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post #12781 of 12878 Old 05-13-2020, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SJBradford View Post
I wouldn’t think the WCRN signal, which is low power, would reach you in NH.
I'm just going by RabbitEars.info predictions, which put it in the Fair category.

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Is anyone else having problems with the WCVB signal? It’s been weak for the last month or so. I get all the other Boston station signals really well and that used to be the same for WCVB. Now it’s a few bars below full strength, and it’s pixelating like crazy.

Multipath? Leaves? It's still a solid 100% for me.

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Originally Posted by Rt3Watcher View Post
We also get WLNE but we do not get WSBE.
WSBE is on RF channel 2 in the low VHF band. Your antenna probably doesn't receive low VHF. That band was basically abandoned during the DTV transition, and is only being used again now due to the repacking. So most antennas sold in the last 10 years or so didn't cover it.
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post #12782 of 12878 Old 05-13-2020, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Rt3Watcher View Post
WJAR : we can get all their sub-channels EXCEPT Antenna. Is that sub-channel broadcasting at a weaker signal?
We also get WLNE but we do not get WSBE.
Antenna TV in Providence is on WNAC 64.4, RF channel 12.
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post #12783 of 12878 Old 05-14-2020, 09:29 AM
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Oops! My apologies. I got the stations mixed up. Thank you for setting me straight. Also, Thank you for the helpful information.
I found this (below) on rabbit ears. I think it explains why we can get some Providence stations but not others.

When we purchased this house many many years ago it came with an antenna on the roof. We are still using this same antenna. It has feeds into the family room and the living room. The family room is closer to the antenna so it actually picks up a few more stations than the living room tv. I assume this has to do with the longer cable run to the living room.

The upstairs tv is on a pair of indoor rabbit ears and does pretty well. It helps that we are on the top of a hill.

Red MC mentioned that newer antennas do not get low VHF. With ours being an older antenna it does get it. We can get WGBH. It looks like WSBE is just too far (and/or weak) away.

According to the charts and topo maps we should be able to get WCRN. The low power is what kills it for us. Unbelievable considering the tower is not that far away.
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post #12784 of 12878 Old 05-14-2020, 02:58 PM
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Yeah, even if you were on Fort Hill, RabbitEars.info predicts you'll have a weak signal. WSBE is a long way away. I thought Lowell might have been closer at first.

For me, it would be impossible even with a large, dedicated channel 2 yagi except during ducted propagation.

But I'm surprised I get WGBH here in Derry, NH. When I did my antenna change, the first new one up was a CM-4228HD UHF/Hi-V antenna and it picked up WGBH. With the antenna pointed a little bit off clockwise from Boston and a pre-amp, I got a somewhat weak but rock solid, watchable signal. I knew it wouldn't last, because next I added a Clearstream 5 Hi-V antenna pointed West to get WMUR. That necessitated a combiner, so the signal from WGBH on the CM-4228HD would be filtered, and the transmitter would be in a null of the Clearstream 5 pattern. To my surprise, I STILL receive WGBH. It's not perfect, most of the time I see a little pixellation here and there, but no drops. Channel 5 must be really free from interference. It is right in the middle between 4-meter amateur and FM radio bands, which might help?

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post #12785 of 12878 Old 05-14-2020, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rt3Watcher View Post
Oops! My apologies. I got the stations mixed up. Thank you for setting me straight. Also, Thank you for the helpful information.
I found this (below) on rabbit ears. I think it explains why we can get some Providence stations but not others.

When we purchased this house many many years ago it came with an antenna on the roof. We are still using this same antenna. It has feeds into the family room and the living room. The family room is closer to the antenna so it actually picks up a few more stations than the living room tv. I assume this has to do with the longer cable run to the living room.

The upstairs tv is on a pair of indoor rabbit ears and does pretty well. It helps that we are on the top of a hill.

Red MC mentioned that newer antennas do not get low VHF. With ours being an older antenna it does get it. We can get WGBH. It looks like WSBE is just too far (and/or weak) away.

