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post #18931 of 20576 Old 02-02-2018, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by nyctveng View Post
WNBC stated end of March, it's only February 1. Likely it was failover testing for the Super Bowl in a few days. The 2 biggest sporting events of the year occur over the next few weeks. Do you really think it's in anyone's best interest to shut WNBC-DT on 28 from ESB now??!!!??

Once the shut down does occur, 4.3 & 4.4 will be remapped to 4.1 & 4.2.



No
I'm hoping once the switch over happens, they will bump up bandwidth on wnbc. Currently on 4.3 it's horrendous.

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post #18932 of 20576 Old 02-05-2018, 03:09 PM
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Now you see it (VHF channels), now you don't

For the last week or so, all the VHF channels on some of the tv's in my house have been randomly dropping out and then coming back in. I finally figured out why! And it wasn't what I originally thought.

Briefly, here's my setup. Located in Hillsborough NJ, about halfway between NYC and Philly. Two story colonial house. Two VHF/UHF suburban antennas in attic (one for each city), then thru combiner to basement via RG6 coax. Distribution amp in basement, then four way splitter to two tv's in basement, one tv in family room on first floor, and one Hauppauge WinTV dualHD tuner into the PC in my den on the first floor. Normally signals on all VHF and UHF channels from both cities are from moderate to strong, pictures on tv's great (except during thunderstorms). (NYC, 7, 11, 13: Philly 6, 12).

But for the last week or so, the VHF signals on the two basement tv's were dropping in and out, while the UHF channels were fine. Also, the VHF channels on the first floor tv were normal, good reception. Same for tuner on PC in first floor den. TSReader Lite indicated some minor continuity errors on one of the VHF channels, but reception was fine.
Since all four devices had a common feed, what was wiping out the VHF signal only on the two basement tv's?

Finally I recalled reading that LED bulbs could cause interference. I have several in the basement, in ceiling pull chain bulb outlets. So one by one I turned each off. On the last one the problem went away, VHF channels back to normal signal strength. Thought the problem was solved. Not so fast. I replaced the last LED bulb with an incandescent bulb, but the problem returned, no VHF signals. So can't be LED bulb if signal also vanishes with incandescent. Next step, I pulled the outlet itself, and there it was (see attached photo). The metal parts of the outlet had somehow deteriorated, had oxidized, and this was probably causing a low level of arcing, not enough to cause the bulb to flicker, but enough to interfere with the VHF channels. I replaced the bulb outlet with a new one, plugged the LED bulb back in, and VHF channels now working fine.

So I guess it doesn't take much to wipe out a VHF signal, and cause may not be too obvious. In my case, I have a relatively straighforward situation, live in a single family house, neighbors not too close. But trouble shooting VHF signal problems in more dense living situations, such as in apartment buildings with uncooperative landlords and many neighbors, has to be a bear! Good luck to those posting here solving your intermittent signal VHF problems.
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post #18933 of 20576 Old 02-06-2018, 07:45 AM
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FrankH3rd,

Excellent recount of how you debugged your VHF reception issue and also why OTA should have given VHF the boot many years ago! VHF is simply way too finicky!
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post #18934 of 20576 Old 02-06-2018, 09:01 PM
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FrankH3rd,

Excellent recount of how you debugged your VHF reception issue and also why OTA should have given VHF the boot many years ago! VHF is simply way too finicky!
Agree, great opportunity lost when they stayed on VHF after the digital conversion in 2009, UHF so much better, starting with the smaller size of the antennas.

To make matters worse for me, I receive RF2 from Phily with display channels 2.1 ~ 2.5 (MeTV etc), RF3 from NYC with display channels 33.1 ~ 33.4 (MeTV etc), and RF4 from Atlantic City with display channels 4.1 ~ 4.7 (WACP crappy sales channels). This totally confuses two of my tv's since RF33 displays channels 2.1 & 2.2; and RF28 displays 4.1 & 4.2 (at least that one is going away soon,but maybe it isn't). It's always a surprise what pops up when I tune to 2.1 (sometimes I get WCBS, but other time MeTV; when I tune 4.1, sometimes I get WNBC, but other times WACP; and when I tune to 33.1, sometimes I get WCBS, but other times MeTV, but if the latter then I don't know if it is coming from NYC or Phily. Love it!
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post #18935 of 20576 Old 02-09-2018, 07:29 AM
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Just wanted to post a link to a nice video on TV reception.

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post #18936 of 20576 Old 02-11-2018, 07:11 AM
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Simple and to the point. I love how he more or less disses that "Clear TV" indoor antenna. Unless you're standing next to the transmission towers, I can't possibly see how something flimsy like that would work. The infomercial they run for it is total B.S. Sad to the point they have put on a disclaimer "DOES NOT RECEIVE CABLE TV CHANNELS". Some people seeing the ad are just that stupid, I guess!

