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post #11911 of 12377 Old 06-26-2019, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrea Circle View Post
The site https://www.rabbitears.info/ used to have current information about available channels and signal strength, but with the repacking, I don't think it is reliable any more. How do you guys know about where all the channels are moving and when?
I run RabbitEars. Thus the RabbitEars logo as my avatar and link in my signature. What's wrong with it?

- Trip

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post #11912 of 12377 Old 06-26-2019, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrea Circle View Post
I used Rabbit Ears a while back but read here that it is not up-to-date with the various repacking. Is there an easy way to try to keep abreast of what is happening?
Ann, I think I confused you with a post of mine on this thread four weeks ago. I must have made over 20 posts telling users on this website that TVFool is two years out of date. RabbitEars is doing a great job keeping up with all the changes.
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post #11913 of 12377 Old 06-26-2019, 05:49 PM
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I'm also on the south shore, and oddly the only signal I can get from WBPX on 22 is when I point EAST! I sure hope for their sake that they're on a temporary antenna running very low power right now.
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post #11914 of 12377 Old 06-27-2019, 12:03 PM
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Trip always keeps his site updated..He lives and breathes this stuff every day as he works for the FCC..Outside of the actual FCC site or RecNet (another very good site which uses FCC Data) You can count on Trip's Rabbit Ears site being completely up to date.
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post #11915 of 12377 Old 06-27-2019, 06:14 PM
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Hey everybody, yes, I confused TVFool with RabbitEars. RabbitEars is doing fine with its avalanche of information.
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post #11916 of 12377 Old 06-27-2019, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrea Circle View Post
I'm having the same problem as WW WW. I did a rescan and got the 68.x channels back. I live just north of Boston. The 66.x channels are also coming in. 56.2, 56.1, and 50.1 now come in without spurious phantom channels in between. Alas, the 27.x channels are present but unwatchable. Hopefully, that will resolve.

Having read about the various upcoming moves, I'm worried that I will lose PBS channels. Is this a valid worry?

I used Rabbit Ears a while back but read here that it is not up-to-date with the various repacking. Is there an easy way to try to keep abreast of what is happening?

How often do you suggest we re-scan? Weekly?
-ann
The 27.x (virtual) channels - UniMas, Court TV, etc. are on WUTF, which broadcasts from Stiles Hill in Boylston. WUTF will move soon to the Cabot St. tower in Needham, and should be much better for you.

The future of PBS is mixed. WGBX will move from the CBS tower to Cabot St. temporarily, but will eventually end up back on the CBS tower with just under twice it's current 500 KW power. WGBH will move permanently to Cabot St and move to real ch 5 with 7 KW, which will drastically affect it's coverage. The primary PBS feed will likely end up on WGBX.

You probably don't need to rescan until something disappears.
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post #11917 of 12377 Old 07-01-2019, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
It's moved to the same tower as WUNI 66-1. Do you receive that station?

- Trip
Trip, any idea why WPBX moved to the WUNI tower? While seemingly everyone else is moving their transmission signal to Needham (WNEU, WUTF, and hopefully WUNI), I wonder why would WBPX elect to move northwest and lose ~200,000 viewers by doing so? Unless they were forced to do this, it's pretty strange to me...
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post #11918 of 12377 Old 07-01-2019, 10:26 AM
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ION has been fleeing from towers owned by American Tower nationwide, having become embroiled in some type of dispute with them. (American Tower is the company that owns the towers at Needham.)

- Trip

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post #11919 of 12377 Old 07-01-2019, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
ION has been fleeing from towers owned by American Tower nationwide, having become embroiled in some type of dispute with them. (American Tower is the company that owns the towers at Needham.)

- Trip
Enough said, American Towers is the worst to deal with...I've done a lot of fixed wireless in the past, always avoid towers own by them when I can!
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post #11920 of 12377 Old 07-05-2019, 10:57 AM
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I have seen a crawl on WBZ saying that if you get your signal OTA, you will need to rescan for the channel after 1 am on August 2nd. So, I guess they are set to move then from actual 30 to 20. And I presume that WCVB which is currently on 20 will have to move by then. Any further updates on when other channels are moving?

