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post #12031 of 12549 Old 08-02-2019, 08:15 PM
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WGBX (and WYCN) is also on an interim antenna with reduced power until they finish the work a few months from now, likely around the same time WCVB finishes their final faciltity
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post #12032 of 12549 Old 08-02-2019, 08:17 PM
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Were these stations on reduced power before this morning?
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post #12033 of 12549 Old 08-02-2019, 08:19 PM
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As far as I can tell from the filings no. A lot of the work involves replacing the antennas they were using prior to today with a new one for their post-repack number. The original plan was to be at a reduced power from an interim site in the lead up to today so they could have replaced those antennas in advanced, but construction delays and other issues prevented them from doing so.
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post #12034 of 12549 Old 08-02-2019, 08:23 PM
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Okay gotcha. So basically I need to get an antenna that will get VHF for PBS, and then wait for them to bump the power back up on the other stations.
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post #12035 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 12:03 AM
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Leaving WHDH and their shared WLVI out of this, since they are not moving for 3 months, most of the stations broadcasting from Needham are using a temporary configuration.

The only 2 stations that should be operating now from their final tower location, antenna, and transmitter are WGBH (RF 5) and WFXT, which is on the Cabot St tower (nearest to the Sheraton hotel). WUNI, which was scheduled to move there from Hudson last night also, may or may not be in their final config.

Also on the Cabot St tower now are WBZ, WCVB, WGBX (RF 32) and WSBK, but they will move back to the CBS tower (near Muzi Ford) when the master antenna at the top is replaced. That work could not begin until all of the stations moved to the Cabot St tower last night. WSBK, unlike the other stations, is still using RF 39, at reduced power. They will not move to their new channel (RF 21) until they move back to the the CBS tower.

WNEU moved to the CBS tower last night, but on a temporary antenna, mounted low enough that the tower crews can safely work on the master antenna higher up while WNEU is on the air.

WUTF also moved to the CBS tower last night, but something did not go as planned, and this morning they filed with the FCC an instant request for an STA (special temporary authority) to use a different temporary side-mount antenna with only 50 KW, instead of their licensed 970 KW. Their justification - contractor delays.

There is a wildcard in this - WNEU's now unused available bandwidth, previously used by NBCBoston and Cozi. Those are on WYCN-CD, shared on the WGBX RF 32 transmitter, for which they pay WGBX. Could WGBH/X be negotiating with WNEU to move WGBH-HD or WGBX-HD to WNEU?

Otherwise it is hard to understand what incredibly bad judgement led to WGBH/X to put the most valuable channels on RF 5, and all the secondary stuff on the much better RF 32 signal. They then seem to have added the SD signals to RF 32 to help cover up for the expected signal problems.

There is one more thing that also makes little sense - why is WBTS still on? It will move soon to RI without NBCBoston. It should have been off when viewers were re-scanning, to they would find only WYCN-CD on 15-1. Those that found WBTS 8-1 will have to scan yet again.
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post #12036 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 12:14 AM
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Unless WBTS files for silent authority, and being off air for the convenience of people scanning is a valid reason in the FCC's eyes, they have to remain on air until they're ready to move to RI or lose their license entirely. WBTS's Rhode Island construction permit doesn't expire until September 2021, so they have over 2 years to complete that move.

WYCN is licensed to share with WGBX not WGBH, and that deal was made after WGBH sold their spectrum and took the payout to move to VHF-Lo. So unless WYCN backs out of that deal and files to share with someone else, they have no choice but to carry NBC in HD and Cozi on WGBX's UHF signal with the percentage of bandwidth and picture quality as dictated in their channel sharing agreement. It's a lot easier to jam in all those SD channels in that remaining space, and stick their two HD channels with the SD only WFXZ-CD BizTV, who's licensed to share with WGBH's VHF signal, and since WGBH also owns WFXZ, they aren't restricted in what they can give priority bandwidth to on WGBH's signal.
Also what's more valuable is their virtual number 2, which gives them the must carry claim to the start of the lineup on the cable and satellite providers, compared to WGBX which is all over the place depending on what provider and system you have.