Any update on the WNBC-TV move to the current World Trade Center tower? I recorded Super Bowl LII from there this past week. Still saw the same dual ID pop up on the screen. Of course, our reception is with Frontier, as we're in Berlin, CT (southern Hartford County). The relative's package includes channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and (I think) the now-former PBS channel 50 from Montclair, NJ. All in HD with no blackouts either!
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post #18937 of 20576 Old 02-11-2018, 10:25 PM
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I'm hoping once the switch over happens, they will bump up bandwidth on wnbc. Currently on 4.3 it's horrendous.
Agreed. Watching 4.1 v 4.3 OTA on a plasma set you can see a difference. Of course, I still miss the full HDTV signal which no one transmits anymore. In the early days, NJN TV would broadcast a reel that some engineer took walking down the Boardwalk on a sunny shore day, and it was just amazing. No one transmits that full bandwidth signal anymore.....but it was glorious. Sad that the corporate weasels who killed FM radio found a home in TV.

Of course, it is still miles further than what passed for TV in the NTSC days....although I miss sometimes getting the whole Philadelphia market at my place 40 miles north of NY when the conditions were right.
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post #18938 of 20576 Old 02-11-2018, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by KEVINL71 View Post
Simple and to the point. I love how he more or less disses that "Clear TV" indoor antenna. Unless you're standing next to the transmission towers, I can't possibly see how something flimsy like that would work. The infomercial they run for it is total B.S. Sad to the point they have put on a disclaimer "DOES NOT RECEIVE CABLE TV CHANNELS". Some people seeing the ad are just that stupid, I guess!

Any update on the WNBC-TV move to the current World Trade Center tower? I recorded Super Bowl LII from there this past week. Still saw the same dual ID pop up on the screen. Of course, our reception is with Frontier, as we're in Berlin, CT (southern Hartford County). The relative's package includes channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and (I think) the now-former PBS channel 50 from Montclair, NJ. All in HD with no blackouts either!
No one knows anything about tech...sadly. I have explained to folks that your cell phone is just a glorified walkie talkie...smart folk have argued with me that being closer to the cell means you'll get better reception, where I argue that being higher up will get you better cell....yeesh

In Vienna we sit, in late night cafe. Straight Connection, on T.E.E.
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post #18939 of 20576 Old 02-12-2018, 12:44 PM
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, where I argue that being higher up will get you better cell....yeesh
no
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post #18940 of 20576 Old 02-13-2018, 09:03 AM
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So i decided to redo my OTA viewing equipment and got rid of my Tivo's and went with HDHomeruns and apple tv's and its working perfectly. I decided to also setup OTA viewing on my main and bedroom tv's but i noticed that PSIP is non existent. on both TV's i only get PSIP data for NBC and CBS. anyone else? PSIP gone from NYC? thanks.

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post #18941 of 20576 Old 02-13-2018, 11:00 AM
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So i decided to redo my OTA viewing equipment and got rid of my Tivo's and went with HDHomeruns and apple tv's and its working perfectly. I decided to also setup OTA viewing on my main and bedroom tv's but i noticed that PSIP is non existent. on both TV's i only get PSIP data for NBC and CBS. anyone else? PSIP gone from NYC? thanks.
I use a DVR+ and get the guide from the internet. So I can't help you. When I was using PSIP I found that most NYC channels gave only 12 hours. Only a few were really interested in providing more than that. So I found PSIP a terrible way to go. Useable only if that is the only option. With the DVR+ I could use PSIP or get 14 days from the internet. It was a no brainer which way to go. Sometimes it takes a few hours or days for PSIP to populate.
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post #18942 of 20576 Old 02-13-2018, 11:44 AM
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I use a DVR+ and get the guide from the internet. So I can't help you. When I was using PSIP I found that most NYC channels gave only 12 hours. Only a few were really interested in providing more than that. So I found PSIP a terrible way to go. Useable only if that is the only option. With the DVR+ I could use PSIP or get 14 days from the internet. It was a no brainer which way to go. Sometimes it takes a few hours or days for PSIP to populate.
It was more of a curious question as i did it about a week ago and i dont care about psip. ill never watch ota on the tv's, and if ever the time comes, ill just use my phone for the guide. ill watch and record it on the apple tv's which have guide data for weeks.

