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post #12091 of 12543 Old 08-08-2019, 01:19 PM
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I'm in Danville -- which is not too far from Epping. My house runs north south such that My south peak points to Boston the the north points to...Epping. I have a DB8e pointing out the south peak and a Y10-7-13 pointing northwest. The attic is full height walk up. Get great reception on 4,5,7,9,11,25,38,44,and 56 (66 and 68 are pretty sketchy right now).

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post #12092 of 12543 Old 08-08-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
I'm in Danville -- which is not too far from Epping. My house runs north south such that My south peak points to Boston the the north points to...Epping. I have a DB8e pointing out the south peak and a Y10-7-13 pointing northwest. The attic is full height walk up. Get great reception on 4,5,7,9,11,25,38,44,56,66, and 68.
What kind of diplexer do you use? I've got someone set up on Cape Cod with an HDB91X pointed at Boston (for UHF). Worked great until the repack, but hoping that will improve once the tower work is complete. He may want to add VHF (Stellar Labs 30-2476) pointed at Boston or Providence to get a couple extra stations; I don't see a lot of great info published on the web about UHF/VHF diplexers... to my knowledge there are two practical approaches here:
  • Buy an RCA TVPRAMP1Z to replace existing preamp & combine two antennas without the need for extra splitting/devices. But there are tons of complaints on Amazon, TVFool, etc about the longevity and voltage regulation of this product
  • Keep the existing preamp, but add a UVSJ to combine the two antennas (e.g. Antenna's Direct EU385 or Stellar Labs 33-2230). Potentially add a UVSJ *after* the amplifier to allow DC to pass through to the UHF antenna and minimize additional insertion loss on UHF.

Some DXers have measured the insertion loss these devices introduce and posted the results from their tests. I'm generally skeptical that I can do this in a way that doesn't result in unwanted signal attenuation on the "primary" antenna. Any advice on a UVSJ and best practices is welcome!
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post #12093 of 12543 Old 08-08-2019, 02:24 PM
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Apparently the new "DABL" network will launch on Sept 9, available in the Boston market on WBZ 4-3... lifestyle diginet from CBS featuring Emeril Lagassi, Martha Stewart, etc. This channel info has already been added to the Rabbitears site
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post #12094 of 12543 Old 08-08-2019, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by adam buchholz View Post
what kind of diplexer do you use? I've got someone set up on cape cod with an hdb91x pointed at boston (for uhf). Worked great until the repack, but hoping that will improve once the tower work is complete. He may want to add vhf (stellar labs 30-2476) pointed at boston or providence to get a couple extra stations; i don't see a lot of great info published on the web about uhf/vhf diplexers... To my knowledge there are two practical approaches...
rca tvpramp1z
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post #12095 of 12543 Old 08-08-2019, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam Buchholz View Post
Apparently the new "DABL" network will launch on Sept 9, available in the Boston market on WBZ 4-3... lifestyle diginet from CBS featuring Emeril Lagassi, Martha Stewart, etc. This channel info has already been added to the Rabbitears site
Really need Antenna TV -- just for a late night show that is funny.
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post #12096 of 12543 Old 08-08-2019, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
Really need Antenna TV -- just for a late night show that is funny.
Can you not pull that from Portland's WCSH? Here in Epping I get that them on the backside of my CS4V and signal is pretty strong.
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post #12097 of 12543 Old 08-08-2019, 04:34 PM
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probably. may point a db8e or a 91xg up there. have to feed it through an hdhomerun or a tablo tv dvr. rather they just bring it to boston.
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post #12098 of 12543 Old 08-08-2019, 05:31 PM
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I tried the attic thing initially, thought I was SoL as signals were awful on all channels...attic installs are tough. Decided to move to the roof and it was like night and day with signal strength and SNR.
Attic installations can be unreliable due to the presence of metal or other signal reflecting materials. If your house is covered in, say, aluminum siding, an attic install is probably doomed to fail. With ATSC 1.0 signals, a roof installation is much more dependable for good reception than any attic install.
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post #12099 of 12543 Old 08-08-2019, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian in CT View Post
Attic installations can be unreliable due to the presence of metal or other signal reflecting materials. If your house is covered in, say, aluminum siding, an attic install is probably doomed to fail. With ATSC 1.0 signals, a roof installation is much more dependable for good reception than any attic install.
Well, I used to have an antenna mounted above the roof line and another in the attic. Same antenna. In fact, I had two pairs -- two DB8Es and two 91XGs. The 91XG performed better above the roof line and the DB8E worked better in the attic. Not much difference at all among all four combinations. When I had my house sided, I borrowed some of the insulation so I could test the attenuation. No impact at all...



