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post #20521 of 20576 Old 11-15-2019, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ansky212 View Post
What are they building out at Trumbull? I thought they were staying in the same location where they have always been.
The RF 21 facility at Trumbull is operating on a reduced power STA from a temporary directional antenna lower on the tower. They need to replace the pre-repack RF 49 antenna with one for RF 21, and replace other equipment like the transmission line.

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For the ESB location are they going to be using an existing antenna or is there a completely new antenna that will need to be installed? If it's the latter, I could see that being a very lengthy process.
The technical exhibit for the DTS application mentions installing a new antenna.

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post #20522 of 20576 Old 11-15-2019, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by KyL416 View Post
The technical exhibit for the DTS application mentions installing a new antenna.
A detail that may be worth mentioning is that the DTS application and the prior post-repack application list different antennas with different signal coverage patterns to be used at the top of the Trumbull tower. The DTS application lists an non-directional pattern, while the prior post-repack application lists a pattern that is likely the same as the pre-repack (RF 49) pattern.

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post #20523 of 20576 Old 11-15-2019, 10:04 PM
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I noticed that reception of WNET has improved, it is still weak but much improved over what was available the last few weeks. Also disappointed over losing This TV. WLNY is not easy to tune in in NYC, and annoyed that WJLP has duplicates of Laff and CourtTV. I assume that their news and weather channels are mirrored, but needless duplicates should not take up space.
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post #20524 of 20576 Old 11-16-2019, 01:20 PM
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In the case of Court TV, I think Katz signed the deal to put it on WJLP as a stopgap, since WPIX didn't add it until a couple of weeks ago. They clearly wanted some form of head start in the biggest market in the country, even if it looks totally redundant now that they have a more widely available affiliate.
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post #20525 of 20576 Old 11-17-2019, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MadMan400096 View Post
In the case of Court TV, I think Katz signed the deal to put it on WJLP as a stopgap, since WPIX didn't add it until a couple of weeks ago. They clearly wanted some form of head start in the biggest market in the country, even if it looks totally redundant now that they have a more widely available affiliate.
Thanks for that info. Hopefully, WJLP will drop the duplication of CourtTv and bring This TV back to the greater metro area. On the other hand, WJLP and WABC have both been airing Laff for years. I believe WABC added Laff when the network launched in 2015, with WJLP duplicating coverage since 2016.
It would also be great if CBS could find a way to get a decent signal from WLNY into the New York City and NJ areas without the need for a dedicated antenna for that one station.
Lastly, it seems that WNET is back to the way it was a few days ago, just about impossible to tune in at all.
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post #20526 of 20576 Old 11-17-2019, 03:15 PM
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Unfortunately the dial in the 5 boroughs is packed solid with all the LP and class A stations, including some occupying the channel numbers of the Suffolk County signals like WFTY (23) and WLNY (29):
2 - WDPN overspill (Their boosted signal now reaches into Northern NJ, Staten Island and southern Manhattan, which is why WKOB-LD was granted a displacement)
3 - WJLP/WNWT-LD
4 - WPXO-LD
5 - WNYX-LD
6 - WNYZ-LP
7 - WABC
8 - WNJB/WNJN
9 - W09CZ-D
10 - WNXY-LD
11 - WPIX
12 - WNET/WMBQ-CD/WNDT-CD
13 - WKOB-LD/WASA-LD
14 - Reserved for land mobile use in NYC
15 - Reserved for land mobile use in NYC
16 - Reserved for land mobile use in NYC
17 - W20EF-D or WNMF-LD (WLNY's former Stamford and NJ repeaters, while their former NYC repeater that became WMUN-CD cashed out in the auction)
18 - WMBC
19 - Reserved for land mobile use in Nassau county and nearby Philly
20 - W20CQ-D Hempstead (And land mobile use in nearby Philly, which prevents stations southwest of Long Island from using it)
21 - WEDW/WZME
22 - WDVB-CD/WTBY
23 - WXNY-LD
24 - WNYE
25 - WWOR/WRNN
26 - WFUT/WXTV
27 - WNYW
28 - WNYJ-LD or W28ES-D
29 - W31EF-D/WPXU-LD
30 - WNJJ-LD/WNYN-LD
31 - W34DI-D
32 - WLIW
33 - W41DO-D
34 - WPXN
35 - WNJU/WNBC
36 - WCBS

The most CBS could probably do is put a simulcast of WLNY on a subchannel of WCBS, which would help OTA viewers on those nights in the summer where CBS programming is bumped to WLNY for pre-season football or when they occasionally bump CBS's daytime programming to WLNY for special coverage of things like the 9/11 memorial or championship parades, but it won't help those who want Comet or This TV.