SMK
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post #11921 of 12377 Old 07-05-2019, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyGBiv View Post
I have seen a crawl on WBZ saying that if you get your signal OTA, you will need to rescan for the channel after 1 am on August 2nd. So, I guess they are set to move then from actual 30 to 20. And I presume that WCVB which is currently on 20 will have to move by then. Any further updates on when other channels are moving?

SMK
I'll be away around the time of the WBZ change, but can access my PC's remotely to do updates (I use JRiver Media Center and Windows Media Center). It would be really handy to have a list of which channels are moving that includes the channel name (ie: WBZ), the virtual channel number, the current frequency, the new frequency, and the date of the change if anyone happens to have that info handy.
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post #11922 of 12377 Old 07-05-2019, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyGBiv View Post
I have seen a crawl on WBZ saying that if you get your signal OTA, you will need to rescan for the channel after 1 am on August 2nd. So, I guess they are set to move then from actual 30 to 20. And I presume that WCVB which is currently on 20 will have to move by then. Any further updates on when other channels are moving?

SMK
WBZ & WCVB have to swap on the same date, but probably had no need to coordinate with other stations. Some moves are complicated enough to have to coordinate with stations as far away as ME or PA

WBPX already moved last week.

WGBH & WGBX can probably move at any time. WGBH has to move before or on the same date as WUTF.

WFXT, WUTF, & WNEU (moving to Needham from NH) have channel swaps with each other and probably also with other stations and must do it by August 2.

WHDH (with shared WLVI) & WSBK aren't moving until the 4th quarter.

Last edited by Channel99; 07-05-2019 at 04:41 PM.
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post #11923 of 12377 Old 07-06-2019, 10:09 AM
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Musical chairs?

Should we consider the next ATSC be like spread spectrum frequency hopping with multi antennas so that all the stations transmit on any or all the available channels, all fed through distributed scalable digital back haul.

Also we can throw some MU-ish MIMO smarts into the receiver side so it can handle the multi antennas transmitting on same frequency at same time from different locations, subtracting the noisy signals from the stronger signals.

Or maybe thats overthinking it and we should just do the manual re-scan.
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post #11924 of 12377 Old 07-08-2019, 06:29 PM
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I posted this data last August. Since then there have been a number of significant changes. This is extracted from June 21, 2019 FCC published data:
Phase Dates:
Phase___Testing___Completion___
3Apr 13, 2019Jun 21, 2019
4Jun 22, 2019Aug 2, 2019
7Oct 19, 2019Jan 18, 2020
8Jan 18, 202Mar 13, 2020
Boston, MA:
Station___PhaseFrom___To_____
WGBH-TV4195
WCVB-TV42033
WUTF-TV42919
WBZ-TV43020
WFXT43134
WBPX-TV43222
WPXG-TV43323
WNEU43429
WGBX-TV44332
WSBK-TV73921
WHDH74235
WEKW84918
Providence, RI-New Bedford, MA:
Station___PhaseFrom___To_____
WPRI-TV4137
WSBE-TV7212
WLNE-TV74924
WJAR75025
Portland-Auburn, ME:
Station___PhaseFrom___To_____
WIPL33524
WPFO42317
WGME-TV43815
WPXT84334
WCSH84431
WMEA-TV84536
Springfield-Holyoke, MA:
Station___PhaseFrom___To_____
WGBY-TV42213
WFXQ-CD42821
WGGB-TV44026
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post #11925 of 12377 Old 07-08-2019, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.H View Post
I posted this data last August. Since then there have been a number of significant changes. This is extracted from June 21, 2019 FCC published data:
Awesome, thanks!
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post #11926 of 12377 Old 07-09-2019, 10:37 AM
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Does this mean that every channel listed as "phase 4" is going to switch over exactly on the morning of Aug 2nd? Or will they be able to switch either a few days prior or a few days after?

SMK
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post #11927 of 12377 Old 07-09-2019, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyGBiv View Post
Does this mean that every channel listed as "phase 4" is going to switch over exactly on the morning of Aug 2nd? Or will they be able to switch either a few days prior or a few days after?

