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-   -   New York, NY - OTA (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/275729-new-york-ny-ota.html)

cpto 06-30-2003 10:14 PM

I've been following the NYC five boroughs thread and I don't easily find the information I'm looking for in it.

I hope those of us with antennas can start a thread restricted only to the status of Over-The-Air broadcasts from NYC to the metro area. Not CT, not PA, and not any other state a strange bounce may have enabled you to get. Antennas and amps are already covered in different threads, so let's leave them out too.

I'd also like to keep cable out of this entirely since one has to pay for cable, and not all systems carry HDTV, much less the NY/NJ channels.

So, with luck, we'll get some interested and informed members keeping us up to date on the politics and engineering efforts to restore the signals that died on 9/11. I'd like to see information on dates, power (temp low or full) and channels. I suspect there are a lot of us that would like that info too.

Please add any information you may have to the thread. If it's a bad thread, it'll die. But hey, that's evolution in action.


stevehoff 07-01-2003 08:55 AM

I'm with you! What's up with this? Didn't I read that we should expect something in the Fall? Any updates?

George Thompson 07-01-2003 12:35 PM

I just talked to one of the maintenance guys in local. He was telling me about delays that Empire threw into the mix. Like during a site inspection, our chief walked into the room only to find a fully staffed medical office with patients!!!!! ESB is milking rent for all they can get.
November 1st is a date he mentioned. However, we have options with several transmitters in the building. We could have one up and running as soon as the combiner is set up.
I didnt hear about Fridays conference call. It was to have been about legal and operations issues with the CE's.
More when I find out.

stevehoff 07-01-2003 05:42 PM

Thanks George,
Please keep us posted. there are a few of us with antennas out here who just want to get more than CSI!!!!

RAVEN56706 07-01-2003 06:50 PM

i keep hearing the 1st of sept for abc and aug 31st for nbc.

cpto 07-01-2003 09:55 PM

Thanks, George. I'm wondering if you have any information on the radiated power and coverage of the new ESB transmitters. I'm hoping they'll be close to the ones on the WTC so I can receive them here in NJ.

Unfortunately, given the ugly politics that have cropped up about the location for a new antenna, or even a temporary one on Governors Island, I wouldn't be too surprised to see the new transmitters at a much lower power than the old ones, or with different footprints that ignore much of NJ, while the NYC stations wait to see what happens when the dust clears.


hobojoe 07-02-2003 06:37 PM

finally, a real ota only nyc thread! no more stupid mets schedules, please.

JoeCraw 07-03-2003 06:15 AM


Originally posted by hobojoe
finally, a real ota only nyc thread! no more stupid mets schedules, please.

What about Mets OTA WPIX schedules?


cpto 07-03-2003 06:48 PM

Joe - I think that's a good question but I don't think it belongs in this thread. I think a better question would be "Does anyone know when WPIX will go back to their originally-assigned UHF channel, and what its power level and coverage will be compared to pre-9/11."

I miss the Mets' broadcasts too, but in this thread the schedule is really irrelevant. Even when WPIX does resume broadcasting, I would like this thread to concentrate only on reception issues. I think schedules of Mets' games should have its own thread..

I hope we can stay focused here solely on information regarding the going-live dates, power, and coverage of the returning NY OTA HDTV channels.


John Tillman 07-04-2003 11:46 AM

I tried to tune in WEDW-49 (PBS-Bridgeport) or WLIW-22 (PBS-Plainview) last night to watch the Tom Petty concert but could not get a digital signal (got analog OK).

Tried again earlier today and got the same results... Plus WTNH-10 (ABC-NH) was DOA as well. CSI was A-OK last night (empire).

What gives? Anyone got a digital signal from PBS? Soundstage is on again tonight.


trekkerj 07-04-2003 12:45 PM

I checked out soundstage last night also. Came in fine on WLIW-DT from North Jersey.

ponnie1996 07-04-2003 01:15 PM

got to view tom petty on 49 wedw no prob last night. abc 10 was fine also. could be your set up.

John Tillman 07-04-2003 02:58 PM

Thanks guys, I'll review my gear setup and where the rotor is pointing my antenna. Empire State Building stuff is fine, so the problem must be the rotor position.

MicroChip 07-06-2003 07:09 AM

Ok, I just checked the schedule and the Giants are on MNF the second week of the season, September 15th. Think we're going to have ABC-HD by then?


cpto 07-06-2003 07:03 PM

Can we please keep this to NYC HD channels? There are other threads that address receiving PA/CT stations, antennas, rotors, and so forth.