WNET hasn't been authorized for any additional increase in power since they moved to 1WTC in Summer 2018 and won't be increasing their power again until they move to RF 12 next spring. You might be affected from occasional co-channel atmospheric interference by WYOU Scranton, WNYA Albany or even WGBY Springfield if the conditions are right. The Fair Lawn and Queens bandscans haven't shown any changes recently, while the Poughkeepsie bandscan appears to be in an area where co-channel interference from WNYA and WGBY would be a regular occurance. Unfortunately it won't be any better for that area after WNET moves to RF 12 since Poughkeepsie is inside WNYT's RF 12 contour.

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post #20527 of 20576 Old 11-17-2019, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by KyL416 View Post

The most CBS could probably do is put a simulcast of WLNY on a subchannel of WCBS, which would help OTA viewers on those nights in the summer where CBS programming is bumped to WLNY for pre-season football or when they occasionally bump CBS's daytime programming to WLNY for special coverage of things like the 9/11 memorial or championship parades, but it won't help those who want Comet or This TV.
I have been wondering about this for years. My guess is there is some regulation that will not allow a full power station to be rebroadcast as a subchannel on another full power station. I would also guess that WLNY has very low OTA viewership to begin with given that anyone on LI with an antenna is going to have it pointed west towards NYC.

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post #20528 of 20576 Old 11-17-2019, 05:13 PM
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There is no such regulation, it happens all the time in other markets, especially in markets where stations don't all come from the same area.

Like in Philly WDPN now has a simulcast on WFMZ 69.3 in Allentown, in NEPA WSWB Scranton and WQMY Williamsport are simulcasted on WOLF's subchannels, while in Williamsport WSWB and WOLF are simulcasted on WQMY's subchannels. Long before the repack was a thing, NBC was already doing it with their O&O's in markets where their Telemundo and NBC stations transmitted from different tower sites, like Philly who had a WWSI simulcast mapped to 62-3 on WCAU's Philly signal and a WCAU simulcast mapped to 10-3 on WWSI's Atlantic City signal. Univision did it too prior to the auction when they added a simulcast of WXTV to WFUT's and WFTY's signals.


What likely initially prevented them from adding a subchannel simulcast was the ownership cap involving their then radio stations, and is likely why the sale didn't include WLNY's NYC/CT/NJ repeaters. What let CBS get WLNY without needing to divest any of their NYC AM and FM stations was that its signal didn't reach Manhattan and WCBS's signal didn't reach Riverhead, but they have since spunoff the CBS Radio division to Entercom so that isn't an issue anymore.

Also, out on Suffolk County, WLNY (and WFTY) are strong enough that you can get them with rear reception when your antenna is pointed at NYC. Futher west the closer you get to the Nassau/Queens border is where they would have been served by WLNY's repeaters like the now defunct WMUN-CD and their Plainview repeater that, at least according to the FCC records, is still broadcasting on air via the analog WLIG-LP on channel 17 from the roof of their Melville Studio. I think I saw a trace of it when I was staying at a hotel in Commack in September, unfortunately my room was on the wrong side of the building and I was only using the small antenna that came with my Hauppauge USB stick, so it could have been electromechanical interference from the building. I'll try to check again next time I'm at my cousin's place in Wheatly Heights with my laptop, but if anyone else on LI wants to check if it's actually on air, it has a very small coverage area between exits 48-50 of the LIE:
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...62cf6212b6c0ea

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post #20529 of 20576 Old 11-18-2019, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by KyL416 View Post
Unfortunately the dial in the 5 boroughs is packed solid with all the LP and class A stations, including some occupying the channel numbers of the Suffolk County signals like WFTY (23) and WLNY (29):
2 - WDPN overspill (Their boosted signal now reaches into Northern NJ, Staten Island and southern Manhattan, which is why WKOB-LD was granted a displacement)
3 - WJLP/WNWT-LD
4 - WPXO-LD
5 - WNYX-LD
6 - WNYZ-LP
7 - WABC
8 - WNJB/WNJN
9 - W09CZ-D
10 - WNXY-LD
11 - WPIX
12 - WNET/WMBQ-CD/WNDT-CD
13 - WKOB-LD/WASA-LD
14 - Reserved for land mobile use in NYC
15 - Reserved for land mobile use in NYC
16 - Reserved for land mobile use in NYC
17 - W20EF-D or WNMF-LD (WLNY's former Stamford and NJ repeaters, while their former NYC repeater that became WMUN-CD cashed out in the auction)
18 - WMBC
19 - Reserved for land mobile use in Nassau county and nearby Philly
20 - W20CQ-D Hempstead (And land mobile use in nearby Philly, which prevents stations southwest of Long Island from using it)
21 - WEDW/WZME
22 - WDVB-CD/WTBY
23 - WXNY-LD
24 - WNYE
25 - WWOR/WRNN
26 - WFUT/WXTV
27 - WNYW
28 - WNYJ-LD or W28ES-D
29 - W31EF-D/WPXU-LD
30 - WNJJ-LD/WNYN-LD
31 - W34DI-D
32 - WLIW
33 - W41DO-D
34 - WPXN
35 - WNJU/WNBC
36 - WCBS