SMK
TV stations can switch any time during their phase, but must be completed by the last day. Some changes need to be coordinated between numerous stations, especially if they share frequencies.
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post #11928 of 12377 Old 07-17-2019, 02:42 AM
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So the last information I had was that WPXG was supposed to move from channel 33 to 23 today. Can anyone confirm?

- Trip

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post #11929 of 12377 Old 07-17-2019, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
So the last information I had was that WPXG was supposed to move from channel 33 to 23 today. Can anyone confirm?

- Trip
Still on 33 as of this morning...

Code:
Beginning scan on tuner 0 at 07/17/19 08:13:42

Locking, tuner 0 with key 12121212

Unocking tuner 0 with key 12121212

17 channels found
RF      Strngth dBmV    dBm     Quality SNR     Symbol  dbg     Calc_dBmV       Calc_dBm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11      100     0.0     -48.8   71      23.4    100     -2700   18.5            -30.2
19      99      -0.6    -49.4   90      29.7    100     -4600   -0.3            -49.0
20      93      -4.2    -53.0   72      23.8    100     -4950   -3.8            -52.5
24      60      -24.0   -72.8   41      13.5    100     -6950   -23.6           -72.3
27      92      -4.8    -53.5   81      26.7    100     -5025   -4.5            -53.2
29      94      -3.6    -52.4   85      28.1    100     -4925   -3.5            -52.3
30      100     0.0     -48.8   90      29.7    100     -4450   1.2             -47.5
31      85      -9.0    -57.8   69      22.8    100     -5525   -9.5            -58.2
33      84      -9.6    -58.4   67      22.1    100     -5575   -9.9            -58.7
38      74      -15.6   -64.3   42      13.9    100     -6225   -16.4           -65.1
39      81      -11.4   -60.1   64      21.1    100     -5800   -12.2           -60.9
42      100     0.0     -48.8   98      32.3    100     -4025   5.4             -43.3
43      98      -1.2    -50.0   90      29.7    100     -4850   -2.8            -51.5
44      99      -0.6    -49.4   76      25.1    100     -4800   -2.3            -51.0
45      69      -18.6   -67.3   41      13.5    100     -6600   -20.1           -68.9
46      59      -24.6   -73.3   42      13.9    100     -7175   -25.8           -74.6
50      78      -13.2   -62.0   56      18.5    100     -6125   -15.4           -64.1
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post #11930 of 12377 Old 07-17-2019, 05:20 AM
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Alright, thanks. Maybe it'll be later today, or late this evening close to midnight.

Or, it could have changed entirely. I heard that date several weeks ago.

- Trip

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post #11931 of 12377 Old 07-17-2019, 06:09 AM
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If I remember, I'll do another scan tomorrow morning...unless someone else jumps in.
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post #11932 of 12377 Old 07-17-2019, 08:49 AM
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Regarding WNEU's upcoming move to the Needham towers... anyone know if WNEU will keep its PSIP mapping to virtual channel 60.1, or will it change to somewhere lower on the dial? Intuitively, "NBC 10 Boston" (how the station brands itself) would actually be found on 10.1 on broadcast, but I realize WJAR (another NBC affiliate in the Rhode Island market) already maps to virtual 10.1. Does that really matter though, given that their RF is different? I tune in multiple channels on 58.1 between Ion Plus (WDPX licensed to Woburn, MA) and low-power WCEA (58.1 thru .7) without issue.

I also wonder what happens to WYCN (virtual 15.1), given its channel sharing arrangement with WGBH. I highly doubt NBC would keep two high-powered stations in the same market...

Thanks for any info
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post #11933 of 12377 Old 07-17-2019, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Buchholz View Post
Regarding WNEU's upcoming move to the Needham towers... anyone know if WNEU will keep its PSIP mapping to virtual channel 60.1, or will it change to somewhere lower on the dial? Intuitively, "NBC 10 Boston" (how the station brands itself) would actually be found on 10.1 on broadcast, but I realize WJAR (another NBC affiliate in the Rhode Island market) already maps to virtual 10.1. Does that really matter though, given that their RF is different? I tune in multiple channels on 58.1 between Ion Plus (WDPX licensed to Woburn, MA) and low-power WCEA (58.1 thru .7) without issue.

