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post #12481 of 12500 Old 11-21-2019, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Use the RabbitEars Search Map instead; it's up to date unlike TVFool. Be sure to set the search distance to something like 80 miles.

- Trip
Here is my RabbitEar report https://www.rabbitears.info/searchma...study_id=29751
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post #12482 of 12500 Old 11-22-2019, 07:21 PM
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I checked out your report. The likely reason (besides co-channel interference) you are having hit or miss reception from Boston is that you have high terrain blocking your signal about ten miles to your east. In case you didn't know, if you click on a TV station's "Transmitter Distance" on your "Results List," you will get a terrain profile showing a very diffracted signal (in blue) from the stations in Boston. Therefore, I wouldn't do anything rash with your setup until the Boston area transmitters are at their final heights and power.
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post #12483 of 12500 Old 11-22-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by protivakid View Post
It looks like WTIC and WCCT are about 20-25 dB below WFXT and WCVB, assuming the prediction is accurate. It should, theoretically, be possible to receive the Boston stations much of the time.

Moving from the aux to the final facility looks like it would (theoretically) only improve your reception by 1 dB.

- Trip

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post #12484 of 12500 Old 11-23-2019, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
It looks like WTIC and WCCT are about 20-25 dB below WFXT and WCVB, assuming the prediction is accurate. It should, theoretically, be possible to receive the Boston stations much of the time.

Moving from the aux to the final facility looks like it would (theoretically) only improve your reception by 1 dB.
- Trip
Trip, I'm wondering, how accurate can a station's predicted signal strength be if the signal is quite diffracted by the time it gets to their location? I know the Longley-Rice signal maps do badly in predicting knife edge reception, so couldn't the Boston TV station's numbers be off for someone in protivakid's situation?
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post #12485 of 12500 Old 11-24-2019, 07:56 AM
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It's possible, but hard to say with any certainty. But the terrain paths for Boston and Hartford are pretty similar in shape (compare the terrain path profiles), so I would anticipate/hope that even if they're off by a lot, they're off by a lot in the same direction.

- Trip
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post #12486 of 12500 Old 11-25-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian in CT View Post
I checked out your report. The likely reason (besides co-channel interference) you are having hit or miss reception from Boston is that you have high terrain blocking your signal about ten miles to your east. In case you didn't know, if you click on a TV station's "Transmitter Distance" on your "Results List," you will get a terrain profile showing a very diffracted signal (in blue) from the stations in Boston. Therefore, I wouldn't do anything rash with your setup until the Boston area transmitters are at their final heights and power.
I didn't know that! Looking now it provides some very interesting data. Yes for now I plan to leave things alone until stations are in their final state, then I'll re-work if I have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
It looks like WTIC and WCCT are about 20-25 dB below WFXT and WCVB, assuming the prediction is accurate. It should, theoretically, be possible to receive the Boston stations much of the time.

Moving from the aux to the final facility looks like it would (theoretically) only improve your reception by 1 dB.

- Trip
Prior August I was receiving CBS, ABC, PBS, & NBC just fine from Boston with few outages during bad weather. It's only been since the summer that I've had so much trouble.
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post #12487 of 12500 Old 11-25-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by protivakid View Post
Prior August I was receiving CBS, ABC, PBS, & NBC just fine from Boston with few outages during bad weather. It's only been since the summer that I've had so much trouble.
You were doing fine (what about Fox?) before phase four of the repack changed the OTA TV landscape for much of the northeastern USA. I figure that if you received Boston then, you should receive Boston again when the tower crews complete their work for the Boston area transmitters. That 1 dB of difference Trip in VA talked about in his earlier post might be the difference between barely reaching the threshold for decoding the Boston signals, and just falling short. If you were getting signal pixilation when it rained back when you could receive them, then those signals were not too strong to begin with.

Someone on this thread might have a timeline of when the Boston TV stations will be back to normal. Hope it is not too much longer for you.
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post #12488 of 12500 Old 11-26-2019, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian in CT View Post
You were doing fine (what about Fox?) before phase four of the repack changed the OTA TV landscape for much of the northeastern USA. I figure that if you received Boston then, you should receive Boston again when the tower crews complete their work for the Boston area transmitters. That 1 dB of difference Trip in VA talked about in his earlier post might be the difference between barely reaching the threshold for decoding the Boston signals, and just falling short. If you were getting signal pixilation when it rained back when you could receive them, then those signals were not too strong to begin with.

