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post #19351 of 20119 Old 07-23-2018, 04:33 PM
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Please, no more sub channels! The PQ is being degraded enough.
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post #19352 of 20119 Old 07-23-2018, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post
I'm not in NY so I'm just speculating. The one press release said that in LA it will move stations. Whether that is CBS's KCAL or Weigel's KAZA is not known. Chicago it will move to a Weigel owned station. I'm sure the reason for the change is due to instant cable coverage of the new diginet.

I wish CBS would create a -3 for Decades. I'm in Minneapolis which is losing Decades too (WCCO-DT2) and unlike most of the CBS O&O markets, Minneapolis has no sister station for it to go to. But it took forever for CBS to add a subchannel to their O&O stations (when they added Decades) so they may be hesitant to add a 2nd subchannel.
I wish CBS would do something to bring WLNY's signal further west. I also wonder why they keep CBSN as a streaming service since it seems perfect for local stations to insert local news updates during the breaks.

Also noticed that the NY Daily News dropped their Sunday TV listings booklet. I figured they were about to do that as they offered discounted "TV Weekly" magazine subscriptions. Today they announced huge staff cutbacks.
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post #19353 of 20119 Old 07-23-2018, 10:30 PM
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Hey dturturro,
Quote:
Originally Posted by dturturro View Post
Please, no more sub channels! The PQ is being degraded enough.
Generally I'm kind of inclined to agree with you. I think the present inventory is at a saturation risk with too many diginets competing for the same ever-upward aging demographic ad buys. However, until WLNY-TV Riverhead lights up a repeater or moves its antenna further west to provide reliable coverage to New Jersey while not sacrificing one household in Riverhead, NY., the only logical way to preserve the NYC area audience for this most-treasured diginet which by its programming preserves and promotes the Golden Age of Television, DECADES, is to add another subchannel over WCBS-TV New York. Or, it's entirely possible that WJLP Middletown Township or another full-power NYC area television station will pick up where CBS indicates they want to leave off and continue the diginet on their signal.

Ultimately, ATSC 3.0 will hopefully solve these bitrate compression issues, which is why broadcasters and the FCC should expedite the rollout process and usher ATSC 3.0 into the mainstream as soon as possible. No logical reason we should watch 3rd-world Television while living in a 1st-world Nation.
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post #19354 of 20119 Old 07-24-2018, 05:09 AM
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Guys, this is a bit off topic, but how big of an audience does "Golden Age TV" draw? I am an early baby boomer and I do not know anyone that sits around and watches reruns of programs that are 20 to 40 years old. Also, all of this content is from the analog era so can't it be handled in SD to cut down on its bit rate demands.


I can also tell you that when it comes to ATSC 3.0 the average Joe (i.e. cable or satellite TV ) is just getting over that 3rd-world TV saying when he had to switch from analog to digital (new TV's and DVR's) and does not want to hear it again.

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post #19355 of 20119 Old 07-24-2018, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC View Post
I wish CBS would do something to bring WLNY's signal further west.

I am sure they had a reason not to purchase the repeaters back in 2012ish or so... I used to get WLNY on 45-1.
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post #19356 of 20119 Old 07-24-2018, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ALP View Post
Guys, this is a bit off topic, but how big of an audience does "Golden Age TV" draw? I am an early baby boomer and I do not know anyone that sits around and watches reruns of programs that are 20 to 40 years old. Also, all of this content is from the analog era so can't it be handled in SD to cut down on its bit rate demands.


I can also tell you that when it comes to ATSC 3.0 the average Joe (i.e. cable or satellite TV ) is just getting over that 3rd-world TV saying when he had to switch from analog to digital (new TV's and DVR's) and does not want to hear it again.

I may have confused things in my post above. If so it is my bad. I was doing some online research and apparently today's TV programs ( The Sopranos, Game of Thrones, etc.) are called the "Golden Age" or the "New Golden Age" of TV by many critics. There is even concern that with Netflix now releasing high quality dramas there is too much great programming out there and no one can watch it all. Obviously, this is not what I meant when I said "Golden Age". I meant the kind of reruns that are on Decades TV. How big is that audience?


Also, I found out that it is already broadcast as SDTV, again, my bad.