I also wonder what happens to WYCN (virtual 15.1), given its channel sharing arrangement with WGBH. I highly doubt NBC would keep two high-powered stations in the same market...

Thanks for any info
*Correction: I meant WYCN's channel sharing arrangement with WGBX.
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post #11934 of 12377 Old 07-17-2019, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Buchholz View Post
Regarding WNEU's upcoming move to the Needham towers... anyone know if WNEU will keep its PSIP mapping to virtual channel 60.1, or will it change to somewhere lower on the dial? Intuitively, "NBC 10 Boston" (how the station brands itself) would actually be found on 10.1 on broadcast, but I realize WJAR (another NBC affiliate in the Rhode Island market) already maps to virtual 10.1. Does that really matter though, given that their RF is different? I tune in multiple channels on 58.1 between Ion Plus (WDPX licensed to Woburn, MA) and low-power WCEA (58.1 thru .7) without issue.

I also wonder what happens to WYCN (virtual 15.1), given its channel sharing arrangement with WGBH. I highly doubt NBC would keep two high-powered stations in the same market...

Thanks for any info
Using 10 would overlap most of WJAR's coverage area. Many TV's still don't have the ability to deal with the duplicate numbers and there would be no reason for WJAR to agree to it. Getting the FCC to approve that probably would not happen. They can't use 8, because the WGBX signal overlaps a small part of the WMTW, Portland coverage area. That was brought up previously when they added the low power WBTS as 8.1 - that it could never be moved to a full power station. If they had thought this through, they should have begun emphasizing 15 instead of 10 when they first moved WYCN to Needham. Most OTA viewers are used to 15.1.

The re-packed ch 32 922 KW WGBX transmitter will have a slightly better coverage area than WNEU will have - NBC will very likely want to keep WYCN 15.1 (NBC) and 15.2 (Cozi) on the WGBX transmitter. Supposedly the contract for the channel sharing is long term and can only be broken if both parties agree.

However it is even more complicated, because WGBH is moving to VHF Ch 5, and will have a poor signal in most of the market. So it has to be assumed that they will move the primary PBS signal from WGBH to WGBX. But WGBH also has the shared WFXZ-CD 24.1 (BIZ TV) on it. So maybe they can make a deal to move WFXZ-CD to the WNEU transmitter, and possibly one other PBS diginet like Create.

Then again Comcast/NBCUniversal has come up with many surprises - so guessing is just that.

WDPX has a full power license and can stop low power WCEA from using 58.x if they choose to do it, but they haven't. However a year or so ago WCEA added ch 58.7 which just runs a test pattern. Possibly if WDPX takes any action - they may propose moving what is on 58.1 to 58.7 and stop using 58.1. That is only a guess.
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post #11935 of 12377 Old 07-18-2019, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bac522 View Post
If I remember, I'll do another scan tomorrow morning...unless someone else jumps in.
If you're able to check again for me, I'd greatly appreciate it. Nobody else seems to know for sure.

Thanks.

- Trip

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post #11936 of 12377 Old 07-18-2019, 05:16 AM
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It would appear the freq has been changed...no longer see signal on 33 but now on 23.

