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post #8971 of 10472 Old 02-01-2011, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gilbert View Post

Does anyone receive KIRO on the channel 51/Tiger Mountain translator?

According to TV Fool, it's our fourth strongest station, line of sight, at -61.6 dBM. We can't receive it at all, even aimed directly at it. Yet we get KOMO/KING/KONG with high signal strength and they're '2 edge' in the -77 to -81 dBm range.

Yes, I do receive it. And it interferes with KUNS on one of my tuners (as mentioned earlier in this thread).
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post #8972 of 10472 Old 02-01-2011, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by PoppaPig View Post

NE 134th ST and 87th Ave NE (Kirkland 98034)

PoppaPig
There's only a few things it might be.
You are almost on top, just a few feet below the back side. I can't see what trees or how many of them you're going through, so that might be an issue since there's about a 1/4 miles worth.

Also, only ch13 comes more from the west, in your location, and it goes right over the edge of the hill by NE 126th & 72nd ave NE. There may be something in that extra half mile of trees that combines to be a problem.

Next, there's usually some connecting rods from the rear elements to the balun/box terminals that are insulated from the main boom. Make sure that those rods are not shorting out on the boom, mast, clamps or something else. You're so close to ch's 9 & 11 that they would come in on the UHF portion of the antenna by itself. Ch13 needs that long rear section, though.

Finally, you didn't mention it, so I assume you have no amplifier, which is a good thing. If you did, it could easily cause your tuner to drive down its built in gain control, which would effectively make ch13 seem very weak.

If everything looks okay, then it's time to try another location, and/or reaim the antenna for ch13 to see what happens. The other local channels are so strong with that antenna, misaiming it shouldn't be a big deal.
Let us know what you find.
Dan
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post #8973 of 10472 Old 02-01-2011, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DanKurts View Post

PoppaPig
There's only a few things it might be.
You are almost on top, just a few feet below the back side. I can't see what trees or how many of them you're going through, so that might be an issue since there's about a 1/4 miles worth.

Also, only ch13 comes more from the west, in your location, and it goes right over the edge of the hill by NE 126th & 72nd ave NE. There may be something in that extra half mile of trees that combines to be a problem.

Next, there's usually some connecting rods from the rear elements to the balun/box terminals that are insulated from the main boom. Make sure that those rods are not shorting out on the boom, mast, clamps or something else. You're so close to ch's 9 & 11 that they would come in on the UHF portion of the antenna by itself. Ch13 needs that long rear section, though.

Finally, you didn't mention it, so I assume you have no amplifier, which is a good thing. If you did, it could easily cause your tuner to drive down its built in gain control, which would effectively make ch13 seem very weak.

If everything looks okay, then it's time to try another location, and/or reaim the antenna for ch13 to see what happens. The other local channels are so strong with that antenna, misaiming it shouldn't be a big deal.
Let us know what you find.
Dan

Thank you for the thoughtfull response Dan. Its much appreciated. I did notice the signal flashes on if I am touching the antenna and a car crosses the street in front/below the antenna trajectory! Lol.. I do have two large Fir Trees in the first 60 feet from the antenna trajectory so the car phenomina may be proof they are the problem. I thought a strong VHF broadcast would survive their branches.

I have a buddy coming over Saturday and we're going to do some tinkering. If the rear poles check out and angling further west doesnt help (currently 225 degrees) I'll try the other side of the house which will clear the immediate trees better. It will add about 50' to the existing 50' run. No amp in use at this point.

Thanks again!
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post #8974 of 10472 Old 02-02-2011, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppaPig View Post

The MyQ UHF translator comes in very strong however it is dumbing down the HD broadcast to SD which is very depressing particularly during football..

Note that the "MyQ" translator is actually full power KZJO-DT from Capitol Hill on 25, mapping to 22.1 (Joe-TV), 22.2 (KCPQ in SD) and 22.3 Antenna TV.

We had to knock down 22.2 to SD to accommodate Antenna TV.