In at least one installation, the attic installation was as good as the roof install. What kind of testing have you done? Absent a dramatic improvement from the roof, I strongly prefer an attic installation. I have never had a failure due to weather or even during inclement weather, but, if I did, I think it would be much more fun to open a door, walk up a dozen steps, turn on a light, and fix things than to drag out a ladder and work on the roof.
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post #12100 of 12543 Old 08-08-2019, 06:12 PM
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Attic installs can be fine.
There are advantages with wifi /router/ hub and DVRs there too.
Multipath or obstacles in line of sight are more trouble than an wood attic wall or shingle.

20 years success at two locations in southern NH. YAGI.
Also used amp for 15 of the years.

Stay off the roof!
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post #12101 of 12543 Old 08-08-2019, 08:40 PM
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Wink

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Originally Posted by Adam Buchholz View Post
Apparently the new "DABL" network will launch on Sept 9, available in the Boston market on WBZ 4-3... lifestyle diginet from CBS featuring Emeril Lagassi, Martha Stewart, etc. This channel info has already been added to the Rabbitears site

It's Emeril Lagasse. Trust me on that one, OK?
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post #12102 of 12543 Old 08-09-2019, 08:59 AM
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Rabbitears now has WYCN-LD as RF 46/PSIP 8.1-.4 and moving to Providence and WBTS-CD as RF 32/PSIP 15.1-.2 channel-sharing with WGBX. 🤔
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post #12103 of 12543 Old 08-09-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by WorcOta View Post
Rabbitears now has WYCN-LD as RF 46/PSIP 8.1-.4 and moving to Providence and WBTS-CD as RF 32/PSIP 15.1-.2 channel-sharing with WGBX. 🤔
My tuner says the same thing. Strange.
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post #12104 of 12543 Old 08-09-2019, 12:19 PM
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WYCN and WBTS swapped call signs yesterday to prep for the eventual move to Providence. So 15-x is now WBTS-CD and 8-x is now WYCN-LD.

WBTS-CD Call Sign History
WYCN-LD Call Sign History
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post #12105 of 12543 Old 08-09-2019, 03:17 PM
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WYCN and WBTS swapped call signs yesterday to prep for the eventual move to Providence. So 15-x is now WBTS-CD and 8-x is now WYCN-LD.

WBTS-CD Call Sign History
WYCN-LD Call Sign History
I guess that answers a few questions. WBTS-CD, formerly WYCN-CD, will be NBC 10 Boston's main OTA station, and it doesn't look WGBX/44.1 will be getting back a UHF HD feed anytime soon. Still haven't had any luck picking up WGBH on RF 5 in Worcester, hopefully they request a power increase soon.

Any guesses on what WYCN-LD will become?
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post #12106 of 12543 Old 08-09-2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by KyL416 View Post
WYCN and WBTS swapped call signs yesterday to prep for the eventual move to Providence. So 15-x is now WBTS-CD and 8-x is now WYCN-LD.

WBTS-CD Call Sign History
WYCN-LD Call Sign History
Good grief - they couldn't have done that at the same time that all the other changes happened on 8/2??? I just returned home from vacation last night and got my Windows Media Center and JRiver Media Center PC's all switched over today only to see that there are now more changes. Ugh... As long as the guide data is showing the correct shows on the correct channel numbers, I'm not going to make any further changes until the next batch of RF channel moves.


So far, I've been able to receive all the expected channels here in Billerica, including 2.1 and 44.1 on RF channel 5. Fortunately when I went with an attic mounted antenna a while back, I decided to go with one that did full VHF and UHF, which allows me to use it for FM broadcasts as well.

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post #12107 of 12543 Old 08-09-2019, 04:02 PM
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The channel numbers are the same and content on the channels are the same, 15-1 is still NBC Boston, 15-2 is still Cozi, the only thing that changed is the PSIP label. The 8-x signal has to remain on the air until they are ready to move to Providence, otherwise they can lose their license entirely for being off air for an extended time without what the FCC sees as a valid reason to request silent authority.

Windows Media Center though is going to be a nightmare for you until TiVO/Rovi fixes some mapping issues. They still have NBC Boston on 60-2 instead of Telexitos, they still have 48-1 WYDN pointing to RF 47, the order of the Ion subchannels on 21-x WGPX are screwed up, and they still have the RF numbers screwed up for WGBH and WGBX with 44-1 still pointing to RF 32, 2-2 pointing to RF 5, 2-3 pointing to RF 19, and are missing 44-2 entirely. If you use epg123 to get Gracenote's data for Windows Media Center you should be good after doing some manual additions because of a bug where Windows Media Center doesn't scan the VHF band.



