New York, NY - OTA - Page 662 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 531Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #19831 of 20453 Old 01-01-2019, 11:50 PM
ALP
Senior Member
 
ALP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NY
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post
Wonder if and when WCBS and WPXN will resume maximum authorized power????

Antenna work was to have been completed on the 1WTC mast by the end of last month.

With the power reductions, WCBS has been running at 64% of max, and WPXN at 60%.

Happy Holidays to all!

SnellKrell

Ditto, I would also like to see them back to full power.

Tony Plachy
ALP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19832 of 20453 Old 01-02-2019, 06:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
speedlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New York, about 40 miles north of "New York"
Posts: 566
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 56
channel 50

The only station I have issues with is 11, (RF 11) but don't really care as there isn't much I watch on it.

Channel 50, WNJN, is slightly off axis for my antenna, and Motorweek is broadcast, which isn't on WNET 13. Sometimes my Tivo gets it, other times not....depending on conditions....

Any idea what the transmitter situation is ? Are they moving to a WTC location eventually ? Motorweek is corny but there are a few tidbits in each episode....

In Vienna we sit, in late night cafe. Straight Connection, on T.E.E.
speedlaw is offline  
post #19833 of 20453 Old 01-02-2019, 06:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SnellKrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Upper East Side - Manhattan
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedlaw View Post
The only station I have issues with is 11, (RF 11) but don't really care as there isn't much I watch on it.

Channel 50, WNJN, is slightly off axis for my antenna, and Motorweek is broadcast, which isn't on WNET 13. Sometimes my Tivo gets it, other times not....depending on conditions....

Any idea what the transmitter situation is ? Are they moving to a WTC location eventually ? Motorweek is corny but there are a few tidbits in each episode....
Little chance of WNJN making any changes - the state sold off its Montclair frequency and the station no longer
transmits from its previous location.

WPIX continues to be up for sale. The current owner, Tribune has had no interest in moving to 1WTC. Who knows
what the next owner may want to do????

So, for the moment, both stations are staying put.
SnellKrell is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19834 of 20453 Old 01-02-2019, 08:48 PM
Senior Member
 
Digiti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Queens N.Y. U.S.A.
Posts: 304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALP View Post
Wow, My wife noticed this on the Rookie as well, she now refuses to watch it anymore. A blown speaker is exactly what it sounds like and we to do not find it on any other program. In general I am not happy with the audio on most channels (with the exception of PBS). I think they all use a lot of compression to try to win the loudness wars.
I have noticed this as well on the Rookie and American Housewife which are unlistenable because of the distortion.I no longer watch these show because of this.
Digiti is offline  
post #19835 of 20453 Old 01-03-2019, 06:15 AM
ALP
Senior Member
 
ALP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NY
Posts: 342
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post
Little chance of WNJN making any changes - the state sold off its Montclair frequency and the station no longer
transmits from its previous location.

WPIX continues to be up for sale. The current owner, Tribune has had no interest in moving to 1WTC. Who knows
what the next owner may want to do????

So, for the moment, both stations are staying put.

This is a bit off topic, however, WPIX is The CW network which I believe is a partnership between CBS and Warner Brothers. Is The CW still owned by CBS and WB? Any idea how much a network like The CW sells for?

Tony Plachy
ALP is offline  
post #19836 of 20453 Old 01-05-2019, 03:00 PM
Member
 
mets18's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiti View Post
I have noticed this as well on the Rookie and American Housewife which are unlistenable because of the distortion.I no longer watch these show because of this.
Wow, very noticeable on the left rear channel on the football game. How does no one at ABC notice this?
mets18 is offline  
post #19837 of 20453 Old 01-05-2019, 07:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Digiti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Queens N.Y. U.S.A.
Posts: 304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by mets18 View Post
Wow, very noticeable on the left rear channel on the football game. How does no one at ABC notice this?
The .mp3 file provided in post #19812 is exactly what I hear on ABC.
Digiti is offline  
post #19838 of 20453 Old 01-11-2019, 02:18 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 1
All Arts is coming to WLIW 21.4 on January 28th. Right now they are running a demo reel of all the different content that will be showcased (see the attached image)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	27CF7EAD-0CA7-4003-AB60-2B39751F3ED3_1547245039418.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	112.3 KB
ID:	2509440  
LIantenna585 is offline  
post #19839 of 20453 Old 01-11-2019, 07:20 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Also, WMBC now has the audio of WWGB on 63.11 and WBTK audio on 63.12.
LIantenna585 is offline  
post #19840 of 20453 Old 01-12-2019, 06:34 PM
NYC
Member
 
NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIantenna585 View Post
All Arts is coming to WLIW 21.4 on January 28th. Right now they are running a demo reel of all the different content that will be showcased (see the attached image)
Any idea if All Arts will launch on WNDT and/or WMBQ? Will WorldView remain on one, or will another network launch? Thanks for any details!