Someone on this thread might have a timeline of when the Boston TV stations will be back to normal. Hope it is not too much longer for you.
Thanks, and no I've never been able to get WFXT. I have a VHF only antenna pointed toward Providence to grab WNAC, which oddly enough when I installed a Home Depot LED Lightbulb in the room below the antenna, would completely drop the signal when on. The interference was odd but I switched back to a CFL bulb and no issues.

Looks like the US Coast Guard noticed the same... https://www.passagemaker.com/trawler...f-interference
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post #12489 of 12500 Old 11-26-2019, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by protivakid View Post
Thanks, and no I've never been able to get WFXT. I have a VHF only antenna pointed toward Providence to grab WNAC, which oddly enough when I installed a Home Depot LED Lightbulb in the room below the antenna, would completely drop the signal when on. The interference was odd but I switched back to a CFL bulb and no issues.

Looks like the US Coast Guard noticed the same... https://www.passagemaker.com/trawler...f-interference
Nice link. Fortunately, I hear that there are brands of LED lights that DO NOT interfere with VHF or lower radio/TV signals. Of course, those are probably more expensive.
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post #12490 of 12500 Old 12-02-2019, 07:39 AM
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Until I moved to North Nashua I used to get WMUR nicely via reverse lobe of CM4248 Yagi from home attic in souhegan river valley near merrimack. In Nashua that setup yields zero WMUR, no surprise. With preamp I get all the needham stations adequately.

Yesterday I was thrilled to experience new strange antenna after a sultry Clearstream 5 knocked on my door without providing a notarized Smith-Chart I usually prefer to see up front.

The WMUR results after rescanning and re-re-re-re-re-re-canning after moving CS5 antenna were consistent STRIKE-OUT. ZERO POINT ZERO. Nary a WMUR was found on any of the 10 scans and rescans-after-moving-antenna, such as to reduce the number of walls or doors inbetween it and the WMUR xmitter.
I tried with CS5 pointed variously just off north at 355 degrees.
Pointing CS5 at 175 degrees did not change results significantly with regard to WMUR but did change the # of needham station reported and changed the result for the NH PBS station, WGBXYZABC123ERICTHEHALFABEE, or whatever it is.

Next step will be to try a preamp with the CS5.
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post #12491 of 12500 Old 12-02-2019, 01:21 PM
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I'm in Milford next door. I've never tried to get the NH VHF stations off the back of our CM4228. Have always used a separate UHF antenna pointing to Boston, and a VHF-hi pointing to WENH since it is the weaker of the two NH VHF stations for us.

Surprised you are having so much trouble with WMUR. Playing around I was able to receive it in our basement with a paper clip stuck into the end of a piece of coax. Having said that it just occurred to me it was so long ago I forgot is it was pre or post digital transition.
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post #12492 of 12500 Old 12-02-2019, 03:00 PM
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The blocker to WMUR here appears to be terrain .... I have doubts that an amp will help.

Meanwhile I prefer WCVB and Maria Stefanos but this fact is not helping my spousal approval ratings.
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post #12493 of 12500 Old 12-02-2019, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in CT View Post
You were doing fine (what about Fox?) before phase four of the repack changed the OTA TV landscape for much of the northeastern USA. I figure that if you received Boston then, you should receive Boston again when the tower crews complete their work for the Boston area transmitters. That 1 dB of difference Trip in VA talked about in his earlier post might be the difference between barely reaching the threshold for decoding the Boston signals, and just falling short. If you were getting signal pixilation when it rained back when you could receive them, then those signals were not too strong to begin with.

Someone on this thread might have a timeline of when the Boston TV stations will be back to normal. Hope it is not too much longer for you.
Boston TV will not be back to normal until spring. WBZ filed today an FCC "Tolling" waiver request to effectively extend their construction permit from January until April, with several interesting pieces of info. The Town of Needham, where the CBS tower is located, held up progress by requiring American Tower to arrange for a "Special Permit" to install the new master antenna. That is apparently nearly resolved, but American Tower's crew will not return until the end of January to resume work:

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/da...6ec7ff1a540a4b
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post #12494 of 12500 Old 12-02-2019, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by tveli View Post
Until I moved to North Nashua I used to get WMUR nicely via reverse lobe of CM4248 Yagi from home attic in souhegan river valley near merrimack. In Nashua that setup yields zero WMUR, no surprise. With preamp I get all the needham stations adequately.