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post #19357 of 20119 Old 07-24-2018, 11:30 AM
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Hey dstoffa,
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstoffa View Post
I am sure they had a reason not to purchase the repeaters back in 2012ish or so... I used to get WLNY on 45-1.
Trip in VA may have better insight on this, but I suspect the reason CBS was disinterested in the translators/repeaters back when they purchased WLNY-TV Riverhead is they were licensed for frequencies now deemed out-of-core and would likely be forced off the air post-repack. Let's be honest here: Every major broadcast corporation knew how the auction would turn out and some (especially NBCUniversal and Univision) profited probably beyond their wildest dreams. As to translators for WLNY-TV, technically it might be easier to start from scratch once the dust settles and attempt to light up a translator or a subchannel when the final channel lineup comes into better focus.
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post #19358 of 20119 Old 07-24-2018, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALP View Post
Guys, this is a bit off topic, but how big of an audience does "Golden Age TV" draw? I am an early baby boomer and I do not know anyone that sits around and watches reruns of programs that are 20 to 40 years old.

You just met one. Now that we are in the summer doldrums, I tend to watch more programming on the "classic TV" digi-nets. As a game show fan, I'll watch Buzzr at times. Sunday nights I might tune into Antenna TV for a Carson show episode from 1972-1980. When Get TV had Merv Griffin shows from the 1960's, I would check them out at times. Much of this old stuff is better than the "reality" crap that floods today's television schedule. Then again, I am fond of reading and watching shows about television's history both in front of and behind the camera. To that point, I just saw the Mister Rogers documentary a short while ago. It was very good.


By the way, I'm 52 years old. The advertisers on the major networks don't care about me anyway.
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post #19359 of 20119 Old 07-24-2018, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALP View Post
Guys, this is a bit off topic, but how big of an audience does "Golden Age TV" draw? I am an early baby boomer and I do not know anyone that sits around and watches reruns of programs that are 20 to 40 years old. Also, all of this content is from the analog era so can't it be handled in SD to cut down on its bit rate demands.
Most of these diginets do not subscribe to Neilson ratings as that is not a cost-effective measure to gauge the success of this type of programming. In fact, RetroTV had previously declared bankruptcy. So as is evident, a shoestring budget is essential for the non-essentials. The numbers that matter most are direct response revenue attributed to the specific phone numbers and websites found on the Per-Inquiry spots customarily airing on these stations. The most successful diginets, like Me-TV, have landed larger advertising accounts that don't depend entirely on the direct response model.

Here is a very interesting April 2015 article that delves into the topic, courtesy of the LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...401-story.html

In response to the second part of your question: Most diginets air over 480i SD subchannels, some of which are fixed 4:3 aspect-ratio while others are widescreen. Me-TV is one of the unique diginets in that it has many 480i affiliates with a few interspersed that are considered High Definition by airing on a 720p stream, such as WJLP Middletown Township, KHTV-CD Los Angeles, and KJWP Wilmington, among many others. Live Well, the zombie diginet, is unique in that seven out of eight of its ABC O&O affiliates assign it a 720p stream with Chicago being the lone exception as that station is involved in a channel-sharing situation with the former WXFT Chicago.

However, just because a diginet like DECADES can and does air on a 480i-widescreen stream doesn't mean the program quality isn't significantly deteriorated by doing so. The main problem I have with most of these diginets, aside from the saturation concerns I addressed earlier, is they are so starved for spectrum that the quality is oftentimes comparable to a YouTube video encoded at 240p. When I've tuned to these channels on a 60" screen with friends who are in their 30s, one of the first things they remark is "That's not High Definition." Damn straight it isn't! And if the PQ is inferior to a typical YouTube video encoded at 480p, you better believe most young eyes and the viewers who own them will skip over the station without even taking a sample. And if I ever have an audience with Andrew Thorburn of the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) or any member of their leadership team, this is exactly what I would tell them, and why implementing ATSC 3.0 is absolutely essential for the broadcast industry.
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post #19360 of 20119 Old 07-25-2018, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giacomo Siffredi View Post
Trip in VA may have better insight on this, but I suspect the reason CBS was disinterested in the translators/repeaters back when they purchased WLNY-TV Riverhead is they were licensed for frequencies now deemed out-of-core and would likely be forced off the air post-repack. Let's be honest here: Every major broadcast corporation knew how the auction would turn out and some (especially NBCUniversal and Univision) profited probably beyond their wildest dreams. As to translators for WLNY-TV, technically it might be easier to start from scratch once the dust settles and attempt to light up a translator or a subchannel when the final channel lineup comes into better focus.
I'm actually not clear on why CBS didn't buy WMUN-CD along with WLNY. A skeptical part of me says they wanted WLNY for cable carriage (10/55) but I'm not so sure that's it, given how much value CBS placed on its stations in the auction (it didn't sell them). I wonder if the spectrum speculators simply offered more money for WMUN-CD than CBS was willing to pay.

