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post #19111 of 20575 Old 04-07-2018, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by criggs View Post
Precisely the same. I have breakup on Channel 4, 5, 7 and 9. I cannot get 2 at all, and 11 and 13 are coming in perfectly.

Mind you, this is with my DVR+. With my Vizio TV, all channels are coming in fine.
Having some similar but different results with my DVR+. I get 2, 5, 7, 11, 13 just fine. Since 4 and 9 went to the 1WTC I have issues. I have not attempted to adjust my antenna pointing yet and that may help me. Waiting for a nice day next week to do that and I will report back in.

I have one Sharp TV fed directly by the antenna and it is getting the same recults as my DVR+.
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post #19112 of 20575 Old 04-07-2018, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
Having some similar but different results with my DVR+. I get 2, 5, 7, 11, 13 just fine. Since 4 and 9 went to the 1WTC I have issues. I have not attempted to adjust my antenna pointing yet and that may help me. Waiting for a nice day next week to do that and I will report back in.

I have one Sharp TV fed directly by the antenna and it is getting the same recults as my DVR+.
Really? I wonder if I have a bum DVR+. I've always gotten much worse results on my DVR+ than the Vizio.
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post #19113 of 20575 Old 04-07-2018, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
WOw! I applaud you for trying to get OTA from MIddletown NY! You seem to be doing better than I would have thought.

Secondly signal strength is only one part of the dynamics. Signal quality is also very important and you need to be able to measure that too! Sometimes it can be the determining factor.

I suspect you are using amplifiers? They can not only boost signal but also noise and interference which impact reception and signal quality.

Finally everything I read says always mount your VHF antenna as high as possible. Above your UHF if you have separate antennas. Some here may chime in with disagreement but that is what I read and follow and it works for me.
Not sure if this helps. Here is some TS Reader info for 7 and 11 from my computer. Signal is not as strong in this particular room in the house due to wiring and splitter in room to serve multiple receivers. Middletown, NY 10940. Last night I played with the rotor a bit and was able to get a better but not viewable picture on 7 if I mis aimed the antenna a bit to the west with 87 percent signal strength on 7 instead of 95 percent on the Homewerx tuner.
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post #19114 of 20575 Old 04-07-2018, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by criggs View Post
Really? I wonder if I have a bum DVR+. I've always gotten much worse results on my DVR+ than the Vizio.
DVR+ tuner discussion is on another forum so I will not go into it. There could be reasons other than you have a bum DVR+.
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post #19115 of 20575 Old 04-07-2018, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
Having some similar but different results with my DVR+. I get 2, 5, 7, 11, 13 just fine. Since 4 and 9 went to the 1WTC I have issues. I have not attempted to adjust my antenna pointing yet and that may help me. Waiting for a nice day next week to do that and I will report back in.
I am a stone's throw from JFK, with roof antenna. I get the new WNBC fine. WWOR is still S&^t. It cannot be watched during daylight. After sunset, reception improves, but still pixelates out... I get WNYE on RF-24 pefect at 100%, so I don't believe it's my antenna.
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post #19116 of 20575 Old 04-08-2018, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tld View Post
What I'm seeing when the broadcast starts pixelating is that the signal strength and snq look basically OK, but the signal error quality (seq) sporadically drops to zero like this:
Code:
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=86 snq=81 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=85 snq=76 seq=100 bps=19336928 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=86 snq=78 seq=0 bps=18366848 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=85 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=89 snq=81 seq=0 bps=19530944 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=86 snq=76 seq=0 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=51 seq=100 bps=19336928 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=74 seq=0 bps=16814720 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=79 seq=0 bps=18819552 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=87 snq=78 seq=0 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=88 snq=85 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
Not good for sure. I never saw that before.

Tom
Tom, What is "snq" and "pps"?