Also, those two audio subchannels of WMBC on 63.11 and 63.12 have poor quality audio, but since neither are in English, makes no difference.
NYC is offline  
post #19841 of 20453 Old 01-23-2019, 05:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SnellKrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Upper East Side - Manhattan
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Just came across a disturbing Waiver filed before the FCC on behalf of WCBS.

The background is that the station, which was authorized to have an ERP of 385kW
from 1WTC on Channel 33, had to reduce power down to 245kW to allow Durst to
work on mast installations.

This reduction was to have ended by the end of this past November.

Just before Christmas, on the Forum, I had wondered if both WCBS and WPXN had
come back to full power????

The new Waiver filed by WCBS, requests a 6 month extension to continue its operation
at the lower power.

Again, this was due to Durst's work on the mast!

I haven't seen any filing from any other station to continue transmission at reduced power.
I can only assume that if WCBS can't go back to full power, other stations share this problem.

The above brings up some questions -

First, the 6 month extension takes us well into the Testing period for Phase 4 stations to
migrate to new frequencies. By August 2nd, WCBS is to move to Channel 36 putting out
548kW.

Will we ever see Channel 33 at full power?

Will WCBS on its new Channel 36 be able to use its authorized 548kW or will Durst continue
to be inept and force stations to run at reduced power???

The next questions have to do with Durst -

How does this company continue to stay in the broadcast business???

NBC's installation at 1WTC was to have a directional antenna on the Lower UHF Antenna.
Durst still hasn't fulfilled that! WNJU/WNBC transmit from the Upper Antenna using a
a non-directional pattern.

Fox had contracted for WNYW to use the Upper UHF Antenna. Durst reneged! The station
has been relegated to the Lower UHF section.

WCBS and WPXN had full expectations that once they moved to 1WTC that they would be
able to transmit at their FCC authorized power. Yet to be realized!

It has taken Durst to make the old Empire State facilities look like state-of-the-art!

Sign me - "Disgusted!"
Brian in CT likes this.
SnellKrell is offline  
post #19842 of 20453 Old 01-23-2019, 11:47 AM
Senior Member
 
trailblazer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Jackson, NJ
Posts: 345
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellKrell View Post
Just came across a disturbing Waiver filed before the FCC on behalf of WCBS.

The background is that the station, which was authorized to have an ERP of 385kW
from 1WTC on Channel 33, had to reduce power down to 245kW to allow Durst to
work on mast installations.

This reduction was to have ended by the end of this past November.

Just before Christmas, on the Forum, I had wondered if both WCBS and WPXN had
come back to full power????

The new Waiver filed by WCBS, requests a 6 month extension to continue its operation
at the lower power.




Again, this was due to Durst's work on the mast!

I haven't seen any filing from any other station to continue transmission at reduced power.
I can only assume that if WCBS can't go back to full power, other stations share this problem.

The above brings up some questions -

First, the 6 month extension takes us well into the Testing period for Phase 4 stations to
migrate to new frequencies. By August 2nd, WCBS is to move to Channel 36 putting out
548kW.

Will we ever see Channel 33 at full power?

Will WCBS on its new Channel 36 be able to use its authorized 548kW or will Durst continue
to be inept and force stations to run at reduced power???

The next questions have to do with Durst -

How does this company continue to stay in the broadcast business???

NBC's installation at 1WTC was to have a directional antenna on the Lower UHF Antenna.
Durst still hasn't fulfilled that! WNJU/WNBC transmit from the Upper Antenna using a
a non-directional pattern.

Fox had contracted for WNYW to use the Upper UHF Antenna. Durst reneged! The station
has been relegated to the Lower UHF section.

WCBS and WPXN had full expectations that once they moved to 1WTC that they would be
able to transmit at their FCC authorized power. Yet to be realized!

It has taken Durst to make the old Empire State facilities look like state-of-the-art!

Sign me - "Disgusted!"



I have given up with trying to receive signals off WTC since I live in Central NJ between NY & Philly, I just directed my roof antenna to Philly and get rock solid signals except for ABC on channel 6 since I have a high VHF/UHF antenna. Since the move to WTC, I have issues with receiving WCBS, WNBC, WYNY continously without breakup. When they where on the ESB I had no such issues. Channels on the ESB like WABC, WPIX etc. I have no issues, just the ones on the WTC with the exeption of channel 9 which for some reason comes in clearly without any issues.