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and it doesn't look WGBX/44.1 will be getting back a UHF HD feed anytime soon. Still haven't had any luck picking up WGBH on RF 5 in Worcester, hopefully they request a power increase soon
15-1 NBC Boston is staying on WGBX's signal, like mentioned earlier, WGBX's coverage area is nearly identicle to what will be the final coverage area of WBZ and WCVB when the work at Needham is done, while their sister Telemundo station WNEU has a much smaller directional coverage area.

No idea what will become of WYCN after it moves to Providence. If NBC doesn't sell it maybe it will become a HD simulcast of Telemundo for the northern portions of the Providence DMA since their Telemundo station WRIW is a SD only station spectrum sharing with WPXQ, who broadcasts from the southern part of the market near the Connecticut border. They could also use it to carry Cozi and Telexitos since Providence has no local affiliates of those networks.

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post #12108 of 12543 Old 08-09-2019, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by KyL416 View Post
The channel numbers are the same and content on the channels are the same, 15-1 is still NBC Boston, 15-2 is still Cozi, the only thing that changed is the PSIP label. The 8-x signal has to remain on the air until they are ready to move to Providence, otherwise they can lose their license entirely for being off air for an extended time without what the FCC sees as a valid reason to request silent authority.

Windows Media Center though is going to be a nightmare for you until TiVO/Rovi fixes some mapping issues. They still have NBC Boston on 60-2 instead of Telexitos, they still have 48-1 WYDN pointing to RF 47, the order of the Ion subchannels on 21-x WGPX are screwed up, and they still have the RF numbers screwed up for WGBH and WGBX with 44-1 still pointing to RF 32, 2-2 pointing to RF 5, 2-3 pointing to RF 19, and are missing 44-2 entirely. If you use epg123 to get Gracenote's data for Windows Media Center you should be good after doing some manual additions because of a bug where Windows Media Center doesn't scan the VHF band.
I switched to EPG123 to get data from SchedulesDirect about a year ago after the constant guide data failures that left most (all?) users without data or nearly without data numerous times. I had to manually add 2.1, 44.1, and 24.1 (don't really care about 24.1 for my needs, but added it anyway) due to the WMC VHF band bug you mention.


JRiver is a fair amount easier to update because you can just go in and add/edit/delete channels and assign id's for the guide data in their channel configuration. I'm also using SchedulesDirect there.


Even with everything going fairly smoothly, it took a few hours to get everything changed over for the 8/2 changes, with some of that time simply waiting for a guide update to finish.
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post #12109 of 12543 Old 08-09-2019, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by KyL416 View Post
15-1 NBC Boston is staying on WGBX's signal, like mentioned earlier, WGBX's coverage area is nearly identicle to what will be the final coverage area of WBZ and WCVB when the work at Needham is done, while their sister Telemundo station WNEU has a much smaller directional coverage area
I really can't complain; I can pick up every channel at Needham at full levels (with the exception of WUTF which has been having issues since the move + WGBH) and all the Rehoboth towers at decent strength, with just a mud flap and a set of long rabbit ears. WGBH just won't lock for me no matter how I aim or contort. I don't need to try hard to get any other channels here, so I need something just for VHF-lo, which doesn't seem easy to come by.
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post #12110 of 12543 Old 08-09-2019, 05:55 PM
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Well wizwor & tveli, call me corrected. All I (think I) know about ATSC 1.0 reception is what I've been told by other OTA enthusiasts, and by reading articles on antennas. In fact, the aluminum siding bit came from a user of the AVS Forum in a discussion about what type of house materials are bad for reception. I'm glad you guys have had success in the attic. As for me, I use a rotor (which would be hard to do in my attic), and my rooftop installation gives me about six more feet of height.
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post #12111 of 12543 Old 08-09-2019, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyL416 View Post
WYCN and WBTS swapped call signs yesterday to prep for the eventual move to Providence. So 15-x is now WBTS-CD and 8-x is now WYCN-LD.

WBTS-CD Call Sign History
WYCN-LD Call Sign History
This was a logical change, since "WBTS" is associated with NBC Boston, while "WYCN" is not. Virtual ch 8-x had to move, though, because it could not be shared on a full power station from Needham, due to the small overlap with WMTW, Portland, which uses 8-x.