Tony Plachy
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post #19117 of 20575 Old 04-08-2018, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ALP View Post
Tom, What is "snq" and "pps"?
The "snq" is signal to noise quality I believe. The pps aren't too relevant here. That output is from the hdhomerun_config utility, and that's just the packets per second that the HDHomerun is sending over the network. The reason it's zero there was that I just manually tuned in the channel using the hdhomerun_config command to do that test. When I'm actually using the tuner in MythTV for example, I see this:
Code:
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=85 seq=100 bps=9039040 pps=859
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=84 seq=100 bps=8942784 pps=849
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=85 seq=100 bps=8804416 pps=836
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=95 snq=85 seq=100 bps=8972864 pps=853
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=85 seq=100 bps=9293216 pps=882
I'm still seeing occasional cases where that seq drops to zero...though not as often.

Tom
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post #19118 of 20575 Old 04-11-2018, 05:47 PM
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I admit I don't understand a lot of the technical stuff on the forum.

A few stations disappeared, then reappeared a few days later. Is that because of the move from ESB to WTC?

All of WWOR, channel 9, usually 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 and 9.4, has not returned. Channel 11.3, WPIX DT3, hasn't returned. Are they dead now? I use an indoor antenna, and the number of positions I can put it into is limited. My apartment faces north in Westchester County, not facing either transmitter, but I got a sizable collection of stations before this.
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post #19119 of 20575 Old 04-11-2018, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by foxycat View Post
I admit I don't understand a lot of the technical stuff on the forum.

A few stations disappeared, then reappeared a few days later. Is that because of the move from ESB to WTC?

All of WWOR, channel 9, usually 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 and 9.4, has not returned. Channel 11.3, WPIX DT3, hasn't returned. Are they dead now? I use an indoor antenna, and the number of positions I can put it into is limited. My apartment faces north in Westchester County, not facing either transmitter, but I got a sizable collection of stations before this.
Have you done a rescan on your television set?

If not, you must!
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post #19120 of 20575 Old 04-13-2018, 03:03 PM
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Funny how different STBs and TVs behave.

Some equipment holds on to old information such as Empire 4.1 and 4.2 on RF 28 which is now defunct.

One fix is to perform two complete rescans with the antenna disconnected, reconnect the antenna, rescan once more.

Then there are some that may stay stuck on stupid when you try that.

My favorite STB is the Homeworx because it outperforms a few others in my location 08722 where there are no nearby transmitters.

The Homeworx box is guaranteed to quit working after a year or so and they are one that can go bonkers when the antenna is disconnected.
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post #19121 of 20575 Old 04-13-2018, 03:31 PM
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"The Homeworx box is guaranteed to quit working after a year or so and they are one that can go bonkers when the antenna is disconnected."

And this is your favorite? I hate to hear about ones you don't like!

Will you fix change the way WNBC and Cozi now show up - 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4?
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post #19122 of 20575 Old 04-14-2018, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post
"The Homeworx box is guaranteed to quit working after a year or so and they are one that can go bonkers when the antenna is disconnected."

And this is your favorite? I hate to hear about ones you don't like!
Any consumer grade electronics manufactured with ROHS has a limited life. It's all relative.
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post #19123 of 20575 Old 04-15-2018, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 2VW View Post
Any consumer grade electronics manufactured with ROHS has a limited life. It's all relative.

Not to thred-jack, but the Homeworx boxes are sensitive to voltage spikes, and will lose their minds occasionally...reset, re enter your recordings, and start over. The box isn't dead.

Re Scanning my Tivo box to try to get the re packed 4.1 and 4.2 to slot properly.

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post #19124 of 20575 Old 04-17-2018, 07:13 PM
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Not to thred-jack, but the Homeworx boxes are sensitive to voltage spikes, and will lose their minds occasionally...reset, re enter your recordings, and start over. The box isn't dead.
The box will not reboot. It's dead just like the last one. Well known documented problem. Different than just being locked up. Not my first rodeo podner.
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post #19125 of 20575 Old 04-17-2018, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post
Have you done a rescan on your television set?

If not, you must!
Oops, I hadn't. Thank you! Was I correct about the antenna move causing this?

Unrelated question--
Is there some way I could get Channel 21, WLIW? I lost it when everything went digital.

Last edited by foxycat; 04-17-2018 at 08:32 PM.
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post #19126 of 20575 Old 04-17-2018, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by foxycat View Post
Oops, I hadn't. Thank you! Was I correct about the antenna move causing this?