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post #19361 of 20119 Old 07-30-2018, 09:57 AM
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Reception of WNET

Reception of ch 13 has been really poor for several days, only 50% signal or less, all other stations are fine. Anyone else having issues with WNET, 13.1 and/or 13.2 -- or any idea what is happening? Thanks
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post #19363 of 20119 Old 07-30-2018, 10:42 AM
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post #19364 of 20119 Old 07-30-2018, 11:03 AM
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Moved to NYC OTA thread.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #19365 of 20119 Old 07-31-2018, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC View Post
Reception of ch 13 has been really poor for several days, only 50% signal or less, all other stations are fine. Anyone else having issues with WNET, 13.1 and/or 13.2 -- or any idea what is happening? Thanks

I checked in the evening and all is fine at my location. WNET has been around 90% signal strength and 100% quality since the move to 1WTC. No observed changes in signal so far.


On the other hand the other VHF broadcasters 7.1 and 11.1 have been bad and unwatchable for several months now.
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post #19366 of 20119 Old 07-31-2018, 05:23 AM
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New York, NY - OTA

What’s your location ?
UWS , 80’s here
7 & 11 comes in strong with indoor antenna


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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post #19367 of 20119 Old 07-31-2018, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
I checked in the evening and all is fine at my location. WNET has been around 90% signal strength and 100% quality since the move to 1WTC. No observed changes in signal so far.


On the other hand the other VHF broadcasters 7.1 and 11.1 have been bad and unwatchable for several months now.
I, too, for several months haven't been able to receive WABC and WPIX.

I've had enough trouble with stations moving to 1WTC - WNET has been almost a total
loss. The only way to receive 13 has been rabbit ears on a window sill, and with WWOR,
there's only one sweet-spot using my Silver Sensor, and that diminished the reception of
other stations.

With the loss of 7 and 11, both of which are still transmitting from ESB, wonder if the
stations have had to cut power to allow work on the mast????

Haven't noticed any FCC filings about long-term power cuts.

OTA reception for the Upper East Side has become a chore!

Had hoped all the new technology would have made things better, but that hasn't been
the case.

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #19368 of 20119 Old 07-31-2018, 05:40 AM
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SnellKrell,


For me at my location signal strength is way down for all the stations that moved from when they were at the ESB. However strangely enough signal quality has been mostly rock solid at 100%. in some cases better than when at the ESB. Go figure.


Also not having good antenna pointing info I have not tried to reposition my out door antennas.
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post #19369 of 20119 Old 07-31-2018, 07:42 AM
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Curious, how are those posting signal strength and "quality" for specific channels getting that information? Is it specific to any particular piece of hardware, like the TV or the antenna, or some other external box?

Internet Connection/Roku Streaming Stick+
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post #19370 of 20119 Old 07-31-2018, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post
Curious, how are those posting signal strength and "quality" for specific channels getting that information? Is it specific to any particular piece of hardware, like the TV or the antenna, or some other external box?
On my LG set, when I choose "Manual Tuning" - I can select a specific channel number (RF)
and there are two bar graphs - "Signal Strength" and "Signal Quality."

It will be pretty much the same for other set manufacturers.
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post #19371 of 20119 Old 07-31-2018, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post
Curious, how are those posting signal strength and "quality" for specific channels getting that information? Is it specific to any particular piece of hardware, like the TV or the antenna, or some other external box?

None of my TV's (Sony, Sharp and Samsung) provide signal quality so I get the info from my Channel Master DVR+.
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post #19372 of 20119 Old 07-31-2018, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpiony View Post
What’s your location ?
UWS , 80’s here
7 & 11 comes in strong with indoor antenna


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm about 30 plus miles west northwest of the NY transmitters in the hills of Morris County NJ.
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post #19373 of 20119 Old 07-31-2018, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
I checked in the evening and all is fine at my location. WNET has been around 90% signal strength and 100% quality since the move to 1WTC. No observed changes in signal so far.