The FCC does not see people refusing to use a VHF antenna as a reason to take action, so they'll likely ignore any complaints from people who are using those UHF only "HDTV" antennas. What they will pay attention to is people who are using a VHF-lo antenna like rabbit ears or a made for VHF outdoor/attic antenna and are still having problems, which will hopefully let WGBH get a power boost like WPVI, WACP and WDPN got in the Philly DMA, like WJLP got in NYC, and like WRGB got in Albany. No, it won't help those who are using leaf antennas, but it should be enough to help overcome issues caused by cheap power supplies and building materials for indoor users with rabbit ears, with the added benefit of reaching a wider area for attic/outdoor users. (i.e. here in Northeast PA after they got their boost to 34 kW, I can pick up WPVI/6 and WDPN/2 from 70+ miles away with an amplified pair of rabbit ears from the dollar store in my attic)
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post #12037 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingflynn View Post
Okay gotcha. So basically I need to get an antenna that will get VHF for PBS, and then wait for them to bump the power back up on the other stations.


And make sure it gets VHF-low and not just VHF-high.

From what I’ve learned today, none of the “mud flap” antennas that have become extremely common pull in vhf-low.


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post #12038 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 01:29 AM
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Thank you to the last few posters to explain a lot of what is going on. One question I have is why wasn’t WGBH given VHF-high space? Are nearby broadcasters using all of those channels? At least more of us have antennas that do vhf-high in addition to uhf compared to vhf-low.

Also, should ATSC 3.0 be implemented and those that do must broadcast both 1.0 and 3.0 for five years, is there enough bandwidth? I think I now know the answer- repopulate VHF.

I wish Ed Ansen would put WHDH out of it’s misery or make WHDH the CW station and get rid of WSBK and then channel share with WGBH. I found the recent July 4th Boston Pops on WHDH. That’s the only time I’ve watched WHDH since they lost their NBC affiliation. I can’t stand their “if it bleeds it leads newscast.”


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post #12039 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 01:45 AM
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receiving whdh wlvi in nyc tonite
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post #12040 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnkflyd51 View Post
One question I have is why wasn’t WGBH given VHF-high space? Are nearby broadcasters using all of those channels?
The VHF frequencies are already claimed in Boston and the surrounding markets. The bigger incentive was to get stations to agree to move to VHF-lo which would make the job of repacking everything easier since the UHF band now only goes up to RF 36. (And in Boston it's worse since RF 14 and RF 16 need to be protected for Land Mobile use, giving them two less UHF channels.)

Taking a sample of Boston and 100+ miles away:
2 - WSBE Providence (also took the incentive to move)
3 - nothing
4 - WHDT-LD
5 - WGBH
6 - WLLB-LD Portland (and the occasional pirate on 87.7)
7 - WPRI Providence
8 - WMTW Maine
9 - WMUR
10 - WWDP/WMFP
11 - WENH
12 - WNAC Providence
13 - WGBY Springfield
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post #12041 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 03:45 AM
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Those two channels are in uhf rf 35
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post #12042 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 09:02 AM
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Update from southern NH. I rescanned all three of our TVs. We are using two roof antennas: UHF pointing to Boston and VHF-hi at WENH in NH.

Received stations:
2.2, .3
4.1, .2
5.1, .2
7.1, .2
9.1, .2
11.1, .2, .3, .4, .5
15.1, .2
25.1, .2 .3
44.2, .3, .4
56.1, .2
60.1 .2

Atmospherics must be good today since even WMTW out of Poland Springs ME showed up on RF 8. We have been able to receive it on occasion in the past. It just happens to be in same azimuth as WENH and WMUR for us.

I did not notice the WBZ pixelation problem but did not spent a lot of time actually watching programs.
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post #12043 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 09:10 AM
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TIVO and the recent channel changes

Hi. I've been reading about the changes, I'm in the Franklin area and have a TIVO romeo OTA. The program guide is wacked after rescan. I can see thew program guide for the channels that are no longer being used and "To be announced" on the new channels. Do I need to reach out to TIVO or will this be fixed over time? Sorry for the n00b question.