Unrelated question--
Is there some way I could get Channel 21, WLIW? I lost it when everything went digital.
Channel 9 has not only moved, the station also changed its frequency.

Channel 11 hasn't changed its location nor frequency - there should be no change in your reception of this station.

Are you receiving WNBC OK?

Rescan is necessary for this station too - it's now transmitting only from 1WTC and on a different frequency.
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post #19127 of 20575 Old 04-17-2018, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post
Channel 9 has not only moved, the station also changed its frequency.

Channel 11 hasn't changed its location nor frequency - there should be no change in your reception of this station.

Are you receiving WNBC OK?

Rescan is necessary for this station too - it's now transmitting only from 1WTC and on a different frequency.
WNBC is fine.
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post #19128 of 20575 Old 04-18-2018, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post
Are you receiving WNBC OK?

Rescan is necessary for this station too - it's now transmitting only from 1WTC and on a different frequency.
Until this move I've been picking up NBC 4.1 with no problem (in central NJ) for 15 years. Since the move it's been pretty bad. All my MythTV recordings from last night are really pixelated and marked as damaged. Totally sucks. I'm going to experiment with moving my antenna a little but I'm not too hopeful. It still mostly seems like it's the signal error quality frequently dropping from 100 to 0.
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post #19129 of 20575 Old 04-18-2018, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by tld View Post
Until this move I've been picking up NBC 4.1 with no problem (in central NJ) for 15 years. Since the move it's been pretty bad. All my MythTV recordings from last night are really pixelated and marked as damaged. Totally sucks. I'm going to experiment with moving my antenna a little but I'm not too hopeful. It still mostly seems like it's the signal error quality frequently dropping from 100 to 0.
Count me as in the same boat as you are in. Only I tried adjusting my antenna and could not get any improvement in signal. It looks like all the hype about how broadcasting from 1WTC was going to improved reception was all a myth for at least some of us! Not sure if I will be able to ever get NBC back!
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post #19130 of 20575 Old 04-18-2018, 10:13 AM
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They say ATSC 3.0 will fix reception issues but with all of the constant delays and not one even new flagship TV or DVR even having a 3.0 tuner stupid 5 year rule once a station goes 3.0 I think ATSC 5.0 will be out in S.Korea and once again we will be out of date with digital TV.

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post #19131 of 20575 Old 04-18-2018, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post
Channel 9 has not only moved, the station also changed its frequency.
9 will be adding WRNN in the next couple of weeks under a channel share agreement
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post #19132 of 20575 Old 04-18-2018, 11:16 AM
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9 will be adding WRNN in the next couple of weeks under a channel share agreement
That is another station where reception went bad as soon as they moved to 1WTC. The only station I can receive decently that moved to 1WTC is CBS 2.1.

Just want to edit that I should have also said the the signal for 2.1 while decent at 1WTC signal strength did drop from 88 to 78. That is a lot!

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post #19133 of 20575 Old 04-18-2018, 01:17 PM
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9 will be adding WRNN in the next couple of weeks under a channel share agreement
Now I see why WNYW HD did not share its channel with WWOR.

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post #19134 of 20575 Old 04-18-2018, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
Count me as in the same boat as you are in. Only I tried adjusting my antenna and could not get any improvement in signal. It looks like all the hype about how broadcasting from 1WTC was going to improved reception was all a myth for at least some of us! Not sure if I will be able to ever get NBC back!
While I'm very skeptical I just found something interesting:

I have several HDHomeRun tuners and one old pcHDTV HD-5500 PCI tuner. Just before I tried using the HD-5500 in MythTV to watch live TV. I actually thought it had finally died altogether because it couldn't even get a lock on the station. Turns out it was trying to tune WNBC 4.1 and the reception was really that bad. Interestingly I tried pointing my antenna a little north of where I had it and at least for now I have the SS at about 93-95 and it seems to be behaving:
Code:
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19336928 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19595616 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19336928 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
ch=8vsb:605000000 lock=8vsb ss=94 snq=90 seq=100 bps=19401600 pps=0
I'll see if that continues...wish I was more hopeful.