According to the charts and topo maps we should be able to get WCRN. The low power is what kills it for us. Unbelievable considering the tower is not that far away.
WSBE has a pending FCC application to increase power about 35%. WLNE is operating at half power due to an error made in their antenna design, and a fix is being planned.
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post #12786 of 12878 Old 05-14-2020, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Rt3Watcher View Post
When we purchased this house many many years ago it came with an antenna on the roof. We are still using this same antenna. It has feeds into the family room and the living room. The family room is closer to the antenna so it actually picks up a few more stations than the living room tv. I assume this has to do with the longer cable run to the living room.
The cable run MIGHT be the reason one TV gets more stations than the other. If cheap coax was put in, then that probably is the reason. But if you're using really good coax (like RG-6), then there could be other reasons for the difference. The cable to the living room might have been damaged somehow. If your televisions are different brands, the TV in the family room could have a better quality tuner. If the living room TV is having trouble locking in WGBH on the VHF-Lo band (RF channel 5), there could be some electronic device near that TV causing interference.

I don't mean to make you start doubting your current setup. I'm just putting other reasons out there for you.
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post #12787 of 12878 Old 05-15-2020, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Channel99 View Post
WSBE has a pending FCC application to increase power about 35%. WLNE is operating at half power due to an error made in their antenna design, and a fix is being planned.
That's good to know. It should be interesting to see if we can actually get WSBE when they increase power. It's ok if we don't. It'll just be good if we do. As for WLNE .. that will explain why it's been irratic getting them.

Thanks for the info.
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post #12788 of 12878 Old 05-15-2020, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian in CT View Post
The cable run MIGHT be the reason one TV gets more stations than the other. If cheap coax was put in, then that probably is the reason. But if you're using really good coax (like RG-6), then there could be other reasons for the difference. The cable to the living room might have been damaged somehow. If your televisions are different brands, the TV in the family room could have a better quality tuner. If the living room TV is having trouble locking in WGBH on the VHF-Lo band (RF channel 5), there could be some electronic device near that TV causing interference.

I don't mean to make you start doubting your current setup. I'm just putting other reasons out there for you.
Good to know. Thank you for the information.

Fortunately all the tv's can get WGBH. An example of the difference is that the family room tv can get WENH (out of NH), but the living room tv does not get it. But overall we are ok with the channels that our tv's can get. We were just hoping to be able to get Antenna-tv, now that it is back in the area.
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post #12789 of 12878 Old 05-15-2020, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post
WCRN-LD showed up in my TiVo EPG today...

31-1 (ID ITV) France24
31-2 (ID FR24) France24
31-3 (ID BCNtv)
31-4 (ID RetroTV) RetroTV
31-5 (ID HEART) Heartland
31-6 (ID WVMAANT) AntennaTV

No signal on any channel. I am in Danville, NH. Should I be expecting a signal to arrive in the future or is WCRN out of reach for me?
31-1 (ID ITV) is now "Intrigue TV", with a web site displaying WCRN 31 and Roku:

http://intrigue.tv/
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post #12790 of 12878 Old 05-16-2020, 11:32 AM
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I did a re-scan today and no new channels ,I guess Ch.31 is just too low powered to be picked up here despite me only being roughly 15 miles from Quincy or Foxboro MA...

I'll have to invest in a "real" antenna if I want to keep watching TV--every day the reception gets more drop outs and pixilation thanks to the leaves on the trees now coming out...

I still get better results on an antenna only 10 feet off the ground in my back yard compared to the one on a 20+ foot mast in my front yard--I guess since the stations broadcast antennas I want to get are either in the west towards Providence or North East in Needham MA,and my front yard faces the south and the house "blocks" the signals from the higher antenna somewhat, may be a possibility..
The ones out of Providence used to come in perfectly,but even some of those are starting to suffer now..

I have read that stations are required to keep transmitting on the "old" digital format for another 5 years,which is good news for those like me still using older digital TV's or digital converters...I was figuring they would force us to throw away more stuff that still works OK ..like an "obsolete" computer..
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post #12791 of 12878 Old 05-16-2020, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by roberthall560 View Post
The ones out of Providence used to come in perfectly,but even some of those are starting to suffer now..
Probably leaves on trees...signals tend to drop a bit in a summer, not just because of leaves (if you receive through trees) but troposphere propagation can also cause problems.
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post #12792 of 12878 Old 05-18-2020, 03:33 PM
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I did a re-scan today and no new channels ,I guess Ch.31 is just too low powered to be picked up here despite me only being roughly 15 miles from Quincy or Foxboro MA...