I did see that one other person was complaining about the same but no response from the crowd.
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post #12044 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 09:27 AM
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You need to reach out to TiVO to get them to update the RF numbers in their guide data.
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post #12045 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by KyL416 View Post
You need to reach out to TiVO to get them to update the RF numbers in their guide data.
thank you. I also realized I can't set up manual recordings on channels that don't have program data. What an absolute pain in the a$$.
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post #12046 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by marty1 View Post
Hi. I've been reading about the changes, I'm in the Franklin area and have a TIVO romeo OTA. The program guide is wacked after rescan. I can see thew program guide for the channels that are no longer being used and "To be announced" on the new channels. Do I need to reach out to TIVO or will this be fixed over time? Sorry for the n00b question.

I did see that one other person was complaining about the same but no response from the crowd.
send an update to Tivo

tivo.com/lineup

Just explain what happened that station _____ (use call sign as shown in the Tivo guide) moved from RF ___ to RF ____. It takes a few days but they will get it changed
Since you are using OTA when it asks for cable company I just put "none (OTA)" to get around that.
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post #12047 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 02:37 PM
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WBZ TV reception

Looks like the engineers got it done at WBZ-DT although the transmission update page has not been update. I'm getting good reception here south of the Blue Hill. As a bonus I can now get WPRI 12 and after adjusting the dipole lengths am getting reliable WGBH reception.
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post #12048 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 07:10 PM
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Random question for anyone who can tell after this repack....for those who receive both NBC channels (8.1 & 15.1) which one now has a higher bitrate?
Tonight I made simultaneous 10-minute recordings of NBC programming on 8.1 and 15.1 The bitrate appears to be the same now. For 8.1 the overall bit rate was 7,949 Kbps. For 15.1 the overall bit rate was 8,013 Kbps. They're both 1080i. I believe in the past 15.1 was 720p. I get a much stronger signal on 15.1, 93% vs 50% for 8.1, and also it's been stated that 8.1 will be moving towards Providence. I'll be using 15.1 now.
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post #12049 of 12549 Old 08-03-2019, 07:59 PM
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Tonight I made simultaneous 10-minute recordings of NBC programming on 8.1 and 15.1 The bitrate appears to be the same now. For 8.1 the overall bit rate was 7,949 Kbps. For 15.1 the overall bit rate was 8,013 Kbps. They're both 1080i. I believe in the past 15.1 was 720p. I get a much stronger signal on 15.1, 93% vs 50% for 8.1, and also it's been stated that 8.1 will be moving towards Providence. I'll be using 15.1 now.
WBTS should be moving to Providence soon, however once there, they won't be carrying NBCBoston. WBTS is only a low power station, while WYCN-CD, sharing on the WGBX signal, is a full power station.
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post #12050 of 12549 Old 08-04-2019, 03:32 AM
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TiVo is amazingly not on top of this, but they haven’t been for several years now. When stations were changing frequencies and affiliations a few years back (especially during the whole NBC/WHDH divorce), I was constantly sending them messages to get everything aligned. I knew that it would take them a while to get this all straight (they still don’t have WPRI aligned to the right frequency, for example) and I don’t have the patience to keep emailing them. I think they have a skeleton staff these days.

I believe 15.1 has been 1080i since NBC started channel sharing with WGBX. It was the old 60.5 (channel sharing with WMFP) that was only 720. When that was the option, I always tuned to 8.1 even though the signal was weaker for me. But since 15.1 started, I’ve been using that.

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post #12051 of 12549 Old 08-04-2019, 04:59 AM
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TiVo is amazingly not on top of this, but they haven’t been for several years now. When stations were changing frequencies and affiliations a few years back (especially during the whole NBC/WHDH divorce), I was constantly sending them messages to get everything aligned. I knew that it would take them a while to get this all straight (they still don’t have WPRI aligned to the right frequency, for example) and I don’t have the patience to keep emailing them. I think they have a skeleton staff these days...
That's why I'm glad that I use an over-the-air DTVPal DVR that gets all of its channel/frequency/program information from the actual information being sent out with each station's PSIP data. There is no "middleman" involved to get the changes correct in a timely manner. After I re-scanned on Friday (08/02), all of my Providence DMA and Boston DMA stations were immediately aligned correctly to the new RF channels and the program guide data was correct for all of the stations.