So now the OTA viewers only have to remember NBC 10 is on Ch 15, with no other virtual numbers, unless of course they are actually picking the other NBC 10 from Providence....
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post #12112 of 12543 Old 08-10-2019, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in CT View Post
Well wizwor & tveli, call me corrected. All I (think I) know about ATSC 1.0 reception is what I've been told by other OTA enthusiasts, and by reading articles on antennas. In fact, the aluminum siding bit came from a user of the AVS Forum in a discussion about what type of house materials are bad for reception. I'm glad you guys have had success in the attic. As for me, I use a rotor (which would be hard to do in my attic), and my rooftop installation gives me about six more feet of height.
No doubt aluminum siding would be an issue. Same for foil backed insulation. Lots of things block signal -- including trees and hills. Generally, though, vinyl, cedar, and other such things are not a problem. Hard to say, though, which is why I tested the insulation they put behind my vinyl. And that's why I encourage people to TRY an attic install.

This folklore about an attic install dropping signal 50% is just that -- folklore. It may be that someone once measured the signal and found it to be 50% less in the attic, but that could have been because of the added height or the construction of that particular building or even other things in the attic. This guy looks at some specific issues...

https://otadtv.com/factors/index.html

Since cell phones live at the top of the UHF band, one way to get an idea if an attic install is viable is to simply check your cell signal inside and out.

I have used a rotor in my attic (back in the 90s). It was a BIG all frequency antenna. Just spun around up there. I love my walk up attic.
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post #12113 of 12543 Old 08-10-2019, 08:32 AM
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Cool Repack antenna suggestion / recommendation

Hello: I would like to ask for any recommendations for a replacement indoor antenna, as my old spectrum 813 (which otherwise still works well) but does not cover below 87mhz. From what I have read, I am guessing this is why I cannot receive 2.1 and 44.1. I am searching for an indoor (not attic) model, amplified, with 60-70+ mile range.


Also....are these models which claim to feature 3G & 4G filters really do as they claim, or is that some kind of marketing hoax?


Thank you, kindly.
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post #12114 of 12543 Old 08-10-2019, 11:30 AM
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Question I have same issue as NCC1701F only I have a Mohu Curve 50

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Originally Posted by NCC1701F View Post
Hello: I would like to ask for any recommendations for a replacement indoor antenna, as my old spectrum 813 (which otherwise still works well) but does not cover below 87mhz. From what I have read, I am guessing this is why I cannot receive 2.1 and 44.1. I am searching for an indoor (not attic) model, amplified, with 60-70+ mile range.


Thank you, kindly.
I have the exact same problem, since I can get almost every channel after the "Repack" but not 2.1 or 44.1. My Mohu Curve 50 doesn't get me a thing on either 2.1 or 44.1 so I guess I should buy a new indoor antenna. Thanks!
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post #12115 of 12543 Old 08-10-2019, 02:21 PM
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Used to be we could pull in all of VHF with a dipole. I don't see a lot of these promising to deliver low-vhf. RCA has a bunch that do...

https://www.rcaantennas.net/indoor-hd-antenna/

Dipoles seem short to me, but they are inexpensive and ship free with code FREESHIP (right on the page).
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post #12116 of 12543 Old 08-10-2019, 06:29 PM
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Question WBZ TV reception

Is WBZ's transmitter down? I'm getting 0 signal.
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post #12117 of 12543 Old 08-10-2019, 06:36 PM
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Is WBZ's transmitter down? I'm getting 0 signal.
Yes, it off at 8:30 PM.
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post #12118 of 12543 Old 08-10-2019, 07:25 PM
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Yes, it off at 8:30 PM.
Sheesh, maybe they could put a little note on the wbz.com homepage? I mean "off the air" is a pretty big problem and fairly rare. How about a little info for the (non)viewing public?
I seem to have lost 2.2 and 44.2 (WGBH .2 and WGBX .2) as well.

Last edited by DocSmith; 08-10-2019 at 07:28 PM.
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post #12119 of 12543 Old 08-10-2019, 07:36 PM
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Confirming not receiving the WGBH & WBGX sub-channels (i.e. the ones NOT on RF 5, that don't require VHF-Lo).

EDIT: Look for updates on WBZ's twitter feed, not their web page; https://twitter.com/wbz
reported it, though not until a few minutes before 10pm. And as of 10:30 WBZ (4.1) was back on the air again.

Last edited by trackavsforum; 08-10-2019 at 08:30 PM.
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post #12120 of 12543 Old 08-10-2019, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by trackavsforum View Post
Confirming not receiving the WGBH & WBGX sub-channels (i.e. the ones NOT on RF 5, that don't require VHF-Lo).
I think 4.1, 2.2, 2.3, 44.2, 44.3 all share some common part of a Needham tower and transmitter system.
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