I'm purposely trying to keep this thread limited to the status, strength, and estimated on-air dates of NYC channels.



JoeCraw 07-07-2003 07:37 AM


Originally posted by cpto
I hope we can stay focused here solely on information regarding the going-live dates, power, and coverage of the returning NY OTA HDTV channels.

Ok Rick, for what it is worth I will give a little summary of what channels I can receive and my equipment.

I have an RCA DTC-100, a UHF/VHF Radio Shack antenna and a Radio Shack amp. I am located in Plainview, NY, which is right in the middle of Long Island (north to south) and on the Nassau/Suffolk border. With the antenna pointed to NYC I receive the following digital signals:
WCBS 2-1 (Strong with great HD)
FOX 5-1 (Strong but not HD)
WOR 5-2 (Strong but lousy picture quality)
WPIX 11-1 (12-1,75-1) (Good with great HD, a few breakups)
WLIW 21-1 (Fair with great HD, many breakups, but watchable)

If I turn my antenna North toward CT I can receive:
WTNH (ABC) on channel 10-1 (Good with great HD, a few breakups)

As far as the return of some NY OTA channels, the man to ask is George Thompson. The last post I read from him said "Early Sept is a little too optimistic I think" but he does believe the ESB combiner will be going this fall.

Hope this helps,

bgut1 07-07-2003 08:41 PM

George - Is there anything we can do to get ABC up in time for MNF (i.e. letters to the FCC, network heads, contributions)? I know this has been a herculean task getting everyone to agree on the combiner but aren't the networks even a bit embarrassed how long this is taking? Its not like we are in the #1 DMA or anything.

cpto 07-07-2003 09:24 PM

For what it's worth, I recently sent a letter to the WSJ. Don't know if it will do any good but at least they might think about it...

I would like to suggest a possible article for the WSJ. This has been widely discussed in the HDTV areas of avsforum (www.avsforum.com).

The destruction of the World Trade Center building had an enormous effect on the Nation. Congress rapidly passed bills authorizing payments to those who lost their lives, and pledged billions more to help the city. It seemed that the US came together following 9/11.

Yet one aspect has been largely ignored. Before 9/11, NYC, the number one television market, had HDTV broadcasts for the three major networks, Channel 11, and a digital signal from FOX. Following the attack, only channels 2 and 5 remained (with channel 9 sharing channel 5's bandwith).

One might think that in a time of crisis the area would have pulled together to provide rapid installation of the antennas that were lost. Possibly the best site - Governors Island - was rapidly rejected by the mayor. Problems with government agencies and local townships caused the collapse of efforts to install transmitters in NJ.

Finally, the stations "agreed" to piggyback on the transmitters that were in place in the Empire State Building. Some problems were real - such as the need to run new power lines up to the top of the building or to get new equipment. Others were money - there appears to have been a lot of conflict and negotiating over the rates CBS (and perhaps FOX) would charge other networks to piggyback their signals. The "long-term" interrim goal is to build a $M 50 temporary tower on Governors Island. All that means is more delay and an increase in advertising rates as the local stations cover their costs.

Two facts seem to have been forgotten. Broadcast TV is a means of reaching almost everyone in the metro area that has a television set, regardless of whether thay have cable. And, the FCC is pushing the conversion to digital of all broadcast stations.

I know this is not a story of major interest, but I think it does indicate how the interests of the public are subsumed to politics - even when the interest is the potentially critical one of being to receive television news and programming. Approximately 2.1 million ditigal sets were sold in 2002 - see http://www.digitaltelevision.com/200...igital_1.shtml - so the market is not small.

In summary, it would be interesting to see the WSJ investigate the delays in getting a permanent solution to NYC digital transmission. Something is going on here - money or politics - and the end result is that the public is being shortchanged.


John Mason 07-08-2003 08:22 AM

Nice letter and article idea, cpto. Perhaps as a sidebar to such an article, or as an editorial, the WSJ could consider how misguided greed and politics blocking reestablishng NYC HDTV might be considered assisting the goals of the terrorists. -- John

vruiz 07-08-2003 09:23 AM

I'm still baffled as to why the stations and the MTVA did not flex any of their considerable PR muscle with regards to the best location (Governors Island) as the permanent site. They just asked the Mayor, he said no, and they just said "ok". Can you imagine the PR nightmare for City Hall if there had been ANY media reports on how the Mayor is laying off cops and firefighters and cutting all kinds of services, yet he summarily rejects a project that would bring millions of dollars in taxes to the city coffers, simply because it doesn't agree with his "vision" for the island?

