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post #121 of 1270 Old 02-12-2004, 06:58 AM
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Hey Everyone.. Long time since I have posted on here. I do have some quick questions. I'm on the south side of Flint right now and was wondering how big of an antenna should i get to pick up locals for HD? or how small of an antenna can I get for locals? Currently I have comcast and get ABC, nbc (except it looks like crap is only 480. We are thinking about going to D and wondering about the antenna situation. Also, last question , does anyone have D with a larger screen such as our 51"? If so, how is the pixlation on the screen? I hear that d is only great on screens around 27 inches.
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post #122 of 1270 Old 02-12-2004, 09:42 AM
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Well if you just want locals you really could get by with a Silver Sensor indoors, but if you want a selection, go for the biggest antenna you can afford. I'm in Flushing and at this point I get about 15 ota HD/DT stations. I'm using a Televes antenna and a Channel Master 77xx series preamp. Overload is not a problem, I can see WEYI' s tower at night from an upstairs bedroom. While the Televes is a little hard to get and expensive now, I'd opt for a good old 8 bay bowtie from CM along with the 77xx preamp, seems to be the hands down overall favorite in these forums.

In case you're wondering here are the channels I get: 14-1, 15-1, 21-1, 22-2, 30-1, 36-1, 38-5, 41-1, 44-1*, 44-1*, 45-1, 55-2, 57-3, 58-2, 59-2 , 43-1* (I'll leave out the call letteres and their remapped locations, too much typing..)

* 44-1 WWJ-DT & 44-1 WZPX Lansing/ GR depending on antenna position, 43-1 Weather dependent due to WZPX analog.

As for D, I've had both D and E* at the same time and I'd say they were about equivalent in quality. On a 55" set you might notice some artifacts, but less with D due to their methods of compression, instead of blocks it just appears softer. If you tweak your set a bit you should be fine. I'm using a 38" direct view and if I get close I can notice it but I tend to watch the show and not the picture so it really doesn't bother me too much, I know others feel different. If your moving up from cable anything is an improvement. I finally got my aunt to switch and there is a world of difference on the analog package level.

Note: if you're looking at D, find a relative or some vacant land in Fenton or below to use as a service address, you can use your home address as a mailing address, this is called "Moving" do a search here and in the TiVo forums if you're unfamiliar with the term. Flint is in a Pegasus area, which means D customers here pay more for less. If you are in Fenton or south, you can get Detroit locals, in Flint there are none yet, possibly in a month or two, but you will still deal with the Pegasus service charge. If you're looking at D then be sure one of your units is a DTiVo, at $99 it's one of the best deals out there. There will be a HD TiVo soon but at $$$. As a previous customer of E*, their service if fine, their PVRs are crap.
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post #123 of 1270 Old 02-12-2004, 10:51 AM
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Thanks Matt,

Couple other questions. First, which D* local installers would you recommend? I will look into the "move" part. We did have D* about 3 years ago and I personally don't remeber a fee. But that was along time ago. Also, My uncle was reading the message and he wanted to know if you worked at Delphi. Almost ready to drop comcast.. Have the DSL up and running and now it's time for the complete jump..
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post #124 of 1270 Old 02-12-2004, 02:18 PM
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Matt,
I live in Flint and have D* and I dont go thru Pegasus. I deal directly with D*.
I have a Yamaha projector and a Samsung T160 D*/off the air receiver and I love the quality of the D* HD stations when they broadcast in HD...its awesome. I just got a flyer in the mail from D* and they are adding locals in April. But since I get locals off the air I'm not going to bother adding them.
Paul
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post #125 of 1270 Old 02-12-2004, 09:22 PM
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jcapone, Can't recommend an installer for D, i do my own installs, for antennas Bruce's Antennas has been very helpful and I can recommend him highly, don't know if he does Sat. No, I'm not at Delphi, must be some other Matt...

Paul, I guess you are right. I plugged a few Flint zip's into http://www.localprovider.org/ and they show Direct as provider, plug in 48433, Flushing, and you get Pegasus. Be thankful you don't have to deal with them, pay more, get less much like comcast. I'd still recommend a southern address if you want Sat delivered network programming to TiVo, which I do. I'd really like to get an HDTiVo, but I'm waiting to see how well they work.
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post #126 of 1270 Old 02-13-2004, 12:08 AM
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I tried to pick up WEYI tonight (Thursday), nothing. Sometimes I got a signal (up to 50), sometimes zero. From my home, WEYI is almost directly between WNEM and WJRT, so that is where my antenna is aimed. After the two feet of snow is gone, I will have to climb up there and add a pre-amp. Anyway, now that I have "moved", WNEM is no longer an issue and I can aim the thing better.