Of course the other benefit of using my DTVPal DVR is that there are no monthly, yearly or lifetime fees like there are with an over-the-air TiVO. I've had 2 of the DTVPal DVRs in use for years so I have enjoyed substantial savings by not having any additional service fees after purchasing the DVRs. The DTVPal DVR has 2 over-the-air tuners which are very sensitive (much better than the internal tuners in some TVs) allowing me to receive 70 channels/sub-channels at my home in Fall River, MA.
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post #12052 of 12549 Old 08-04-2019, 07:26 AM
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Wfxt

Anyone else having trouble receiving WFXT (25) post repack? I'm in southern NH, and I am getting almost no signal (not enough for even a pixelated picture, or for the TV to even determine the virtual channel. I've never had trouble receiving on the old transmitter, and the temporary one this past winter. Hoping they are at low power but haven't seen any reports of that.



Jerry
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post #12053 of 12549 Old 08-04-2019, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jerryxc View Post
Anyone else having trouble receiving WFXT (25) post repack?
I am in southern NH and have not seen any problems with WFXT 25. I am OTA tuned to it right now: 9:48 AM Sunday. I rescanned once after the repack fest on 8/2.
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post #12054 of 12549 Old 08-04-2019, 08:11 AM
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25 seems fine in southern nh , uhf only, attic yagi, cm4248, with channelmaster cm3410 amp added same day as repack.

Everything else DTV seems as expected with uhf yagi pointed needham since 2001.

I see the 4.1 pixelation and understand the pbs administrative/no-HD issues especially thanks to discussion here.
I like the pbs SD signal being available, very nice stopgap macguyver approach. Kudos to team who made that happen, as well as all the other tech teams making it happen.

My big disappointment is court tv 27 subchannel has left the building. Thankfully it is streamable for free.

I will get a vhf antenna pointed at wmur since spousal approver prefers wmur. Will consider combining signal after standalone vhf tests. but it may suffice spousally to feed a vhf antenna signal to a dedicated recast or hd homerun.

Can we get a $125 per viewer payout experian-style due to our chores handling the “chronic repack”?
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post #12055 of 12549 Old 08-04-2019, 08:28 AM
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I will get a vhf antenna pointed at wmur since spousal approver prefers wmur. Will consider combining signal after standalone vhf tests.
https://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/...vhf/dp/71Y5462
https://www.amazon.com/RCA-TVPRAMP1Z.../dp/B003P92D9Y
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post #12056 of 12549 Old 08-04-2019, 10:57 AM
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TiVo fixed Guide and RF mapping. Looks good again.
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post #12057 of 12549 Old 08-04-2019, 10:57 AM
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As of this morning TIVO has fixed the guide issues for WGBH, WBZ, and WFXT. Although WGBH has been fixed, WGBX has not been fixed, nor have the others as far as I can tell.

SMK
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post #12058 of 12549 Old 08-04-2019, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jerryxc View Post
Anyone else having trouble receiving WFXT (25) post repack? I'm in southern NH, and I am getting almost no signal (not enough for even a pixelated picture, or for the TV to even determine the virtual channel. I've never had trouble receiving on the old transmitter, and the temporary one this past winter. Hoping they are at low power but haven't seen any reports of that.



Jerry
I’m having the same problem. It was never an issue before the repack. Scanning can’t even pick it up. I live in Somerset.
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post #12059 of 12549 Old 08-04-2019, 11:20 AM
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I’m having the same problem. It was never an issue before the repack. Scanning can’t even pick it up. I live in Somerset.
You need a better/stronger antenna as I'm picking up WFXT (channel 25-1) with a signal strength of 90-91 (out of 100) and I'm located right across the Taunton River from you in Fall River, MA. I'm using a Winegard HD7698P antenna on my roof and a DTVPal DVR to receive the over-the-air TV channels (receiving 70 total channels including the sub-channels).
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post #12060 of 12549 Old 08-04-2019, 12:44 PM
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You need a better/stronger antenna as I'm picking up WFXT (channel 25-1) with a signal strength of 90-91 (out of 100) and I'm located right across the Taunton River from you in Fall River, MA. I'm using a Winegard HD7698P antenna on my roof and a DTVPal DVR to receive the over-the-air TV channels (receiving 70 total channels including the sub-channels).
Antenna has been working fine till repack. Always had solid 95 to 99 signal strength on 25. Same thing with 2 and 44. Antenna has been rock solid until August 2.
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