The most CBS could probably do is put a simulcast of WLNY on a subchannel of WCBS, which would help OTA viewers on those nights in the summer where CBS programming is bumped to WLNY for pre-season football or when they occasionally bump CBS's daytime programming to WLNY for special coverage of things like the 9/11 memorial or championship parades, but it won't help those who want Comet or This TV.

WNET hasn't been authorized for any additional increase in power since they moved to 1WTC in Summer 2018 and won't be increasing their power again until they move to RF 12 next spring. You might be affected from occasional co-channel atmospheric interference by WYOU Scranton, WNYA Albany or even WGBY Springfield if the conditions are right. The Fair Lawn and Queens bandscans haven't shown any changes recently, while the Poughkeepsie bandscan appears to be in an area where co-channel interference from WNYA and WGBY would be a regular occurance. Unfortunately it won't be any better for that area after WNET moves to RF 12 since Poughkeepsie is inside WNYT's RF 12 contour.
Why is wnyx alloted 3 channels? you gave me an explanation before, i know is so ludocrouis
3 channels that are total bs programming. you could put comet tv, thistv, retrotv, what a total sham.
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post #20530 of 20576 Old 11-18-2019, 04:00 AM
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They were "alloted" multiple channels because they were originally seperate stations with different ethnic and local community programming during the analog era and through a bunch of sales they ended up carrying the various CCTV channels on them when they were still analog only, and continued to do so after they flashcut to digital, in addition to adding other non-CCTV subchannel nets on some of them.

Like I mentioned before the signals are highly directional and targetting different parts of the area because of how short spaced they are to other stations on those numbers in various directions (i.e. WTNH/WCTX on RF 10, WNJS/WNJT and WFTY on RF 23, etc) Unless you live in close proximity to the Citigroup building in Queens, many people further out in places like Brooklyn, Manhattan, Staten Island, Bronx, Westchester, New Jersey and Nassau County will only have reliable reception of one of their stations.

As for their programming, in addition to the CGTN/CCTV channels, WXNY and WNYX DID carry other networks like Retro TV and Rev'n before WLIW displaced them from RF 32 and they went silent. Their sister station in Houston carries some other channels like Heartland and The Country Network, so it's possible they will add them too when they return to air.

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post #20531 of 20576 Old 11-18-2019, 10:10 AM
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So, is the WCBS signal from the Antenna at WTC going to increase its power to help those of us in suffolk and/or are we dependent on them setting up a repeater at the WLNY antenna on channel 22?
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post #20532 of 20576 Old 11-18-2019, 10:11 AM
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So, is the WCBS signal from the Antenna at WTC going to increase its power to help those of us in suffolk and/or are we dependent on them setting up a repeater at the WLNY antenna on channel 22?
Channel 22!
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post #20533 of 20576 Old 11-18-2019, 10:40 AM
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Channel 22!
When?

I need it like yesterday !
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post #20534 of 20576 Old 11-18-2019, 11:02 AM
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When?

I need it like yesterday !
Continues to be listed as a "Granted Construction Permit" on RabbitEars.

Why not call the station?
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post #20535 of 20576 Old 11-18-2019, 11:57 AM
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So, is the WCBS signal from the Antenna at WTC going to increase its power to help those of us in suffolk and/or are we dependent on them setting up a repeater at the WLNY antenna on channel 22?
The 1WTC UHF stations, including WCBS, completed their power increase back in October. Suffolk County's issue is co-channel interference from WFSB, that's why the repeater is needed. And because of that same co-channel issue (along with WMGM in Atlantic City), WCBS can't increase their power on RF 36 anymore than they already did during the maximization window:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour....0&cir=&circen=

Like SnellKrell said, you'll need to ask WCBS for an update on the timeline for that. Hopefully it's just a matter of getting a crew there since from the application it appears they will be reusing the same antenna they had last time the RF 22 repeater was on the air and only making tweaks to the power and beam tilt.