Val
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post #8975 of 10472 Old 02-02-2011, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppaPig View Post

Thank you for the thoughtfull response Dan. Its much appreciated. I did notice the signal flashes on if I am touching the antenna and a car crosses the street in front/below the antenna trajectory! Lol.. I do have two large Fir Trees in the first 60 feet from the antenna trajectory so the car phenomina may be proof they are the problem. I thought a strong VHF broadcast would survive their branches.

I have a buddy coming over Saturday and we're going to do some tinkering. If the rear poles check out and angling further west doesnt help (currently 225 degrees) I'll try the other side of the house which will clear the immediate trees better. It will add about 50' to the existing 50' run. No amp in use at this point.

Thanks again!

PoppaPig
Sounds like you're on it. Don't sweat the extra 50ft. Should not be a problem for your install. Remember, don't move the antenna around quickly to find the sweet spot. It takes the tuner about 3 to 10 seconds to lock on. Move it a little, then wait and check. Patience will win out.
Dan
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post #8976 of 10472 Old 02-02-2011, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanKurts View Post

RickE
You're getting ch7 from Tiger Mt. It's coming in on ch51 and getting mapped to ch7.1 by your tuner. It's line of sight to you.
You're 100ft below the hill for getting Queen Anne hill. However, since you are getting a sniff at ch5, try a Channelmaster 7777 preamp. Sure can't hurt.
Let us know what happens.
Dan

Dan,

Since Rick receives 'a' KIRO no matter what direction he points his antenna, is it possible his TV has mapped to his local Everett-area KIRO translator?

Jim

PS I just noticed Trip hit this point above.
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post #8977 of 10472 Old 02-03-2011, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in Seattle View Post

Dan,

Since Rick receives 'a' KIRO no matter what direction he points his antenna, is it possible his TV has mapped to his local Everett-area KIRO translator?

Jim

PS I just noticed Trip hit this point above.

Jim in Seattle
You would sure think so. I suppose it depends on what that particular tuner has been programmed to do when it sees two different channels with the same "name". I wasn't aware KIRO had move HD to the translators. Just after the change over, I noticed some of them had initially kept their old analog outputs. I assumed, since then, they just continued on. Haven't looked for them for a customer in years. Glad they're doing it.
Dan
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post #8978 of 10472 Old 02-03-2011, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanKurts View Post

I wasn't aware KIRO had move HD to the translators. Just after the change over, I noticed some of them had initially kept their old analog outputs. I assumed, since then, they just continued on. Haven't looked for them for a customer in years. Glad they're doing it.
Dan

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan,

I read messages listed above regarding Antenna TV (22.3) and Sony "issues". My CM-7000 maps it correctly with TVGOS, but my Sony Bravia does not at all. The channel list shows 22.3 as the 'current' channel under 4.1 as 'AIR'. Has anyone has figured out a Sony-specific remedy?

Hopefully, it isn't a double rescan because I prefer to not lose the Issaquah stations that popped-in from time to time during various antenna testing last year.

By the way, I can also receive the KIRO Vashon Island translator, K67GJ, so I have three CBS sources available. I used the main QA transmitter earlier this winter when K26IC was dark after the first snowfall. Pretty cool, huh?

Finally, I ran out of summer last year and did not get my VHF antenna in the air but K62FS (analog) from Port Angeles works here for KSTW-11, albeit a bit snowy.

Best regards, Jim
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post #8979 of 10472 Old 02-07-2011, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valuation View Post

Note that the "My" translator is actually full power JOJO-TD from Capitol Hill on 25, mapping to 22.1 (Joe-TV), 22.2 (KC in SD) and 22.3 Antenna TV.

We had to knock down 22.2 to SD to accommodate Antenna TV.

