3 digi-channels) - are a no show 98% of the time, but that's broadcast issue.

3- These issues are there constantly. But are minor, until they start moving about alot. The more activity/people above, the worse it gets. So bad the channels pixelate and freeze. The audio drops, then the signal completely drops out. The rolling bar/static issue has been resolved. But when that was happening it got worse with upstairs movement.

I understand electrical interference. But what is multipath?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYota1 View Post
I thought you already HAD an amplifier?
Have you ever SEEN these people, or are they mystery neighbors?? How do THEY get TV? Maybe they have multiple antennas and carry them around
the rooms! There has to be a reason why THESE people are creating issues that previous neighbors weren't. In jest -- I'm wondering if they're
Martians and the antennas on their heads are lousing things up!!
I do have an amplifier, but I removed it when I got rid of cable tv. My OTA signal was fine without it, up until my latest upstairs neighbors.

No, haven't seen them. There are ten apartments in my building. But people are moving in/out often. So it's hard to keep track of who's who.

As for their tv service it could be Cable, OTA, Cellphone/streaming?

This is something my landlord would do. Rent to illegals, maybe martians, or french illegals.
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post #5901 of 5949 Old 06-19-2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by IN2tvClassics View Post
WNYA (4 digi-channels) - These channels get impacted the worse.
WNYT (3/3 digi-channels) - While these are a close second.

3- These issues are there constantly. But are minor, until they start moving about alot. The more activity/people above, the worse it gets. So bad the channels pixelate and freeze. The audio drops, then the signal completely drops out. The rolling bar/static issue has been resolved. But when that was happening it got worse with upstairs movement.

I understand electrical interference. But what is multipath?
Multipath is when a television signal arrives at an antenna from two different locations, usually direct from the transmitter and a reflection off of a nearby object. The reflection in the analog days would produce a ghost image on the TV. With digital, a tuner can handle some multipath, but only to a certain level. Then it can't and the picture drops or freezes.

The stations giving you the biggest issue are VHF, which is more prone to multipath and other interference. Compounding the issue is the 2V, which only has a single element for VHF; largely an afterthought so they could put UHF/VHF on the box. It's basically an omnidirectional rod antenna, receiving signal and reflections and interference from all directions simultaneously.

In the analog rabbit-ear days, you could always tell someone was coming down the hall at home because the TV picture would ghost, roll or get snowy for a second. The bodies blocked and/or reflected the signal. Even positioning rabbit-ears, we knew we had to go back to the couch to see if what we did worked as standing there messed with the signal. See where I'm going with this?

Your neighbors are reflecting the signal or blocking it ...or both. I'm guessing they walk directly above your antenna with only a few feet between it and them. If not directly above, then I'd bet they're stomping around between your antenna and the transmitters. And you don't have enough of a VHF antenna to get around that. Sadly, VHF takes more aluminum to receive and even more to make an antenna that will attenuate the reflections coming from your neighbors (who could still be alien androids, which would explain both the interference and the signal reflections I jest)

The solve? Better VHF-Hi antenna. There are a lot of 'em out there. My advice: start cheap and keep receipts.
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post #5902 of 5949 Old 06-19-2019, 12:51 PM
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So multipath is like the signal starts [broadcast] ---->------ >---------< splits because of interference, goes around it if possible. Then the split signal combines, continues >-----------[my antenna receives]

Would receiving broadcast from a repeater make things worse?

I get two signals of WNYT, 13-1, 13-1, etc.


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The solve? Better VHF-Hi antenna. There are a lot of 'em out there. My advice: start cheap and keep receipts.
Well I was hoping to avoid that. But if I need to for OTA tv harmony. How about these three? Would I see any improvements replace my 2V with one of them?