Anyone catch the Wings on ESPN last week? Was it just me or did the picture slip out of HD off and on during the second and third periods? The main camera seemed to lose resolution and the picture was stretched. Other than that it was a fun game unless your name is Yzerman.
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post #127 of 1270 Old 02-13-2004, 06:51 AM
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Matt: I will check them out for antennas, as I haven't seen what is avaiable yet. Sorry about the Delphi thing, he just said your name and area sounded real familiar to a guy he worked with. We just got the 10% coupon in the mail yesterday for best buy. Might head that way this weekend to see what type of equipment they have.

Paul: Thanks for saying that Flint doesn't go thru Pegasus. I was getting scared I would have to pay more for D*. I was wondering though what type of antenna do you have and what side of town you on.

Thanks everyone.. You guys have been a great help.
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post #128 of 1270 Old 02-13-2004, 09:51 AM
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jcapone, It took me 3 tries before I found an antenna that works for me. Luckily for me I'm relatively high, El 750', so that helps. you can check your elevation here http://terraserver-usa.com/address.aspx . I got my Televes back when it was affordable, $75 delivered, now they are up to $150+. In one of the other antenna threads there was a comparison of antennas and the CM 8 bay performance was similar to the Televes, but the CM had a bit broader look angle, gain was quite similar. So armed with that info I'd likely go with the CM today. At this point none of the area channels are using VHF so you can get by with a UHF setup.

A good quality preamp is key too. What you need to look for is very low noise, most of the RS stuff is junk, often you loose what HD you had with a noisey preamp. The CM 77xx series is in short supply at the moment, is very highly regarded in these forums, well worth getting. Check out Solid Signal, one of sponsors here for Antennas, preamps and rotors. They are located near Detroit i believe. If you go with the CM equipment odds are Bruce has it or can get it.

I've had HD for a little over 2 years now and things have really picked up lately. At first there were only 2 or 3 channels available, now in this area we have complete coverage of all networks, which is quite rare from what I read.
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post #129 of 1270 Old 02-20-2004, 06:53 AM
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I hate to even ask, but...

Any updates on Fox 66?

With Fox corporate beginning to distribute their equipment, I'm going to be anxious for some Fox primetime programming in HD this fall.

Something tells me I'll have to look elsewhere...
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post #130 of 1270 Old 02-20-2004, 03:26 PM
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Wow, absolute elevation doesn't seem to mean much. I live in Holt at 990' which is basically a swamp, you claim 750' is high, and Boyne City (where I grew up and known for hills and skiing) is at 248'. BTW, from Holt I can pick up WJRT but that's about it except under unusual weather circumstances; no Detroit stations; and most of the Grand Rapids stations.

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Originally posted by Matt L
[b]jcapone, It took me 3 tries before I found an antenna that works for me. Luckily for me I'm relatively high, El 750', so that helps. you can check your elevation here http://terraserver-usa.com/address.aspx

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post #131 of 1270 Old 02-21-2004, 07:36 AM
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Elevation is a relative thing, if I go south from my location 1/2 mile, I quickly loose 25', a little further and it's 50', so in relation to others near by I am at a good elevation. For what ever reason, I seem to be in a great spot 16 channels and counting.

GenoV, no luck getting FOX from Lansing? 38-5? They come in very strong for me.
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post #132 of 1270 Old 02-23-2004, 07:25 AM
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Matt, I currently only have an attic install and live over by Mt. Pleasant, so Fox from Lansing is not an option right now.

I plan to change to a roof install this spring and will try at that time, but it still might be quite a chore considering the distance to their tower.
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post #133 of 1270 Old 03-02-2004, 08:59 PM
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I'm in Mount Pleasant. I'm having an antenna installed Thursday, what should I point at? I have several things in a few directions, all about the same 60 mile distance, some shorter, some longer. My thought has been Lansing would probably offer me the most, right?

-Aaron Mitti
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post #134 of 1270 Old 03-02-2004, 09:20 PM
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mitti, no rotor? What antenna are you getting? The CM 8 bay bow tie is one of the better choices. At your distance you'll want a great pre amp too. Everyone's favorite, the CM77xx series, is in very short supply, hope your installer has one. At your distance there are too many variables to give a definate answer, but Lansing has a much better group of HD stations than Flint, if I had to pick one it would be Lansing. However, Lansing has no ABC HD at this point so WJRT is your most likley option.
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post #135 of 1270 Old 03-03-2004, 06:31 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Matt L
mitti, no rotor? What antenna are you getting? The CM 8 bay bow tie is one of the better choices. At your distance you'll want a great pre amp too. Everyone's favorite, the CM77xx series, is in very short supply, hope your installer has one. At your distance there are too many variables to give a definate answer, but Lansing has a much better group of HD stations than Flint, if I had to pick one it would be Lansing. However, Lansing has no ABC HD at this point so WJRT is your most likley option.