Val

I am also very disappointed that KCPQ (22.2) has been reduced to SD. For many of us in the Puget Sound area, 22.2 is the only way we can get FOX broadcast. It makes no sense to me that FOX take a back seat to Joe. FOX has prime-time and sports HD content and the majority of Joe-TV is reruns that is in SD. While watching the super bowl yesterday I flipped over to Joe and the movie they were airing was in 4:3 SD and while watching the last Seahawks game a few weeks ago, Joe had on SD Infomercials. Even content that was originally in HD, is shrunk down to SD by Joe. The Deadliest Catch last night was originally in HD but when Joe put it out it had letterbox all the way around it. What's the point of wasting HD bandwidth on that SD content when there is actual HD contend available on FOX. Believe me, I can really see the difference between SD and HD. So I guess this is a plea to KCPQ, KJOE, and the Tribune to either transmit FOX in HD on 22.2 or put up some more HD Translators.
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post #8980 of 10472 Old 02-07-2011, 01:18 PM
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S73, I'm not a spokesperson for channel 22, but can explain the technical aspects of why 22.2 is not HD.. FOX provides proprietary equipment for reception and transmission of FOX HD Programming directly to an affiliate. Their policy, and the reason in doing so, is to have 720P HD at roughly 15MB, available for a FOX affillate only. If channel 22 already has one HD 10+ Mb stream on 22.1, there is no physical way they can squeeze in another 15Mb with the 19Mb total allowed in an ATSC-modulated channel.

KCPQ (13) is the official FOX affiliate, and gets priority on the FOX-associated bandwidth. 22.2 in SD is no doubt just a courtesy to provide FOX programming for those who are closer to Capital Hill than Gold Mountain, where KCPQ broadcasts from.

Sure there are ways to make it fit, but involves quite a bit of additional equipment, reduced bit rates on both dot1 and dot2 channels, plus it makes FOX' engineering folks become rather uptight.

32 Year Broadcast Technical Veteran with over ten years in DTV transmission and reception experience.
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post #8981 of 10472 Old 02-07-2011, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s73v3 View Post

So I guess this is a plea to KCPQ, KJOE, and the Tribune to either transmit FOX in HD on 22.2 or put up some more HD Translators.

Tribune has already applied to operate a KCPQ translator from the same tower on Capitol Hill as from which KZJO is transmitted.

See the second record on this page:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=33894
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post #8982 of 10472 Old 02-07-2011, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly From KOMO View Post

S73, I'm not a spokesperson for channel 22, but can explain the technical aspects of why 22.2 is not HD..

They were running 22-2 in 720p until Antenna TV launched. The reason they dropped it to SD was because of the addition of Antenna TV, or so I understand.

- Trip

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #8983 of 10472 Old 02-08-2011, 06:46 AM
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Either that or they got the phone call from Jim at FOX.

32 Year Broadcast Technical Veteran with over ten years in DTV transmission and reception experience.
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post #8984 of 10472 Old 02-08-2011, 11:26 AM
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Hey Seattle friends.
First post here - Rob from Magnolia.

So, I've been without a live television for about 10 years now and decided that I needed to take the plunge. I have been QUITE happy with the internet & dvds for a while, but here's the case: I have an AWESOME home projector setup downstairs and I LOVE to watch the sounders in HD, but the cost of eating and drinking at a bar for every sounders game has sufficiently depleted my wallet.

SO, the long and short of it is: I'm trying to get my projector to play HD antenna signal. I've done about 2 hours of research trying to understand how they signal needs to get from the sky to my screen, but I'm missing one key component. Let me tell you what I was thinking of so far:

1) Antenna - (can't HTML to it) - a monoprice HDTV indoor/outdoor TV antenna - if you go to monoprice(dot)com and then search for HDTV antenna, it's the first thing that comes up. This is what I was planning on mounting on my house to get a signal.


3) Projector - the Infocuse Screenplay 5000 (can't post to it)


Now I don't know what goes between :/ A VCR? A Tuner? A HD Converter?

I'm so sorry to be asking such a specific yet rudimentary question, but I've just had absolutely no success anywhere else.

THANKS so much.
Robert
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post #8985 of 10472 Old 02-08-2011, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by imprompturob View Post

Now I don't know what goes between :/ A VCR? A Tuner? A HD Converter?