ClearStream 2MAX UHF/VHF Indoor/Outdoor HDTV Antenna
ClearStream 4MAX UHF/VHF Indoor/Outdoor HDTV Antenna
ClearStream FUSION Amplified UHF/VHF Indoor/Outdoor HDTV Antenna
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So multipath is like the signal starts [broadcast] ---->------ >---------< splits because of interference, goes around it if possible. Then the split signal combines, continues >-----------[my antenna receives]
Don't confuse multipath with interference. With multipath, your antenna receives the direct signal and - a split second later - the same signal that bounced off of, say, a building across the street or an airplane flying overhead. The same signal took two paths to get to you. Two paths. Multipath.

If it's easier, imagine the afternoon sun. Now imagine your neighbor steps in front of you. Can't see the sun, anymore, but you're getting lots of light reflected off of nearby buildings and such. Same stuff happens to radio waves.

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Would receiving broadcast from a repeater make things worse?

I get two signals of WNYT, 13-1, 13-1, etc.
From what I can tell, WNYT's repeaters are UHF.. When discussing television reception, the actual RF channel is what's important, not the virtual channel you see on the screen.


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Well I was hoping to avoid that. But if I need to for OTA tv harmony. How about these three? Would I see any improvements replace my 2V with one of them?

ClearStream 2MAX UHF/VHF Indoor/Outdoor HDTV Antenna
ClearStream 4MAX UHF/VHF Indoor/Outdoor HDTV Antenna
ClearStream FUSION Amplified UHF/VHF Indoor/Outdoor HDTV Antenna
You need more VHF-Hi. The 2MAX and 4MAX appear to have the same, single VHF element (the long element near the top). I doubt the Fusion is much better w/r/t VHF. You need more VHF elements.

I've hung bigger antennas from the ceilings of guest rooms. Don't have guests that often. Have television every day.
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IN2tvClassics : I'm going to assume you don't live in an apartment complex made of concrete or cinder block, because those materials will kill VHF signals. That is, unless your antenna is in front of a window, facing the transmitter, then that should work. If your complex is wood frame, you should be able to put an antenna like DrDon is suggesting almost anywhere in your apartment and get better signal strength for VHF.

Good job on your part, DrDon, for thinking about multipath. In my experience, UHF has been more prone to multipath, so I didn't go in that direction.
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post #5905 of 5949 Old 06-19-2019, 10:20 PM
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You need more VHF-Hi. The 2MAX and 4MAX appear to have the same, single VHF element (the long element near the top). I doubt the Fusion is much better w/r/t VHF. You need more VHF elements. I've hung bigger antennas from the ceilings of guest rooms. Don't have guests that often. Have television every day.
Would any of these work for me? Are there any VHF-Hi antennas I could attach to my 2V?

ClearStream 5® VHF Attic/Outdoor HDTV Antenna
DB4e 4-Element Bowtie Attic/Outdoor HDTV Antenna
Digiwave Digital Outdoor Amplified HDTV Antenna
GE Pro Outdoor Yagi Antenna
RCA Mini Yagi Antenna
Antop Flat-Panel Smartpass Amplified Outdoor Indoor TV Antenna with High Gain 4G LTE Filter
Winegard Elite 7550 Long Range VHF/UHF Outdoor HDTV Antenna



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Originally Posted by Brian in CT View Post
IN2tvClassics : I'm going to assume you don't live in an apartment complex made of concrete or cinder block, because those materials will kill VHF signals. That is, unless your antenna is in front of a window, facing the transmitter, then that should work. If your complex is wood frame, you should be able to put an antenna like DrDon is suggesting almost anywhere in your apartment and get better signal strength for VHF.
My apartment building was built back between 1960-70's. So it's most likely concrete or cinder block. It has bricks all around, with metal siding. The only place for my antenna, is pointed in front of my window, facing the closest transmitter.
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Originally Posted by IN2tvClassics View Post
Would any of these work for me?
If you could add links, that'd help as I'm going to be pressed for time the next 6-10 days. I linked you what would likely work in my previous post. Atrocious to have in the living room, but you do what ya gotta do.