Too bad that all the stations on WTC cannot just move back to the ESB till Durst can straighten out the mess they caused for the stations as well as for those trying to receive the signals from the WTC tower.
trailblazer is offline  
post #19843 of 20453 Old 01-24-2019, 05:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
LenL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Randolph, NJ, 725' above sea level, 30 miles west of ESB
Posts: 2,045
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 447 Post(s)
Liked: 318
I second your critique. Reception for me was better when they were at the ESB. Unfortunately there is NO ONE who can take up our case and be an advocate for us OTA viewers.


So far OTA is being killed in the NYC market.
LenL is offline  
post #19844 of 20453 Old 01-24-2019, 09:27 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

So far OTA is being killed in the NYC market.
The BIGGEST market, and we get the worst treatment. What a joke. Big time $$$ going into pockets, and not the tech.

Sony A1E OLED 4K Ultra H


FS Gen2 Nvidia shield TV 2017 version
EF9500 is offline  
post #19845 of 20453 Old 01-24-2019, 10:28 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 14
It's all about location. I'm 10 miles due west of NYC and I have no problems with OTA reception using a small outdoor antenna. I can even pull in the more distant stations like WLNY and WLIW. I often get pixelation on WNET when it rains, but other than that I have no complaints.
ansky212 is offline  
post #19846 of 20453 Old 01-24-2019, 01:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MeatChicken's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NNJ
Posts: 1,684
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 262 Post(s)
Liked: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by EF9500 View Post
The BIGGEST market, and we get the worst treatment. What a joke. Big time $$$ going into pockets, and not the tech.
..... Also, how about the fact that here, largest city in the USA, on the coast, has had their NOAA weather station frequency / alert system off the air for almost 2 years, with still no date yet to bring it back online??
Brian in CT likes this.
MeatChicken is offline  
post #19847 of 20453 Old 01-24-2019, 05:58 PM
Member
 
Brian in CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Fairfield, Conn.
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ansky212 View Post
It's all about location. I'm 10 miles due west of NYC and I have no problems with OTA reception using a small outdoor antenna.
Fine, but if trailblazer is in Jackson Township (Ocean County), he should be getting the Philadelphia and New York City stations equally strong with a good rooftop antenna. He is technically in the NYC DMA, and he says he gets channels 7, 9 and 11 fine. Hopefully, the WTC situation will be fixed by August.

As for me, I am getting good reception at close to 50 miles from the WTC. Then again, I am on a hill.
Brian in CT is offline  
post #19848 of 20453 Old 01-25-2019, 12:31 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in CT View Post
Fine, but if trailblazer is in Jackson Township (Ocean County), he should be getting the Philadelphia and New York City stations equally strong with a good rooftop antenna. He is technically in the NYC DMA, and he says he gets channels 7, 9 and 11 fine. Hopefully, the WTC situation will be fixed by August.

As for me, I am getting good reception at close to 50 miles from the WTC. Then again, I am on a hill.
Jackson, NJ is a fringe area as far as OTA reception. There is no regulation that says OTA must cover the entire geographic area of a DMA. Hopefully if they are able to increase power it will help him out.
ansky212 is offline  
post #19849 of 20453 Old 01-25-2019, 04:38 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Cable cos have ota on their back pocket, you know I`m right amigo.
Useeme1234 is online now  
post #19850 of 20453 Old 01-26-2019, 04:39 PM
Member
 
Brian in CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Fairfield, Conn.
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ansky212 View Post
Jackson, NJ is a fringe area as far as OTA reception. There is no regulation that says OTA must cover the entire geographic area of a DMA.
True on the second point, but trailblazer is only 40-45 miles from the WTC. With no terrain issues, he should be able to receive all the full power TV stations transmitting from there if they were allowed to transmit at full power. The Philadelphia stations he gets now are a little further away. Like I said before, hope the WTC situation gets fixed by August.
Brian in CT is offline  
post #19851 of 20453 Old 01-27-2019, 04:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked: 361
Everyone with these issues, and being close is strange. I am 65 miles out, on LI. I get 2,4,5,7,9,11,25,31 with no breakups, all at about 80%signal. 13 though is at about 40, since the power got turned down. The move to WTC has actually helped me.

Sony A1E OLED 4K Ultra H


FS Gen2 Nvidia shield TV 2017 version
EF9500 is offline  
post #19852 of 20453 Old 01-27-2019, 05:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SnellKrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Upper East Side - Manhattan
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked: 70
The additional height afforded by 1WTC hinders those viewers closer to the transmission point.