In addition to the antenna, you will need an HD tuner box. One that comes to mind is the Samsung DTB H260F (discontinued, check E-bay). If you get one, you will also need to get a HDMI to DVI adapter cable to feed video to your projector, as well as audio cables to feed your sound system.

Here's a thread that breaks down what HD tuners are available: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=179095

James

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post #8986 of 10472 Old 02-08-2011, 05:51 PM
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Now I don't know what goes between :/ A VCR? A Tuner? A HD Converter?

Ebay item number 130476536503 should do the trick. I have read that if you offer them $35 they'll accept. Add the $20 for shipping and it's a good price.
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post #8987 of 10472 Old 02-08-2011, 07:56 PM
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hi imprompturob,

If you are interested in a dual HD tuner DVR that allows you to record one program while watching another live, or watch a previously recorded program while recording two, I would suggest a Channel Master HD DVR:
http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-vide...-34142156.html

This tunes and records only over-the-air (OTA) digital broadcasts in High Definition with Dolby Digital 5.1 audio. The unit receives 8 days max of program guide info from TV Guide. No monthly fees for the use of this unit.

I own two of these (older identical models from Dish), along with HD TiVo and DirecTV HD DVRs. The Channel Master is not as sophisticated as a HD TiVo unit which does have a monthly fee or a one-time lifetime subscription charge.

You have many choices, but this is a no-fee option that appeals to many folks that only need OTA antenna channel reception.

Dave
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post #8988 of 10472 Old 02-08-2011, 08:43 PM
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Which unit pulls in signals best, the CM or Tivo ? Unless of course, your signals are strong enough it doesn't matter
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post #8989 of 10472 Old 02-08-2011, 09:54 PM
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My Dish (CM) has a better tuner. I should have clarified that my HD TiVo is actually the DirecTV version with an older generation tuner, so no contest really. The Dish HD DVR also has a better digital tuner than our Samsung DLP TV and a newer Sylvania (Funai) TV.

In short, I am very satisified with the Dish/CM unit for what it is.

Dave
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post #8990 of 10472 Old 02-08-2011, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imprompturob View Post

Hey Seattle friends.
First post here - Rob from Magnolia.

So, I've been without a live television for about 10 years now and decided that I needed to take the plunge. I have been QUITE happy with the internet & dvds for a while, but here's the case: I have an AWESOME home projector setup downstairs and I LOVE to watch the sounders in HD, but the cost of eating and drinking at a bar for every sounders game has sufficiently depleted my wallet.

SO, the long and short of it is: I'm trying to get my projector to play HD antenna signal. I've done about 2 hours of research trying to understand how they signal needs to get from the sky to my screen, but I'm missing one key component. Let me tell you what I was thinking of so far:

1) Antenna - (can't HTML to it) - a monoprice HDTV indoor/outdoor TV antenna - if you go to monoprice(dot)com and then search for HDTV antenna, it's the first thing that comes up. This is what I was planning on mounting on my house to get a signal.


3) Projector - the Infocuse Screenplay 5000 (can't post to it)


Now I don't know what goes between :/ A VCR? A Tuner? A HD Converter?

I'm so sorry to be asking such a specific yet rudimentary question, but I've just had absolutely no success anywhere else.

THANKS so much.
Robert

imprompturob
First, antenna. Many different flavors. Need to know where on Magnolia you are. There are good and bad areas there (talking antennas, now....). Nearest cross streets will work.
Next, the Channelmaster HD DVR Dave recommended has the same great tuner in the CM7000 (non HD converter box for analog sets). It's far better than the Tivo unit or the Samsung H260 for reception. Makes a good picture, easy to use. I have both, tested them against each other. H260 is great, but went out of production several years ago. I carry the CM7000 in the van for testing, haven't found anything that's even close (works down to -30db, and with very ugly signal waveshapes).
Dan
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post #8991 of 10472 Old 02-09-2011, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanKurts View Post

imprompturob
First, antenna. Many different flavors. Need to know where on Magnolia you are. There are good and bad areas there (talking antennas, now....). Nearest cross streets will work.
Next, the Channelmaster HD DVR Dave recommended has the same great tuner in the CM7000 (non HD converter box for analog sets). It's far better than the Tivo unit or the Samsung H260 for reception. Makes a good picture, easy to use. I have both, tested them against each other. H260 is great, but went out of production several years ago. I carry the CM7000 in the van for testing, haven't found anything that's even close (works down to -30db, and with very ugly signal waveshapes).
Dan