Wow. That's pretty bad if you are that close and still can't get them.

Is there anyone on the forum that actually does get WCRN?
If so .. how close are you to the tower?
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post #12793 of 12878 Old 05-18-2020, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by roberthall560 View Post
I did a re-scan today and no new channels ,I guess Ch.31 is just too low powered to be picked up here despite me only being roughly 15 miles from Quincy or Foxboro MA...

I'll have to invest in a "real" antenna if I want to keep watching TV--every day the reception gets more drop outs and pixilation thanks to the leaves on the trees now coming out...
WCRN-LD has a highly directional signal to protect WEDH in Hartford, even though it's relatively close to the tower, Raynham is on the bad side of their signal pattern and in the "Orange" range on the propogation map:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour....f&cir=&circen=

So if you want any chance of getting it reliably, you're going to need a better antenna.

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post #12794 of 12878 Old 05-18-2020, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SJBradford View Post
I wouldn’t think the WCRN signal, which is low power, would reach you in NH.

Is anyone else having problems with the WCVB signal? It’s been weak for the last month or so. I get all the other Boston station signals really well and that used to be the same for WCVB. Now it’s a few bars below full strength, and it’s pixelating like crazy.
It's been almost a year now since I've been able to pull in WCVB. They were one of my strongest channels prior the re-pack but since August 2019 I haven't been able to get ABC. Hoping they are still working to improve it but I have a feeling this is my "new ABC-less normal". Thanks REPACK19
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post #12795 of 12878 Old 05-18-2020, 07:38 PM
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but I have a feeling this is my "new ABC-less normal"
Again, this is NOT the new normal, American Tower is still working on the CBS tower. When the work is finished, they will all have larger coverage areas than they did pre-repack, so many viewers will have an easier time getting the stations, especially in areas further away.

Reasons for the delays have been posted in this thread on a regular basis after they've been filed with the FCC by the stations who will be sharing the tower when the work is done. (The township where the Needham towers are didn't grant the permits for the final design of the tower until December, and by that point the tower crew American Tower hired were busy with other stations in a different part of the country, when they returned they were initially diverted to fix the issues at the Cabot Street tower, COVID-19 related work shutdowns across the country for tower crews and equipment deliveries, etc) Heck, WNEU is off the air right now since their temporary antenna needed to be removed when the work resumed, so they are currently broadcasting 60-3 on a subchannel of WBZ. Channel99 frequently passes by the tower and saw them actively working on it as recently as last week:
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There has been activity in the past month or so on the CBS tower. They have removed the old master antenna, in two pieces, and the top of the tower had only staging/rigging in place last week, presumably in preparation for installation of the new master.

This is far from a Boston only issue. Like Philly's CBS, CW and Ion stations have been at reduced power for just as long as the Boston stations because of other delays, one of which was asbestos in the transmitter building that halted construction last fall, while their Fox station is at reduced power because of arcing issues in their mask filter and can't go full power until they get a replacement. The COVID-19 shutdown didn't help either, so they only resumed construction last week.
Over in NYC their Univision station is still at reduced power because of work and building permit issues at the Empire State Building involving the required scaffolding/barriers to prevent people walking on the sidewalk from being killed by any falling debris, while WJLP is still waiting for the Durst organization to get their act together so they can complete their move to the new 1 World Trade Center.
Chicago's ABC, NBC and Fox stations are temporarily transmitting from the Hancock tower while they replace the antennas at the Willis (Sears) tower. And those stations who are temporarily at Hancock really lucked out today since the Willis Tower stations are off air entirely because of massive flooding at the substation. Right now CBS, PBS, Ion, CW and MeTV are off air in Chicago.
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post #12796 of 12878 Old 05-19-2020, 04:33 PM
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Again, this is NOT the new normal, American Tower is still working on the CBS tower. When the work is finished, they will all have larger coverage areas than they did pre-repack, so many viewers will have an easier time getting the stations, especially in areas further away.