Tom
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post #19135 of 20575 Old 04-19-2018, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctveng View Post
9 will be adding WRNN in the next couple of weeks under a channel share agreement
Why do only 5 & 9 xmit an SD subchannel feed, isn't it a wast of bandwidth? Any new or old TV or box capable of decoding/ receiving the SD subchannel will be able to decode/display display the main channel anyway ....
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post #19136 of 20575 Old 04-19-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MeatChicken View Post
Why do only 5 & 9 xmit an SD subchannel feed, isn't it a wast of bandwidth? Any new or old TV or box capable of decoding/ receiving the SD subchannel will be able to decode/display display the main channel anyway ....
Because the people making those decisions are clueless about OTA! They never used an antenna and live in a bubble!
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post #19137 of 20575 Old 04-19-2018, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctveng View Post
9 will be adding WRNN in the next couple of weeks under a channel share agreement
That should improve the bitrates across the WWOR-TV subchannel suite

Which is one of my points with the WNBC debate... technology advances should be IMPROVING AQ & PQ, not worsening them. If, at the end of the repack, most of these channel shares look and sound like crap, where do the VIEWERs (apparently disinterested freeloading parties) stand to benefit? Must they ultimately subscribe to a Pay-TV service to realize full bitrates? These channel shares might look great on a mobile device, monitor, tablet, or maximum-sized 26" television, but beyond those devices????

And to Reddice: You're right. Euro-Asia and other European nations are already circling our wagons with respect to improved technology. And if you want a hint as to how this will go, look back at the late 20th century. Betamax vs. VHS. Which format had the better quality and which format ultimately succeeded in the United States marketplace?
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post #19138 of 20575 Old 04-19-2018, 02:11 PM
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As a Betamax owner I totally agree. There probably were good reasons for Betamax to fail and ultimately VHS died too!

DVDs were better than either I have to admit.

I just hope when we look back we will all agree that the repack and ATSC 3.0 have improved OTA reception and viewing. So far we are a long way from knowing. So far things have gone south for me.
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post #19139 of 20575 Old 04-19-2018, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
As a Betamax owner I totally agree. There probably were good reasons for Betamax to fail and ultimately VHS died too!

DVDs were better than either I have to admit.

I just hope when we look back we will all agree that the repack and ATSC 3.0 have improved OTA reception and viewing. So far we are a long way from knowing. So far things have gone south for me.
How has or will the repack improve OTA reception?


ATSC 3.0 has great promise for OTA, but the repack????
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post #19140 of 20575 Old 04-19-2018, 09:20 PM
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Hey SnellKrell,
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post
How has or will the repack improve OTA reception?


ATSC 3.0 has great promise for OTA, but the repack????
The repack does not enhance or improve OTA television reception, rather it allows for greater spectrum efficiency. The reclaimed spectrum is crucial in today's mobile-driven environment. Make no mistake: Our nation - and the entire world - is not and will not be turning away from their mobile devices and the instantaneous information-on-demand they provide. And that 3G, 4G, LTE, and eventually 5G data is not comprised exclusively of silly social media games. Some mobile providers even include sponsored-streaming audio and/or video services that don't count against the subscribers' data consumption, thus saving the cost of an additional subscription service.

ATSC 3.0, if implemented properly, will not only deliver new and exciting services such as 4K, file sharing/transmission, and user-targeted advertising, but will also enable additional streams per channel without the crummy artifacts we've grown accustomed to with ATSC 1.0. I do have great concerns over encryption, watermarks, and even privacy issues, but those will have to be dealt with both legislatively and through standards voluntarily implemented by the broadcast industry.

I honestly believe the ATSC 3.0 standard should be fast-tracked with encouragement from both Congress and the FCC. Without the implementation of that new standard, with respect to television broadcasting, the repack will only serve to decimate the existing broadcast TV platform by way of degrading the final product quality, sacrificing in limited instances some of our nation's heritage autonomous signals, and place the federal government once again into the position of picking winners and losers, with broadcast TV falling squarely among the latter.
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