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post #18943 of 20576 Old 02-16-2018, 06:45 AM
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no
My experience as a ham radio operator on VHF would disagree. A clean 90 mile path with a 5 watt radio mountaintopping..line of sight is all

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post #18944 of 20576 Old 02-16-2018, 06:51 AM
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I use a DVR+ and get the guide from the internet. So I can't help you. When I was using PSIP I found that most NYC channels gave only 12 hours. Only a few were really interested in providing more than that. So I found PSIP a terrible way to go. Useable only if that is the only option. With the DVR+ I could use PSIP or get 14 days from the internet. It was a no brainer which way to go. Sometimes it takes a few hours or days for PSIP to populate.

I use the internet guide on my DVR+ as well. There are a few subchannels that don't quite map perfectly even there, so I use "time and channel" for two broadcasts. Overall the DVR+ is 85% of my Tivo but for way less $, although my lifetime Tivo has turned out to be a great investment, factoring in cable fees I didn't pay before I cut the cord.

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post #18945 of 20576 Old 02-16-2018, 07:19 AM
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My experience as a ham radio operator on VHF would disagree. A clean 90 mile path with a 5 watt radio mountaintopping..line of sight is all
If there were only one cell antenna on top of a mountain, you'd be right.

However, cell towers are scattered all over the place and are optimized to send and receive best within their sectors without causing interference to neighboring sectors. They frequently use mechanical and electrical tilt to put the best signal relatively close in. Adding height on the user equipment end of things may very easily place you above the main lobe of the antenna's elevation pattern, or could lead to you having visibility to multiple cells at the same time. Either of those could lead to poor performance.

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post #18946 of 20576 Old 02-16-2018, 08:33 AM
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Good point, hadn't thought of the precise beam forming in use. Thanks !

Off topic to this thread, I am always entertained though when I fire up my little Yaesu radio after a hike up a hill, and make a pileup on .520.

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post #18947 of 20576 Old 02-20-2018, 01:27 PM
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The latest news on 1WTC I could find:

http://www.broadcastbeat.com/broadca...-transmitters/
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post #18948 of 20576 Old 02-20-2018, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by LenL View Post
The latest news on 1WTC I could find:

http://www.broadcastbeat.com/broadca...-transmitters/
From Len's link:

Quote:
The total output power of the transmitter is 106kW, and beyond the energy efficiency, the transmitter dissipates minimal heat load into the Broadcast Center because of its 100 percent liquid cooled design.
I've built a few PCs, and played with different cooling solutions, but I've gotta wonder what kind of liquid cooling rig does it take to cool a 106kW circuit? That's awesome!

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post #18949 of 20576 Old 02-23-2018, 10:19 AM
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Does anyone have a list of the stations that are moving to the WTC along with their new channel assignments if that applies and dates of the move ?
I maintain a MATV system up here in Ct and my basic lineup consists of all NYC, L.I. and Ct. broadcast stations.
Sure will save me some hunting and pecking.
Very much appreciated.
Jeff
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post #18950 of 20576 Old 02-23-2018, 01:32 PM
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Does anyone have a list of the stations that are moving to the WTC along with their new channel assignments if that applies and dates of the move ?
I maintain a MATV system up here in Ct and my basic lineup consists of all NYC, L.I. and Ct. broadcast stations.
Sure will save me some hunting and pecking.
Very much appreciated.
Jeff
Unfortunately neither the ESB or 1WTC websites have any up to date information as to who is broadcasting where and when. Even Trip (Rabbit Ears)has not updated his site with this information. You basically have to try and figure it out from press releases. Some of the posts on this forum will help you out if you are patient enough to search through them.

One of the other forum members may reply with what you want. I have been looking for the same information. I know a few stations are at 1WTC but I have not seen any improved reception and so am not sure if they are in their final broadcasting configuration in terms of power etc. However I have not made any antenna adjustments either which I'm holding off until the weather gets better and the moves are final.
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post #18951 of 20576 Old 02-23-2018, 04:39 PM
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I?m having a hard time picking up WPIX 11 with a small HD flat indoor antenna from monoprice TVs is in my bedroom and living room, and I?m in queens. Is this channel give anyone else problems? Wondering maybe I should get a better antenna?

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post #18952 of 20576 Old 02-23-2018, 05:02 PM
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WNJU (and WNBC via channel sharing) and WPXN are already on 1WTC. WWOR and WNYW are supposed to be moving there in the next two weeks or so, I think. WNET and WCBS should soon follow. WLIW will move there when the repack occurs.

The post-repack channels on 1WTC will be as follows, with the dates marking the end of the transition period for those stations in parentheses:

WNET moves from 13 to 12 (5/1/20)
WWOR moves from 38 to 25 (3/5/18)
WNYW moves from 44 to 27 (8/2/19)
WLIW moves from 21 to 32 (8/2/19)
WPXN moves from 31 to 34 (8/2/19)
WNJU moves from 36 to 35 (8/2/19)
WCBS moves from 33 to 36 (8/2/19)

In addition, WJLP and WMBC have requested permission to move to 1WTC but those stations are not repacked and the applications have yet to be approved.