Reasons for the delays have been posted in this thread on a regular basis after they've been filed with the FCC by the stations who will be sharing the tower when the work is done. (The township where the Needham towers are didn't grant the permits for the final design of the tower until December, and by that point the tower crew American Tower hired were busy with other stations in a different part of the country, when they returned they were initially diverted to fix the issues at the Cabot Street tower, COVID-19 related work shutdowns across the country for tower crews and equipment deliveries, etc) Heck, WNEU is off the air right now since their temporary antenna needed to be removed when the work resumed, so they are currently broadcasting 60-3 on a subchannel of WBZ. Channel99 frequently passes by the tower and saw them actively working on it as recently as last week:

This is far from a Boston only issue.
Passing the CBS tower this past Sunday, the new master antenna was at the top, leaning slightly to the side, supported by the rigging that had been used to remove the old master. Depending on what work must still be done on the transmission line, and if the transmitter work is complete, they may not be far from testing. Work also remains for the separate WUTF and WNEU antennas, and I believe for 2 FM stations using backup antennas
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post #12797 of 12878 Old 05-21-2020, 07:25 AM
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The time info on WBZ/CBS Boston is running 3 minutes late this morning which could affect DVR recording. I emailed them.
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post #12798 of 12878 Old 05-22-2020, 09:35 AM
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The time info on WBZ/CBS Boston is running 3 minutes late this morning which could affect DVR recording. I emailed them.

It appears the time issue is fixed.
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post #12799 of 12878 Old 05-22-2020, 06:06 PM
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WCRN-LD has a highly directional signal to protect WEDH in Hartford, even though it's relatively close to the tower, Raynham is on the bad side of their signal pattern and in the "Orange" range on the propogation map:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour....f&cir=&circen=

So if you want any chance of getting it reliably, you're going to need a better antenna.
I can't figure out how to get that coverage map of stations on rabbitears. I'm interested in seeing it for WSBE. According to Google Maps, I'm 28.12 miles from the 89 Pine St. Rehoboth tower. I get the other stations at the site. Hopefully when they go to their new increased power I'll get them too. I am an oddball who likes PBS content. (except when they're in "begging season- which sometimes seems to be half the year*)

*Part of me wonders that since the "begging season" content appeals to older white women, why don't they just put that content on 24x7 since that's apparently that is what brings home the bacon.
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post #12800 of 12878 Old 05-22-2020, 06:28 PM
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After you click on a station in the market list, click "Technical Data" and then click the tower icon in the section that appears.

This is WSBE's current signal:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour....f&site=1&map=Y

This is WSBE's pending application to increase their power:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour....e&site=1&map=Y

Even with an antenna capable of VHF-lo, the big issue you have to worry about is ambient noise, so things like cheap LED lights, cheap off-brand poorly shielded power adapters/chargers, and/or things with motors is enough to kill reception.
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post #12801 of 12878 Old 05-26-2020, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by KyL416 View Post

Even with an antenna capable of VHF-lo, the big issue you have to worry about is ambient noise, so things like cheap LED lights, cheap off-brand poorly shielded power adapters/chargers, and/or things with motors is enough to kill reception.
Thanks!

My big issue with VHF-Low is that my VHF antenna is pointed to Needham for RF 5 for WGBH/WGBX HD. Not sure I'll get RF 2 WSBE once they increase power but am interested in learning when they do get their equipment in place.
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post #12802 of 12878 Old 05-26-2020, 04:45 PM
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Atsc 3.0

Does anyone know what ATSC 3.0 plans are for the Boston market?

I funded a Kickstarter that claims to be able to ship an ATSC 3.0 tuner this summer. I did it to promote the tech and didn't really expect anything to happen here for some time. Then I found this: https://www.atsc.org/nextgen-tv/deployments/. It says Boston is to be among the first markets to deploy ATSC 3.0. But there are no details.
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post #12803 of 12878 Old 05-27-2020, 06:51 AM
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I'm not holding my breath. Between the Boston stations having yet to complete the work to get on new full power transmission gear after the August 2019 repack and the pandemic, I suspect we're a 2021 story at the earliest. I have zero information though.