Yesterday I was thrilled to experience new strange antenna after a sultry Clearstream 5 knocked on my door without providing a notarized Smith-Chart I usually prefer to see up front.

The WMUR results after rescanning and re-re-re-re-re-re-canning after moving CS5 antenna were consistent STRIKE-OUT. ZERO POINT ZERO. Nary a WMUR was found on any of the 10 scans and rescans-after-moving-antenna, such as to reduce the number of walls or doors inbetween it and the WMUR xmitter.

Next step will be to try a preamp with the CS5.
Before you get a preamp for your Clearstream 5 antenna, you might want to check to see if there are any VHF elements on it. The circular elements are all for UHF, and they have very good range. The clearstreams I've seen with VHF elements only have a few dipoles, and their range is limited.

Have you ever posted search map results from RabbitEars.info? This program is much more accurate than the outdated TV Fool, and it will let you know the signal strength of WMUR (and other TV stations) at your location or if you're blocked from them by terrain. The website overall is great too.
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post #12495 of 12500 Old 12-02-2019, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Channel99 View Post
Boston TV will not be back to normal until spring.
Thanks for the update. I'm having problems receiving several Boston stations, wasn't too worried about the ones RabbitEars show as operating at reduced power. But I assumed this would be quickly resolved. Looks like it is going to take longer then expected to finalize the repack.
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post #12496 of 12500 Old 12-03-2019, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian in CT View Post
Before you get a preamp for your Clearstream 5 antenna, you might want to check to see if there are any VHF elements on it. The circular elements are all for UHF, and they have very good range. The clearstreams I've seen with VHF elements only have a few dipoles, and their range is limited.

Have you ever posted search map results from RabbitEars.info? This program is much more accurate than the outdated TV Fool, and it will let you know the signal strength of WMUR (and other TV stations) at your location or if you're blocked from them by terrain. The website overall is great too.
thanks Brian. My CS5 has zero circular elements. The element looks like the grille portion of a big Hibachi grille.
I'm actually running it "upside down" compared to most photos I see - I've got balun/F-connector on top instead of bottom. (My recollections of antenna theory indicate that upside-down won't matter but I will test that too, within a couple weeks.)

i do check rabbitears and it is very nice indeed! Some day I'll have to depth-first-search it since there are probably lots of goodies lurking. It indicates WMUR ought to be 2nd most powerful station at my location, with good 86.45 field strength. also it reminds me of the 15 degree difference between true north and magnetic north so i will run a test at 340 degrees at some point. and i'll turn the antenna 'right side up' similar to the online. It does not indicate "terrain" but if I look in direction of WMUR xmitter I see plenty of hill - above the antenna height. And there is another hill behind it. Massive trees on both hills.
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post #12497 of 12500 Old 12-03-2019, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by tveli View Post
thanks Brian. My CS5 has zero circular elements. The element looks like the grille portion of a big Hibachi grille.
I'm actually running it "upside down" compared to most photos I see - I've got balun/F-connector on top instead of bottom. (My recollections of antenna theory indicate that upside-down won't matter but I will test that too, within a couple weeks.)
Correct orientation doesn't matter as long as it's vertical config versus being horizontal (side ways)...flipping your antenna won't make a difference, but sometimes angling it up does.

Quote:
It does not indicate "terrain" but if I look in direction of WMUR xmitter I see plenty of hill - above the antenna height. And there is another hill behind it. Massive trees on both hills.
HIlls create a huge problem, I can't get WMUR either here in Epping because of the good size hills at Pawtuckaway State Park and I'm already 300' above sea level where I am...meanwhile I pick up Boston and Portland at 2x the distance from me with no problem...terrain is a tough nugget in New England and it doesn't take much to block a signal...not uncommon to be able to get a signal in 1 part of a town and not the other part.

On a clear day if you can get WMUR occasionally, but it goes in/out and/or has quite a bit of pixelation a pre-amp might help.