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post #20536 of 20576 Old 11-19-2019, 07:54 AM
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I know you guys talk about wfsb ch3 hartford being ptoblematic for folks on LI, but i know lot
of folks that live in southern connecticut cant get a sniff from wfsb, is over more hills, than from rattlesnake mt. if you see their signal pattern it doesnt reach LI. the distance from nyc to avon mt, around 100 air miles, Im not disputing that there is co-channel interference, just it can be other types of interference, ie, manmade, just a thought
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post #20537 of 20576 Old 11-19-2019, 08:36 AM
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Is NJTV coming through for the rest of the world? I was up on the roof yesterday, re-orienting and securing my antenna after the winds from a few days ago, and have not been receiving NJTV since before the weekend's high winds. Everything else is coming through at 90-100, no dropouts, no pixelation, perfect DVR recordings, but no NJTV.



Did I just happen to catch a dead zone in my antenna orientation, or is it down for the rest of you?

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post #20538 of 20576 Old 11-19-2019, 09:00 AM
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Is NJTV coming through for the rest of the world? I was up on the roof yesterday, re-orienting and securing my antenna after the winds from a few days ago, and have not been receiving NJTV since before the weekend's high winds. Everything else is coming through at 90-100, no dropouts, no pixelation, perfect DVR recordings, but no NJTV.



Did I just happen to catch a dead zone in my antenna orientation, or is it down for the rest of you?
I have never been able to pull in NJTV from Essex County ever since they abandoned the Montclair transmitter. They are on the wrong side of the mountain now for me.
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post #20539 of 20576 Old 11-19-2019, 10:38 AM
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if you see their signal pattern it doesnt reach LI
Did you even look at the propogation map for their signal? It clearly covers Long Island's north shore communities and even hits the south shore in some spots with favorable terrain. Hills also have their most extreme effects in the vicinity of the hill, but further away reception improves, which is why you have deadspots behind the hills, followed by red that eventually changes to orange and yellow.

The Long Island Sound also acts as a direct reception path that lessens the effect that distance would normally have. Notice all the red and some yellow and orange over northern Suffolk county and even portions of northern Nassau. On a "good" day that's enough to kill reception of WCBS. And real world experience from several members in that area of Long Island have confirmed so, to the point that there's times on "extreme" days when they have decoded the PSIP for WFSB instead of WCBS.

WCBS also mentioned the interference from WFSB on Long Island in their original engineering narrative for a LI repeater filed back in 2009 after the digital transition:
Quote:
Further, service loss is predicted to occur within the digital Channel 33 contour area on Long Island and southern Connecticut due to incoming interference
They mentioned it again in their 2012 narrative when they filed to change the site from WLIW's tower to WLNY's tower.

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but i know lot of folks that live in southern connecticut cant get a sniff from wfsb, is over more hills, than from rattlesnake mt.
Those people in Southern CT have the reverse problem, it's not just the hills, but WCBS's signal affecting them too:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour....=&cir=&circen=
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post #20540 of 20576 Old 11-19-2019, 11:13 AM
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The WCBS signal does seem to be stronger then it was in the summer. I’m getting 75-82% quality now when In the summer it wouldn’t lock here on the north shore of suffolk in East setauket. Didn’t know if the power had increased or if this was due to the leaves coming off the trees.
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post #20541 of 20576 Old 11-19-2019, 06:31 PM
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Amen, KyL416. Back in analog days, I received WFSB & WTIC very well when I pointed my rooftop antenna at them. For the past ten years, it has taken very little atmospheric enhancement for WFSB to kill the signal of WCBS. Back in July, I asked the engineer at WCBS when the RF 22 repeater was coming back on the air. He said "sometime in the fall." Well, fall is almost over. Maybe I should ask again soon.
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post #20542 of 20576 Old 11-21-2019, 02:10 PM
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The WCBS signal does seem to be stronger then it was in the summer. I’m getting 75-82% quality now when In the summer it wouldn’t lock here on the north shore of suffolk in East setauket. Didn’t know if the power had increased or if this was due to the leaves coming off the trees.
Probably the leaves. I am in stony brook, with a cs4 on roof with amp, but have been locked on cbs, even when they were lower power during the summer. Whats your setup?

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post #20543 of 20576 Old 11-22-2019, 10:59 AM
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Probably the leaves. I am in stony brook, with a cs4 on roof with amp, but have been locked on cbs, even when they were lower power during the summer. Whats your setup?
Same antenna as you (40 ft in the air) with an amp. I would have thought an increase in power would have helped some. Guess I’m waiting for the resumption of channel 22. Hopefully it airs before the leaves grow back
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post #20544 of 20576 Old 11-22-2019, 07:53 PM
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I have never been able to pull in NJTV from Essex County ever since they abandoned the Montclair transmitter. They are on the wrong side of the mountain now for me.
At the beginning of HDTV, I watched a lot of 50.1 from this transmitter. They used to run an uncompressed one channel feed of HDTV, clearly shot by an engineer taking a camera to the boardwalk...in a loop.