We'll see- I'm interested in ATSC 3 too even though I live within range of the Needham towers to get solid 1.0 signal. Where I live now since 2012 is the first time in my life where I've been able to receive OTA without reception problems- so I am hoping that ATSC 3 improves reception for those living in "fringe areas".
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post #12804 of 12878 Old 05-27-2020, 08:21 AM
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Appears the Boston DMA will be getting a new "NBC LX" subchannel on May 31st. Thanks to someone on the Springfield MA thread for posting about this.

https://www.lx.com/where-to-watch/
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post #12805 of 12878 Old 05-27-2020, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pnkflyd51 View Post
I'm not holding my breath. Between the Boston stations having yet to complete the work to get on new full power transmission gear after the August 2019 repack and the pandemic, I suspect we're a 2021 story at the earliest. I have zero information though.

We'll see- I'm interested in ATSC 3 too even though I live within range of the Needham towers to get solid 1.0 signal. Where I live now since 2012 is the first time in my life where I've been able to receive OTA without reception problems- so I am hoping that ATSC 3 improves reception for those living in "fringe areas".
I'm hopeful that the change from 8VSB in ATSC 1.0 to OFDM in ATSC 3.0 will make a difference for many of us. I live in Central MA and, oddly, receive Providence stations better than Boston stations even though I am 10 miles close to Needham. It's a combination of power output and multi-path interference I can't do anything about. This even though the signal strength pins measurement tools. 8VSB was always known to be a bad decision for multi-path issues and it's a good thing that 3.0 drops it.
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post #12806 of 12878 Old 05-27-2020, 05:01 PM
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Appears the Boston DMA will be getting a new "NBC LX" subchannel on May 31st. Thanks to someone on the Springfield MA thread for posting about this.

https://www.lx.com/where-to-watch/
WNEU is where that is supposed to go. However WNEU has been off air for a couple of months due to the CBS tower work, which has been progressing, but they probably won't be back on by 5/31. (The main WNEU channel, Telemundo, is temporarily being broadcast on a subchannel of WBZ.)
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Originally Posted by pnkflyd51 View Post
Where I live now since 2012 is the first time in my life where I've been able to receive OTA without reception problems- so I am hoping that ATSC 3 improves reception for those living in "fringe areas".
It crossed my mind why I like being able to utilize OTA TV even though I get my locals from a vMVPD service currently (except PBS.)

I grew up about 60 miles south of Indianapolis in the Indy DMA (and got those stations via cable TV.) The Indianapolis 500 was blacked out on the Indy ABC station (reshown that night, but who wants to watch delayed after learning who won?) because they sell tickets to a big chunk of their massive infield that never sell out- and only drunks attend in the infield- it's not like you can see much of anything. The Terre Haute DMA which is basically the 3rd point of a equilateral triangle from Indianapolis and my hometown was able to carry it live. When I was a kid, every year I tried to pick up the Terre Haute ABC station with a rabbit ear antenna- my recollection is that I was able to tune it in with some success (a lot of static) about half the years. Half the years I got nothing. It was a very maddening experience for me.

I left Indiana after college. The stupid blackout as a kid plus the open wheel racing rift left me with zero interest in the race. I don't believe I've watched a minute of the race in 25+ years. Terrible "strategies" for grooming young fans!

Last edited by pnkflyd51; 05-29-2020 at 07:22 AM.
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post #12808 of 12878 Old 05-28-2020, 09:08 AM
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Well,now that the trees leafed out--I'm not having much luck getting WSBK ...many other channels suffering from blank outs and dropped audio too..

Time to get some kind of better antenna--but with no credit card to order one online,finding any during this covid shutdown isn't going to be easy..
I almost sprung for a used Clear Max 4 I saw on FB marketplace nearby for $40 but it was sold before I responded to the ad..I'm not sure even a good antenna will help much in my location either..
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post #12809 of 12878 Old 05-28-2020, 01:51 PM
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Wgbh 2.1 & wgbx 44.1 power upgrades

Received attached email from WGBH today about the power upgrades.
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post #12810 of 12878 Old 05-28-2020, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by hirochi View Post
Received attached email from WGBH today about the power upgrades.
Their STA has been expired for nearly two months. They have no authority to run the extra power right now.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

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