I'm pretty sure that the channelmaster dvr is the same as the Dish network DTVPalDVR, and the same tuner that is in that.
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post #8992 of 10472 Old 02-09-2011, 09:12 AM
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Whichever tuner it is in the Dish/Channel Master HD DVR, it works far better than any other tuner in my house.

Dave
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post #8993 of 10472 Old 02-09-2011, 09:50 AM
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WOW.

This forum is insanely awesome. I live right on the corner of 21st St. W & Barrett. Do we think that antenna will do the trick? I can't post it, but if you go to monoprice and search for antenna, it's the first one that comes up.

I love the idea of an non-subscription tivo thing. Does that also do the Tuner work as well? Will I have to get a Tuner and a Tivo(esque) appliance?

I'm sorry my questions are so rudimentary. I can work with some of the most elaborate computer setups available, but I really have no basic understanding of what the signal from the coax is and how it translates to something understandable by the projector.

THANKS ALL
R
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post #8994 of 10472 Old 02-09-2011, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imprompturob View Post

WOW.

This forum is insanely awesome. I live right on the corner of 21st St. W & Barrett. Do we think that antenna will do the trick? I can't post it, but if you go to monoprice and search for antenna, it's the first one that comes up.

I love the idea of an non-subscription tivo thing. Does that also do the Tuner work as well? Will I have to get a Tuner and a Tivo(esque) appliance?

I'm sorry my questions are so rudimentary. I can work with some of the most elaborate computer setups available, but I really have no basic understanding of what the signal from the coax is and how it translates to something understandable by the projector.

THANKS ALL
R

Are you running Windows? If so you might want to check "The Green Button" forum and look at the many solutions for turning your computer into a Media Center PC (complete with TV tuner/DVR).
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post #8995 of 10472 Old 02-09-2011, 02:57 PM
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Thinking of trying out OTA to get some local stations in HD. Really getting tired of Broadstripe. I would have to locate the antenna in either the attic or in the garage. Can someone give me some recommendations for the best "attic/garage" antennas available? I live in Duvall up on a hill in a development, and the closest cross streets are Manion Way & NE 150th St., if that helps. Thanks.
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post #8996 of 10472 Old 02-09-2011, 05:17 PM
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Hi Rob,

The Channel Master HD DVR does provide the tuner function. In fact, it has two tuners to enable flexibility in recording programs (VCR-style, but to a built-in hard disk drive, so no tapes or DVDs to fuss with) and watching live programs at the same time.

I defer to Dan Kurts to answer your location/antenna/reception question.

Keep asking, your questions will get answered here. Sometime down the road, you may be answering someone else's questions here.

Dave
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post #8997 of 10472 Old 02-09-2011, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imprompturob View Post

WOW.

This forum is insanely awesome. I live right on the corner of 21st St. W & Barrett. Do we think that antenna will do the trick? I can't post it, but if you go to monoprice and search for antenna, it's the first one that comes up.

I love the idea of an non-subscription tivo thing. Does that also do the Tuner work as well? Will I have to get a Tuner and a Tivo(esque) appliance?

I'm sorry my questions are so rudimentary. I can work with some of the most elaborate computer setups available, but I really have no basic understanding of what the signal from the coax is and how it translates to something understandable by the projector.