And, yes, you could add a VHF-Hi to your Clearstream, but you'd need a UHF-VHF joiner, not a regular splitter/combiner. Best to go with a combo yagi, if you ask me.

Silly afterthought.. next time your neighbors are moving around, try setting your antenna on its side, so the VHF element is vertical instead of horizontal. Likely won't help much, but it'd be interesting to see if there's a difference.

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post #5907 of 5949 Old 06-20-2019, 05:26 PM
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My apartment building was built back between 1960-70's. So it's most likely concrete or cinder block. It has bricks all around, with metal siding. The only place for my antenna, is pointed in front of my window, facing the closest transmitter.
Ouch. That explains a lot. Basically, you can only place your antenna in that spot by the window to get VHF. Also, metal siding will diminish both VHF AND UHF signals. If you were a little closer (within 15 miles) to the transmitters and not in a terrain low spot, I would have you get a cheap pair of rabbit ears to get VHF. I'm sure, with some research, you can find a VHF-Hi antenna with more of the needed elements, but not too big for the amount of space you have. DrDon's suggestion of a UHF-VHF joiner will be great once you find the right antenna. Unfortunately, my limited expertise in antennas died with analog TV.
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post #5908 of 5949 Old 06-20-2019, 09:23 PM
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If you could add links, that'd help as I'm going to be pressed for time the next 6-10 days. I linked you what would likely work in my previous post. Atrocious to have in the living room, but you do what ya gotta do.

And, yes, you could add a VHF-Hi to your Clearstream, but you'd need a UHF-VHF joiner, not a regular splitter/combiner. Best to go with a combo yagi, if you ask me.

Silly afterthought.. next time your neighbors are moving around, try setting your antenna on its side, so the VHF element is vertical instead of horizontal. Likely won't help much, but it'd be interesting to see if there's a difference.

Ok, here are the antennas I listed above. Anyone a promising for my situation?

ClearStream 5® VHF Attic/Outdoor HDTV Antenna
https://store.antennasdirect.com/C5-...V-antenna.html

DB4e 4-Element Bowtie Attic/Outdoor HDTV Antenna
https://store.antennasdirect.com/DB4...v-antenna.html

Digiwave Digital Outdoor Amplified HDTV Antenna
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Digiwave...5005/301015389

GE Pro Outdoor Yagi Antenna
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Pro-O...3685/302704483

RCA Mini Yagi Antenna
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RCA-Mini...752Z/303087500

Antop Flat-Panel Smartpass Amplified Outdoor Indoor TV Antenna with High Gain 4G LTE Filter
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Antop-Fl...400B/300489243

Winegard Elite 7550 Long Range VHF/UHF Outdoor HDTV Antenna
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Winegard...550A/304188146

I also came across this site: http://dennysantennaservice.com/
Would his antenna be something that may work for me?

As for joiner/combiners I have one of these.
https://www.amazon.com/2512-ChannelP...ACZQ855V8BXCV8

I currently have my setup [attached pic] with two antennas. The 2V is my main antenna, the dipole was added a few months ago for CH 6. For a bit it did help. But that ended with my new neighbors.
So I left it up, because it was a pita to put up. lol It didn't matter much because CBS 6-1 is also shown on 45-3, TBD 6-2 I don't watch, 6-3 Comet is streamed online & ROKU.
I still have the antenna amplifier I "used" when I still had cable tv. Are there any changes to my setup that may fix my problem?
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Nope to all. See my links. Though a couple on Denny's page look promising.

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post #5910 of 5949 Old 06-20-2019, 09:51 PM
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Nope to all. See my links. Though a couple on Denny's page look promising.

The Fracarro 6E512F looks like it would too big for being indoors.

Winegard Platinum Series HD7694P also looks too big, but it's under the range I need.

What about the second to last link. Aren't the horizontal elements correct?
http://dennysantennaservice.com/ez_hd_tv_Antenna.html
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