I don't know what antenna yet. I'm getting VOOM installed with their $0 upfront offer and they're paying for the antenna. If it's not any good I plan on upgrading, though hopefully the installer can make me a good deal if I need to get a better one. To tell you the truth, I haven't had the opportunity to watch local channels in some time, I haven't a clue whats on any of them besides PBS.

I was reading somewhere, I think another thread, about pre-amps, and how they're burn up if they're used too close to a tower. I have WCMU's tower fairly close to my line of sight direction to Lansing. Since I'm not looking for any SD would this be a problem? Do I need a filter to get rid of the SD bands to keep my pre-amp safe? Oh, yeah, I don't have a pre-amp yet either, but I'm going to be working on this all this weekend, doing what I need to see some HD..

I really don't want a rotor because I don't want to have to make my girl friend figure it out. Would it be possible to use two antenna's and point them in two different directions? Bring them in under one cable? Would it be worth it, where else can I point, Flint? What I'd really want is UPN, but I Detroit is the only provider correct, and that's completely impossible?

BTW, I looked up my elevation, I'm 820 feet.

-Aaron Mitti
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post #136 of 1270 Old 03-03-2004, 06:50 AM
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mitti -

As far as what different directions you can point....WWTV Channel 9.1 from Cadillac (tower is south of there) is a nice option for CBS. You shouldn't have any problem pulling it in with a good antenna. Flint has WJRT 12 for ABC.
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post #137 of 1270 Old 03-03-2004, 09:41 AM
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Mitti, if it's Voom installing the antenna I wouldn't expect too much. i don't know what there contract states but I'd bet it's just going to be a basic antenna, but I could be wrong. As to the issue with the pre amp, that's a non-issue with any well designed unit. in order to receive HD from any distance you need a very low noise pre amp, the CM 77xx series does an exceptional job. At my location, I can see WEYI's tower at night, it's about 10 miles north of me. I have my CM pre amp coupled to one of the highest gain antennas out there, the Televes 75, and I have 0 problems with overload, so toss that argument out.

From your location it looks like you are dealing with multiple transmitter locations, as do I. Cm also makes a great remote control rotor many here use, it's quite easy after you pre-program it for anyone to use. I guess what I would do is let Voom do the install and then evaluate what you get and then decide if you want to go after more. If you do, you know what your options are. Enjoy your HD!
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post #138 of 1270 Old 03-04-2004, 11:31 AM
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I live in Harrison and get 2 CBS [Saginaw & Cadillac] 2 NBC, and 1 ABC just fine. I have the Televes DAT-75 and the CM 7777. I use a rotor, and If I did not I would not get half of what I have. As far as the girlfriend and the rotor. With a rotor you can have a better shot of getting what you want and I think it would be best in the long run.
One other thing. RG6 quad shield and T&B Snap-N-Seal connectors.
What is VOOM?
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post #139 of 1270 Old 03-04-2004, 11:59 AM
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Voom is a third Sat provider that focuses on HD. They offer upwards of 30 HD channels from what I've read. Used to be pricey when they debuted last fall but prices are dropping rapidly. Down to $250 or free depending on what you read, do a search in the hardware section and you'll find much more info. Sears had an exclusive as of last fall, don't know if it's still true.
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post #140 of 1270 Old 03-04-2004, 12:01 PM
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Jitterbug -

You're not getting HD from the Saginaw CBS are you? I think that would be news to a lot of us.

Also, which 2 NBC's do you speak of, and are they HD as well?
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post #141 of 1270 Old 03-04-2004, 01:08 PM
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I mean the digital signal 5-1 WNEM, but I use the Cadillac 9-1 for HD. I also get the WJRT ABC from Saginaw 3 signals. 12-1, 12-2, and the weather 12-3. I get the WEYI HD, [or is that the one with the HD signal picked up by the STB and never on?] but I forget what the other NBC is digital or HD?? I forget, will check when I get home. I am just saying I am 35 miles north and can get these stations from the tri-city area so it should be easier for someone in Mt Pleasant. The Cadillac CBS is strong here so he should get that as well.
I have not used my HD in a while. I stuck a scanner antenna on the same mast and it has not been right since. I used to get more regular stations. Waiting for the snow to go away.
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post #142 of 1270 Old 03-04-2004, 01:15 PM
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Thanks for the info.