Go here and you can get a view of your path to WMUR towers located at 42.98401137, -71.58980644 here https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-p...line-of-sight/
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post #12498 of 12500 Old 12-03-2019, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tveli View Post
Until I moved to North Nashua I used to get WMUR nicely via reverse lobe of CM4248 Yagi from home attic in souhegan river valley near merrimack. In Nashua that setup yields zero WMUR, no surprise. With preamp I get all the needham stations adequately.

Yesterday I was thrilled to experience new strange antenna after a sultry Clearstream 5 knocked on my door without providing a notarized Smith-Chart I usually prefer to see up front.

The WMUR results after rescanning and re-re-re-re-re-re-canning after moving CS5 antenna were consistent STRIKE-OUT. ZERO POINT ZERO. Nary a WMUR was found on any of the 10 scans and rescans-after-moving-antenna, such as to reduce the number of walls or doors inbetween it and the WMUR xmitter.
I tried with CS5 pointed variously just off north at 355 degrees.
Pointing CS5 at 175 degrees did not change results significantly with regard to WMUR but did change the # of needham station reported and changed the result for the NH PBS station, WGBXYZABC123ERICTHEHALFABEE, or whatever it is.

Next step will be to try a preamp with the CS5.
I had difficulty with WMUR also. I'm only 18.4 miles away, but their ERP is pretty low. Also, I'm part way up a large hill and WMUR is on the other side. And there's thick woods between me and the top of the hill. RabbitEars.Info predicted the field strength is 64.94 dBuV/m, which is at the low end of "Fair".

A decade+ ago, I could receive WMUR with a rotator and roof-mounted FM yagi. That was an emergency TV setup for when the cable was out (ice storms, etc.). But it seemed to get worse over time, and when we cut the cord a couple years ago, WMUR was not receivable at all.

So recently, I installed a CS5 at the top of my rooftop mast, and pointed it in the direction of maximum signal strength on channel 9. I got a moderately strong signal which was watchable using my HDHomeRun tuner and no preamp, but when I installed the Clearstream Juice preamp it got stronger and more stable. It's been rock solid for the last couple months and I never have any dropouts.

So I can recommend the CS Juice. The Kitztech KT-200 might be a better choice since you don't have any strong local signals. Also, for me, being on the wrong side of the hill, antenna height made a difference. I swapped positions of the CS5 and CM-4228HD on my rooftop-mounted mast, putting the CS5 about 6 feet higher. That change resulted in a measurable improvement in signal strength on channel 9, and I lost nothing with the Boston UHF stations.
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post #12499 of 12500 Old 12-03-2019, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tveli View Post
i do check rabbitears and it is very nice indeed! Some day I'll have to depth-first-search it since there are probably lots of goodies lurking. It indicates WMUR ought to be 2nd most powerful station at my location, with good 86.45 field strength. also it reminds me of the 15 degree difference between true north and magnetic north so i will run a test at 340 degrees at some point. and i'll turn the antenna 'right side up' similar to the online. It does not indicate "terrain" but if I look in direction of WMUR xmitter I see plenty of hill - above the antenna height. And there is another hill behind it. Massive trees on both hills.
If you click on the mileage figure in the "Transmitter Distance" column, you will get the terrain profile between that station's transmitter and your location. Just make sure you have inputted the correct location and antenna height to begin with. If there is an obstruction in your way, a blue line on the terrain profile will show you that signal's likely path to your location. The more diffracted that line is, the less likely you will be able to receive that signal.

Red MC: In the analog era, VHF signals did well with getting into the "nooks and crannies" of harsh terrain. You might end up with snowy reception, but at least you had a picture. With ATSC 1.0, not so much.
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post #12500 of 12500 Old 12-06-2019, 01:08 PM
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WSBE-TV's new signal on RF2 went on the air today. So far its a pretty strong signal. I'm surprised it went on the air earlier than I expected. WSBE's website said they needed several days of good weather before they could put the signal on the air.

I am also receiving a strong signal from WCRN-LD PSIP 31 on RF30 now showing France 24 programming. I never received the station until today, and also from WWDP/WMFP. I wonder if the weather had something to do with it. But no signal from WYCN on RF36.



For the record, I'm in Rhode Island about 4 miles east of Providence near the border with Massachusetts.
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