Code:
debug mode

Beginning scan on, tuner 0 at 07/18/19 08:04:43

Locking, tuner 0 with key 12121212

Unocking, tuner 0 with key 12121212

13 channels found
RF      Strngth dBmV    dBm     Quality SNR     Symbol  dbg     Calc_dBmV       Calc_dBm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11      100     0.0     -48.8   76      25.1    100     -2825   17.3            -31.4
19      98      -1.2    -50.0   90      29.7    100     -4675   -1.0            -49.8
20      91      -5.4    -54.1   69      22.8    100     -5075   -5.0            -53.7
23      95      -3.0    -51.8   85      28.1    100     -4825   -2.5            -51.3
27      91      -5.4    -54.1   81      26.7    100     -5125   -5.5            -54.2
29      86      -8.4    -57.1   73      24.1    100     -5425   -8.5            -57.2
30      99      -0.6    -49.4   90      29.7    100     -4625   -0.5            -49.3
31      86      -8.4    -57.1   76      25.1    100     -5425   -8.5            -57.2
34      62      -22.8   -71.5   41      13.5    100     -6900   -23.1           -71.8
39      77      -13.8   -62.5   55      18.2    100     -6050   -14.7           -63.4
42      100     0.0     -48.8   98      32.3    100     -4375   1.9             -46.8
43      92      -4.8    -53.5   81      26.7    100     -5200   -6.2            -55.0
44      98      -1.2    -50.0   68      22.4    100     -4850   -2.8            -51.5
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post #11937 of 12377 Old 07-18-2019, 05:48 AM
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Thanks!


- Trip

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post #11938 of 12377 Old 07-22-2019, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
ION has been fleeing from towers owned by American Tower nationwide, having become embroiled in some type of dispute with them. (American Tower is the company that owns the towers at Needham.)

- Trip
Shame. Between moving out of Needham to Hudson and & shutting down their translator in Dennis, MA (WMPX), ION has essentially eliminated service to the Southeastern portion of the state for anyone aiming an antenna precisely at Needham (including me). With the hundreds of millions of dollars ION reaped from the spectrum auction, I hope they will consider recouping some or all of the "262,698 persons" they willingly stopped serving as a result of the tower dispute... and that's just the Boston market -- I'd be curious to learn what the net is +/- nationwide.

I also wouldn't doubt they're underestimating their coverage loss in Boston -- folks with indoor antennas in Greater Boston will struggle to pull in WBPX from Hudson. Not great.
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post #11939 of 12377 Old 07-22-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Adam Buchholz View Post
Shame. Between moving out of Needham to Hudson and & shutting down their translator in Dennis, MA (WMPX), ION has essentially eliminated service to the Southeastern portion of the state for anyone aiming an antenna precisely at Needham (including me). With the hundreds of millions of dollars ION reaped from the spectrum auction, I hope they will consider recouping some or all of the "262,698 persons" they willingly stopped serving as a result of the tower dispute... and that's just the Boston market -- I'd be curious to learn what the net is +/- nationwide.

I also wouldn't doubt they're underestimating their coverage loss in Boston -- folks with indoor antennas in Greater Boston will struggle to pull in WBPX from Hudson. Not great.
In a lot of cases, ION is either not changing much or is improving its service. As an example, in Syracuse NY, they're moving from an outlying location to the ABC station's tower. In Albany NY, they're moving from an outlying location to the tower farm that all the major broadcasters use. In Los Angeles, Philadelphia, DC, Miami, etc., they moved to an adjacent or nearly-adjacent tower owned by someone else.

The cases I'm thinking of off the top of my head where ION is getting big downgrades are Boston and Nashville. One could also make arguments that Denver, Greenville NC, and Martinsburg WV are also downgrades.

- Trip

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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The re-packed ch 32 922 KW WGBX transmitter will have a slightly better coverage area than WNEU will have - NBC will very likely want to keep WYCN 15.1 (NBC) and 15.2 (Cozi) on the WGBX transmitter. Supposedly the contract for the channel sharing is long term and can only be broken if both parties agree.

However it is even more complicated, because WGBH is moving to VHF Ch 5, and will have a poor signal in most of the market. So it has to be assumed that they will move the primary PBS signal from WGBH to WGBX. But WGBH also has the shared WFXZ-CD 24.1 (BIZ TV) on it. So maybe they can make a deal to move WFXZ-CD to the WNEU transmitter, and possibly one other PBS diginet like Create.

Then again Comcast/NBCUniversal has come up with many surprises - so guessing is just that.
It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. My prediction is that WGBX will simply become a simulcast of WGBH and the unused 44.2 will get added to WGBX as a simulcast of 2.2 (World). When WNEU (a Telemundo licensed station) moves to Needham, perhaps they simply drop the redundant simulcasts of NBC on 60-2 & Cozi-TV
on 60-4. I wonder if Biz-TV remains where it is, or if an arrangement is made to share or license it to WNEU where there's more available bandwidth.
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