Television signals travel on a straight line unlike AM radio which follows the curvature of the Earth.
SnellKrell is offline  
post #19853 of 20453 Old 01-27-2019, 05:47 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Sorry to bring up a different subject here, but is Light TV gone from WNYW? I rescanned last night and found that even with a strong signal from WNYW, there was no 5-4 subchannel. (Also, I think the PSIP on 5-2 changed from “Movies!” to “MOVIES!”)
LIantenna585 is offline  
post #19854 of 20453 Old 01-27-2019, 05:57 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIantenna585 View Post
Sorry to bring up a different subject here, but is Light TV gone from WNYW? I rescanned last night and found that even with a strong signal from WNYW, there was no 5-4 subchannel. (Also, I think the PSIP on 5-2 changed from “Movies!” to “MOVIES!”)
Something strange is going on. I also lost 9-3 (Buzzer) and 9-4 (Heroes & Icons). It happened right at midnight last night. When I tune to those channels I just get a blank screen and no audio.
ansky212 is offline  
post #19855 of 20453 Old 01-27-2019, 12:37 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Ef9500 where exactly on long island are you residing , also whats your setup, I long island is kind of hilly on northern part, south is pretty much flat as pancake.
Useeme1234 is online now  
post #19856 of 20453 Old 01-27-2019, 03:16 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Light TV is back on 5-4, but it doesn’t matter, since 5-2, 5-4, and 9-2 are all black screens. The main signal on 5-1 is up and running though. Is there something wrong with my TV?!

I don’t reliably receive WWOR so I don’t have any updates on Buzzr or H&I.
LIantenna585 is offline  
post #19857 of 20453 Old 01-27-2019, 05:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIantenna585 View Post
Light TV is back on 5-4, but it doesn’t matter, since 5-2, 5-4, and 9-2 are all black screens. The main signal on 5-1 is up and running though. Is there something wrong with my TV?!

I don’t reliably receive WWOR so I don’t have any updates on Buzzr or H&I.
Nothing wrong with your TV. I have the same issue. 5-2, 5-4, 9-3, and 9-4 are all black screens. Actually on 5-2 I'm seeing some weird pattern of boxes going across the screen. Must be some kind of technical issue.
ansky212 is offline  
post #19858 of 20453 Old 01-28-2019, 12:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 517
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Useeme1234 View Post
Ef9500 where exactly on long island are you residing , also whats your setup, I long island is kind of hilly on northern part, south is pretty much flat as pancake.
Stony Brook. Using a clearstream 4 on roof for uhf, and a stellar labs vhf in attic for vhf. Using the cheapo rca amplifier, which actually works quite well.

Sony A1E OLED 4K Ultra H


FS Gen2 Nvidia shield TV 2017 version
EF9500 is offline  
post #19859 of 20453 Old 01-28-2019, 03:04 PM
NYC
Member
 
NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Just noticed that H&I is now on 5.4. Movies!, Light and Buzzer are still missing from over the air. On FiOS, Buzzer and H&I are in the usual spots but Movies! is gone. Calls to WNYW not returned. A scan done this morning did not help. Any idea what is going on?
Also noticed that WJLP has moved the test pattern from channel 3 to 33.20 and have labeled it Nuestra with a description of Testing.
Any news regarding the new Arts channel that (I think) was to launch on a WLIW subchannel today? Will it be on WNDT 14 at some point?

Last edited by NYC; 01-28-2019 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Just thought of something else
NYC is offline  
post #19860 of 20453 Old 01-28-2019, 04:23 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Queens, NY, US
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC View Post
Any news regarding the new Arts channel that (I think) was to launch on a WLIW subchannel today? Will it be on WNDT 14 at some point?
WLIW is very pixelated for me unless I reorient my antenna, but it does looks like All Arts has launched on WLIW. All Arts however hasn't launched on WNDT-CD, which is still showing upscaled MHz Worldview.

Also, I've been picking up WXNY-DL on RF 32 for the past few days. There is nothing on it except GoodTV logo animation. Anyway, this is probably a short term thing given WLIW will be moving into RF 32 for the repack.
Code:
ch=auto:21 lock=none ss=51 snq=0 seq=0 bps=0 pps=0
3: 21.1 WLIW HD
4: 21.2 Create
5: 21.3 World
6: 21.4 AllArts
tsid=0x0867

ch=auto:32 lock=8vsb ss=58 snq=68 seq=100 bps=19636224 pps=0
1: 32.1 WXNY-LD
tsid=0x0001
darkegg is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off