I miss HDTV with no .x channels, although WLIW has now filled the PBS gap NJTV used to

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post #20545 of 20576 Old 11-23-2019, 07:55 AM
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Same antenna as you (40 ft in the air) with an amp. I would have thought an increase in power would have helped some. Guess I’m waiting for the resumption of channel 22. Hopefully it airs before the leaves grow back
Wow, you must have something(trees) blocking the signal. Thats a bummer.

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post #20546 of 20576 Old 11-23-2019, 10:44 AM
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What’s frustrating is that all the other channels from the wtc come in with 100% strength and at least 99s in quality. CBS is 100 strength but with less then 50% quality in the summer and 70s after the leaves have fallen. I am across the street from the sound to the north and three houses from conscious bay to the west so there really isn’t anything but trees that could block the signal.
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post #20547 of 20576 Old 11-23-2019, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by General Custer View Post
What’s frustrating is that all the other channels from the wtc come in with 100% strength and at least 99s in quality. CBS is 100 strength but with less then 50% quality in the summer and 70s after the leaves have fallen. I am across the street from the sound to the north and three houses from conscious bay to the west so there really isn’t anything but trees that could block the signal.
I was wondering can you get hartford stations from your location?
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post #20548 of 20576 Old 11-23-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by General Custer View Post
I am across the street from the sound to the north
That's the bigger issue for you. The closer you are to the sound, the greater the effect WFSB's interference is, since the water acts like a direct reception path to the Connecticut shoreline. On the propogation map for WFSB's signal much of East Setauket is covered in yellow and there's even some blotches of green in the vicinity.

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What’s frustrating is that all the other channels from the wtc come in with 100% strength and at least 99s in quality. CBS is 100 strength but with less then 50% quality in the summer and 70s after the leaves have fallen.
The other WTC channels outside of WPXN don't have that issue since they aren't co-channel with Connecticut signals. The "strength" meter is how strong the detected RF signal on that channel number is, the important one is the "quality" meter which is usually the signal/noise ratio. Even if you can't decode WFSB where you are, its presence creates extra noise that needs to be overcome on RF 36, so it lowers the quality reading of the WCBS signal.

Also, since WCBS and the rest of the WTC UHF stations were at reduced power between August 1st until around October 7th, I wouldn't worry too much about how low your readings were this past summer. With WCBS at reduced power while WFSB was already at full power, you weren't experiencing what your reception of WCBS's post-repack signal will be under "normal" summer conditions.

Hopefully the RF 22 translator will be back on the air in the near future since they said no tower work is needed in the application:
https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...6b6c27c75f2fe5
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As proposed herein, the WCBS-TV DRT will continue to operate on Channel 22 with its existing antenna, location, and height...No tower work is required to carry out this proposal and no change to the overall structure height will result

Last edited by KyL416; 11-23-2019 at 03:49 PM.
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post #20549 of 20576 Old 11-23-2019, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by General Custer View Post
What’s frustrating is that all the other channels from the wtc come in with 100% strength and at least 99s in quality. CBS is 100 strength but with less then 50% quality in the summer and 70s after the leaves have fallen. I am across the street from the sound to the north and three houses from conscious bay to the west so there really isn’t anything but trees that could block the signal.
If it were trees/leaves, you would also be having trouble receiving the other UHF signals from WTC. The fact that WFSB is putting out one million watts, and Long Island Sound is barely degrading its signal (and in certain conditions will ENHANCE it), co-channel interference is definitely killing your WCBS signal. This makes me curious about whether you can receive WPXN (Ion) on RF channel 34 from WTC. I would think WTIC in Hartford would be messing with that signal too, even though theirs is only half as strong as WFSB.
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post #20550 of 20576 Old 11-24-2019, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ansky212 View Post
I have never been able to pull in NJTV from Essex County ever since they abandoned the Montclair transmitter. They are on the wrong side of the mountain now for me.

That doesn't really address my concern. I'm trying to determine if there's a RECENT change in signal strength or quality at the transmitter, or on my end.



Thanks for replying. You were the only one.

James Rothe
Monmouth County, NJ
(37 miles due S of Manhattan)
My Own OTA HDTV Experience: http://www.jimrothe.com/hdtv_ota/
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