On the other hand the other VHF broadcasters 7.1 and 11.1 have been bad and unwatchable for several months now.
Thanks. For me in the north east Bronx, 7 and 11 are fine and come in at 82% and 87% respectively. WNET 13 is at 50% or less and has frequent break ups.

I recall that the major stations (2 through 13) all used to come in at 90% or better.
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post #19374 of 20119 Old 08-01-2018, 09:30 AM
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UWS 60s 5th floor south-facing (no line-of-sight to WTC) with Cable Cutter large antenna

2, 4, 5, 7, 9 & 11 all come in strongly unless an airplane or helicopter is passing overhead.

I've got nothing on 13 since the move to WTC.
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post #19375 of 20119 Old 08-06-2018, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post
Weren't some having issues with 5.1 (fox)? Just watched the World Cup Final, no glitches at all, reception fine (UWS, flat antenna).
Your reception quality may change. WNYW is moving to WTC this week.
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post #19376 of 20119 Old 08-06-2018, 11:23 AM
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I have a spare HDHR that I would love to donate to a NYC area resident for the purposes of the Rabbit Ears Live Band Scan.

Requirements:

1) Be within 30 miles of 1WTC or have LOS from a hill if not as close.
2) A good outdoor or attic VHF/UHF antenna system aimed towards 1WTC. (no rotor)
3) A computer (laptop, netbook, Raspberry Pi, etc) to run the band scanner software. The computer needs to run 24/7, but doesn't need to be powerful at all. An old netbook is more than sufficient.
4) 24/7 Internet access for the computer.
5) The HDHR needs an Ethernet connection to the same network as the computer.
6) RF input from the antenna system noted in #2 . Ok to split with your other TVs, but just avoid PIMs in the wrong place.
7) HDHR Tuner (I will ship to you at my cost).

More info about the bandscan is here:

https://www.rabbitears.info/static.p..._live_bandscan
https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/many_tu...402468/tuner1/

Please send me a PM if interested. I need a few days to get the power cord as I lost the one I had. The HDHR is the one I had when my parents lived in Mystic, CT.

Thanks!

Mike

Last edited by Falcon_77; 08-06-2018 at 11:40 AM.
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post #19377 of 20119 Old 08-06-2018, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctveng View Post
Your reception quality may change. WNYW is moving to WTC this week.

Is this move going to require another rescan? Is this the last of the major broadcast channels to move to 1WTC from the ESB?

Tony Plachy
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post #19378 of 20119 Old 08-06-2018, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALP View Post
Is this move going to require another rescan? Is this the last of the major broadcast channels to move to 1WTC from the ESB?
No re scan needed for this move - the station will continue to use RF Channel 44
until around a year from now when it will become Channel 27.
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post #19379 of 20119 Old 08-07-2018, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post
I have a spare HDHR that I would love to donate to a NYC area resident for the purposes of the Rabbit Ears Live Band Scan.

Requirements:

1) Be within 30 miles of 1WTC or have LOS from a hill if not as close.
2) A good outdoor or attic VHF/UHF antenna system aimed towards 1WTC. (no rotor)
3) A computer (laptop, netbook, Raspberry Pi, etc) to run the band scanner software. The computer needs to run 24/7, but doesn't need to be powerful at all. An old netbook is more than sufficient.
4) 24/7 Internet access for the computer.
5) The HDHR needs an Ethernet connection to the same network as the computer.
6) RF input from the antenna system noted in #2 . Ok to split with your other TVs, but just avoid PIMs in the wrong place.
7) HDHR Tuner (I will ship to you at my cost).

More info about the bandscan is here:

https://www.rabbitears.info/static.p..._live_bandscan
https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/many_tu...402468/tuner1/

Please send me a PM if interested. I need a few days to get the power cord as I lost the one I had. The HDHR is the one I had when my parents lived in Mystic, CT.

Thanks!

Mike

I think this is already in place for NYC by rabbitears at his aunts.
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post #19380 of 20119 Old 08-07-2018, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
I think this is already in place for NYC by rabbitears at his aunts.

It's down until further notice, thus Mike's offer.



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