Hey Bloomberg, when you have a budget crisis such as this one you can't afford a "vision"!

I just don't understand why the MTVA didn't exploit this angle. If they had, the permanent tower on Governors Island would already be on its way.

cpto 07-08-2003 04:20 PM

Vic - very nice comments. Maybe you should mail them to the NYT and WSJ. I hadn't considered the tax loss NYC will experience by refusing the Governors Island Site.


PS - Nice to see you in the thread!

hobojoe 07-08-2003 07:36 PM

hoboken, nj. i have a great view of the esb. 2.1(56)-100%, 5.1/2(44)-100%, 11.1/2(12)-95%, 13.1/2/3(61)-98%. now, wliw-dt22, for some reason, wont register when i try to add it to my channel list. during the day it comes in at 30%, but after 11pm it comes in at around 80%. i'm using a sony sat-hd100 with a radio shack vu190 or vu120. can't remember exactly, but its pretty big. no preamp, no amp. btw, its not like i hate the mets or anything, its just that the other nyc thread was really getting off topic and tv schedules kept popping up almost every day. so anyone else having problems with 22?

hayt 07-08-2003 08:20 PM

Good thread, let's not let it get away. I love the news about ABC and NBC!! I live in East Rockaway, south shore of LI. With a RS rooftop UHF/VHF I'm getting very strong (west)CBS, FOX, and UPN.WPIX is maddeningly inconsistent-some days its in the 50's (on my RCA DTC100) and others its in the 30's, and not watchable. Met games looked very good, (as good as FSNY and MSG from CV) and so did Smallville. With a set top RS amplified antenna, I get a good signal (east)on WLIW-DT on 22-2,3. HD looked superb (Tom Petty was very colorful and sharp). I have had no luck with WNYE (channel 24), PBS (61) or WLNY (57).

Bogney Baux 07-08-2003 08:50 PM


Originally posted by hayt
I have had no luck with WNYE (channel 24)

WNYE-DT was last on the air about 1.5 years ago.

Bob Hawley 07-09-2003 07:18 AM

For the last several weeks, and again last night during Smallville, I've tried to find WPIX-DT and I get nothing, not even "weak signal." I live in Stamford, and I'm using a Winegard 9095 aimed at NYC, a Winegard AP4800 preamp and a DTC-100. Last night signal strengths for CBS and Fox were in the high 80s, and WLIW was in the 40s (but erratic, sometimes diving into the 20s), but no indication of any signal at all from WPIX. I understand that WPIX is broadcasting with low power, but shouldn't I get something? If I hadn't read otherwise here, I would think that WPIX, like ABC and NBC, was not broadcasting OTA. Is it me or WPIX?

MrMartin 07-09-2003 07:33 AM

Bob, as your current Winegard 9095 is UHF antenna only, you will not be able to receive WPIX until station changes from their temporary VHF channel 12 to UHF 33.


Bob Hawley 07-09-2003 07:50 AM


Originally posted by MrMartin
Bob, as your current Winegard 9095 is UHF antenna only, you will not be able to receive WPIX until station changes from their temporary VHF channel 12 to UHF 33.


I was afraid that something like that was going to be the answer. Do we know when WPIX is expected to change to UHF 33?

Bill Broderick 07-09-2003 08:06 AM

Over the last week or two, my reception of CBS & Fox has not been great. I used to get both of these stations at a solid 100 signal strength (Toshiba DST-3000). Now they are both fluctuating between high 70's low 80's.

I'm in western Suffolk County. Has anyone else been having reception problems lately?

wilsonjd 07-09-2003 10:42 AM

Is there anyone out there in the Hudson Valley? I live in Poughkeepsie, NY. I think our chances of EVER getting OTA reception a slim and none. Maybe if they build the 1776 foot tower at the WTC site.

Bob Hawley 07-09-2003 11:10 AM


Originally posted by Bob Hawley
. . . Do we know when WPIX is expected to change to UHF 33?

Trying to answer my own question, I read the 19 pages of the WPIX thread, and no one seems to know for sure. The best guess seems to be that WPIX will go full power on UHF channel 33 from the ESB when the other digital stations begin broadcasting from the ESB. Which cannot happen soon enough, so far as I'm concerned.

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