Maybe the other NBC is Traverse City (I think it's channel 7)?
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post #143 of 1270 Old 03-04-2004, 05:20 PM
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I just received my new antenna (CM 8 bow tie model) and the CM7777 pre-amp. I hope to get them on the roof when the snow is gone. Would I benefit by having a rotor with that antenna? I'm sure it is not as directional as your Televes. I live in Midland and get WJRTHD, WNEM digital only, and the ghost of WEYI. After reading you guys, I want to take a shot at Cadillac and even Lansing.
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post #144 of 1270 Old 03-04-2004, 09:58 PM
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If you're going to the trouble of putting up an antenna and preamp, you should go for the rotor too. Even if you focus on one set of towers, odds are you will have to tweak the direction to get the best signal from each one. I'm not aware of any stations sharing a tower as they do in Detroit, WB, PBS and CBS are all on one tower there, makes pointing simple.

From some of the graphs I've seen, the CM is pretty close on gain, I do believe my Telves has the edge in directionality, just wish it could overcome the WZPX/ WTVS/WWJ issue. I'm looking into filing a complaint with the FCC, doubt it will do any good.
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post #145 of 1270 Old 03-06-2004, 12:24 AM
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I ordered the rotor today. My current antenna must have moved a little over the winter, because my signal strength for WJRT has dropped about 10% since the fall. WEYI is no longer strong enough to receive a picture, and WNEM is clear as a bell. A sd bell. What's the deal on WZPX/WTVS/WWJ? Are their signals interfering with each other?
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post #146 of 1270 Old 03-06-2004, 10:19 AM
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Yeah, FCC standard states that DT stations on the same freq. should be at least 125 miles apart, WZPX is "officially" in Battle Creek, but their tower is really closer to Lansing, the towers are just about 90 miles apart. They are assigned analog Ch 43 and Digital channel 44, WTVS PBS from Detroit is on DT 43 and WWJ CBS Detroit is on DT44. This assignment effectively wipes out any reception of WTVS and WWJ north and west of Detroit. WZPX used to be on limited hours and I could watch my signal from WWJ drop from mid 70's to 20 the second they powered up. WTVS has a lot of stuff I'd like to see in HD that WKAR doesn't carry so it's a little frustrating. It irritates me that 2 stations I'd like to have access too are blocked by one I have no interest in (PAX). Apparently stations can control their broadcast patterns, but WZPX chooses not to. I'm pretty happy with WLNS CBS from Lansing, but they don't have DD 5.1 capability, and for the Grammys and other special events CBS does do 5.1 audio. At some point their HD programming will be in 5.1 too, I just hope WLNS get the equipment sooner than later.

Rant mode off....
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post #147 of 1270 Old 03-08-2004, 11:20 AM
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Well, ordered E* today, which should be installed saturday. Looking to get an antenna sometime this week. I did have one question. I was at a local sat/antenna shop and was looking at the ota locals thru his antenna. I did notice that alot of them where not full screen on the wjrt 12. How do you tell the difference between digital and HD for them, besides when a show is playing in HD?
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post #148 of 1270 Old 03-08-2004, 11:59 AM
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The sub channels are most likley 4X3, SD. The only true full screen programming is from the networks during prime time and the occasional movie run on some station like WKBD UPN-50, 14-1. WJRT, the last time I looked --and it has been months-- stretches everything that is not HD to something like 14x9, truly ugly to me. This is a practice that is despised by many, including me. I believe a station should send out a "pure" picture, and let the end user distort it how ever they like, let me see the real picture if I want. That's why I refuse to watch WJRT. WXYZ comes in very well for me and I support them. As to how to tell if it's HD, once you see it you won't mistake anything else for HD.

As for the rest of the F/S/BC stations, WNEM has no plans on doing HD, and WEYI is inept at best. If you're in the Flint area I recommend getting the best antenna you can and going for out of market stations. Lansing has a great group of stations, CBS, NBC and FOX, PBS, no ABC at this point; and Detroit has a full roster. It can be difficult to get WWJ, 44-1, and WTVS 43-1, see my post above, but the rest come in great including WB and UPN. As I have mentioned, I'm at 15 HD/SD stations and counting, everything is covered so I'm quite happy.
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post #149 of 1270 Old 03-19-2004, 07:08 AM
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Well, I picked up a Silver Sensor last weekend just to test and see what i get with my Dish 811 box. I can pick up most locals such as wjrt, wnem, and WEYI. I can also pick up WLNS at about 70%, which I don't think is bad since it's in Lansing. I think i'm going to put up a roof antenna though or if i can find a tower that. Anyone know someone that doesn't want there tower anymore or how much they cost?

On another note.. It seemed to me that WEYI or WNEM (Which ever one was NBC) was a little bit off sync last night when i was watching The Apprentice. It looked great besides the sound though, nothing too noticeable. Looking for ward to picking up the Detroit locals though with the outdoor antenna..
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post #150 of 1270 Old 03-19-2004, 11:19 AM
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Is anyone able to pick up WEYI in HD? I can finally get a picture again, but it is always 4x3 on both 30.1 and 30.2.
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