THANKS ALL
R

imprompturob
So, you live down by the tracks ?!
I grew up near the Ballard Bridge, a few blocks from 15th and Dravus. Know the area too well!
Most of the main chanels will come in, except ch13, from Bremerton location. The hill behind you is in the way. You will get standard def ch13 from the tower on Capital Hill for ch22. Ch13 comes in as 22.2.
It doesn't take much to get good reception, obviously, since you can see the towers. Thing is, it's so strong there that cheapy rabbit ears or indoor types can drive you nuts. Signal is splattering off everything. A small outdoor type will work better, as it will reject most stuff and only look in the basic direction it's pointed.
For your place, try the Winegard HD1080
http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-HD-10.../dp/B001DFTGQU
It's small, and can be mounted on the side of the house if you want, or in a window looking towards the Space Needle. I have tried it in close in locations, works pretty good, can be mounted almost anywhere it has a clear look Down Town.
The CM7000 DVR is a complete package, tuner and DVR. All you need is something for sound, like an amplifier and speakers. It can also handle the strong signals, better than most others. Very easy to set up and use.
If you have a spare PC, then there are tuner cards and software options to use it for the same purpose, with the benefit of being a huge PC monitor. I admit to being biased against the PC route, and not a big fan of leaving it on all the time just for recording TV. (12 years of PC and network support kinda soured me for doing things the tech way. I like off the shelf, pre tested, no bugs simple now!)
I'm not up on what cards are good for over air tuners. Shouldn't take much, though. You're in a strong signal area. Maybe hit up some of your geek buddies at Microsquish in the Media lab and see what they're using. Before you jump, though, take the time to check out the CM7000 DVR. Fry's has them on display. If it's not your thing, they also have lots of cheap parts to build a PC DVR.
Don't sweat the questions. The only dumb question is the one you already know the answer to.
BTW, you have my admiration for having the patience to work with PC's for a living !!
Let us know what happens.
Dan
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post #8998 of 10472 Old 02-09-2011, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by duvallite View Post

Thinking of trying out OTA to get some local stations in HD. Really getting tired of Broadstripe. I would have to locate the antenna in either the attic or in the garage. Can someone give me some recommendations for the best "attic/garage" antennas available? I live in Duvall up on a hill in a development, and the closest cross streets are Manion Way & NE 150th St., if that helps. Thanks.

duvallite
You're one of the lucky ones on top of the hill.
Reception is pretty good, except for ch5. It's weak out there.
There aren't any antennas made for attics. People put them there, and sometimes they work, but the same ones work far better outside. If you're worried about homeowners associations or CC&R's, the FCC passed a law that overrides those for outdoor antennas, used for TV reception
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
It doesn't have to be high above the roof, just 3 to 4 feet is fine. If you can find a way to mount it on the side of the house, and it clears the neighbors in the Southwesterly direction, that's fine, too.
To try one out, RatShack sells the Antennacraft series, and you can return it if you want. You will need at least the HBU33
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3740646
That will get you close. If you can get ch's 4 & 7, then a preamp would be in order. The Channelmaster 7777 is a great one. Fry's has them.
Let us know what you get.
Dan
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post #8999 of 10472 Old 02-10-2011, 01:19 AM
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Dave,

I live on QA and I currently have three different outdoor antennas you could borrow from me for testing your FREE OTA reception. If you post the resulting URL from this website below (a tool we use) we can determine which one would be the best to try first.

The website automatically conceals your personal information for your security. http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=29

Jim
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post #9000 of 10472 Old 02-10-2011, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by DanKurts View Post

duvallite
You're one of the lucky ones on top of the hill.
Reception is pretty good, except for ch5. It's weak out there.
There aren't any antennas made for attics. People put them there, and sometimes they work, but the same ones work far better outside. If you're worried about homeowners associations or CC&R's, the FCC passed a law that overrides those for outdoor antennas, used for TV reception
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
It doesn't have to be high above the roof, just 3 to 4 feet is fine. If you can find a way to mount it on the side of the house, and it clears the neighbors in the Southwesterly direction, that's fine, too.
To try one out, RatShack sells the Antennacraft series, and you can return it if you want. You will need at least the HBU33
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3740646
That will get you close. If you can get ch's 4 & 7, then a preamp would be in order. The Channelmaster 7777 is a great one. Fry's has them.
Let us know what you get.
Dan

Thanks for the info, Dan, especially the link to the FCC rule.
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