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post #18953 of 20576 Old 02-25-2018, 11:21 AM
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I?m having a hard time picking up WPIX 11 with a small HD flat indoor antenna from monoprice TVs is in my bedroom and living room, and I?m in queens. Is this channel give anyone else problems? Wondering maybe I should get a better antenna?
How is your reception of WABC Channel 7 and WNET Channel 13? These three (with WPIX) are VHF-Hi stations and require the proper antenna. (WJLP / MeTV is VHF-Lo, and requires yet a different antenna)
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post #18954 of 20576 Old 02-25-2018, 06:39 PM
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I?m having a hard time picking up WPIX 11 with a small HD flat indoor antenna from monoprice TVs is in my bedroom and living room, and I?m in queens. Is this channel give anyone else problems? Wondering maybe I should get a better antenna?
How is your reception of WABC Channel 7 and WNET Channel 13? These three (with WPIX) are VHF-Hi stations and require the proper antenna. (WJLP / MeTV is VHF-Lo, and requires yet a different antenna)
I have difficulty with those also. I can get ABC 7 most of the time when I auto program channels but never all 3 at once. Do you recommend an indoor antenna? I only need it for my bedroom. I have Fios in my living room and don?t want to get another set top box. Trying to keep my cable bill down.

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post #18955 of 20576 Old 02-25-2018, 06:51 PM
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I have difficulty with those also. I can get ABC 7 most of the time when I auto program channels but never all 3 at once. Do you recommend an indoor antenna? I only need it for my bedroom. I have Fios in my living room and don?t want to get another set top box. Trying to keep my cable bill down.
Then you don’t need an antenna, Fios also passes the local channels via clear qam.

Connect the fios coax straight to the tv, do a cable channel scan. You should see all the locals on the tv without a cable box.
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post #18956 of 20576 Old 02-25-2018, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbino421 View Post
I have difficulty with those also. I can get ABC 7 most of the time when I auto program channels but never all 3 at once. Do you recommend an indoor antenna? I only need it for my bedroom. I have Fios in my living room and don?t want to get another set top box. Trying to keep my cable bill down.
Then you don?t need an antenna, Fios also passes the local channels via clear qam.

Connect the fios coax straight to the tv, do a cable channel scan. You should see all the locals on the tv without a cable box.
Ok thanks I?ll try that.

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post #18957 of 20576 Old 02-27-2018, 09:28 AM
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As mentioned in an earlier post, in mid-January several ESB based stations (2.x, 4.x, 5.x, 9.x) suddenly dropped. I am about 10 miles from the ESB using an outdoor antenna, 6 stories up, clear line of sight.

I have added a Winegard LNA-100 indoor amplifier and it has made a world of difference. All of the missing channels are now restored with the exception of the WOR stations (5.3, 9.1, 9.3 and 9.4). Hopefully these will return with the move the the WTC.
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post #18958 of 20576 Old 03-01-2018, 11:05 AM
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I wrote to NJ PBS complaining about the decision to remove NJTV from the air waves and broadcast only 8.1 to N. Jersey from their Basking Ridge location. After telling them that asking us to repoint our antennas to Basking Ridge I would lose 50 stations broadcasting from NY City what did they suggest? That I re aim my antenna! Talk about people that should be fired for being clueless!

They did say they got numerous complaints besides mine. However they do not understand that having NJTV broadcast from Montclair was probably for the very reason that people had their antennas aimed at the NY stations and would be able (like me) to get NJTV!

They have lost a big audience of OTA viewers and are too stupid to understand how antenna reception works!
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post #18959 of 20576 Old 03-01-2018, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
I wrote to NJ PBS complaining about the decision to remove NJTV from the air waves and broadcast only 8.1 to N. Jersey from their Basking Ridge location. After telling them that asking us to repoint our antennas to Basking Ridge I would lose 50 stations broadcasting from NY City what did they suggest? That I re aim my antenna! Talk about people that should be fired for being clueless!

They did say they got numerous complaints besides mine. However they do not understand that having NJTV broadcast from Montclair was probably for the very reason that people had their antennas aimed at the NY stations and would be able (like me) to get NJTV!

They have lost a big audience of OTA viewers and are too stupid to understand how antenna reception works!
They couldn't care less.

They took the money and ran!!!!!

And this is a "public" television network.

Hah!
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post #18960 of 20576 Old 03-01-2018, 11:15 AM
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Wwor was broadcasting last night to rescan on the 5th. Is this just a channel change? Or also move to wtc?

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